Interesting Amendola CAP number

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    We absolutely need to improve our O line and D line if we are to win a SB. Look at the difference in protection Manning was getting v Brady. Look at how we are unable to force the running game when the interior of our line is overmatched. Look at the strength of both the Seattle and SF D lines and how they influence the game so greatly.

    Recall how we used to win SB... and we had more dominance on both the O and D lines.

    No.. we need to take care of FIRST THINGS FIRST. Make a real upgrade on the O line and the D line. If we can further develop the young WRs and Amendola can get healthy and we resign Julian....

    And yes we need another TE. USing a 3rd stringer cant cut it. I do prefer a very good all purpose TE in case Gronk is not himself or is hurt again. If we can get a FA TE or WR fine too. But not if it prevents improving the backbone of ANY championship team.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    Here's the areas Pats ned to address in priority: #1) Offensive LINE Guard/Center and right Tackle  #2) Outside WR  to stretch the field and not a "C" player  #3) De efensive End pass rushing  freak  #4)  Defensive Tackle  #5) Tight End #  6) Line backer/Safety best player available-this should not be a problem with 6 draft picks and fre agency esp; if they get relief from the killer Hernandez cap #, which in all fairness they should?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    I would be ok with cutting Amendola.  I didn't mind the signing when it happened, but it just didn't work out.  Guy really is made of glass.  He was worth a gamble, IMO, but it just didn't work.  I say cut your losses and move on.  




    I agree.  I also heard some of the local analysts discussing this and believe that the Patriots are considering cutting him.  It wouldn't surprise me if this happens.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know if this guy's numbers are correct. This is what spotrac says:

    2014 3,000,0001,200,000500,0004,700,0006,800,000

    2015 4,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 5,700,000 3,600,000

    2016 5,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 6,700,000 2,400,000

    2017 6,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 7,700,000 1,200,000

    If these are correct, his dead money hit this year (last column) is $6.8 mil and his cap hit $4.7 mil (fourth column). The article said his cap hit if they cut him is $4.8 mil, so something is incorrect. If the dead money hit is $6.8 mil, even if it can be spread out, that's too much. If they wait until next year it drops to $3.6 mil, that's when you make the move. 



    It's all about when they cut him. Pre June 1st it would be $6.8 mil if post June 1st (I forget how much he has due in roster bonus vs guaranteed) then this year they are only on the books for his bonus and guaranteed money ~$3mil if my math is right and then the remainder of the contract in bonuses excluding roster bonuses is due in dead money next year ~3.8mil.

    In total however, adding in dead money if they cut him this year it would mean they effectively paid $10.3mil for 1 year of service. Didn't someone say this was a great contract? Even if they hold on to him next year and he does the same thing then the number is ~$5.5mil/yr for two years. And of course this will be the starting point for Edelmans contract. Boy, this one's hard to swallow what a horrible contract for an average WR. But, just think about that one. The Bronco's paid ~5mil for Welker this year and can release him without any significant cap hit if any this offseason. That means if both get released then essentially we paid double for Amendola for 1 year then we would have paid Welker if we offered him the same contract. Anyone other then Rusty want to  say this was still the right move in hindsight?

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know if this guy's numbers are correct. This is what spotrac says:

    2014 3,000,0001,200,000500,0004,700,0006,800,000

    2015 4,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 5,700,000 3,600,000

    2016 5,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 6,700,000 2,400,000

    2017 6,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 7,700,000 1,200,000

    If these are correct, his dead money hit this year (last column) is $6.8 mil and his cap hit $4.7 mil (fourth column). The article said his cap hit if they cut him is $4.8 mil, so something is incorrect. If the dead money hit is $6.8 mil, even if it can be spread out, that's too much. If they wait until next year it drops to $3.6 mil, that's when you make the move. 



    It's all about when they cut him. Pre June 1st it would be $6.8 mil if post June 1st (I forget how much he has due in roster bonus vs guaranteed) then this year they are only on the books for his bonus and guaranteed money ~$3mil if my math is right and then the remainder of the contract in bonuses excluding roster bonuses is due in dead money next year ~3.8mil.

    In total however, adding in dead money if they cut him this year it would mean they effectively paid $10.3mil for 1 year of service. Didn't someone say this was a great contract? Even if they hold on to him next year and he does the same thing then the number is ~$5.5mil/yr for two years. And of course this will be the starting point for Edelmans contract. Boy, this one's hard to swallow what a horrible contract for an average WR. But, just think about that one. The Bronco's paid ~5mil for Welker this year and can release him without any significant cap hit if any this offseason. That means if both get released then essentially we paid double for Amendola for 1 year then we would have paid Welker if we offered him the same contract. Anyone other then Rusty want to  say this was still the right move in hindsight?



