Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

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    Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    the bottom line is the patriots finally did what we wanted and people are still unhappy. They finally drafted based on need. Day 1 was awesome. Day 2 can be viwed from a number of angles. Pro - they picked a S/CB and a DE - that's a homerun, as we now have 4 new guys on D at exactly the spots we wanted. Con - they reached for the S/CB and made a poor "draft value" trade. Here's one way to look at it. Bill filled major needs Day 1 with studs. Having passed on top 2 safeties, he enters Day 2 NEEDING a safety, as it is THE LARGEST REMAINING HOLE ON HIS CLUB. How much do you overpay for one last player at the absolute spot you need ? I believe he wanted an extra pick so he knew he'd trade #60. If he takes say Worthy at 48, and trades 60 for a 90 and something else, that means he has to wait 40 picks and could lose his guy. Worthy is good, but the NEED is CB/S. Alternatively you take the guy you like at your NEED position regardless of grade, knowing you can trade the 60 having your biggest holes filled. Obviously he feels the 90s = 60s in value, and we can grade out a guy like Bequette next year to see if that works. If 90=60, and if no aggressive trader appears, you take what you can get - obviously at that point in the draft, Denver did not emerge with the ttrade they later made. Further, in the 5th round, you hope for a kick-return/dope smoking player to slide and become the next 5th round gem. If Bill truly believes that 60=90, then whatever he gets is an option worth something. The difference in money btw is not relevant. Back to the CB/S. Obviously the draftniks graded 25+ S's. I think Bill's pick says that we had 2 superior "sure things" at S and then another 20-30 that are similar. Honestly how many guys in college football are fast, tough, 6ft and 200lbs ? 50 ?,100? It's really no surprise that 2 are "Steve Jobs" and the rest are bunched together. I believe he looks at factors that draftniks ignore or underweight: attitude, versatility, spec teams, coach comments, injury history, intelligence, captain, consistency, motivation. Adding in these adjustments its easy to see how a guy can move from 20 to 3 among a group of tightly bunched players.


    my quick retort:

    very intelligent and reasonable post! 
    good evaluation. 
    in the end, he had no choice but to make a pick of the safety he liked best (using your reasoning). if wilson is adequate or better and the later picks stay on the team and produce (dennard maybe even be a + player), then it all was worth it.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    As always it's absurd to grade any pick at any point before the player has had 2-3 years in the system, and I understand there is a "need" at safety...But I just can't figure out the pick.  Even if this was BBs guy and he was dead set on drafting him, there isn't a scrap of evidence that he was considered anything more than a 5-7 round guy by the few other teams that had him in for visits (a visit is just that, it just shows a desire to gather more info).  I seriously, seriously doubt there was any real chance of him getting poached before round 5; so why not try to trade back and gather more capital while still landing your guy?  Or sit tight and get a Tru Johnson, who offers corner/safety flexibility, though I guess Wilson is a bit more in the Chung mold that the rover type player.  I dunno, I can't say I know alot about this guy so it's not fair to judge, and BB gets the benefit of the doubt.  But on paper this is a headscratcher, there's a difference between drafting for need, and reaching outright, which is why i'm not huge on drafting for need in the first place, it will always trend towards reaching for players who aren't as good as their draft spot.  I hope this guy pans out though, Chung hasn't been able to stay healthy and hes a FA after this season.  Love the other picks though, the competition in the front 7 should be awesome in training camp.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    After reading up on him I for one am very happy with the pick of Wilson and don't think it was really a reach. The guy has had some hard character building events to deal with in his life and with a great support system has come out on top. Now he uses them as motivation to excel.
      We always talk about important intangibles are when it comes to players on the field but somehow those same intangibles have less signifcance to players in the draft. Wilson is good physically, smart, versatile, has a strong character and is motivated; what's not to like about that?
       The Wilson pick along with the aquisition of all the other picks I think made for a great 2nd round.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    Who knows, maybe Wilson will be a great player? Selected as high as he was...that should be of what is expected of him. If he turns out to be a great special teams gunner and back up in the secondary, then in my opinion that was a reach and waste of resources.

