Is "ball control" the right strategy when your offense is better than your defense?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxrockursox. Show soxrockursox's posts

    Re: Is


    Iam out  for tonight have a good one all.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     



    I'll give this one more shot then I'm done discussing it. I'll say he didn't play well in the last AFC championship game...and I think you can say that for a lot of players on that team that day. You've listed a lot of games and truthfully the guy has played in probably more big games than any player in the history of the league, and he has played well in most of them, outstanding in others and poor in a few of them. Truthfully the team gets as far as they do most every year because of him. Playing poorly to the best pass defense in the league (Baltimore) is not what you are looking for, but it's to be expected a little bit. Both times he was missing his best player on offense. I've said it before and I'll say it again...he would of been the MVP of Super Bowl 46 if we had won that game. He made two poor decisions in that entire game under some of the best pass rushing you'll see and he did that with his best target far less than 100%. If we win that game he gets the MVP trophy...hands down...no question...money.

     

    People forget that this is a team game...that we are not the team we were when we were winning championships....you tell people that everyday (that we are not and can't be expected to be the talented team we were). In those years Brady made mistakes....big ones, yet they weren't nearly as costly (the interception in the 4th against Carolina comes to mind, so does the drive killing pick against the Eagles). Yet those defenses held their opponents, this one can't. To think a quarterback can just carry his team through three playoff games by himself is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. When he gets help things will change, until that happens we will not win another thing...you can bank on that. This team is not built good enough anymore, it hasn't been for a long time.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, at least you're being somewhat civil for once. 

    While I agree he would have been SB 46's MVP and SB 42's, do you see the common denominator is Brady, 45+ passes from either from 2007 or 2011? He wasn't because he and the offense played poorly over hugh chunks of game, costing us in the end.

    Our 2007 team "wasn't built well"?

    What on earth? What are you talking about?   

    Even if I excuse Brady and the offense for disappearing completely in terms of sustaining drives in the 2006 AFC title game and Caldwell wasn't a #1, Dillon or Maroney couldn't have carried the ball a bit more in that second half, to milk the clock a bit more? Really? We choose to throw 45+ times with the lead?????

    That was a better team than that Colts team, but our offense faded away again in the second half allowing the Colts to come from down by 15 at the half.

    This problem, which is a lot deeper than BB needing to rebuild through the draft almost exclusvely into the 2011 lockout, has been festering all the way back to when we fielded a balanced offense and had guys who owned 3 SB rings as the base of our defense.

    This problem has NOTHING to do with how well our team has been built, because a loaded offense can't even function in the postseason.

    Also, if you use the Gronk excuse, I get to use the Andre Carter excuse or the CHandler Jones and Talib excuse from January.

    Your comments still fail to attack what the problem is. It's either BB, Brady, the OC, or a combination of 2 or all 3. I feel it's BB deferring to what Brady feels comfortable doing. I say that's going to be scaled bick a bit now. 

    1. No one can stomach another poor performance from Brady at home in the title game again.

    2. Scaling it back a bit will help Brady be better than he has been, even if the stats are less.

    How our defense plays has nothing to do with how we can approach a good ball control strategy on offense.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You can have the no Chandler Jones or Carter excuse, it all factors into those games. I do agree we pass too much. I have no problem saying that...I have no problem admitting we are a finesse football team, because we are. I do have a problem pointing the finger on who's fault that is, because you think its Brady's fault and its the guy who built the roster. I think someone has leaned on Brady's arm a little too much do to the personnel of this team as it is constructed, until that changes you'll continue to see a finesse club that gets punched in the face at home during playoff games. I'm tired of it quite frankly. I don't think it's Brady's fault.

    I can guarantee that if Belichick had another back like Dillon he would run his legs off...just like he throws Brady's arm off...does he have that now? I don't think that's on the roster right now. Blount has some talent - despite what the media says about him - he's young enough still and if he's motivated you can run him right between the tackles. The thing is none of our backs are very dynamic, and backs that aren't dynamic get stopped...usually in playoff games against good defenses.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to soxrockursox's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    So now, running the ball 5 times takes 6 minutes off the clock?

