Interesting OL read

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Interesting OL read

    8. Cincinnati Bengals (13)

    PB – 2nd, RB – 22nd, PEN – 10th

    Stud: What a year from Andre Smith (+26.9). Our top-graded right tackle was the only player on this unit to consistently generate movement in the run game, while (Brandon Graham beating aside) holding his own in pass protection.

    Dud: Whoever played center. That’s a little unfair to Trevor Robinson (-1.8) who looked the best of a bad bunch, with Jeff Faine (-13.0) completely done, and Kyle Cook (-5.0) far from his best.

    Summary: If not for how bad things were at center then you’re realistically looking at a Top 5 line. The big problem is they’re far better on their heels than they are going forward, and outside of Smith don’t do a good enough job of creating space for their running backs.

    7. Detroit Lions (10)

    PB – 4th, RB – 13th, PEN – 10th

    Stud: That was the best we’ve seen Gosder Cherilus (+26.3) look, but, like the line in general, a lot of that came courtesy of not giving up much in pass protection, as opposed to mauling guys in the run game.

    Dud: The run blocking from Stephen Peterman (-8.4) was as good as anyone on the team, but it’s inexcusable for a guard in that passing attack to get beat for 45 quarterback disruptions.

    Summary: They work well with their quarterback to ensure he’s largely given enough time to make plays in the pocket. They don’t work quite so well with their running backs. They’re far from terrible, and got a boost when Riley Reiff was in on the play, but, with the guys they have behind them, they need to do more.

    6. New Orleans Saints (1)

    PB – 8th, RB – 7th, PEN – 4th

    Stud: He may be the least well known player on the line, but it’s about time people started to recognize how much of a find Brian De La Puente (+23.0) has been for the Saints.

    Dud: While he got better as the year went on, 58 combined sacks, hits and hurries are far too many from Jermon Bushrod (+1.5). Some good work in the run game ensured he ended with a positive grade, but you need your left tackle to pass block better.

    Summary: The often unheralded part of the Saints’ success, the line didn’t get as good play from their tackles as they might have expected, but they got by without Carl Nicks just fine. That owed a lot to Ben Grubbs stepping up. A fine line that looks set for years to come.

    5. Cleveland Browns (14)

    PB – 3rd, RB – 11th, PEN – 25th

    Stud: In the upcoming weeks or so we’re going to do a piece on how often (per second) Joe Thomas (+25.6) gives up pressure compared to the rest of the league. It’s stunning how shutdown he is. Now, if only his run blocking matched up to his work in the pass game.

    Dud: You can get by with players like Shawn Lauvao (-7.3) when the rest of your line is so good.

    Summary: It’s not the done thing to give praise to Cleveland. That said, their line is extremely talented and when they were forced to introduce John Greco into the lineup they got even better. The stars are Thomas and Alex Mack, but the play of rookie Mitchell Schwartz bodes well for this line for a long time to come.

    4. Denver Broncos (30)

    PB – 1st, RB – 16th, PEN – 17th

    Stud: You think Ryan Clady (+27.0) liked blocking for Peyton Manning? He responded with a career year that is going to make him an even richer man.

    Dud: Though he graded positively for the year, you’d likely want to see more push in the run game from Manny Ramirez (+3.0).

    Summary: They had a job to do, and boy did they do it. Protecting their quarterback was their priority and in that regard they did exactly what was required. It started with the tackles, who were excellent in this regard, and not one player on the line ended with a negative grade in pass protection. The downside is they failed to consistently impose themselves in the run game, and this is a big area for improvement.

    3. New York Jets (12)

    PB – 7th, RB – 3rd, PEN – 3rd

    Stud: There were plenty of contenders here, but given some of the guys he kept in check, credit to D’Brickashaw Ferguson (+23.5) for a fine year.

    Dud: The run blocking of Matt Slauson (+2.5) left a lot to be desired.

    Summary: Everybody wants to poke fun at the Jets, and for some reason the offensive line got caught in the crossfire. It wasn’t quite its dominant self in the early weeks of the season, but they finishing playing as well as any team. Nick Mangold and Brandon Moore played angry, while Austin Howard found his feet as an NFL tackle. Still, a line can only do so much to put skill players in position to do good things, and in that regard the Jets are sorely lacking.

