Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : "Bad stretches"??? Are you high? This is more than just a "bad stretch". This is habitual.   HABITUAL, which means it's a pattern. That pattern is rooted and sourced in what we are trying to explain to you.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    What the pattern of scoring 30 points a game?  Yea that's just horrible.  How come no matter how bad the defense plays you ALWAYS point to the fact that the D only gives up 20 points a game.  You ALWAYS point to points as your argument when defending the D.  Doesn't matter how many yards they give up, how they go long "habitual" parts of the game looking horrible.  All that matters is points.

    So I don't care if they "habitual" problems during a game on offense.  All that matters is how many points they score at the end of the game.  An offense that scores 30 points a game is NOT a problem to anyone but you Rusty.
     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : Rusty, you're choking on your whopper here.   It just isn't true that the shotgun spread was a failure.  They moved the ball very effectively using a spread with no running back at all for the first two drives in the third quarter. And every team subs backs all the time.  It's not 1972 where every play is run out of the pro-set, with the same back, same TE, and same two receivers.  Every team in the league is changing their packages continuously to create mismatches and confuse the defense.  You can't run one back the entire game ... it just doesn't work anymore.  And besides, Woodhead was their most effective back in the first half.  I'd like to see more Ridley too--I don't disagree with you there--but you're carrying this argument way too far to the point of absurdity.  If O'Brien listened to you he'd be running a 1970s offense.  There's a reason no one does that anymore.  It no longer works. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I do agree with this Pro. It doesn't matter between spread, shotgun, 2 TE, 2 RB or any other formation. The whole trick is to mix it up enough to create mismatches and prevent the D from dictating the formation. That's what happened in the first half. Mia clearly came out to prevent the pass and dictated formation because there was no threat with anything else. The first drive coming out of the half the O did a little better but still stalled because Mia D was still T'ing off of the pass. The second drive they started mixing in Ridley and the D had to adjust. From there the Pats did a great job mixing it up and dictating the formations and pace of the game. They just need to do it earlier in the game. If they mix it up earlier whatever formations they want to run is fine but when it's clear the D is set to prevent the pass then don't bang your head against the wall for an entire half

     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : How many times has that happened in the last couple of years? Like 5? How many times has the run been taken away?  Like 26?
    Posted by Patsfansince1966[/QUOTE]


    Well lets see when we've run it 50% of time or more under the Brady era we've lost once so I'm going to say 1. Now that is slightly skewed since when you are winning you run more however, 50% is a large chunk and would still constitute a more balanced attack overall.

    How many times have they lost passing more then 65% this year 3 times. Now again when you are down you tend to pass more but clearly it was unbalanced to begin with.

    So I'd say teams have an easier time taking the pass away when we limit the run than taking the run away when we limit the pass
     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : Well lets see when we've run it 50% of time or more under the Brady era we've lost once so I'm going to say 1. Now that is slightly skewed since when you are winning you run more however, 50% is a large chunk and would still constitute a more balanced attack overall. How many times have they lost passing more then 65% this year 3 times. Now again when you are down you tend to pass more but clearly it was unbalanced to begin with. So I'd say teams have an easier time taking the pass away when we limit the run than taking the run away when we limit the pass
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    At this point I think it's pretty simple.  What is the strength of this team? passing or running?  You do what your strength is the majority of the time.  Should you run the ball sometimes?  Sure, but no way should you be 50/50 when you are soooo much better at passing then running the ball.
     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : I do agree with this Pro. It doesn't matter between spread, shotgun, 2 TE, 2 RB or any other formation. The whole trick is to mix it up enough to create mismatches and prevent the D from dictating the formation. That's what happened in the first half. Mia clearly came out to prevent the pass and dictated formation because there was no threat with anything else. The first drive coming out of the half the O did a little better but still stalled because Mia D was still T'ing off of the pass. The second drive they started mixing in Ridley and the D had to adjust. From there the Pats did a great job mixing it up and dictating the formations and pace of the game. They just need to do it earlier in the game. If they mix it up earlier whatever formations they want to run is fine but when it's clear the D is set to prevent the pass then don't bang your head against the wall for an entire half
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    PatsEng . . . I think people are discounting the problems the Pats were having with their offensive line.  I think the problems in the first half had a lot to do with that.  Brady was getting killed even when they weren't spread.  The Pats were in a lot of 2nd and longs and 3rd and longs because of miscues on first down.  In those situations, you almost have to pass and that makes you more predictable. Honestly, what helped the Pats offense this game was getting their O line straightened out and going up-tempo, no huddle which was tiring to the Dolphin's defense and ended up taking the edge off their attack.  

    I actually think BO'B called a pretty good game this week, with lots of variety.  I think they just had problems with the O-line in the first half. 

     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : PatsEng . . . I think people are discounting the problems the Pats were having with their offensive line.  I think the problems in the first half had a lot to do with that.  Brady was getting killed even when they weren't spread.  The Pats were in a lot of 2nd and longs and 3rd and longs because of miscues on first down.  In those situations, you almost have to pass and that makes you more predictable. Honestly, what helped the Pats offense this game was getting their O line straightened out and going up-tempo, no huddle which was tiring to the Dolphin's defense and ended up taking the edge off their attack.   I actually think BO'B called a pretty good game this week, with lots of variety.  I think they just had problems with the O-line in the first half. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    I would normally say it's been the line but when they go into that 70% pass range they get shut down by almost every team whether for a half or for the game so I don't completely toss it on the OL. Of course it only makes the OL's job harder when the D knows what you are going to do and can plan around it.