    Try 30 seconds!!  That would have eliminated the entire 33 seconds they had left in the game.

    You don't run the ball when you are trying to EXTEND the lead.  They were not trying to eat clock. the D was already gorging on it) they were trying to score.

    They were trying to score because the D was giving up scores at a record breaking pace and the gints scored on 75% of their second half possessions.

    BB had to GIFT them a TD for chripes sake.   Would he have has to do that if they "DID THEIR JOB"?)

    Here's a question for you.

    Is ELI a 75% completion type of QB?

    Is Dan Orlovsky a 4td a game QB?

    Was Sancheze's 100+ QBR the norm for him?

    How bout the Bills ?  Are they a 36 point a game team?

    Want me to go on?

    What did all those have in common?

    They did all that against our 25th-31st ranked D and our 27th ranked ST.

    When was the last time they recovered an onside kick again?

    Bad D, Bad ST and good O is not a recipe for SB wins.

    Ask Joe Flacco.  Ask Drew Brees,.  Ask Big Ben.  Ask Eli.   Ask Brady.

    Ask them if they would have won with a D that couldn't even muster up 1, 3& out and 1 turn over and 1 goal line stand, or one stop not in their territory.  WITH THE LEAD!

     Wanna bet what the answer would be?

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Is

     

    So, in the AFC Championship game against the Ravens, the Pats ran 21 times in the first half and  threw 24 times.  That was a very balanced attack.  Ridley had 13 attempts, Vereen 3, Woodhead 2, and Hernandez and Brady the remaining 3.  Definitely using the lead back, just like Rusty wants. 

     

    The game before, against the Texans, Brady also throws 24 times in the first half, but they run only 12 times. Definitely a pass happy offensive strategy.  Worse, they don't feature a "lead" back.  Ridley gets only five carries, while Vereen and Woodhead get seven.  Brady ends up with 40 pass attempts for the game and one sack (41 pass plays total).  They only run 24 times total, with Ridley getting just 15 carries. 


    Which game ended up better Rusty?  The Ravens game where they did everything you recommend or the Texans game where they did everything you think is wrong?

     

    Case closed.  

     

    Now can we get back on topic?

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    So, in the AFC Championship game against the Ravens, the Pats ran 21 times in the first half and  threw 24 times.  That was a very balanced attack.  Ridley had 13 attempts, Vereen 3, Woodhead 2, and Hernandez and Brady the remaining 3.  Definitely using the lead back, just like Rusty wants. 

     

    The game before, against the Texans, Brady also throws 24 times in the first half, but they run only 12 times. Definitely a pass happy offensive strategy.  Worse, they don't feature a "lead" back.  Ridley gets only five carries, while Vereen and Woodhead get seven.  Brady ends up with 40 pass attempts for the game and one sack (41 pass plays total).  They only run 24 times total, with Ridley getting just 15 carries. 


    Which game ended up better Rusty?  The Ravens game where they did everything you recommend or the Texans game where they did everything you think is wrong?

     

    Case closed.  

     

    Now can we get back on topic?

     



    aaah...the ravens game. The only thing I can remember is that we seemed to get hammered physically in that game.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    As much as the Denver playoff loss in 2005 was just a bad day in the second half with a slew of turnovers (5, total, I believe), we didn't score in the first half. Dillon was on one foot, so we used Faulk as the lead back and we ran mostly shotguns.

    That right there is a great example of why this finesse thing used as the bulk of what we do on offense is a failure. 



    Please Rusty, can we stop just making things up? Here's the play-by-play.  Look at all the shotgun!