    2. New England Patriots (3)

    PB – 16th, RB – 2nd, PEN – 2nd

    Stud: If not for a spell where injury took him off the field and then slowed him down while on it, it’s fair to say Sebastian Vollmer (+21.5) would have been our top ranked right tackle. He was that good.

    Dud: The streaky Dan Connolly (+3.4) had more good than bad moments, but there were still too many negatives for him to get away scot free.

    Summary: Incredibly talented, incredibly deep. The tackles make you breathe easy, and the interior can really overpower a team. Even when Logan Mankins went down there was no dropoff, with the play of Donald Thomas actually proving somewhat more consistent. Stunning, I know.

    1. San Francisco 49ers (20)

    PB – 10th, RB – 1st, PEN – 19th

    Stud: Generally speaking, tackles don’t block like Joe Staley(+40.4). He’s better in pass protection than people will give him credit for (a shame for him that nearly a third of the pressure he allowed ended up as sacks), but it’s his run blocking that sets him apart from the rest.

    Dud: There isn’t one. The worst you can say is that Jonathan Goodwin is a Top 10 center, whereas the rest of the guys are Top 3 at their positions.

    Summary: Phenomenal. A near flawless collection of linemen. Most teams would kill for any one of the guys the 49ers put out, yet they have five of them. The introduction of Alex Boone provided a huge boost, with Anthony Davis upping his game with better play next to them. They’re a young unit by offensive line standards and look set to dominate for a long time.

     
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    Re: Interesting OL read

    Yeah - I read that. And when you think about the back-ups like Cannon and Thomas and the red shirt Zusevics I am not sure they need to draft or look hard for FAs on the line. For the last few years the Pats cuts at OL have been gobbled up by other teams. That center in Denver (Koppen) was a god-send to them when their starter went down.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    Niners might have the best front 7 on D as well...

    You win and lose the game in the trenches...

    Niners in the SB, and I am not surprised. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    SF was in the crapper for years.  If you have that many high picks you look good after a while and it's been a while. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to mia76's comment:

    Yeah - I read that. And when you think about the back-ups like Cannon and Thomas and the red shirt Zusevics I am not sure they need to draft or look hard for FAs on the line. For the last few years the Pats cuts at OL have been gobbled up by other teams. That center in Denver (Koppen) was a god-send to them when their starter went down.



    I don't agree. Vollmer and Thomas are free agents. Mankins has 2-3 more years of peak performance? Connolly is bett suited for back up swing man role. I saw a lot of camp. I really thought if Waters came back, the odd man out due to poor performance was Cannon. He stunk it up in camp. He did play better during the season, but no one has confidence in him yet to get regular snaps. His ceiling may be versatile swing man. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    Yeah - I read that. And when you think about the back-ups like Cannon and Thomas and the red shirt Zusevics I am not sure they need to draft or look hard for FAs on the line. For the last few years the Pats cuts at OL have been gobbled up by other teams. That center in Denver (Koppen) was a god-send to them when their starter went down.

     



    I don't agree. Vollmer and Thomas are free agents. Mankins has 2-3 more years of peak performance? Connolly is bett suited for back up swing man role. I saw a lot of camp. I really thought if Waters came back, the odd man out due to poor performance was Cannon. He stunk it up in camp. He did play better during the season, but no one has confidence in him yet to get regular snaps. His ceiling may be versatile swing man. 

     




    Thomas is close to a min contract guy, he'll be back.

    They would be foolish not to resign Vollmer.

    You can make and argument that we could upgrade RG but really would you spend good amount of money or high draft picks to replace a (+) OLman when there are other areas that need attention and would provide a greater impact to the team?

    You are really trying to argue that the 3rd best OL in the league needs to add more over other positions?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cyberknot. Show Cyberknot's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

     All I can say is, it will be a sad, sad day in Patriotland when Scar retires.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    Yeah - I read that. And when you think about the back-ups like Cannon and Thomas and the red shirt Zusevics I am not sure they need to draft or look hard for FAs on the line. For the last few years the Pats cuts at OL have been gobbled up by other teams. That center in Denver (Koppen) was a god-send to them when their starter went down.

