Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Watch the game. You'll see. "

     

    Watched 2nd half yesterday.  Every mistake obviously is magnified because of result... but the 2 biggest ones were play calls. The safety and 4th qtr pick.  Another fault of obie that gets glossed over is his disregard for Brady as a player.  He uses and abuses the QB with no sense of how the game can punish the position relating to the sequence of plays....

    So dropping Brady into the end zone on 1st play was ascinine.  Do you think jints don't know this tendency?  Do you think Brady doesn't know they know?  How does this obreinstein move play out...?  From the snap Brady is uncomfortable, the play is designed to go deep but gints are sitting on that...  Brady again is forced into trying to execute stupid play call except with this added conundrum... QB performance is depleted by perceived pressure... AN EXPERIENCED OC doesn't put a QB in that position on the FIRST PLAY OF THE fn SB... ! 

     This is so obvious I had to use a few caps... hope you got it... Just blame the coaches once...  See if you can do it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why would that be their "tendency"? New England actually ran the ball in that same situation for 18 yards against the Giants in the first game, first play. Same formation. 

    Then ran a play action fake on that play the second time around.

    Isn't that the "mantra" here ... play action works when you run it?

    They were being unpredictable. They were using an established precedent to "trick" the Giants.

    The Giants just owned them. Four defensive lineman (not a blitz as if they were expecting a pass) beat 7 blockers, because one defensive lineman blew his assignment and two more didn't pick it up. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just blame the coaches once...  See if you can do it.

    [/QUOTE]


    They could have run more no-huddle. They ran only 9 plays of no huddle, and they came on the two TD scoring drives. 

    After the game Perry Fewell stated himself that New York had "no answer" to the no huddle, and didn't understand why New England got away from it in the second half. 

    My guess is that BB and O'Brien wanted to slow the game down in the second. It failed. That team last season couldn't run in the clutch, and couldn't run a slow offense. Their running backs weren't good enough, and it was evident all season, including the Superbowl which had two BJGE stuffed runs in the second half, and one Woodhead stuffed run.

    This is independent of "run-pass" mix, as you can run or pass from no huddle, though in practice Woodhead is usually the no huddle runner -- which again everyone hates, complains about when it doesn't work, and clams up when it does. 

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just blame the coaches once...  See if you can do it.

    [/QUOTE]

    They could have run more no-huddle. They ran only 9 plays of no huddle, and they came on the two TD scoring drives. 

    After the game Perry Fewell stated himself that New York had "no answer" to the no huddle, and didn't understand why New England got away from it in the second half. 

    My guess is that BB and O'Brien wanted to slow the game down in the second. It failed. That team last season couldn't run in the clutch, and couldn't run a slow offense. Their running backs weren't good enough, and it was evident all season, including the Superbowl which had two BJGE stuffed runs in the second half, and one Woodhead stuffed run.

    This is independent of "run-pass" mix, as you can run or pass from no huddle, though in practice Woodhead is usually the no huddle runner -- which again everyone hates, complains about when it doesn't work, and clams up when it does. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Z..  thought the very same thing in BOTH SBs the Pats lost to the Giants, especially last year.  Why the Pats went away from the successful offensive play calling that occurred on their scoring drives is a mystery.  IMHO, until the Giants SHOW they can stop the no huddle, why go away from it?  It is almost like the Pats braintrust tried to out think itself by mixing things up.  Or, it did not trust the defense to hold the Giants and wanted the offense to eat up clock and not the Giants?  Go figure.... either way, both games are in the history books!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Watch the game. You'll see. "

     

    Watched 2nd half yesterday.  Every mistake obviously is magnified because of result... but the 2 biggest ones were play calls. The safety and 4th qtr pick.  Another fault of obie that gets glossed over is his disregard for Brady as a player.  He uses and abuses the QB with no sense of how the game can punish the position relating to the sequence of plays....

    So dropping Brady into the end zone on 1st play was ascinine.  Do you think jints don't know this tendency?  Do you think Brady doesn't know they know?  How does this obreinstein move play out...?  From the snap Brady is uncomfortable, the play is designed to go deep but gints are sitting on that...  Brady again is forced into trying to execute stupid play call except with this added conundrum... QB performance is depleted by perceived pressure... AN EXPERIENCED OC doesn't put a QB in that position on the FIRST PLAY OF THE fn SB... ! 