    I personally don't like the logic of...we filled needs=therefore a good draft. The needs at safety are there because we have drafted wrong at that position (and corner) for years now...Merriweather, Butler, Wheatly, Marshal, Whilite, Hobbs, Dowling. I loved the Chung pick and many of the guys above, but all that I expect out of Chung right now is that he'll tackle well and hit hard - then he will get hurt and be off in coverage.

    The truth is BB the coach could go through a Walmart parking lot and grab three guys to play in an NFL secondary and not let them get exposed. There's a reason why this guy gets guys off the street on Monday - has them play well in a game on Sunday and then cuts them on Tuesday. He's the best coach in the NFL.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]Who knows, maybe Wilson will be a great player? Selected as high as he was...that should be of what is expected of him. If he turns out to be a great special teams gunner and back up in the secondary, then in my opinion that was a reach and waste of resources. I personally don't like the logic of...we filled needs=therefore a good draft. The needs at safety are there because we have drafted wrong at that position (and corner) for years now...Merriweather, Butler, Wheatly, Marshal, Whilite, Hobbs, Dowling. I loved the Chung pick and many of the guys above, but all that I expect out of Chung right now is that he'll tackle well and hit hard - then he will get hurt and be off in coverage. The truth is BB the coach could go through a Walmart parking lot and grab three guys to play in an NFL secondary and not let them get exposed. There's a reason why this guy gets guys off the street on Monday - has them play well in a game on Sunday and then cuts them on Tuesday. He's the best coach in the NFL.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    cant disagree with any of that
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]Who knows, maybe Wilson will be a great player? Selected as high as he was...that should be of what is expected of him. If he turns out to be a great special teams gunner and back up in the secondary, then in my opinion that was a reach and waste of resources. I personally don't like the logic of...we filled needs=therefore a good draft. The needs at safety are there because we have drafted wrong at that position (and corner) for years now...Merriweather, Butler, Wheatly, Marshal, Whilite, Hobbs, Dowling. I loved the Chung pick and many of the guys above, but all that I expect out of Chung right now is that he'll tackle well and hit hard - then he will get hurt and be off in coverage. The truth is BB the coach could go through a Walmart parking lot and grab three guys to play in an NFL secondary and not let them get exposed. There's a reason why this guy gets guys off the street on Monday - has them play well in a game on Sunday and then cuts them on Tuesday. He's the best coach in the NFL.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]


    Hurl, I disagree a bit.  I think in the second round all you can hope for is that the guy will be a solid contributor, not necessarily a great player.  If Wilson ends up being another Slater (a top special teamer), I'd still be happy.  
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    I appreciate the varying perspectives on the pick and actually like this kind of debate.  Perhaps I'm simply a kool-aid addict but I have to believe that there's a reason BB felt this guy was worthy of 2nd round pick.  Time will tell.  I do think that the point that there was a tremendous drop off after the 1st two safeties is well made.  Again, time will tell.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]Who knows, maybe Wilson will be a great player? Selected as high as he was...that should be of what is expected of him. If he turns out to be a great special teams gunner and back up in the secondary, then in my opinion that was a reach and waste of resources. I personally don't like the logic of...we filled needs=therefore a good draft. The needs at safety are there because we have drafted wrong at that position (and corner) for years now...Merriweather, Butler, Wheatly, Marshal, Whilite, Hobbs, Dowling. I loved the Chung pick and many of the guys above, but all that I expect out of Chung right now is that he'll tackle well and hit hard - then he will get hurt and be off in coverage. The truth is BB the coach could go through a Walmart parking lot and grab three guys to play in an NFL secondary and not let them get exposed. There's a reason why this guy gets guys off the street on Monday - has them play well in a game on Sunday and then cuts them on Tuesday. He's the best coach in the NFL.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    mthurl,
    So by your logic.... BB looks at his team and thinks "WE NEED A HARD HITTING SAFETY/CORNERBACK.  My team has been decimated in the def backfield on more occasions than one and I need to find someone who can support the run stop, and can run with a #3 Wr if necessary".   Then BB goes on to further think, " If I can find this hard hitting guy who can hold his own against other Wr's while supporting the run- my defense can get off the field quicker in third down situations".   