     



    I don't agree. Vollmer and Thomas are free agents. Mankins has 2-3 more years of peak performance? Connolly is bett suited for back up swing man role. I saw a lot of camp. I really thought if Waters came back, the odd man out due to poor performance was Cannon. He stunk it up in camp. He did play better during the season, but no one has confidence in him yet to get regular snaps. His ceiling may be versatile swing man. 

     

     




    Thomas is close to a min contract guy, he'll be back.

    Not if some one offers him more money than the Pats can afford

     

    They would be foolish not to resign Vollmer.

    Agreed, unless someone decide to pay him left tackle money, then the Pats have to franchise him or let him walk. The franchise offer to Vollmer will assure Wes and Talib are out of reach for the Pats in their current cap condition

    You can make and argument that we could upgrade RG but really would you spend good amount of money or high draft picks to replace a (+) OLman when there are other areas that need attention and would provide a greater impact to the team?

    It would not surprise me to see the Pats trade down to recover some lost picks, and use one ofthose picks on an OLman. Esp if Vollmer and Thomas sign elsewhere

    You are really trying to argue that the 3rd best OL in the league needs to add more over other positions?

    I am saying the OL needs to stay 7-8 deep. I am saying it is not a lock Vollmer and Thomas are back. I am saying if they are not back, I am not confortable with Cannon seeing major snaps. I would prefer a bigger C than Wendell.

     




     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    I have been saying that if there is no surprise trade netting the Patriots a top 10 pick they should take an Olineman. I am hoping that Jones from Alabama will still be on the board at 29.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    Yeah - I read that. And when you think about the back-ups like Cannon and Thomas and the red shirt Zusevics I am not sure they need to draft or look hard for FAs on the line. For the last few years the Pats cuts at OL have been gobbled up by other teams. That center in Denver (Koppen) was a god-send to them when their starter went down.

     



    I don't agree. Vollmer and Thomas are free agents. Mankins has 2-3 more years of peak performance? Connolly is bett suited for back up swing man role. I saw a lot of camp. I really thought if Waters came back, the odd man out due to poor performance was Cannon. He stunk it up in camp. He did play better during the season, but no one has confidence in him yet to get regular snaps. His ceiling may be versatile swing man. 

     

     




    Thomas is close to a min contract guy, he'll be back.

     

    They would be foolish not to resign Vollmer.

    You can make and argument that we could upgrade RG but really would you spend good amount of money or high draft picks to replace a (+) OLman when there are other areas that need attention and would provide a greater impact to the team?

    You are really trying to argue that the 3rd best OL in the league needs to add more over other positions?



    Cannon played well in relief of Vollmer this past year in what was really an extended rookie campaign for him given his medical history. Thomas outplayed a less than 100% Mankins and I agree he should come at a very reasonable number as a FA. And Zusevics was going to be a fairly high draft pick (2nd/3rd?) before he got injured at the combine and 'red-shirted'. And yes, thank goodness for Scar.

    We had a vastly improved running game this past year and really solid pass protection - AFC loss was not because of pass protection, zero sacks and limited pressures.

    PatsEng - absolutely right - with limited capital, there are other areas of the team that need investment before spending on O-line except for Vollmer/Thomas. I suspect those two can be resigned for a total cap hit of $4-5M. Top right tackles are not that expensive and with medical history they can add some incentives based on playing time.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    I'm quite pleased that Cannon has been able to contribute to any significant degree.  He was taken as a value pick for the future and has done well to be on the field given that from which he is recovering.  He may very well have reached his ceiling but I think it's a little early to make that assessment.

    Re-signing Vollmer I believe is a Pats priority.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    Yeah - I read that. And when you think about the back-ups like Cannon and Thomas and the red shirt Zusevics I am not sure they need to draft or look hard for FAs on the line. For the last few years the Pats cuts at OL have been gobbled up by other teams. That center in Denver (Koppen) was a god-send to them when their starter went down.

     



    I don't agree. Vollmer and Thomas are free agents. Mankins has 2-3 more years of peak performance? Connolly is bett suited for back up swing man role. I saw a lot of camp. I really thought if Waters came back, the odd man out due to poor performance was Cannon. He stunk it up in camp. He did play better during the season, but no one has confidence in him yet to get regular snaps. His ceiling may be versatile swing man. 