     This is so obvious I had to use a few caps... hope you got it... Just blame the coaches once...  See if you can do it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why would that be their "tendency"? New England actually ran the ball in that same situation for 18 yards against the Giants in the first game, first play. Same formation. 

    Then ran a play action fake on that play the second time around.

    Isn't that the "mantra" here ... play action works when you run it?

    They were being unpredictable. They were using an established precedent to "trick" the Giants.

    The Giants just owned them. Four defensive lineman (not a blitz as if they were expecting a pass) beat 7 blockers, because one defensive lineman blew his assignment and two more didn't pick it up. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't have the stats but I would venture a wager that Brady has passed from his end zone more than any QB in the league.  You don't think Coughlin has this book on him ( and obie)...?  A tendency means they've prepared for it and were not surprised. this also means the play is low percentage, aka recipe for disaster.  Obie didn't grasp this. He couldn't. He's a greenhorn.

    could you comment on his big game experience, and/or his stellar credentials he brought to this team...?  He's basically a nobody who rode brady and bbs bus for a couple years... and if you're buying proroids argument that bb signs off on every play, then that makes him bad AND irrelevant.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    Will better play calling/ game planning result in a higher rate of "execution"? I think so.

    Will better balance result in defense's having a tougher time "knowing" what the play will be by the offense? I think so.

    Did we have good play calling or good balance last year?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    Since we're stuck on last year's Super Bowl, these Sound FX videos show Belichick's and Brady's reaction to some of the critical plays of the game.

    opening
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/09000d5d826c94b4/SB-XLVI-Sound-FX-Giants-strike-first

    first half
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/09000d5d826c94b6/SB-XLVI-Sound-FX-Patriots-fire-back

    third quarter
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/09000d5d826ca6b7/SB-XLVI-Sound-FX-A-physical-battle?module=HP11_content_stream

    fourth quarter
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/09000d5d826ca796/SB-XLVI-Sound-FX-A-Giant-drive?continuous=true

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Will better play calling/ game planning result in a higher rate of "execution"? I think so.

    Will better balance result in defense's having a tougher time "knowing" what the play will be by the offense? I think so.

    Did we have good play calling or good balance last year?

    [/QUOTE]


    Hmmm. Despite teams knowing what is coming and the limited amount of run/pass balance, the shotgun is more effecient than being under center.

    More yards per throw generally lead to more 1st downs and more points but DAM those incompetant coaches for using it more than the less-effective run/pass ratio under center.

    Over the past 4 years, offenses have averaged 6.0 yards per play from shotgun as apposed to 5.2 yards with the qb under center.

    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS Innovative stats.

    The balance needed on this team has been the balance between the D and the O.

    Hers an excerpt from Kerry Byrnes of CHFF

    If this doesn't put things in perspective, then I don't know what will as it is VERY telling.

     

    Specifically, on the field: Patriots fans worry about the secondary: this is a bad pass defense, and it has been for years.

    The Patriots right now are No. 22 in Defensive Passer Rating, perhaps the most important statistical measure of a defense (besides points allowed) because it correlates so strongly to wins and losses.

    NFL champions typically rank very highly in Defensive Passer Rating and no team has won a Super Bowl with a DPR as bad as New England’s right now (91.2). In fact, only five teams in history have won championships with a DPR worse than 80. So there’s a big issue there for the Patriots.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Will better play calling/ game planning result in a higher rate of "execution"? I think so.

    Will better balance result in defense's having a tougher time "knowing" what the play will be by the offense? I think so.

    Did we have good play calling or good balance last year?

    [/QUOTE]


    Hmmm. Despite teams knowing what is coming and the limited amount of run/pass balance, the shotgun is more effecient than being under center.

    More yards per throw generally lead to more 1st downs and more points but DAM those incompetant coaches for using it more than the less-effective run/pass ratio under center.

    Over the past 4 years, offenses have averaged 6.0 yards per play from shotgun as apposed to 5.2 yards with the qb under center.

    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS Innovative stats.

    The balance needed on this team has been the balance between the D and the O.

    Hers an excerpt from Kerry Byrnes of CHFF

    If this doesn't put things in perspective, then I don't know what will as it is VERY telling.

     

    Specifically, on the field: Patriots fans worry about the secondary: this is a bad pass defense, and it has been for years.