    SO Mthurl.... it is your contention if BB is thinking things like that but this wilson kid grades out as the #15 Safety ( a hard hitter who can support run stopping and run with a #3 WR).... IF that is BB's assessment of this kid.... He should not pick him because it is TOO EARLY in the draft?   REALLY?  
    SO what should he pick?... It is your turn.... Whom shall he pick if the thought by BB is that he NEEDS someone that has this man's skillset?

    mthurl.... I think you have been oversold by MEL (Plastic hair) Kiper on  slotting of players.  FOR MY MONEY.... "IF" your scouting shows that this man fills the needs you have.... and he did really well in your visit.... then who the hell cares if I pick him at #48 or wait three more rounds (HOPING THAT NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM).... He is what My team needs.....   The actual thought process of the draft is to FIX MY NEEDS.... not to play footsie and try to outsmart others.

    IF he is what BB deems that he needed last year to be much more efficient on 3rd down stops, and get the Def off the field.... then picking him in that spot was right. 

    YOU and I cannot say it is a reach, as YOU and I do NOT know what BB believed following last year was the greatest need for this defense. 

    Given his first two picks we all assume he thought the lack of a stout rush was there..... It appears he felt that way.   However, how many times last year did this team allow a 3rd down to be converted?  Does this guy assist BB in stopping that?  I heard he was a hard hitter.... and good tackler.... DID Bill want that from a safety.... and deem that although he was in the "GROUP" that was the next 20 safeties (after the cream was gone)....  HE WAS THE BEST FOR WHAT BB NEEDED?

    Just because McShay and Kiper say it is a reach- doesn't mean that it is....  It doesn't mean that, as they are not trying to CRAFT A DEFENSE- they are just ranking players for what they see as good.

     He is not a shutdown Corner.... not what BB wanted with that spot.... none were available anyway. 

    HE is a run stuffing hard hitting able to run with a #3 WR DB....  IF that is what BB feels that he needs most.... then the "REACH" Bullcrap is just that..... BS!

    BB didn't have another pick for 14 picks.... what would have happened if he thought Gronk was a REACH at his spot and decided to wait (not using that pick as it was 5 picks too high)?  DUH!!!!!!!

    THis reach stuff is the venue of the ignorant!  When you are the GM you need to use your resources to work on YOUR Team.... not play games like "Maybe I can wait".
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    My early take on the Wilson pick is that BB liked what he saw in terms of his tackling ability and his ability to be around the ball (recovered a few fumbles on the highlight reels that I've seen). He looks like a very solid tackler, which has been a big need in the NE secondary for a number of years now (though Moore and Chung both excelled at that last year, when healthy).

    He (BB) may very well see Wilson as a guy that he can trust to make the necessary tackles at the safety position (I doubt he'll play much CB). Also, the Gregory signing, I think, was BB's move to upgrade the coverage aspects of that position.

    It should be noted that Wilson had a pretty darn good senior season playing for a program in a major conference (All Big 10 honorable mention).

    We'll see what happens, but I certainly don't hate the pick, even if the consensus view is that NE could have gotten him later in the draft.

     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    The notion that Wilson could have been gotten later in the draft is the purest of speculation.  No one, other than the potential drafters after BB's turn, can possibly know that.  Rationalize, analyze and criticize all you wish, it is speculation and nothing more.