    Pats Eng, you are correct. It is all in the timing of the release, and it appears March 11th is a key date

    I think the Pats need to have an understanding of what the Edelman market is before making any decisions. However, I feel that Edelman will command a contract that the Pats will not want to go to unless Amendola is not on the team.

    I also wish to clarify, I would be perfectly happy with Amendola and Edelman on the team. I simply do not think the Pats lay out the $$$ for both. I am a big fan of Amendolas. I understand he did play injured all year. I feel he could be a better WR than Edelman, but he needs to stay on the field.  

    I also "rank" the Edelman signing behind first signing Talib and the drafting an interior OL and TE with a day 1 or 2 choice.

    1) sign Talib

    2) Draft a TE that can get down field day 1

    3) Draft an OL that can play G and renegotiate Connolly and s hift him to C

    4) Sign Edelman

    5) DRaft a DT

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    Have to quit bringing in WR's and cutting them after one year.  Lloyd was last year.  Time to build with what they have.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know if this guy's numbers are correct. This is what spotrac says:

    2014 3,000,0001,200,000500,0004,700,0006,800,000

    2015 4,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 5,700,000 3,600,000

    2016 5,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 6,700,000 2,400,000

    2017 6,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 7,700,000 1,200,000

    If these are correct, his dead money hit this year (last column) is $6.8 mil and his cap hit $4.7 mil (fourth column). The article said his cap hit if they cut him is $4.8 mil, so something is incorrect. If the dead money hit is $6.8 mil, even if it can be spread out, that's too much. If they wait until next year it drops to $3.6 mil, that's when you make the move. 



    You are correct: Volin is not taking into consideration that $2 million of his 2014 base salary is completely guaranteed.  Volin's numbers are wrong, and there is 0 chance of Amendola being cut this off-season.  There is no way to structure it that won't result in an INCREASE in his cap charge.  Possibly, in TFB's first scenario above, they will actually save $880k against the cap, which in no way would be enough to sign Edleman or be worth the monstrous cap hit in 2015.

    Amendola will be on the roster in 2014.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know if this guy's numbers are correct. This is what spotrac says:

    2014 3,000,0001,200,000500,0004,700,0006,800,000

    2015 4,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 5,700,000 3,600,000

    2016 5,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 6,700,000 2,400,000

    2017 6,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 7,700,000 1,200,000

    If these are correct, his dead money hit this year (last column) is $6.8 mil and his cap hit $4.7 mil (fourth column). The article said his cap hit if they cut him is $4.8 mil, so something is incorrect. If the dead money hit is $6.8 mil, even if it can be spread out, that's too much. If they wait until next year it drops to $3.6 mil, that's when you make the move. 



    You are correct: Volin is not taking into consideration that $2 million of his 2014 base salary is completely guaranteed.  Volin's numbers are wrong, and there is 0 chance of Amendola being cut this off-season.  There is no way to structure it that won't result in an INCREASE in his cap charge.  Possibly, in TFB's first scenario above, they will actually save $880k against the cap, which in no way would be enough to sign Edleman or be worth the monstrous cap hit in 2015.

    Amendola will be on the roster in 2014.



    Matt, I and the Boston Globe beg to differ. Per rotoworld, Amendolas 2014 contract is not guaranteed for $2M of the $3M if he is cut before March 11th;

    Amendola inked a five-year, $28.5 million deal with the Patriots last March. It included $10 million guaranteed. $2 million of Amendola's $3 million base salary for 2014 becomes guaranteed if he's on the Patriots' roster come 4 PM ET on March 11.  Jan 26 - 10:52 AM Source: Boston Globe

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    Apart from the fact that the original article in this thread actually used a Mel Kiper reference (actually had to force my fingers to type that name), I happen to believe that cutting Amendola after one season makes absolutely zero sense.  Salary cap considerations aside, the guy had a productive season.  Yes, I actually typed that.  The kind of season that many expected?  Probably not.  The kind that would warrant what they are paying him?  Open to discussion.  Amendola's numbers first, Welker's second:


    Games played:  12/13

    Receptions:  54/73

    Total yards:  633/778

    YPG:  52.8/59.8

    AYPG:  11.7/10.7

    Of course Welker had a better season.  Why wouldn't he given the array of passing offense weapons that Manning had? 

    Let's see what Amendola does next year and then revisit the matter.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to susan250's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    I would be ok with cutting Amendola.  I didn't mind the signing when it happened, but it just didn't work out.  Guy really is made of glass.  He was worth a gamble, IMO, but it just didn't work.  I say cut your losses and move on.  