    The Patriots right now are No. 22 in Defensive Passer Rating, perhaps the most important statistical measure of a defense (besides points allowed) because it correlates so strongly to wins and losses.

    NFL champions typically rank very highly in Defensive Passer Rating and no team has won a Super Bowl with a DPR as bad as New England’s right now (91.2). In fact, only five teams in history have won championships with a DPR worse than 80. So there’s a big issue there for the Patriots.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's because passer rating for and against are the #1 indicator of success in the NFL.

    I think scoreability/bendability index is less situation dependent, but passer efficiency on offense and defense is certainly a great stat to use as one to gauge the likelhood of a win. 

    It's still a bit tainted by the fact that losing teams tend to throw more desperation passes. A good way to tame it is discouting passing when down by 10 or 14 points in the 4th. 

    But NE can run no huddle under center, w a RB, without, from the shotgun, whatever. They do as a matter of fact. It's just that the no huddle allows them the chance to 'freeze' the defense in unfavorable matchups, tire the defense out (it's the best method), and catch the defense out of position as they scramble. 

    The reason for going away from it was obvious. They had a small lead and wanted to milk the clock. 

    The reasons for not doing it also have a case, New England was bad at running in the 4th quarter last season (BJGE had a 3.5 YPC in the 4th and saw the bulk of the carries).

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Watch the game. You'll see. "

     

    Watched 2nd half yesterday.  Every mistake obviously is magnified because of result... but the 2 biggest ones were play calls. The safety and 4th qtr pick.  Another fault of obie that gets glossed over is his disregard for Brady as a player.  He uses and abuses the QB with no sense of how the game can punish the position relating to the sequence of plays....

    So dropping Brady into the end zone on 1st play was ascinine.  Do you think jints don't know this tendency?  Do you think Brady doesn't know they know?  How does this obreinstein move play out...?  From the snap Brady is uncomfortable, the play is designed to go deep but gints are sitting on that...  Brady again is forced into trying to execute stupid play call except with this added conundrum... QB performance is depleted by perceived pressure... AN EXPERIENCED OC doesn't put a QB in that position on the FIRST PLAY OF THE fn SB... ! 

     This is so obvious I had to use a few caps... hope you got it... Just blame the coaches once...  See if you can do it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why would that be their "tendency"? New England actually ran the ball in that same situation for 18 yards against the Giants in the first game, first play. Same formation. 

    Then ran a play action fake on that play the second time around.

    Isn't that the "mantra" here ... play action works when you run it?

    They were being unpredictable. They were using an established precedent to "trick" the Giants.

    The Giants just owned them. Four defensive lineman (not a blitz as if they were expecting a pass) beat 7 blockers, because one defensive lineman blew his assignment and two more didn't pick it up. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't have the stats but I would venture a wager that Brady has passed from his end zone more than any QB in the league.  You don't think Coughlin has this book on him ( and obie)...?  A tendency means they've prepared for it and were not surprised. this also means the play is low percentage, aka recipe for disaster.  Obie didn't grasp this. He couldn't. He's a greenhorn.

    could you comment on his big game experience, and/or his stellar credentials he brought to this team...?  He's basically a nobody who rode brady and bbs bus for a couple years... and if you're buying proroids argument that bb signs off on every play, then that makes him bad AND irrelevant.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the things you are saying are fine in a world where you are a mind reader. 

    But the evidence on the field is that the Giants weren't expecting  a pass, they didn't stunt, blitz, run an exchange, play bump and run, or do anything that would demonstrate this. They lined up in straight man underneath shell, with a man over the RB. That is essentially a catch-all formation, but your basic formation for covering runs. 

    I could understand them "knowing it" if they threw a kitchen sink blitz at New England. But they didn't. They just outplayed NE's defensive line on that play. 

    The same way they did on the numerous stuffed runs. 

    This is a fact: BB doesn't sign off on every play ... but he signs off on some because you'll see him make the call, certainly on big decisions like whether to go hurry up, etc, certainly on the "script" which that was part of, he is the main hand who get to compose the plays and variety in the playbook, and thus the overall strategy of the training camp playbook, the seasonal playbook, and the weekly playbook. Also he helps compose halftime adjustments. If anything I'd argue he is spread too thin, and might want to be a bit hands off with the offense.