    I'll give OB a ton of credit coming out of the half and adjusting but that first half was horrible. He can't let that happen in the playoffs and needs to mix it up sooner or adjust sooner. A 0 at the half in the playoffs and we'll lose

     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]Look at this here: New England Patriots at 13:45 MIA NWE 1st and 10 at NE 25 B.Green-Ellis right guard to NE 28 for 3 yards (K.Burnett).     2nd and 7 at NE 28 (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to R.Gronkowski to NE 34 for 6 yards (Y.Bell).     3rd and 1 at NE 34 (No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to W.Welker (S.Smith).     LOL!!! 3rd and 1, no huddle to Welker. My good god almighty.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    Yes because we all know that on 3rd and 1 if you run it the defense has no chance to stop it.  Never happens.  GOOD GRIEF!!!
     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : At this point I think it's pretty simple.  What is the strength of this team? passing or running?  You do what your strength is the majority of the time.  Should you run the ball sometimes?  Sure, but no way should you be 50/50 when you are soooo much better at passing then running the ball.
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

    You play to your strengths and your opponents weakness. I don't think you need a straight 50/50 throughout the game. Actually if you are around 55% pass then you end up around 50% by the end of the game (because you are usually up and run more late in the 4th). I do think you need the run to setup the pass and make the D set back on their heels for play action and to prevent blitz's buying Brady more time.

    Going heavy on either side is bad but mixing it up to the point where you get your RB's into a rhythm and the D can't just prepare for the pass is key and improves your strength

     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In response to "Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : What if being unpredictable doesn't work? Posted by Patsfansince1966[/QUOTE] This has to be one of the dumber questions ever posted on this board ...
     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : Exactly! Why on earth do Pats fans want a half of complete inept offensive output? It's almost like they want to praise how they adjusted more so than acknowledge how much of a problem the shotgun spread is as a base offense. Why? How much more proof do we need? I get Miami came to play ,but so will Houston, Denver, Pitt or Balt!  Good grief! If I see them open the playoffs in that offense, I will concede defeat in the 1st qtr, hoping I am dead wrong.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    King the spread isn't the problem. THe amount of times they run the spread without developing a run game is.

    If they can make the D respect the run and try to game plan around it then the spread can be extremely effective. Esp if the mismatches are there and the D is worn out. If the LB's are already winded and bruised up by the RB's they have zero shot covering any of our receivers in a spread.  They just have to mix it up

     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : You play to your strengths and your opponents weakness. I don't think you need a straight 50/50 throughout the game. Actually if you are around 55% pass then you end up around 50% by the end of the game (because you are usually up and run more late in the 4th). I do think you need the run to setup the pass and make the D set back on their heels for play action and to prevent blitz's buying Brady more time. Going heavy on either side is bad but mixing it up to the point where you get your RB's into a rhythm and the D can't just prepare for the pass is key and improves your strength
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I would only say I don't think this offense needs to run to setup the pass.  I do agree they need to mix it some to keep the D from just going straight pass rush.  They use to do this ALOT with screens but Faulk seems to have lost a step and no other back seems to fill this role.  It is always helpful if you can keep a defense guessing.

    The one thing I can't stand thou is the fact that on 2nd and 10 or longer they run the ball 99 percent of the time.  I HATE that so much.....
     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : Two facts: 1. You have an easier time executing a run for 1 yard than you do a 3 yard bullet pass to an obvious #1 target in Welker. 2. More time runs off the clock if you don't get it, which helps in the TOP game. Are these concepts too hard for you to grasp? If we can't convert a 1 yard run as an offensive group, we have no business winning a SB, Einstein.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    Hey Einstein completing a 1 yard pass shouldn't be that difficult either. 
     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : I would only say I don't think this offense needs to run to setup the pass.  I do agree they need to mix it some to keep the D from just going straight pass rush.  They use to do this ALOT with screens but Faulk seems to have lost a step and no other back seems to fill this role.  It is always helpful if you can keep a defense guessing. The one thing I can't stand thou is the fact that on 2nd and 10 or longer they run the ball 99 percent of the time.  I HATE that so much.....
    Posted by Patsman3[/QUOTE]

    Well the old saying was that screens were just extensions of the ground game and I agree. Screens have the same affect as running the ball essentially so yes if you have more screens you don't need to run as much but both are needed to improve your passing game. Without runs your play action becomes useless which takes out a huge chunk of plays. Brady himself has mentioned this. In our O the run improves the pass by preventing D's from blitzing Brady and it also wears down LB's to create mismatches in the second half that our TE's and Welker exploit

     
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    Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss

    In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Interesting Stat from Mike Reiss : Of course mixing it up when the run isn't there is playing into the defense's hands. You people are NOT Pats fans.
    Posted by Patsfansince1966[/QUOTE]

    Says the fan who doesn't realize how we won our SB's

     
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