    I agree.  I also heard some of the local analysts discussing this and believe that the Patriots are considering cutting him.  It wouldn't surprise me if this happens.  



    It would SHOCK me to the moon and back if this happens.  The idea is to keep building the WR continuity. They were off to a great start this year with it, with Edelman emerging, Thompkins and Dobson's strong rookie campaigns, and this mostly without Gronk in there.  Amendola would be even better without a groin tear, obviously.

    Stay the course.  Re-sign Edelman, maybe add a veteran WR for camp and run with it.

     



    I was optimistic about Amendola's ability to stay heathy when they initially signed him, but after seeing him get hurt in the first game this year, and then never fully recover for the rest of the season, I just have no faith left that he can ever play a fully season.  I was wrong to think that he could somehow stay healthy, when he never really has in his entire NFL career.  I say cut him loose, take your losses, and move on with a player who can stay healthy, stay on the field, and play hard without nursing an injury when he is on the field.  I love Danny's toughness and skills, but let's face it, he's made of glass and probably always will be.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Apart from the fact that the original article in this thread actually used a Mel Kiper reference (actually had to force my fingers to type that name), I happen to believe that cutting Amendola after one season makes absolutely zero sense.  Salary cap considerations aside, the guy had a productive season.  Yes, I actually typed that.  The kind of season that many expected?  Probably not.  The kind that would warrant what they are paying him?  Open to discussion.  Amendola's numbers first, Welker's second:


    Games played:  12/13

    Receptions:  54/73

    Total yards:  633/778

    YPG:  52.8/59.8

    AYPG:  11.7/10.7

    Of course Welker had a better season.  Why wouldn't he given the array of passing offense weapons that Manning had? 

    Let's see what Amendola does next year and then revisit the matter.



    I am not getting the reference to Wes, and what it means to the discussion?

    When you say, "lets see what Amendola does next season and revisit the matter"...are you thinking that Edelman is signed or not? The gist of the discussion is that the Pats cannot sign Edelman with Amendolas contract on the books.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    I don't know if this guy's numbers are correct. This is what spotrac says:

    2014 3,000,0001,200,000500,0004,700,0006,800,000

    2015 4,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 5,700,000 3,600,000

    2016 5,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 6,700,000 2,400,000

    2017 6,000,000 1,200,000 500,000 7,700,000 1,200,000

    If these are correct, his dead money hit this year (last column) is $6.8 mil and his cap hit $4.7 mil (fourth column). The article said his cap hit if they cut him is $4.8 mil, so something is incorrect. If the dead money hit is $6.8 mil, even if it can be spread out, that's too much. If they wait until next year it drops to $3.6 mil, that's when you make the move. 



    You are correct: Volin is not taking into consideration that $2 million of his 2014 base salary is completely guaranteed.  Volin's numbers are wrong, and there is 0 chance of Amendola being cut this off-season.  There is no way to structure it that won't result in an INCREASE in his cap charge.  Possibly, in TFB's first scenario above, they will actually save $880k against the cap, which in no way would be enough to sign Edleman or be worth the monstrous cap hit in 2015.

    Amendola will be on the roster in 2014.



    Matt, I and the Boston Globe beg to differ. Per rotoworld, Amendolas 2014 contract is not guaranteed for $2M of the $3M if he is cut before March 11th;

    Amendola inked a five-year, $28.5 million deal with the Patriots last March. It included $10 million guaranteed. $2 million of Amendola's $3 million base salary for 2014 becomes guaranteed if he's on the Patriots' roster come 4 PM ET on March 11.  Jan 26 - 10:52 AM Source: Boston Globe



    That money was reported as 100% guaranteed at the time of signing; that "10 million guaranteed" line above?  That includes the 2 million we're talking about (2 million 2013 base, 6 million signing bonus, 2 million of the 2014 base).

    I repeat, Volin has the numbers wrong.  This is a mistake on Volin's part.  "Rotoworld" and the "Boston Globe" are both sourcing Volin.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    That's not a good "gist, though. NE can sign Edelman to an Amendola kind of contract and Edelman won't be as good in a new system, likely with an inferior QB.

    Lastly, Amendola's contract is not as bad as being painted here.



    I don't think he's even going to command Amendola numbers in a contract (5-6 million).  I see 3.5-4 million tops for him; 3 years/11 million will get it done, imo.