    But that play was 100% his call because it was one of the first 15. New England (like most teams) scripts their first bunch of plays. They almost never make adjustments. Then they build off of the 15 plays they just ran based on how the other team played them.

    That playcall had been "planned" weeks in advance. It was the same formation, same position, same down, same distance as it was in the last Giants matchup. It's no coincidence they came out and ran a PA pass. And having that "planned" means it wasn't "called," which means BB definitely made that call in the office. 

    As far as Obrien goes ... he has about the same credentials as McDaniels ... one Superbowl loss, and one playoff one and done. They are equally green, and I have no more or less faith in McD, especially considering he was brought in last season before the game specifically to assist in the game plan.

    For all you or I know.... it could have been his idea to run a max protect PA pass on the first play, then signed off on by Belichik and Obrien.  

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Will better play calling/ game planning result in a higher rate of "execution"? I think so.

    Will better balance result in defense's having a tougher time "knowing" what the play will be by the offense? I think so.

    Did we have good play calling or good balance last year?

    [/QUOTE]


    Hmmm. Despite teams knowing what is coming and the limited amount of run/pass balance, the shotgun is more effecient than being under center.

    More yards per throw generally lead to more 1st downs and more points but DAM those incompetant coaches for using it more than the less-effective run/pass ratio under center.

    Over the past 4 years, offenses have averaged 6.0 yards per play from shotgun as apposed to 5.2 yards with the qb under center.

    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS Innovative stats.

    The balance needed on this team has been the balance between the D and the O.

    Hers an excerpt from Kerry Byrnes of CHFF

    If this doesn't put things in perspective, then I don't know what will as it is VERY telling.

     

    Specifically, on the field: Patriots fans worry about the secondary: this is a bad pass defense, and it has been for years.

    The Patriots right now are No. 22 in Defensive Passer Rating, perhaps the most important statistical measure of a defense (besides points allowed) because it correlates so strongly to wins and losses.

    NFL champions typically rank very highly in Defensive Passer Rating and no team has won a Super Bowl with a DPR as bad as New England’s right now (91.2). In fact, only five teams in history have won championships with a DPR worse than 80. So there’s a big issue there for the Patriots.

    [/QUOTE]


    You can't run with empty backfield.  Got no problem with shotgun snap.

    Pats pass D stats are skewed to reflect entire season average with different personnel.  This chff doesn't bother me in the least.   Kerry could be wrong this time though odds are still in his favor.  Only 1 team wins it and it usually ain't the stat favorite.(Denver 3 to 1).  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Will better play calling/ game planning result in a higher rate of "execution"? I think so.

    Will better balance result in defense's having a tougher time "knowing" what the play will be by the offense? I think so.

    Did we have good play calling or good balance last year?

    [/QUOTE]


    Hmmm. Despite teams knowing what is coming and the limited amount of run/pass balance, the shotgun is more effecient than being under center.

    More yards per throw generally lead to more 1st downs and more points but DAM those incompetant coaches for using it more than the less-effective run/pass ratio under center.

    Over the past 4 years, offenses have averaged 6.0 yards per play from shotgun as apposed to 5.2 yards with the qb under center.

    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS Innovative stats.

    The balance needed on this team has been the balance between the D and the O.

    Hers an excerpt from Kerry Byrnes of CHFF

    If this doesn't put things in perspective, then I don't know what will as it is VERY telling.

     

    Specifically, on the field: Patriots fans worry about the secondary: this is a bad pass defense, and it has been for years.

    The Patriots right now are No. 22 in Defensive Passer Rating, perhaps the most important statistical measure of a defense (besides points allowed) because it correlates so strongly to wins and losses.

    NFL champions typically rank very highly in Defensive Passer Rating and no team has won a Super Bowl with a DPR as bad as New England’s right now (91.2). In fact, only five teams in history have won championships with a DPR worse than 80. So there’s a big issue there for the Patriots.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's because passer rating for and against are the #1 indicator of success in the NFL.

    I think scoreability/bendability index is less situation dependent, but passer efficiency on offense and defense is certainly a great stat to use as one to gauge the likelhood of a win. 

    It's still a bit tainted by the fact that losing teams tend to throw more desperation passes. A good way to tame it is discouting passing when down by 10 or 14 points in the 4th. 

    But NE can run no huddle under center, w a RB, without, from the shotgun, whatever. They do as a matter of fact. It's just that the no huddle allows them the chance to 'freeze' the defense in unfavorable matchups, tire the defense out (it's the best method), and catch the defense out of position as they scramble. 

