1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/15/2012 8:55 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    To me, the difference is that when Montana had less dominant teams he failed to even reach the SB.  Not to diminish Montana, but if some of his other playoff teams had reached the SB his record would show more blemishes.
    Posted by nyjoseph


    Good point.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/15/2012 9:57 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : TC my point is there is no logical way to debate or prove this. Brady did not have Roger Craig and we cannot replay the SB's he lost with a "runnning game" so I don't know how you can prove that beyond speculation. If Eli had these three receivers instead of the ones in SB 42 do they score more than 17? I could say yes based on production but how can I prove it? Hey imagine what Dan Marino could have done witha great RB? It might have been frightening that offense but we'll never know.
    Posted by JintsFan


    I doubt we will prove much of anything as this is a discussion board.

    BUT..in your football fan opinion, do you think that Tom Brady would have an easier time scoring points with a rb of Roger Craigs caliber or a runningback of BJGE's caliber?

    Soooo again, one thing that Montana had that Brady didn't is a run game that consisted of h.o.f rb Roger craig and one of the better FB's in NFL history The RATHMAN

    I once heard a smart NFL coach say," The run opens up the pass"
     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joe16. Show Joe16's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 1:37 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    You know what Montana had that Brady didn't? Roger Craig. Give Brady a true running game and he would be 5-0 in Super Bowls.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    LOL Roger Craig had 2 1,000 yd seasons, one of which was barely over 1,000 yds.  Corry Dillion had at least one monster season with the Pats.  Try again.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. No one will ever be better than Montana, period.  You can argue "as good", but not "better".  You cannot do better than 11 tds 0 ints and a 4-0 record.  He was as close to perfect as any QB could or ever will be in the big game.

    You guys always play this BS card about surrounding talent, as if Troy Brown were not better than the WRs Montana threw to for his first 2 SBs (Solomon, Neimiah, Clark, i.e, no names).  Or Corry Dillion and Kevin Faulk were not complimentary to Roger Craig.

    If you look up the statistics, Craig, Russ Francis, Dwignt Clark etc were not even pro-bowl level players for good portions of their careers.  They're remembered as "great" because they played alongside the best QB in the history of the game, who made them great - especially in big games.

    Tom Brady is a great QB.  No doubt.  I find it interesting that people are shooting Elway down for his 2-3 record in the SB yet elevating Brady above Montana's 4-0 SB record.
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joe16. Show Joe16's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 1:55 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : I doubt we will prove much of anything as this is a discussion board. BUT..in your football fan opinion, do you think that Tom Brady would have an easier time scoring points with a rb of Roger Craigs caliber or a runningback of BJGE's caliber? Soooo again, one thing that Montana had that Brady didn't is a run game that consisted of h.o.f rb Roger craig and one of the better FB's in NFL history The RATHMAN I once heard a smart NFL coach say," The run opens up the pass"
    Posted by TrueChamp


    HOF? LOL, when did that happen??

    I'm helping correct your innacuracies by posting Roger Craig's stats alongside Antowain Smith and Cory Dillion.  1,000 yd seasons are bolded.  Of course I didn't even include BJE.  If you include that, I believe Brady has had just as many 1,000 yd rushers behind him as Montana.

    Coluimns in order are games, rushes, yards.......You're welcome.