     

     

    • 1st Quarter

    1. New England Patriots at 15:00
    2. T.Sauerbrun kicks 73 yards from DEN 30 to NE -3. E.Hobbs to NE 25 for 28 yards (T.Bell).
    3. 1-10-NE 25(14:55) C.Dillon left guard to NE 27 for 2 yards (C.Brown, A.Wilson).
    4. 2-8-NE 27(14:17) T.Brady pass to D.Branch to NE 36 for 9 yards (I.Gold).
    5. 1-10-NE 36(13:36) T.Brady pass to H.Evans pushed ob at NE 39 for 3 yards (D.Foxworth).
    6. 2-7-NE 39(13:12) C.Dillon up the middle to NE 40 for 1 yard (A.Wilson, I.Gold).
    7. 3-6-NE 40(12:24) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NE-S.Neal, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NE 40 - No Play.
    8. 3-11-NE 35(11:58) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Branch (A.Wilson).
    9. 4-11-NE 35(11:52) J.Miller punts 49 yards to DEN 16, Center-L.Paxton. C.Adams to DEN 26 for 10 yards (L.Paxton).
    10. Denver Broncos at 11:41
    11. 1-10-DEN 26(11:41) M.Anderson left guard to DEN 27 for 1 yard (R.Seymour).
    12. 2-9-DEN 27(11:04) PENALTY on DEN-S.Alexander, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 27 - No Play.
    13. 2-14-DEN 22(10:41) J.Plummer pass to A.Lelie pushed ob at DEN 32 for 10 yards (A.Samuel).
    14. 3-4-DEN 32(10:09) M.Anderson right guard to DEN 34 for 2 yards (T.Warren).
    15. 4-2-DEN 34(9:29) T.Sauerbrun punts 41 yards to NE 25, Center-M.Leach. T.Dwight pushed ob at NE 35 for 10 yards (L.Green).
    16. New England Patriots at 09:21
    17. 1-10-NE 35(9:21) T.Brady pass incomplete to C.Fauria.
    18. 2-10-NE 35(9:14) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Branch to NE 44 for 9 yards (N.Ferguson, D.Foxworth).
    19. 3-1-NE 44(8:34) C.Dillon right tackle to DEN 45 for 11 yards (N.Ferguson, D.Foxworth).
    20. 1-10-DEN 45(7:51) PENALTY on NE-L.Mankins, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 45 - No Play.
    21. 1-15-DEN 50(7:33) T.Brady pass to C.Dillon to DEN 41 for 9 yards (I.Gold, D.Foxworth).
    22. 2-6-DEN 41(6:53) K.Faulk up the middle to DEN 37 for 4 yards (I.Gold, N.Ferguson).
    23. 3-2-DEN 37(6:11) K.Faulk right tackle to DEN 36 for 1 yard (A.Wilson).
    24. 4-1-DEN 36(5:30) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete to C.Fauria.
    25. Denver Broncos at 05:27
    26. 1-10-DEN 36(5:27) J.Plummer pass to A.Lelie to DEN 41 for 5 yards (R.Colvin).
    27. 2-5-DEN 41(4:54) J.Plummer up the middle to DEN 47 for 6 yards (T.Bruschi, V.Wilfork).
    28. 1-10-DEN 47(4:10) T.Bell left tackle to 50 for 3 yards (R.Colvin).
    29. 2-7-DEN 50(3:31) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie.
    30. 3-7-DEN 50(3:26) J.Plummer pass to R.Smith to NE 45 for 5 yards (C.Brown, H.Poteat).
    31. 4-2-NE 45(2:45) T.Sauerbrun punts 41 yards to NE 4, Center-M.Leach, downed by DEN-C.Cox.
    32. New England Patriots at 02:34
    33. 1-10-NE 4(2:34) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Branch (A.Wilson).
    34. 2-10-NE 4(2:30) C.Dillon left tackle to NE 9 for 5 yards (J.Lynch).
    35. Timeout #1 by NE at 01:45.
    36. 3-5-NE 9(1:45) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Givens.
    37. 4-5-NE 9(1:42) J.Miller punts 53 yards to DEN 38, Center-L.Paxton. C.Adams to NE 45 for 17 yards (L.Izzo). PENALTY on DEN, Defensive Offside, 4 yards, enforced at NE 9 - No Play.
    38. 4-1-NE 13(1:31) J.Miller punts 50 yards to DEN 37, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by C.Adams.
    39. Denver Broncos at 01:23
    40. 1-10-DEN 37(1:23) J.Plummer pass to A.Lelie to NE 48 for 15 yards (M.Vrabel; E.Hobbs).
    41. 1-10-NE 48(:47) M.Anderson right tackle to NE 44 for 4 yards (W.McGinest).
    42. 2-6-NE 44(:08) M.Anderson up the middle to NE 44 for no gain (R.Colvin).
    43. END QUARTER 1