    The reason for going away from it was obvious. They had a small lead and wanted to milk the clock. 

    The reasons for not doing it also have a case, New England was bad at running in the 4th quarter last season (BJGE had a 3.5 YPC in the 4th and saw the bulk of the carries).

    [/QUOTE]


    Agreed, although there is no "fool proof method"  I believe those are the best indicators.

    Points per game can be skewed too and as we have pointed out.   They have been.

    Are they allowing 19 points on 8 or 12 possessions?

    Is the offense so far out ahead that it has rendered the opposing offense one dimensional and easier to defend?  As in the case of the 52-13 games or all the other blow outs.

    Hopefully the D can step up and improve on that DPR during the play-offs

    They've improved it lately, just hope that lasts...  Then again, is PM going to leave 5 td's on the field like the fins did?    :-(

     

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Will better play calling/ game planning result in a higher rate of "execution"? I think so.

    Will better balance result in defense's having a tougher time "knowing" what the play will be by the offense? I think so.

    Did we have good play calling or good balance last year?

    [/QUOTE]


    Hmmm. Despite teams knowing what is coming and the limited amount of run/pass balance, the shotgun is more effecient than being under center.

    More yards per throw generally lead to more 1st downs and more points but DAM those incompetant coaches for using it more than the less-effective run/pass ratio under center.

    Over the past 4 years, offenses have averaged 6.0 yards per play from shotgun as apposed to 5.2 yards with the qb under center.

    FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS Innovative stats.

    The balance needed on this team has been the balance between the D and the O.

    Hers an excerpt from Kerry Byrnes of CHFF

    If this doesn't put things in perspective, then I don't know what will as it is VERY telling.

     

    Specifically, on the field: Patriots fans worry about the secondary: this is a bad pass defense, and it has been for years.

    The Patriots right now are No. 22 in Defensive Passer Rating, perhaps the most important statistical measure of a defense (besides points allowed) because it correlates so strongly to wins and losses.

    NFL champions typically rank very highly in Defensive Passer Rating and no team has won a Super Bowl with a DPR as bad as New England’s right now (91.2). In fact, only five teams in history have won championships with a DPR worse than 80. So there’s a big issue there for the Patriots.

    [/QUOTE]


    You're wrong, dummy. Again. WRONG. IN a bend/don't break in the most offensive era of all time, no one cares about yards allowed between the 20s.

    You're such an idiot. We have heard ever former Pats PLAYER say that over and over and you keep pretending BB runs some basic, simple 4-3 defense here. Read a book for once so we don't have to deal with your awful IQ so much. It's so awful.

    Throw in the fact Goodell orders refs to pull out the flags, especially on our defenders, not wanting any possible advantage in fear of the Pats blowing a team out (see Baltimore game for evidence and a myriad of others), and no one cares about yards allowed.

    You do realize that a PI call or a roughing the QB call counts against the D, statistically, right?

    Keep looking at the yards allowed thing. The rest of us will watch this D get us to another SB, just like last year when they led the charge in the AFC title game. It's about points, not yards.

    Duh. 

    Get a Football for Dummies book already.  Christ, I'll order it and send it to you!

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Is that the book you use because you obviously don't know what the FK you are talking about.

    FACT:  NO TEAM has ever won a SB with a DPR as high as the PATS.

    Look up in your book for "dummies" what that means.  LMAO@U

    FACTS, NOT FICTION, CRUSTY!!!!!!!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Watch the game. You'll see. "

     

    Watched 2nd half yesterday.  Every mistake obviously is magnified because of result... but the 2 biggest ones were play calls. The safety and 4th qtr pick.  Another fault of obie that gets glossed over is his disregard for Brady as a player.  He uses and abuses the QB with no sense of how the game can punish the position relating to the sequence of plays....

    So dropping Brady into the end zone on 1st play was ascinine.  Do you think jints don't know this tendency?  Do you think Brady doesn't know they know?  How does this obreinstein move play out...?  From the snap Brady is uncomfortable, the play is designed to go deep but gints are sitting on that...  Brady again is forced into trying to execute stupid play call except with this added conundrum... QB performance is depleted by perceived pressure... AN EXPERIENCED OC doesn't put a QB in that position on the FIRST PLAY OF THE fn SB... ! 