     
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    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive) : mthurl, So by your logic.... BB looks at his team and thinks "WE NEED A HARD HITTING SAFETY/CORNERBACK.  My team has been decimated in the def backfield on more occasions than one and I need to find someone who can support the run stop, and can run with a #3 Wr if necessary".   Then BB goes on to further think, " If I can find this hard hitting guy who can hold his own against other Wr's while supporting the run- my defense can get off the field quicker in third down situations".    SO Mthurl.... it is your contention if BB is thinking things like that but this wilson kid grades out as the #15 Safety ( a hard hitter who can support run stopping and run with a #3 WR).... IF that is BB's assessment of this kid.... He should not pick him because it is TOO EARLY in the draft?   REALLY?   SO what should he pick?... It is your turn.... Whom shall he pick if the thought by BB is that he NEEDS someone that has this man's skillset? mthurl.... I think you have been oversold by MEL (Plastic hair) Kiper on  slotting of players.  FOR MY MONEY.... "IF" your scouting shows that this man fills the needs you have.... and he did really well in your visit.... then who the hell cares if I pick him at #48 or wait three more rounds (HOPING THAT NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM).... He is what My team needs.....   The actual thought process of the draft is to FIX MY NEEDS.... not to play footsie and try to outsmart others. IF he is what BB deems that he needed last year to be much more efficient on 3rd down stops, and get the Def off the field.... then picking him in that spot was right.  YOU and I cannot say it is a reach, as YOU and I do NOT know what BB believed following last year was the greatest need for this defense.  Given his first two picks we all assume he thought the lack of a stout rush was there..... It appears he felt that way.   However, how many times last year did this team allow a 3rd down to be converted?  Does this guy assist BB in stopping that?  I heard he was a hard hitter.... and good tackler.... DID Bill want that from a safety.... and deem that although he was in the "GROUP" that was the next 20 safeties (after the cream was gone)....  HE WAS THE BEST FOR WHAT BB NEEDED? Just because McShay and Kiper say it is a reach- doesn't mean that it is....  It doesn't mean that, as they are not trying to CRAFT A DEFENSE- they are just ranking players for what they see as good.  He is not a shutdown Corner.... not what BB wanted with that spot.... none were available anyway.  HE is a run stuffing hard hitting able to run with a #3 WR DB....  IF that is what BB feels that he needs most.... then the "REACH" Bullcrap is just that..... BS! BB didn't have another pick for 14 picks.... what would have happened if he thought Gronk was a REACH at his spot and decided to wait (not using that pick as it was 5 picks too high)?  DUH!!!!!!! THis reach stuff is the venue of the ignorant!  When you are the GM you need to use your resources to work on YOUR Team.... not play games like "Maybe I can wait".
    Posted by FenwayChuck[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive) : mthurl, So by your logic.... BB looks at his team and thinks "WE NEED A HARD HITTING SAFETY/CORNERBACK.  My team has been decimated in the def backfield on more occasions than one and I need to find someone who can support the run stop, and can run with a #3 Wr if necessary".   Then BB goes on to further think, " If I can find this hard hitting guy who can hold his own against other Wr's while supporting the run- my defense can get off the field quicker in third down situations".    SO Mthurl.... it is your contention if BB is thinking things like that but this wilson kid grades out as the #15 Safety ( a hard hitter who can support run stopping and run with a #3 WR).... IF that is BB's assessment of this kid.... He should not pick him because it is TOO EARLY in the draft?   REALLY?   SO what should he pick?... It is your turn.... Whom shall he pick if the thought by BB is that he NEEDS someone that has this man's skillset? mthurl.... I think you have been oversold by MEL (Plastic hair) Kiper on  slotting of players.  FOR MY MONEY.... "IF" your scouting shows that this man fills the needs you have.... and he did really well in your visit.... then who the hell cares if I pick him at #48 or wait three more rounds (HOPING THAT NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM).... He is what My team needs.....   The actual thought process of the draft is to FIX MY NEEDS.... not to play footsie and try to outsmart others. IF he is what BB deems that he needed last year to be much more efficient on 3rd down stops, and get the Def off the field.... then picking him in that spot was right.  YOU and I cannot say it is a reach, as YOU and I do NOT know what BB believed following last year was the greatest need for this defense.  Given his first two picks we all assume he thought the lack of a stout rush was there..... It appears he felt that way.   However, how many times last year did this team allow a 3rd down to be converted?  Does this guy assist BB in stopping that?  I heard he was a hard hitter.... and good tackler.... DID Bill want that from a safety.... and deem that although he was in the "GROUP" that was the next 20 safeties (after the cream was gone)....  HE WAS THE BEST FOR WHAT BB NEEDED? Just because McShay and Kiper say it is a reach- doesn't mean that it is....  It doesn't mean that, as they are not trying to CRAFT A DEFENSE- they are just ranking players for what they see as good.  He is not a shutdown Corner.... not what BB wanted with that spot.... none were available anyway.  HE is a run stuffing hard hitting able to run with a #3 WR DB....  IF that is what BB feels that he needs most.... then the "REACH" Bullcrap is just that..... BS! BB didn't have another pick for 14 picks.... what would have happened if he thought Gronk was a REACH at his spot and decided to wait (not using that pick as it was 5 picks too high)?  DUH!!!!!!! THis reach stuff is the venue of the ignorant!  When you are the GM you need to use your resources to work on YOUR Team.... not play games like "Maybe I can wait".
    Posted by FenwayChuck[/QUOTE]