    • 2nd Quarter

    1. Denver Broncos continues ...
    2. 3-6-NE 44(15:00) J.Plummer pass to R.Smith to NE 29 for 15 yards (E.Hobbs).
    3. 1-10-NE 29(14:16) J.Plummer pass to A.Lelie to NE 26 for 3 yards (A.Samuel).
    4. 2-7-NE 26(14:16) J.Plummer pass incomplete to S.Alexander.
    5. 3-7-NE 26(13:35) J.Plummer pass incomplete to R.Smith. PENALTY on DEN-T.Bell, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NE 26 - No Play.
    6. 3-17-NE 36(13:26) J.Plummer pass to J.Putzier to NE 12 for 24 yards (A.Samuel).
    7. 1-10-NE 12(12:41) T.Bell left tackle to NE 4 for 8 yards (E.Hobbs).
    8. 2-2-NE 4(12:00) T.Bell left tackle to NE 3 for 1 yard (R.Seymour).
    9. 3-1-NE 3(11:32) J.Plummer up the middle to NE 3 for no gain (T.Warren).
    10. 0-0-Timeout #1 by DEN at 10:47.
    11. 4-1-NE 3(10:47) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie.
    12. New England Patriots at 10:43
    13. 1-10-NE 3(10:43) C.Dillon right tackle to NE 5 for 2 yards (A.Wilson).
    14. 2-8-NE 5(10:12) C.Dillon up the middle to NE 7 for 2 yards (DJ.Williams).
    15. 3-6-NE 7(9:28) (Shotgun) PENALTY on NE-L.Mankins, False Start, 3 yards, enforced at NE 7 - No Play.
    16. 3-9-NE 4(9:01) K.Faulk right guard to NE 9 for 5 yards (J.Lynch, C.Brown).
    17. 4-4-NE 9(8:23) J.Miller punts 47 yards to DEN 44, Center-L.Paxton, fair catch by C.Adams.
    18. Denver Broncos at 08:15
    19. 1-10-DEN 44(8:15) J.Plummer pass to M.Anderson to NE 42 for 14 yards (W.McGinest).
    20. 1-10-NE 42(7:35) J.Plummer pass to R.Smith to NE 31 for 11 yards (M.Vrabel).
    21. 1-10-NE 31(6:59) M.Anderson left tackle to NE 30 for 1 yard (T.Bruschi).
    22. 2-9-NE 30(6:16) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie (A.Samuel). Play Challenged by NE and REVERSED. J.Plummer pass intended for A.Lelie INTERCEPTED by A.Samuel at NE 11. A.Samuel ran ob at NE 11 for no gain.
    23. New England Patriots at 06:10
    24. 1-10-NE 11(6:10) T.Brady pass to A.Davis to DEN 38 for 51 yards (C.Bailey).
    25. 1-10-DEN 38(5:25) T.Brady pass incomplete to C.Dillon.
    26. 2-10-DEN 38(5:21) T.Brady pass to D.Branch to DEN 25 for 13 yards (D.Foxworth; A.Wilson).
    27. 1-10-DEN 25(4:41) K.Faulk up the middle to DEN 22 for 3 yards (A.Wilson; DJ.Williams).
    28. 2-7-DEN 22(4:01) T.Brady pass incomplete to B.Watson (T.Pryce).
    29. Timeout #2 by NE at 03:57.
    30. 3-7-DEN 22(3:57) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Branch.