    Cory Dillion

    2006New England Patriots 1613 1998124.15013151479.852022
     
    2005New England Patriots 1210 2097333.52912221818.225111
     
    2004New England Patriots 1514 3451,6354.74412151036.920154

    Antowain Smith

    2002New England Patriots 1615 2529823.942T6312437.835221
     
    2001New England Patriots 1615       1,154

    Roger Craig

    1990San Francisco 49ers 11-- 1414393.1261252018.0310----
     
    1989San Francisco 49ers 16-- 2711,0543.9276494739.7441----
     
    1988San Francisco 49ers 16-- 3101,5024.846T9765347.0221----
     
    1987San Francisco 49ers 14-- 2158153.8253664927.535T1----
     
    1986San Francisco 49ers 16-- 2048304.1257816247.7480----
     
    1985San Francisco 49ers 16-- 2141,0504.962T9921,01611.0736----
     
    1984San Francisco 49ers 16-- 1556494.2287716759.564T3----
     
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 6:53 AM EST

    Joe16 - boy, do you have an issue with anyone putting another QB on the level of Montana.  Admit it, Joe had a much better overall team around him and HoF players in numerous positions.  As many say there are the Brady "ball washers" on this site, you are the Montana "ball washer" for 49ers fans!
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 7:57 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : LOL Roger Craig had 2 1,000 yd seasons, one of which was barely over 1,000 yds.  Corry Dillion had at least one monster season with the Pats.  Try again . I've said it before and I'll say it again. No one will ever be better than Montana, period.  You can argue "as good", but not "better".  You cannot do better than 11 tds 0 ints and a 4-0 record.  He was as close to perfect as any QB could or ever will be in the big game. You guys always play this BS card about surrounding talent, as if Troy Brown were not better than the WRs Montana threw to for his first 2 SBs (Solomon, Neimiah, Clark, i.e, no names).  Or Corry Dillion and Kevin Faulk were not complimentary to Roger Craig. If you look up the statistics, Craig, Russ Francis, Dwignt Clark etc were not even pro-bowl level players for good portions of their careers.  They're remembered as "great" because they played alongside the best QB in the history of the game, who made them great - especially in big games. Tom Brady is a great QB.  No doubt.  I find it interesting that people are shooting Elway down for his 2-3 record in the SB yet elevating Brady above Montana's 4-0 SB record.
    Posted by Joe16


    Joe,

    You're opinion has been disqualified.  There is a reason Howard Cosell always referred to Russ Francis as "All-World".  He was a complete TE.  He had great hands and was a superb blocker.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joe16. Show Joe16's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 9:07 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    Joe16 - boy, do you have an issue with anyone putting another QB on the level of Montana.  Admit it, Joe had a much better overall team around him and HoF players in numerous positions.  As many say there are the Brady "ball washers" on this site, you are the Montana "ball washer" for 49ers fans!
    Posted by agcsbill


    No, I don't.  "Better" is a different story all-together.  And you obviously have no clue who Montana played alongside.  I actually named the starters for the first 2 superbowls.  Wendell Tyler, Bill Ring, Roger Craig, Mike Schuman, Rus Francis, Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, Renaldo Nehimiah.  Where are the HOFers?

    So you are telling me that Wes Welker, who caught over 120 balls this year and near the top in yards, is not talented??  Or Gronkowski, who set the record for TD receptions, is not talented? Or Troy Brown?  Or Dillion's 1,600+ yds didn't help in 2004? And Bill Belicheck, who could have won the 2000 SB with JR Redmond playing QB for that game, didn't have a huge hand in Brady's success?

    It's a team game and it always has been.  I'm sorry, but when I look at What Brady did in the SB and compare it to Montana, there is no comparison.  Brady had the best offense of all time in 2007 and couldn't get it done, so don't tell me about what he "didn't have".  He's played 5 SBs and has 3 less TDs than Montana threw in 4 SBs and countless more ints.

    Until someone actually is better than Montana, it's a pointless debate. 

    And by the way, Montana beat the Giants twice in the playoffs to get to two of his SBs, so as usual, another "Brady is better than Montana" thread is based on yet another innacurate premise.......just like the "Montana had a run game" premise that I corrected for you.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 9:30 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : different era's, different offensive systems, different surrounding casts both all-timers
    Posted by JintsFan