    Let's try this again. Sorry for the blank. Fenwaychuck's post hits the nail on the head. We just don't know do we? Love the "venue of the ignorant" line. I hope you don't have it copyrighted son, I'm usin' it.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    My take is I'm glad BB picked alot of defense. We know the offense can score, now with alot of young defenisve talent, BB has bolstered the defense into a stronger unit on another SB run. Awesome.
     
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    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]As always it's absurd to grade any pick at any point before the player has had 2-3 years in the system, and I understand there is a "need" at safety...But I just can't figure out the pick.  Even if this was BBs guy and he was dead set on drafting him, there isn't a scrap of evidence that he was considered anything more than a 5-7 round guy by the few other teams that had him in for visits (a visit is just that, it just shows a desire to gather more info).  I seriously, seriously doubt there was any real chance of him getting poached before round 5; so why not try to trade back and gather more capital while still landing your guy?  Or sit tight and get a Tru Johnson, who offers corner/safety flexibility, though I guess Wilson is a bit more in the Chung mold that the rover type player.  I dunno, I can't say I know alot about this guy so it's not fair to judge, and BB gets the benefit of the doubt.  But on paper this is a headscratcher, there's a difference between drafting for need, and reaching outright, which is why i'm not huge on drafting for need in the first place, it will always trend towards reaching for players who aren't as good as their draft spot.  I hope this guy pans out though, Chung hasn't been able to stay healthy and hes a FA after this season.  Love the other picks though, the competition in the front 7 should be awesome in training camp.
    Posted by andrewmcintosh[/QUOTE]

    Agree

    I think Wilson will be a good player, I trust that they did the research and especially on special teams he will make an impact...

    yet there was no way he was sniffing the top 100, NONE, even if he was brought in for many workouts it was so other teams could maybe to sneak him up into the 5th-6th... 4th rd AT BEST.

    Bill should have taken one of Still, Worthy or Reyes at 48... gotten slightly better value for 62 (held out of either GB's 4th or had them throw in a 6th) then he 100% could have taken Wilson over Bequette. With Jones, Scott, Cunningham and the possibility that Carter comes back I think we were fien at the 4-3DE/3-4OLB Elephant spot. Deaderick can play 4-3 DE and Hightower/Nink can play 3-4 OLB as well.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    Lets all face ONE fact.  Draft picks don't actually have any REAL value.  That's all fakery started by Bill Parcells.  The POTENTIAL for a player to have an impact on YOUR team is what has the value.  He wanted the guy, he was there, and so we took him.  I am betting BB had SOME reason to believe he wouldn't be there later.  I like that we now get after some of those first round guys, but feel kind of weird knowing we are not stockpiling picks.  That's just money in the bank.  
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    The issue isn't what Kiper or McShay think about this guy.  There are multitude of scouting services and reports that one can review on the net, by amateurs, ex scouts, et.  They give a broad opinion and information on players so one can form ones own opinion.  Usually you can find reports that support the WTH moments of BB.  But this time, I have been unable to find any reports that support the pick (and I haven't seen anyone else post one).  The best I found was Walters Football which had him graded the 8th best safety and a 5th round pick and the consensus was that Wilson was a late round pick to UDFA.  As best as I can tell, no one rated him remotely close to a 2nd round pick except BB.  Just saying, but usually if you're the only one seeing things...........