    31. 4-7-DEN 22(3:52) A.Vinatieri 40 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-L.Paxton, Holder-J.Miller.
    32. Denver Broncos at 03:48
    33. A.Vinatieri kicks 66 yards from NE 30 to DEN 4. C.Adams to DEN 33 for 29 yards (M.Stone). PENALTY on NE-J.Sanders, Offside on Free Kick, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 33.
    34. 1-10-DEN 38(3:42) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie (A.Samuel).
    35. 2-10-DEN 38(3:37) J.Plummer pass to J.Putzier to DEN 46 for 8 yards (M.Vrabel, A.Hawkins).
    36. 3-2-DEN 46(2:52) J.Plummer pass incomplete to R.Smith.
    37. 4-2-DEN 46(2:48) T.Sauerbrun punts 48 yards to NE 6, Center-M.Leach, fair catch by T.Dwight.
    38. New England Patriots at 02:41
    39. 1-10-NE 7(2:41) Direction change after punt. (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Givens to NE 28 for 21 yards (C.Bailey).
    40. 1-10-NE 28(2:08) C.Dillon left tackle to NE 36 for 8 yards (D.Foxworth).
    41. Two-Minute Warning
    42. 2-2-NE 36(2:00) K.Faulk up the middle to NE 39 for 3 yards (C.Brown). FUMBLES (C.Brown), RECOVERED by DEN-I.Gold at NE 40. I.Gold to NE 40 for no gain (L.Mankins).
    43. Denver Broncos at 01:51
    44. 1-10-NE 40(1:51) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie. PENALTY on NE-A.Samuel, Defensive Pass Interference, 39 yards, enforced at NE 40 - No Play.
    45. 1-1-NE 1(1:45) M.Anderson left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
    46. J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.
    47. New England Patriots at 01:42
    48. T.Sauerbrun kicks 66 yards from DEN 30 to NE 4. E.Hobbs to NE 36 for 32 yards (T.Sauerbrun). FUMBLES (T.Sauerbrun), RECOVERED by DEN-C.Sapp at NE 39. C.Sapp to NE 39 for no gain (M.Beisel).
    49. Denver Broncos at 01:33
    50. 1-10-NE 39(1:33) J.Plummer pass to J.Putzier to NE 34 for 5 yards (A.Hawkins).
    51. 2-5-NE 34(1:01) T.Bell left tackle to NE 32 for 2 yards (T.Warren).
    52. Timeout #3 by DEN at 00:54.
    53. 3-3-NE 32(:54) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie.
    54. 4-3-NE 32(:48) J.Elam 50 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.
    55. New England Patriots at 00:43
    56. T.Sauerbrun kicks 68 yards from DEN 30 to NE 2. A.Davis to NE 21 for 19 yards (S.Brandon). PENALTY on NE-T.Warren, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NE 21.
    57. 1-10-NE 11(:33) T.Brady kneels to NE 10 for -1 yards (E.Ekuban).
    58. END QUARTER 2