     

     




    Thomas is close to a min contract guy, he'll be back.

    Not if some one offers him more money than the Pats can afford

     

    They would be foolish not to resign Vollmer.

    Agreed, unless someone decide to pay him left tackle money, then the Pats have to franchise him or let him walk. The franchise offer to Vollmer will assure Wes and Talib are out of reach for the Pats in their current cap condition

    You can make and argument that we could upgrade RG but really would you spend good amount of money or high draft picks to replace a (+) OLman when there are other areas that need attention and would provide a greater impact to the team?

    It would not surprise me to see the Pats trade down to recover some lost picks, and use one ofthose picks on an OLman. Esp if Vollmer and Thomas sign elsewhere

    You are really trying to argue that the 3rd best OL in the league needs to add more over other positions?

    I am saying the OL needs to stay 7-8 deep. I am saying it is not a lock Vollmer and Thomas are back. I am saying if they are not back, I am not confortable with Cannon seeing major snaps. I would prefer a bigger C than Wendell.

     




     




    rkarp you can say that about every FA everywhere. Of course someone could offer more but would they? We have $18-34mil in space depending on which reports are right and that places then (even on low end) in the top 1/3 of the league for cap space. Thomas even if offered double min contract it's less then $1mil extra on cap, unless you believe someone will give him starting G money at which point you might be looking at $3-4mil a year. I don't see that happening but you aren't talking a huge chunk of cap space. Then with Vollmer, if you offer him top 3 RT money you are still only talking ~$6mil per year which you can work the numbers around so the majority gets placed into the cap extension period. What Vollmer is going to get won't affect who you can and can't resign. Matter a fact you could sign Vollmer, Talib, and tag Welker and still have enough cap left over to sign all your draft picks and depth guys without releasing or asking for a contract rework from a single player. Resigning players isn't an issue with the Pats this offseason, what would be a problem is if they want to sign starting caliber or big name guys. Then you'd have to look at Welker since his cap number if tagged again would be more then Vollmer, Talib, draft picks, and depth guy signings combined.

    It wouldn't surprise me if they traded down either but it would surprise me if they spent high in the draft on OL. If they draft mid-late round OL for depth I could easily see that but what you inferred was that this OL has issues that need to be addressed this year and I just don't see them. Provided they resign Thomas and Vollmer (which they are fully capable of without much cap impact for this year) this OL is solid and deep for the furture, though you can argue that an upgrade at RG would be nice but not needed

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    Yeah - I read that. And when you think about the back-ups like Cannon and Thomas and the red shirt Zusevics I am not sure they need to draft or look hard for FAs on the line. For the last few years the Pats cuts at OL have been gobbled up by other teams. That center in Denver (Koppen) was a god-send to them when their starter went down.

     



    I don't agree. Vollmer and Thomas are free agents. Mankins has 2-3 more years of peak performance? Connolly is bett suited for back up swing man role. I saw a lot of camp. I really thought if Waters came back, the odd man out due to poor performance was Cannon. He stunk it up in camp. He did play better during the season, but no one has confidence in him yet to get regular snaps. His ceiling may be versatile swing man. 

     

     




    Thomas is close to a min contract guy, he'll be back.

    Not if some one offers him more money than the Pats can afford

     

    They would be foolish not to resign Vollmer.

    Agreed, unless someone decide to pay him left tackle money, then the Pats have to franchise him or let him walk. The franchise offer to Vollmer will assure Wes and Talib are out of reach for the Pats in their current cap condition

    You can make and argument that we could upgrade RG but really would you spend good amount of money or high draft picks to replace a (+) OLman when there are other areas that need attention and would provide a greater impact to the team?

    It would not surprise me to see the Pats trade down to recover some lost picks, and use one ofthose picks on an OLman. Esp if Vollmer and Thomas sign elsewhere

    You are really trying to argue that the 3rd best OL in the league needs to add more over other positions?

    I am saying the OL needs to stay 7-8 deep. I am saying it is not a lock Vollmer and Thomas are back. I am saying if they are not back, I am not confortable with Cannon seeing major snaps. I would prefer a bigger C than Wendell.