    That said, some are already saying they hope he is as good as Slater, a 5th round pick whom most thought was overdrafted.  Sounds like low expectations for the 48th pick.  If he was a 7th round pick we would be debating if he could beat out Brown/Eber for the last safety/gunner spot. 

    It seems that when BB does something, some expect us to turn off our lying eyes and brains and just accept the move.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive) : Hurl, I disagree a bit.  I think in the second round all you can hope for is that the guy will be a solid contributor, not necessarily a great player.  If Wilson ends up being another Slater (a top special teamer), I'd still be happy.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]


    So you're happy getting 5th round value (Slater) with the 48 pick? Nonsense.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]The notion that Wilson could have been gotten later in the draft is the purest of speculation.  No one, other than the potential drafters after BB's turn, can possibly know that.  Rationalize, analyze and criticize all you wish, it is speculation and nothing more.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

    On the surface this is a good point, but a lot of the posters critical of the pick, having spent a few hours studying the draft, knew exactly what every team was going to do. 
     
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    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive) :

    ... yet there was no way he was sniffing the top 100, NONE, even if he was brought in for many workouts it was so other teams could maybe to sneak him up into the 5th-6th... 4th rd AT BEST. Bill should have ...
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    There has been so much nonsense on this! Please, the above is CLEARLY FALSE ... since he WAS taken in the top 100!!!!

    That is: at least one team had him in the top 100, you can argue that it was unlikely he'd be picked before the 5th by another team, but that'd be just guessing on limited information.

    IF one team graded a player as a second rounder,

    then

    the odds that at least one other team graded him second or third are huge.
     
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    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]The notion that Wilson could have been gotten later in the draft is the purest of speculation.  No one, other than the potential drafters after BB's turn, can possibly know that.  Rationalize, analyze and criticize all you wish, it is speculation and nothing more.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

    +1

     
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    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive) : So you're happy getting 5th round value (Slater) with the 48 pick? Nonsense.
    Posted by sml1210[/QUOTE]


    Yeah, definitely, a pro bowl and all-pro special teamer is okay value at 48.  
     
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    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive) : Let's try this again. Sorry for the blank. Fenwaychuck's post hits the nail on the head. We just don't know do we? Love the "venue of the ignorant" line. I hope you don't have it copyrighted son, I'm usin' it.
    Posted by BoisesBiggestPatsFan[/QUOTE]

    Hey dufus - before you go out and insult someone maybe you should learn how to respond to a post correctly the first time. Aside from that why don't you remove your ugly mug from your avatar?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive) : mthurl, So by your logic.... BB looks at his team and thinks "WE NEED A HARD HITTING SAFETY/CORNERBACK.  My team has been decimated in the def backfield on more occasions than one and I need to find someone who can support the run stop, and can run with a #3 Wr if necessary".   Then BB goes on to further think, " If I can find this hard hitting guy who can hold his own against other Wr's while supporting the run- my defense can get off the field quicker in third down situations".    SO Mthurl.... it is your contention if BB is thinking things like that but this wilson kid grades out as the #15 Safety ( a hard hitter who can support run stopping and run with a #3 WR).... IF that is BB's assessment of this kid.... He should not pick him because it is TOO EARLY in the draft?   REALLY?   SO what should he pick?... It is your turn.... Whom shall he pick if the thought by BB is that he NEEDS someone that has this man's skillset? mthurl.... I think you have been oversold by MEL (Plastic hair) Kiper on  slotting of players.  FOR MY MONEY.... "IF" your scouting shows that this man fills the needs you have.... and he did really well in your visit.... then who the hell cares if I pick him at #48 or wait three more rounds (HOPING THAT NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM).... He is what My team needs.....   The actual thought process of the draft is to FIX MY NEEDS.... not to play footsie and try to outsmart others. IF he is what BB deems that he needed last year to be much more efficient on 3rd down stops, and get the Def off the field.... then picking him in that spot was right.  YOU and I cannot say it is a reach, as YOU and I do NOT know what BB believed following last year was the greatest need for this defense.  Given his first two picks we all assume he thought the lack of a stout rush was there..... It appears he felt that way.   However, how many times last year did this team allow a 3rd down to be converted?  Does this guy assist BB in stopping that?  I heard he was a hard hitter.... and good tackler.... DID Bill want that from a safety.... and deem that although he was in the "GROUP" that was the next 20 safeties (after the cream was gone)....  HE WAS THE BEST FOR WHAT BB NEEDED? Just because McShay and Kiper say it is a reach- doesn't mean that it is....  It doesn't mean that, as they are not trying to CRAFT A DEFENSE- they are just ranking players for what they see as good.  He is not a shutdown Corner.... not what BB wanted with that spot.... none were available anyway.  HE is a run stuffing hard hitting able to run with a #3 WR DB....  IF that is what BB feels that he needs most.... then the "REACH" Bullcrap is just that..... BS! BB didn't have another pick for 14 picks.... what would have happened if he thought Gronk was a REACH at his spot and decided to wait (not using that pick as it was 5 picks too high)?  DUH!!!!!!! THis reach stuff is the venue of the ignorant!  When you are the GM you need to use your resources to work on YOUR Team.... not play games like "Maybe I can wait".
    Posted by FenwayChuck[/QUOTE]