    True on all of the above.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 11:27 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : HOF? LOL, when did that happen?? I'm helping correct your innacuracies by posting Roger Craig's stats alongside Antowain Smith and Cory Dillion.  1,000 yd seasons are bolded.  Of course I didn't even include BJE.  If you include that, I believe Brady has had just as many 1,000 yd rushers behind him as Montana. Coluimns in order are games, rushes, yards.......You're welcome. Cory Dillion 2006 New England Patriots 16 13 199 812 4.1 50 13 15 147 9.8 52 0 2 2   2005 New England Patriots 12 10 209 733 3.5 29 12 22 181 8.2 25 1 1 1   2004 New England Patriots 15 14 345 1,635 4.7 44 12 15 103 6.9 20 1 5 4 Antowain Smith 2002 New England Patriots 16 15 252 982 3.9 42T 6 31 243 7.8 35 2 2 1   2001 New England Patriots 16 15        1,154 Roger Craig 1990 San Francisco 49ers 11 -- 141 439 3.1 26 1 25 201 8.0 31 0 -- --   1989 San Francisco 49ers 16 -- 271 1,054 3.9 27 6 49 473 9.7 44 1 -- --   1988 San Francisco 49ers 16 -- 310 1,502 4.8 46T 9 76 534 7.0 22 1 -- --   1987 San Francisco 49ers 14 -- 215 815 3.8 25 3 66 492 7.5 35T 1 -- --   1986 San Francisco 49ers 16 -- 204 830 4.1 25 7 81 624 7.7 48 0 -- --   1985 San Francisco 49ers 16 -- 214 1,050 4.9 62T 9 92 1,016 11.0 73 6 -- --   1984 San Francisco 49ers 16 -- 155 649 4.2 28 7 71 675 9.5 64T 3 -- --  
    Posted by Joe16


    Roger Craig was the 1st rb in NFL history to have 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in the same season big guy. That was also back when 1000 yards rushing was a premiere stat for a rb.

    If your argument is attempting to tear down Roger Craig and build up the 1 good year we had from Corey Dillion you have already lost this debate.

    8 yrs   SFO     121 116 1686 7064 50 71 4.2 58.4 13.9 508 4442 8.7 16 73 4.2 36.7 11506 66 37 100

    Craig could only rail off 11,500 yards in 8 seasons with Montana. I guess your right, he wasn't that good. lmao.

    In 8 years with SF Craig averaged just under 900 rushing yards per season( a lot back then) and OVER 60 receptions per season. Oh yeah he only scored 73 tds in that time and his last year he was injured and played so in only 11 games.

    Perhaps he would have scored more tds if he didn't have the greatest wr in NFL history as the 1st option over him???

    I hate it when people have a clear agenda. Montana was great, Brady is the great.

    Thanks for participating.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 2:49 PM EST

    Bottom line Joe 4-0 in SB's so far TB12 3-2. Joe never had a bad SB gm, 127.8 QB rating, no int's. Remember Joe got traded to make room for Young or he'd have 5 rings. 

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 3:01 PM EST

    brady' career isnt over yet...as of now he may not be the best ever, but one more ring and it would be hard to argue against him being the best....
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 3:07 PM EST

    So far I would put Montana ahead of Brady. Just my opinion though. He was 4-0 in super bowls and never threw an interception in those games. He didn't throw nearly as many passes, the 49ers used a more balanced attack. That will help any quarterback and teams win super bowls. 

    Brady is one of the greatest QBs ever and has a few more years to get another ring or two and maybe move ahead of Montana. 
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 4:36 PM EST

    I do tend to agree that if TB wins another SB he will have to be considered the greatest of all time. His 06 season also very impressive. He led the Pats to a 12-4 record and he truly had no one to throw to, he was the whole offense. It's to bad Reche couldn't hold onto that pass in the endzone  
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 5:39 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : No, I don't.  "Better" is a different story all-together....... Until someone actually is better than Montana, it's a pointless debate.    ...Posted by Joe16