     




     

     




    rkarp you can say that about every FA everywhere. Of course someone could offer more but would they? We have $18-34mil in space depending on which reports are right and that places then (even on low end) in the top 1/3 of the league for cap space. Thomas even if offered double min contract it's less then $1mil extra on cap, unless you believe someone will give him starting G money at which point you might be looking at $3-4mil a year. I don't see that happening but you aren't talking a huge chunk of cap space. Then with Vollmer, if you offer him top 3 RT money you are still only talking ~$6mil per year which you can work the numbers around so the majority gets placed into the cap extension period. What Vollmer is going to get won't affect who you can and can't resign. Matter a fact you could sign Vollmer, Talib, and tag Welker and still have enough cap left over to sign all your draft picks and depth guys without releasing or asking for a contract rework from a single player. Resigning players isn't an issue with the Pats this offseason, what would be a problem is if they want to sign starting caliber or big name guys. Then you'd have to look at Welker since his cap number if tagged again would be more then Vollmer, Talib, draft picks, and depth guy signings combined.

     

    It wouldn't surprise me if they traded down either but it would surprise me if they spent high in the draft on OL. If they draft mid-late round OL for depth I could easily see that but what you inferred was that this OL has issues that need to be addressed this year and I just don't see them. Provided they resign Thomas and Vollmer (which they are fully capable of without much cap impact for this year) this OL is solid and deep for the furture, though you can argue that an upgrade at RG would be nice but not needed



    you are absolutely mistaken. The Pats have approx $14 million in cap space if you factor in the CFL signings and the rookie slots as they stand today (could change if the Pats trade draft choices)

    The Pats have 2-3 players of consequence that could be renegotiated. Mankins, Vince and Mayo. I question if Mankins will do it. I think Vince and Mayo would. Is it smart to renegotiate Vince at his age?

    The elephant in the room is TB. If he is renegotiated, he could save $5millin against the cap, but his cap hit next year w/b $28 million. You could extend Brady and push money to later years, but then Brady is signed for $20 million per year into his 40's.

    Players could be cut. Ghost, Fells, Lloyd...to save on the cap, but they then have to be replaced.

    If I am the Dolphins, rather than sign Long for $10 million to play LT, I would sign Vollmer for $8m to play left tackle

    The franchise tag does not differentiate between LT and RT. There is a franchise tag for OT, and it is approx $9.6 million in 2013.

    Tagging Welker, as a 2nd year tag will cost 120% of his last years salary, so tagging Welker will cost approx $11 million, leaving $3million available unless the team cuts and/or renegotiates (which they will to some degree)

    If they want to franchise Talib, the franchise tender for a CB is approx $10.6 million

    We have seen Thomas play well along the entire line. His salary this year was $750k.  I would be surprised if he didnt command an offer of 3/$10 with 4-5 million guaranteed 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    You really think Thomas would command that kind of a salary? That would surpise me.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    Every time I read an article like this I think the same thing every time. Thank you Scar.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    You really think Thomas would command that kind of a salary? That would surpise me.




    the guy made $750 this year and played well. You think no other teams noticed? PatsEng said "even if they offered him double minimum wage"...well, that is less than he made this year, when he played in 50% of the offensive snaps for the 3rd ranked OL in football.

    To tell the truth, I actually do believe that the Pats first option is to bring both Vollmer and Thomas back unless they are completely blown away. Bringing them both back, not signing Wes or Talib (both too expensive) but retaining Edelman, Woody, Arrington, Huma (cutting Fells)

    It also would not surprise me to see Lloyd cut, with Hartline, and a #2 joining Edelman and maybe STallworth at WR.

     

    Skill position players: 

    Hartline/Edelman/#2 draft choice/Stallworth/Britt

    Gronk/Ballard/Hern/Huma

    Ridley/Vereen/Woody/Bolden/Demps

    If the above scenario plays out, with out a doubt, 2012 the worst free agency signing year in BB's tenure

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    You really think Thomas would command that kind of a salary? That would surpise me.

     




    the guy made $750 this year and played well. You think no other teams noticed? PatsEng said "even if they offered him double minimum wage"...well, that is less than he made this year, when he played in 50% of the offensive snaps for the 3rd ranked OL in football.