    Let me put it this way seeing how you had a hard time understanding my logic...

    When you draft for need it's generally because you haven't filled that need in previous attempts - which we haven't. So when you say we needed a hard hitting safety and the "hard hitting safeties" are gone, maybe it would be considered a reach to grab a kid that might not even be drafted at all in the second round when there was other good players available. Unless you're saying that there was no good players available at that point?

    Have you ever seen one single ounce of tape on Tavon Wilson? Even one? This guy is about as "hard hitting of a safety" as Ellis Hobbs was (and Ellis never played safety).

    I hate to break it to you, but those bozos sitting there analyzing the draft know just a little something about draft prospects. Bill Belichick offered a job to one of them when he was in Cleveland. Does this mean they're all correct all the time? Nope. And it also means that BB is not correct when selecting players all the time either, in fact most of the guys selecting draftable players are WRONG most of the time!! It's a draft fact..sorry to break that to you.

    Have you ever heard of..Ron Brace, Butler, Dowling, Cunningham, Wheatly, Chad Jackson, Marquise Hill? All these guys were second round busts. So excuse me if I and half the country question us selecting a guy that was not even invited to the NFL combine in the second round. I would venture to guess this kid would of been there later in the draft - and if not oh well. How many times have we traded back and missed on drafting highly rated players? I really doubt missing out on "super reach" would of just killed Bill Belichick and his reputation.

    Don't even mention Gronk - no one thought he was a reach..nobody. The guy was invited to sit in that stupid blue room in NY. If it weren't for the back injury he would of been a first round pick...Tavon is not in that category.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive)

    In Response to Re: Intersting Take On What Pats Did From Round 2 On (Positive):
    [QUOTE]Lets all face ONE fact.  Draft picks don't actually have any REAL value.  That's all fakery started by Bill Parcells.  The POTENTIAL for a player to have an impact on YOUR team is what has the value.  He wanted the guy, he was there, and so we took him.  I am betting BB had SOME reason to believe he wouldn't be there later.  I like that we now get after some of those first round guys, but feel kind of weird knowing we are not stockpiling picks.  That's just money in the bank.  
    Posted by Davedsone[/QUOTE]

    Thankyou!

    This is what gets people bent out of shape about the draft. They spend too much time looking at value charts. The value is that it gives you a chance to grab anyone in college at that moment and sign him to a contract that no one else can match. 

    In the end ... NE grabbed the guy they wanted more than anyone else left in college. 

    This alone makes me expect him to contribute. 

    I for one feel BB must have seen something, and that the kid will be good. Maybe he was a genius discussing the film, and had a lot of intelligence on the field? 

    Maybe BB thinks his flaws are mechanical and can be coached out? 

    Better that than a physical juggernaut with a mouse brain? No?
     
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