    Any debate about "best QB" will be a never ending one.  There will never be a consensus.  Many pick Montana, others P Manning, others Marino, others Brady and on and on.  You do forget one thing...  Brady led the Pats into the lead or into a winning position in ALL 5 SBs he started.  The D lost two of those leads.  Montana had one comeback game to his credit and didn't sweat out the other three.  Most agree he had a "better" team around him that Brady most years.  
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joe16. Show Joe16's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 9:19 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : Roger Craig was the 1st rb in NFL history to have 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving in the same season big guy. That was also back when 1000 yards rushing was a premiere stat for a rb. If your argument is attempting to tear down Roger Craig and build up the 1 good year we had from Corey Dillion you have already lost this debate. 8 yrs   SFO     121 116 1686 7064 50 71 4.2 58.4 13.9 508 4442 8.7 16 73 4.2 36.7 11506 66 37 100 Craig could only rail off 11,500 yards in 8 seasons with Montana. I guess your right, he wasn't that good. lmao. In 8 years with SF Craig averaged just under 900 rushing yards per season( a lot back then) and OVER 60 receptions per season. Oh yeah he only scored 73 tds in that time and his last year he was injured and played so in only 11 games. Perhaps he would have scored more tds if he didn't have the greatest wr in NFL history as the 1st option over him??? I hate it when people have a clear agenda. Montana was great, Brady is the great. Thanks for participating.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I don't think you even caught the irony of your own quote.  I don't have a clear agenda.  Why would I need one?  It's the undeniable consensus that Montana is the best player ever at his position.  The only place this is really debated is in your geographical area, for obvious reasons.  And you guys do it and the end of nearly ever season.

    I watched Montana his entire career.  He was the offense in his first 2 sbs.  The entire offense ran through him like a point gaurd.  He made all the decisions and had no better receivers than David Patten and Troy Brown and no better RB than Antowain Smith or Cory Dillion.  Those are facts. 

    Later on in his career he had Rice - for the better part of 4 seasons, and he won sbs.  Brady had Moss for the better part of two, and didn't win.  Wes Welker is putting up numbers unheard of from a slot receiver since 2007......yet Brady has lost 2 sbs since then.  Those are facts.

    You want to compare eras?  Okay, let's do that.  Who has Brady gone through to win?  The Colts? The Ravens? The Steelers?  Those teams aren't exaclty the 86' Giants with LT, or the Washington Redskin 83' Hogs, or the 85' Bears.  Brady has faced average competition, while Montana faced all-time great teams.  Teams people still talk about. 

    Any way you slice it my "agenda" is actually popular opinion.  When you go against the grain, you have the agenda.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 9:23 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : I don't think you even caught the irony of your own quote.  I don't have a clear agenda.  Why would I need one?  It's the undeniable consensus that Montana is the best player ever at his position.  The only place this is really debated is in your geographical area, for obvious reasons.  And you guys do it and the end of nearly ever season. I watched Montana his entire career.  He was the offense in his first 2 sbs.  The entire offense ran through him like a point gaurd.  He made all the decisions and had no better receivers than David Patten and Troy Brown and no better RB than Antowain Smith or Cory Dillion.  Those are facts.  Later on in his career he had Rice - for the better part of 4 seasons, and he won sbs.  Brady had Moss for the better part of two, and didn't win.  Wes Welker is putting up numbers unheard of from a slot receiver since 2007......yet Brady has lost 2 sbs since then.  Those are facts. You want to compare eras?  Okay, let's do that.  Who has Brady gone through to win?  The Colts? The Ravens? The Steelers?  Those teams aren't exaclty the 86' Giants with LT, or the Washington Redskin 83' Hogs, or the 85' Bears.  Brady has faced average competition, while Montana faced all-time great teams.  Teams people still talk about.   Any way you slice it my "agenda" is actually popular opinion.  When you go against the grain, you have the agenda.
    Posted by Joe16

    so you made an acc on here just to argue that your lover joe montana was the best? congrats, as of right now he is the best to play the game, but how abou waiting until tom brady's career is over before you write him off....he has gone to the super bowl in half of the seasons he has played, that is no small feat

     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joe16. Show Joe16's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/16/2012 9:25 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : Any debate about "best QB" will be a never ending one.  There will never be a consensus.  Many pick Montana, others P Manning, others Marino, others Brady and on and on.  You do forget one thing...  Brady led the Pats into the lead or into a winning position in ALL 5 SBs he started.  The D lost two of those leads.  Montana had one comeback game to his credit and didn't sweat out the other three.  Most agree he had a "better" team around him that Brady most years.  
    Posted by agcsbill


    Dude, it's llike the people that say Kobe is better than Jordan. Jordan never lost in the Finals and was just money.  Kobe will never be better. It's just the way it is.