     This is so obvious I had to use a few caps... hope you got it... Just blame the coaches once...  See if you can do it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why would that be their "tendency"? New England actually ran the ball in that same situation for 18 yards against the Giants in the first game, first play. Same formation. 

    Then ran a play action fake on that play the second time around.

    Isn't that the "mantra" here ... play action works when you run it?

    They were being unpredictable. They were using an established precedent to "trick" the Giants.

    The Giants just owned them. Four defensive lineman (not a blitz as if they were expecting a pass) beat 7 blockers, because one defensive lineman blew his assignment and two more didn't pick it up. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't have the stats but I would venture a wager that Brady has passed from his end zone more than any QB in the league.  You don't think Coughlin has this book on him ( and obie)...?  A tendency means they've prepared for it and were not surprised. this also means the play is low percentage, aka recipe for disaster.  Obie didn't grasp this. He couldn't. He's a greenhorn.

    could you comment on his big game experience, and/or his stellar credentials he brought to this team...?  He's basically a nobody who rode brady and bbs bus for a couple years... and if you're buying proroids argument that bb signs off on every play, then that makes him bad AND irrelevant.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the things you are saying are fine in a world where you are a mind reader. 

    But the evidence on the field is that the Giants weren't expecting  a pass, they didn't stunt, blitz, run an exchange, play bump and run, or do anything that would demonstrate this. They lined up in straight man underneath shell, with a man over the RB. That is essentially a catch-all formation, but your basic formation for covering runs. 

    I could understand them "knowing it" if they threw a kitchen sink blitz at New England. But they didn't. They just outplayed NE's defensive line on that play. 

    The same way they did on the numerous stuffed runs. 

    This is a fact: BB doesn't sign off on every play ... but he signs off on some because you'll see him make the call, certainly on big decisions like whether to go hurry up, etc, certainly on the "script" which that was part of, he is the main hand who get to compose the plays and variety in the playbook, and thus the overall strategy of the training camp playbook, the seasonal playbook, and the weekly playbook. Also he helps compose halftime adjustments. If anything I'd argue he is spread too thin, and might want to be a bit hands off with the offense.

    But that play was 100% his call because it was one of the first 15. New England (like most teams) scripts their first bunch of plays. They almost never make adjustments. Then they build off of the 15 plays they just ran based on how the other team played them.

    That playcall had been "planned" weeks in advance. It was the same formation, same position, same down, same distance as it was in the last Giants matchup. It's no coincidence they came out and ran a PA pass. And having that "planned" means it wasn't "called," which means BB definitely made that call in the office. 

    As far as Obrien goes ... he has about the same credentials as McDaniels ... one Superbowl loss, and one playoff one and done. They are equally green, and I have no more or less faith in McD, especially considering he was brought in last season before the game specifically to assist in the game plan.

    For all you or I know.... it could have been his idea to run a max protect PA pass on the first play, then signed off on by Belichik and Obrien.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Great analysis, Z, in all your posts above--and great reading too.  Just one thing I'd add on the safety play.  Despite what some seem to think, it was actually a fairly conservative play call in that situation in my opinion.  With seven blockers and only three receivers, you are hoping the D bites on the play action fake and a receiver comes open.  But if not, with seven blockers, Brady should have a long time to wait for someone to come open or, if necessary, to roll out of the pocket and throw the ball away.   

     
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    Re: Interesting Offensive Stats: 2012 vs 2011

    In response to RockScully's comment:
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    "Watch the game. You'll see. "

     

    Watched 2nd half yesterday.  Every mistake obviously is magnified because of result... but the 2 biggest ones were play calls. The safety and 4th qtr pick.  Another fault of obie that gets glossed over is his disregard for Brady as a player.  He uses and abuses the QB with no sense of how the game can punish the position relating to the sequence of plays....

    So dropping Brady into the end zone on 1st play was ascinine.  Do you think jints don't know this tendency?  Do you think Brady doesn't know they know?  How does this obreinstein move play out...?  From the snap Brady is uncomfortable, the play is designed to go deep but gints are sitting on that...  Brady again is forced into trying to execute stupid play call except with this added conundrum... QB performance is depleted by perceived pressure... AN EXPERIENCED OC doesn't put a QB in that position on the FIRST PLAY OF THE fn SB... ! 