     

    To tell the truth, I actually do believe that the Pats first option is to bring both Vollmer and Thomas back unless they are completely blown away. Bringing them both back, not signing Wes or Talib (both too expensive) but retaining Edelman, Woody, Arrington, Huma (cutting Fells)

    It also would not surprise me to see Lloyd cut, with Hartline, and a #2 joining Edelman and maybe STallworth at WR.

     

    Skill position players: 

    Hartline/Edelman/#2 draft choice/Stallworth/Britt

    Gronk/Ballard/Hern/Huma

    Ridley/Vereen/Woody/Bolden/Demps

    If the above scenario plays out, with out a doubt, 2012 the worst free agency signing year in BB's tenure



    Not really commenting on the rest but with regard to Thomas, the average salary of an NFL O-lineman is $1,267,402.  

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0807/nfl.average.salaries.by.position/content.3.html

    You're suggesting Thomas would get nearly 2 1/2 times that.  I really don't see that happening.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    You really think Thomas would command that kind of a salary? That would surpise me.

     




    the guy made $750 this year and played well. You think no other teams noticed? PatsEng said "even if they offered him double minimum wage"...well, that is less than he made this year, when he played in 50% of the offensive snaps for the 3rd ranked OL in football.

     

    To tell the truth, I actually do believe that the Pats first option is to bring both Vollmer and Thomas back unless they are completely blown away. Bringing them both back, not signing Wes or Talib (both too expensive) but retaining Edelman, Woody, Arrington, Huma (cutting Fells)

    It also would not surprise me to see Lloyd cut, with Hartline, and a #2 joining Edelman and maybe STallworth at WR.

     

    Skill position players: 

    Hartline/Edelman/#2 draft choice/Stallworth/Britt

    Gronk/Ballard/Hern/Huma

    Ridley/Vereen/Woody/Bolden/Demps

    If the above scenario plays out, with out a doubt, 2012 the worst free agency signing year in BB's tenure

     



    Not really commenting on the rest but with regard to Thomas, the average salary of an NFL O-lineman is $1,267,402.  

     

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0807/nfl.average.salaries.by.position/content.3.html

    You're suggesting Thomas would get nearly 2 1/2 times that.  I really don't see that happening.



    we are actually saying the ame thing, and that is exactly the salary I see Thomas getting.

    Year 1-$1.75 salary. 1.0 sign bonus. 250k Roster bonus. 250k workout bonus.

    Year 2-1.75 salary. 250 roster bonus. 250 workout bonus

    year 3(bump in team cap)-2.75 salary.250 roster bonus. 250 workout bonus

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    Hmmm, certainly be interesting to see how it plays out.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to garytx's comment:

    SF was in the crapper for years.  If you have that many high picks you look good after a while and it's been a while. 



    It is not just about drafting high. In 2010, the 49ers traded up for Davis and got Iupati by trading their second round pick the previous season. That was the year the Patriots traded down and ended up with McCourty in the first round.  Staley was on the board when the Patriots picked Meriweather in the 2007 draft. Goodwin is a 10 year veteran who has been with three teams, and was a pro-bowl center the season before they signed him, and Boone was an undrafted FA.

    I cannot complain about what the Patriots did in 2010. That was probably BB's best draft (McCourty, Gronk, Spikes and Hernandez plus Cunningham, Deaderick, and Mesko).

    The 2007 draft was a disaster. Meriweather was the only guy who really played, and we all know how that ended. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    With Vollmers medical history I just don't see anyone paying him at top 10 RT money - because signing him means that you still need a high quality back-up to cover for the 4-6 games he will miss based on last two years. Top 10 RT money comes in about 5M/per for 4 years. With a typical signing bonus/escalation that comes in at 3-4M for the first year. And no one is going to pay him as a left tackle based on a couple of games a few years ago, nor will the pats tag him because that is the same as paying him as a left tackle. 

    I could see someone offering Thomas a 4 year deal at 10M but back loaded and with limited guarantee (4M), and I could see the pats matching that. With half of the money at the back end unguaranteed - 2M signing, 1M, 1.5M, 2.5M, 3M, first two years guaranteed. If he develops further, great, you renegotiate in year three extending his deal, if not you cut him after 2 years. Cap hit 1.5M first year. I think that would be as good as he could expect - take a look at Waters a 5 time probowler - he was at 2.25/year.