    • 3rd Quarter

    1. Denver Broncos at 15:00
    2. A.Vinatieri kicks 60 yards from NE 30 to DEN 10. C.Adams to DEN 22 for 12 yards (D.Davis).
    3. 1-10-DEN 22(14:57) M.Anderson up the middle to DEN 25 for 3 yards (R.Colvin).
    4. 2-7-DEN 25(14:20) M.Anderson left tackle to DEN 27 for 2 yards (T.Bruschi, R.Seymour).
    5. 3-5-DEN 27(13:36) (Shotgun) J.Plummer pass incomplete to M.Anderson.
    6. 4-5-DEN 27(13:32) T.Sauerbrun punts 58 yards to NE 15, Center-M.Leach. T.Dwight pushed ob at NE 28 for 13 yards (S.Brandon).
    7. New England Patriots at 13:21
    8. 1-10-NE 28(13:21) C.Dillon left tackle to NE 31 for 3 yards (D.Foxworth).
    9. 2-7-NE 31(12:40) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Graham to NE 49 for 18 yards (N.Ferguson).
    10. 1-10-NE 49(11:54) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Branch.
    11. 2-10-NE 49(11:48) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Givens to DEN 37 for 14 yards (D.Foxworth).
    12. 1-10-DEN 37(11:09) K.Faulk up the middle to DEN 32 for 5 yards (A.Wilson).
    13. 2-5-DEN 32(10:36) C.Dillon right guard to DEN 32 for no gain (DJ.Williams).
    14. 3-5-DEN 32(9:51) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Branch to DEN 22 for 10 yards (Da.Williams).
    15. 1-10-DEN 22(9:17) K.Faulk up the middle to DEN 20 for 2 yards (M.Coleman).
    16. 2-8-DEN 20(8:37) T.Brady pass to D.Givens to DEN 14 for 6 yards (DJ.Williams).
    17. 3-2-DEN 14(7:55) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Branch.
    18. 4-2-DEN 14(7:53) A.Vinatieri 32 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-L.Paxton, Holder-J.Miller.
    19. Denver Broncos at 07:49
    20. A.Vinatieri kicks 69 yards from NE 30 to DEN 1. Da.Williams pushed ob at DEN 20 for 19 yards (L.Izzo).
    21. 1-10-DEN 20(7:43) J.Plummer pass incomplete to J.Putzier (A.Hawkins).
    22. 2-10-DEN 20(7:37) J.Plummer pass incomplete to A.Lelie (A.Samuel).
    23. 3-10-DEN 20(7:30) J.Plummer pass to R.Smith to DEN 39 for 19 yards (E.Hobbs).
    24. 1-10-DEN 39(6:46) M.Anderson left guard to DEN 41 for 2 yards (W.McGinest).
    25. 2-8-DEN 41(6:05) J.Plummer up the middle to DEN 43 for 2 yards (T.Warren, M.Vrabel).
    26. 3-6-DEN 43(5:22) (Shotgun) J.Plummer sacked at DEN 36 for -7 yards (sack split by R.Seymour and J.Green).
    27. 4-13-DEN 36(4:51) T.Sauerbrun punts 56 yards to NE 8, Center-M.Leach. T.Dwight to NE 22 for 14 yards (C.Sapp).
    28. New England Patriots at 04:39
    29. 1-10-NE 22(4:39) T.Brady pass to T.Brown to DEN 45 for 33 yards (Da.Williams).
    30. 1-10-DEN 45(3:54) T.Brady pass to D.Branch pushed ob at DEN 19 for 26 yards (J.Lynch).
    31. 1-10-DEN 19(3:20) T.Brady pass to D.Givens to DEN 10 for 9 yards (A.Wilson).
    32. 2-1-DEN 10(2:46) C.Dillon left tackle to DEN 5 for 5 yards (I.Gold).
    33. 1-5-DEN 5(2:12) PENALTY on NE-D.Branch, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 5 - No Play.
    34. 1-10-DEN 10(1:45) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Branch to DEN 5 for 5 yards (D.Foxworth).
    35. 2-5-DEN 5(1:06) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Givens.
    36. 3-5-DEN 5(1:03) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass intended for T.Brown INTERCEPTED by C.Bailey at DEN -1. C.Bailey to NE 1 for 100 yards (B.Watson). FUMBLES (B.Watson), ball out of bounds at NE 1. Play Challenged by NE and Upheld. (Timeout #1 by NE at 00:47.)
    37. Denver Broncos at 00:47
    38. 1-1-NE 1(:47) M.Anderson left end for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
    39. J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.
    40. New England Patriots at 00:43
    41. T.Sauerbrun kicks 70 yards from DEN 30 to NE 0. E.Hobbs to NE 29 for 29 yards (C.Sapp).
    42. 1-10-NE 29(:37) T.Brady pass to D.Branch pushed ob at NE 37 for 8 yards (J.Lynch).
    43. 2-2-NE 37(:16) C.Dillon left tackle to NE 38 for 1 yard (I.Gold).
    44. END QUARTER 3