     This is so obvious I had to use a few caps... hope you got it... Just blame the coaches once...  See if you can do it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why would that be their "tendency"? New England actually ran the ball in that same situation for 18 yards against the Giants in the first game, first play. Same formation. 

    Then ran a play action fake on that play the second time around.

    Isn't that the "mantra" here ... play action works when you run it?

    They were being unpredictable. They were using an established precedent to "trick" the Giants.

    The Giants just owned them. Four defensive lineman (not a blitz as if they were expecting a pass) beat 7 blockers, because one defensive lineman blew his assignment and two more didn't pick it up. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't have the stats but I would venture a wager that Brady has passed from his end zone more than any QB in the league.  You don't think Coughlin has this book on him ( and obie)...?  A tendency means they've prepared for it and were not surprised. this also means the play is low percentage, aka recipe for disaster.  Obie didn't grasp this. He couldn't. He's a greenhorn.

    could you comment on his big game experience, and/or his stellar credentials he brought to this team...?  He's basically a nobody who rode brady and bbs bus for a couple years... and if you're buying proroids argument that bb signs off on every play, then that makes him bad AND irrelevant.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the things you are saying are fine in a world where you are a mind reader. 

    But the evidence on the field is that the Giants weren't expecting  a pass, they didn't stunt, blitz, run an exchange, play bump and run, or do anything that would demonstrate this. They lined up in straight man underneath shell, with a man over the RB. That is essentially a catch-all formation, but your basic formation for covering runs. 

    I could understand them "knowing it" if they threw a kitchen sink blitz at New England. But they didn't. They just outplayed NE's defensive line on that play. 

    The same way they did on the numerous stuffed runs. 

    This is a fact: BB doesn't sign off on every play ... but he signs off on some because you'll see him make the call, certainly on big decisions like whether to go hurry up, etc, certainly on the "script" which that was part of, he is the main hand who get to compose the plays and variety in the playbook, and thus the overall strategy of the training camp playbook, the seasonal playbook, and the weekly playbook. Also he helps compose halftime adjustments. If anything I'd argue he is spread too thin, and might want to be a bit hands off with the offense.

    But that play was 100% his call because it was one of the first 15. New England (like most teams) scripts their first bunch of plays. They almost never make adjustments. Then they build off of the 15 plays they just ran based on how the other team played them.

    That playcall had been "planned" weeks in advance. It was the same formation, same position, same down, same distance as it was in the last Giants matchup. It's no coincidence they came out and ran a PA pass. And having that "planned" means it wasn't "called," which means BB definitely made that call in the office. 

    As far as Obrien goes ... he has about the same credentials as McDaniels ... one Superbowl loss, and one playoff one and done. They are equally green, and I have no more or less faith in McD, especially considering he was brought in last season before the game specifically to assist in the game plan.

    For all you or I know.... it could have been his idea to run a max protect PA pass on the first play, then signed off on by Belichik and Obrien.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Great analysis, Z, in all your posts above--and great reading too.  Just one thing I'd add on the safety play.  Despite what some seem to think, it was actually a fairly conservative play call in that situation in my opinion.  With seven blockers and only three receivers, you are hoping the D bites on the play action fake and a receiver comes open.  But if not, with seven blockers, Brady should have a long time to wait for someone to come open or, if necessary, to roll out of the pocket and throw the ball away.   

    [/QUOTE]

    Z's analysis stinks. Our offense is supposed to be our strength, and it isn't. 17 points to win  a SB in this day and age? Ain't happening! This is like saying Dan Marino was great in postseasons after great regular seasons. It's false.

    17 points is good for a Brady led offense? They scored ZERO points on 4 drives in the 4th qtr. Unacceptable!

    Also, play action on the 1st play of a game backed upon your 4 yard line is a good call?  PLayaction comes from the run game. It's the 1st pluy fo the game! 

    Terrible playcall and a lazy decision by Brady.   He took a risk hoping the refs would think he'd go deep and miss a WR, but they weren't buying it.

    Gee, maybe our offense will show up in the AFC title game and SB this year?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Z's analysis is spot on and you are insane. 

    Will the D show up with a better than .862 DSR this year.  They are currently at a .912 which is worse than last years you know.  Or will they hinder the O with not so much as a 3 & out, and limit possessions, AGAIN!   That is the question!!!!

     

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