    No way Welker is tagged - and he gets to test the market if he doesn't accept three years 20M with 14M guaranteed - cap hit around 5-6M in the first year.

    Talib - no way a player with his history gets tagged and if anyone offers him top ten money he is gone. I would not be surprised if he signs a middle of the pack one or two year deal to improve his reputation before trying for the big payday. With the current history, I would be surprised if anyone offers more than 6M/year or guaranteed money beyond about 10M.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to mia76's comment:

    With Vollmers medical history I just don't see anyone paying him at top 10 RT money - because signing him means that you still need a high quality back-up to cover for the 4-6 games he will miss based on last two years. Top 10 RT money comes in about 5M/per for 4 years. With a typical signing bonus/escalation that comes in at 3-4M for the first year. And no one is going to pay him as a left tackle based on a couple of games a few years ago, nor will the pats tag him because that is the same as paying him as a left tackle. 

    I could see someone offering Thomas a 4 year deal at 10M but back loaded and with limited guarantee (4M), and I could see the pats matching that. With half of the money at the back end unguaranteed - 2M signing, 1M, 1.5M, 2.5M, 3M, first two years guaranteed. If he develops further, great, you renegotiate in year three extending his deal, if not you cut him after 2 years. Cap hit 1.5M first year. I think that would be as good as he could expect - take a look at Waters a 5 time probowler - he was at 2.25/year.

    No way Welker is tagged - and he gets to test the market if he doesn't accept three years 20M with 14M guaranteed - cap hit around 5-6M in the first year.

    Talib - no way a player with his history gets tagged and if anyone offers him top ten money he is gone. I would not be surprised if he signs a middle of the pack one or two year deal to improve his reputation before trying for the big payday. With the current history, I would be surprised if anyone offers more than 6M/year or guaranteed money beyond about 10M.



    I don't disagree with the numbers you put forward. But if the Patriots tried to sign those four guys with cap hits of $6M, $6M, $4M and $2M that would literally use up all the cap space and still leave them with 14 empty roster spaces. The Patriots only had 33 players under contract for 2013 when the season ended. Even at minimum salaries 14 players will cost between $7M and $10M depending the years of service of guys you sign - the rookie minimum next season is $405k.

    The fact is that even with a good amount of cap space the Patriots will need to cut or renogitiate some players to make all their signings...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to mia76's comment:

    With Vollmers medical history I just don't see anyone paying him at top 10 RT money - because signing him means that you still need a high quality back-up to cover for the 4-6 games he will miss based on last two years. Top 10 RT money comes in about 5M/per for 4 years. With a typical signing bonus/escalation that comes in at 3-4M for the first year. And no one is going to pay him as a left tackle based on a couple of games a few years ago, nor will the pats tag him because that is the same as paying him as a left tackle. 

    I could see someone offering Thomas a 4 year deal at 10M but back loaded and with limited guarantee (4M), and I could see the pats matching that. With half of the money at the back end unguaranteed - 2M signing, 1M, 1.5M, 2.5M, 3M, first two years guaranteed. If he develops further, great, you renegotiate in year three extending his deal, if not you cut him after 2 years. Cap hit 1.5M first year. I think that would be as good as he could expect - take a look at Waters a 5 time probowler - he was at 2.25/year.

    No way Welker is tagged - and he gets to test the market if he doesn't accept three years 20M with 14M guaranteed - cap hit around 5-6M in the first year.

    Talib - no way a player with his history gets tagged and if anyone offers him top ten money he is gone. I would not be surprised if he signs a middle of the pack one or two year deal to improve his reputation before trying for the big payday. With the current history, I would be surprised if anyone offers more than 6M/year or guaranteed money beyond about 10M.



    I think you are low on Vollmer

    we agree on Thomas

    I think Talib is gone

    I think Wes is gone

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Re: Interesting OL read

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    Niners might have the best front 7 on D as well...

    You win and lose the game in the trenches...

    Niners in the SB, and I am not surprised. 




    And a stud RB, TE and LB,    

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
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