    You ask 10 random people who they want to win one game - Kobe or Jordan.  8 out of 10 will pick Jordan.

    You ask 8 out of 10 people which QB you want to win 1 game - Montana or Brady.  8 out of 10 are taking Montana.

    Fair or not all people remember is Joe slicing people up in the SB.  Now people are remembering Brady losing the last 2 SBs and missing open guys or throwing picks when it mattered. 

    I will always be that way.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/17/2012 3:07 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : Dude, it's llike the people that say Kobe is better than Jordan. Jordan never lost in the Finals and was just money.  Kobe will never be better. It's just the way it is. You ask 10 random people who they want to win one game - Kobe or Jordan.  8 out of 10 will pick Jordan. You ask 8 out of 10 people which QB you want to win 1 game - Montana or Brady.  8 out of 10 are taking Montana. Fair or not all people remember is Joe slicing people up in the SB.  Now people are remembering Brady losing the last 2 SBs and missing open guys or throwing picks when it mattered.  I will always be that way.
    Posted by Joe16

    In no way is it like comparing Kobe to Jordan!  Football is not basketball, football is the ultimate team sport, Jordan didn't need blockers or a WR to get 2 points.  Brady can only score if he has protection and guys that don't drop the ball.  Jordan and Kobe could play both defense and offense, and take the game into their own hands if the rest of the team was playing poorly.  Brady led his team to the lead late in the 4th quarter in both Superbowls, but he had no control over his defense that let the Giants come back and take the lead.

    You can easily compare Jordan and Kobe because of the nature of the sport, but in football where your surrounding cast is much more important you cannot.  If you could then Trent Dilfer would be better than Dan Marino, as Trent has a Superbowl ring and Marnino doesn't

     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/17/2012 5:24 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. :  You want to compare eras?  Okay, let's do that.  Who has Brady gone through to win?  The Colts? The Ravens? The Steelers?  Those teams aren't exaclty the 86' Giants with LT, or the Washington Redskin 83' Hogs, or the 85' Bears.  Brady has faced average competition, while Montana faced all-time great teams.  Teams people still talk about.   Any way you slice it my "agenda" is actually popular opinion.  When you go against the grain, you have the agenda.
    Posted by Joe16

    So, Joe16...  we have to blame the "parity" era for what Brady has accomplished?  Remember, teams back in Montana's days could stay "stacked" for years and those few good teams hung around quite a while.  Hense the 70's Steelers, 80's 49ers, 90's Cowboys dynasties.  Everyone speaks to this fact quite a bit.  Back then, the phrase any given Sunday was not as true as it is today.  Most also give credit to the Pats for maintaining such a consistently winning team in this parity era.   Lastly, you may claim not to have an agenda, but, it is obvious, just like the Pats' fans here do for the Pats and Brady today, you are pulling hard for your beloved 80's 49ers and Montana. Your agenda is to keep your 49ers and Montana above the rest and fight off any comparisons hard!
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.

    posted at 2/17/2012 5:26 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana.:
    In Response to Re: Interesting article comparing Brady to Montana. : Dude, it's llike the people that say Kobe is better than Jordan. Jordan never lost in the Finals and was just money.  Kobe will never be better. It's just the way it is. You ask 10 random people who they want to win one game - Kobe or Jordan.  8 out of 10 will pick Jordan. You ask 8 out of 10 people which QB you want to win 1 game - Montana or Brady.  8 out of 10 are taking Montana. Fair or not all people remember is Joe slicing people up in the SB.  Now people are remembering Brady losing the last 2 SBs and missing open guys or throwing picks when it mattered.  I will always be that way.
    Posted by Joe16

    Really?  Haven't heard that one in a while!!