    He may be a 100-catch guy, but he's a 100-catch guy out of the slot in a pass-first offense with no other reliable targets and a HOF QB.  He's a very good punt returner, but he wasn't in the top 10 in return average nor did he break one for a TD this past season.  He played all 16 games in 2013, but it's the first year he managed to.

    He might get some interest from other teams, but he's hardly a marquee guy; he's viewed as a #3/borderline #2 WR with some special teams utility.  That's not the kind of player who generates a bidding war.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number


    Another JMcd let down. he politickd to get him here, and the dude didn't deliver.

    probably can't trade him since teams will see his injury proneness as a detractor.

    maybe okland or cleveland might take him

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to susan250's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

    I would be ok with cutting Amendola.  I didn't mind the signing when it happened, but it just didn't work out.  Guy really is made of glass.  He was worth a gamble, IMO, but it just didn't work.  I say cut your losses and move on.  




    I agree.  I also heard some of the local analysts discussing this and believe that the Patriots are considering cutting him.  It wouldn't surprise me if this happens.  



    It would SHOCK me to the moon and back if this happens.  The idea is to keep building the WR continuity. They were off to a great start this year with it, with Edelman emerging, Thompkins and Dobson's strong rookie campaigns, and this mostly without Gronk in there.  Amendola would be even better without a groin tear, obviously.

    Stay the course.  Re-sign Edelman, maybe add a veteran WR for camp and run with it.

     



    I was optimistic about Amendola's ability to stay heathy when they initially signed him, but after seeing him get hurt in the first game this year, and then never fully recover for the rest of the season, I just have no faith left that he can ever play a fully season.  I was wrong to think that he could somehow stay healthy, when he never really has in his entire NFL career.  I say cut him loose, take your losses, and move on with a player who can stay healthy, stay on the field, and play hard without nursing an injury when he is on the field.  I love Danny's toughness and skills, but let's face it, he's made of glass and probably always will be.



    He's not made of glass at all. We heard the same thing about Edelman. Each plays hard and that's their style of play. 

    Cutting him would be moronic with the cap hit, which means he's not going anywhere.



    I agree that we probably will not cut him.  Too much of a cap hit for sure.  I want to agree with you about his ability to stay healthy, but I just can't.  This guy is hurt every single year and misses games every year.  Until he can prove otherwise, I have no choice but to label him injury prone.  Hope he can prove me wrong next season, but I really have my doubts.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to MattC05's comment:


    I don't think he's even going to command Amendola numbers in a contract (5-6 million).  I see 3.5-4 million tops for him; 3 years/11 million will get it done, imo.

    He may be a 100-catch guy, but he's a 100-catch guy out of the slot in a pass-first offense with no other reliable targets and a HOF QB.  He's a very good punt returner, but he wasn't in the top 10 in return average nor did he break one for a TD this past season.  He played all 16 games in 2013, but it's the first year he managed to.

    He might get some interest from other teams, but he's hardly a marquee guy; he's viewed as a #3/borderline #2 WR with some special teams utility.  That's not the kind of player who generates a bidding war.



    Solid post!  I agree with everything you wrote here.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to mellymel1's comment:


    Amendola needs to get healthy...he's not going anywhere...they'll end up signing Edleman because he's not getting what Welker signed for last season...it was his first year catching 100 passes and playing without a serious injury....they'll both be back with the Pats...



    Agree

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Interesting Amendola CAP number

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Apart from the fact that the original article in this thread actually used a Mel Kiper reference (actually had to force my fingers to type that name), I happen to believe that cutting Amendola after one season makes absolutely zero sense.  Salary cap considerations aside, the guy had a productive season.  Yes, I actually typed that.  The kind of season that many expected?  Probably not.  The kind that would warrant what they are paying him?  Open to discussion.  Amendola's numbers first, Welker's second:


    Games played:  12/13

    Receptions:  54/73

    Total yards:  633/778

    YPG:  52.8/59.8

    AYPG:  11.7/10.7

    Of course Welker had a better season.  Why wouldn't he given the array of passing offense weapons that Manning had? 

    Let's see what Amendola does next year and then revisit the matter.



    I am not getting the reference to Wes, and what it means to the discussion?

    When you say, "lets see what Amendola does next season and revisit the matter"...are you thinking that Edelman is signed or not? The gist of the discussion is that the Pats cannot sign Edelman with Amendolas contract on the books.



    In re-reading the thread I see where I went off topic.  Point taken.

    If the cap situation is so severe they can't afford both Edelman and Amendola then that's pretty tough.  No question Edeleman had a great year but it's one year of staying healthy and productive.  I don't see the Pats laying out Amendola's $$ for him although I'd like to see him stay.  Amendola isn't going anywhere - yet.

     
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