    • 4th Quarter

    1. New England Patriots continues ...
    2. 3-1-NE 38(15:00) C.Dillon right end pushed ob at DEN 45 for 17 yards (N.Ferguson).
    3. 1-10-DEN 45(14:33) T.Brady pass incomplete to A.Davis.
    4. 2-10-DEN 45(14:28) T.Brady pass to K.Faulk ran ob at DEN 31 for 14 yards.
    5. 1-10-DEN 31(13:56) T.Brady pass to K.Faulk to DEN 25 for 6 yards (A.Wilson).
    6. 2-4-DEN 25(13:17) C.Dillon up the middle to DEN 25 for no gain (A.Wilson).
    7. 0-0-Timeout #1 by DEN at 12:57.
    8. 3-4-DEN 25(12:57) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete to T.Brown.
    9. 4-4-DEN 25(12:53) A.Vinatieri 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-L.Paxton, Holder-J.Miller.
    10. Denver Broncos at 12:48
    11. 1-10-DEN 33(12:48) J.Plummer pass incomplete to R.Smith.
    12. 2-10-DEN 33(12:41) J.Plummer pass to A.Lelie ran ob at 50 for 17 yards.
    13. 1-10-DEN 50(12:07) M.Anderson right tackle to NE 44 for 6 yards (T.Warren).
    14. 2-4-NE 44(11:24) M.Anderson left tackle to NE 42 for 2 yards (T.Warren).
    15. Timeout #2 by DEN at 10:40.
    16. 3-2-NE 42(10:40) J.Plummer sacked at NE 42 for 0 yards (sack split by R.Seymour and V.Wilfork). Penalty on DEN-T.Nalen, Offensive Holding, declined.
    17. 4-2-NE 42(10:21) T.Sauerbrun punts 30 yards to NE 12, Center-M.Leach. T.Brown MUFFS catch, RECOVERED by DEN-M.Leach at NE 15. M.Leach to NE 15 for no gain (C.Brown).
    18. Denver Broncos at 10:10
    19. 1-10-NE 15(10:10) M.Anderson up the middle to NE 12 for 3 yards (T.Bruschi).
    20. 2-7-NE 12(9:30) M.Anderson right tackle to NE 4 for 8 yards (J.Green).
    21. 1-4-NE 4(8:43) J.Plummer pass to R.Smith for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
    22. J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer. PENALTY on DEN-D.Veal, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NE 2 - No Play.
    23. J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.
    24. New England Patriots at 08:38
    25. T.Sauerbrun kicks 68 yards from DEN 30 to NE 2. A.Davis to NE 23 for 21 yards (K.Paymah).
    26. 1-10-NE 23(8:33) T.Brady pass to D.Branch pushed ob at DEN 4 for 73 yards (A.Wilson; J.Lynch).
    27. 1-4-DEN 4(8:09) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Givens for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
    28. A.Vinatieri extra point is GOOD, Center-L.Paxton, Holder-J.Miller.
    29. Denver Broncos at 08:05
    30. A.Vinatieri kicks 60 yards from NE 30 to DEN 10. C.Adams to DEN 23 for 13 yards (T.Banta-Cain).
    31. 1-10-DEN 23(8:00) J.Plummer pass to R.Smith to NE 35 for 42 yards (E.Wilson, M.Vrabel).
    32. 1-10-NE 35(7:14) M.Anderson right tackle to NE 29 for 6 yards (A.Hawkins).
    33. 2-4-NE 29(6:28) M.Anderson right tackle to NE 26 for 3 yards (W.McGinest).
    34. 3-1-NE 26(5:46) M.Anderson right tackle to NE 24 for 2 yards (T.Warren).
    35. 1-10-NE 24(5:02) T.Bell left guard to NE 24 for no gain (R.Seymour, V.Wilfork).
    36. 2-10-NE 24(4:18) J.Plummer up the middle to NE 21 for 3 yards (T.Warren).
    37. 3-7-NE 21(3:30) T.Bell up the middle to NE 16 for 5 yards (W.McGinest, M.Vrabel).
    38. Timeout #2 by NE at 03:24.
    39. Timeout #3 by DEN at 03:24.
    40. 4-2-NE 16(3:24) J.Elam 34 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-M.Leach, Holder-J.Plummer.
    41. New England Patriots at 03:20
    42. T.Sauerbrun kicks 70 yards from DEN 30 to NE 0. A.Davis to NE 21 for 21 yards (P.Chukwurah). PENALTY on NE-D.Davis, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at NE 21.
    43. 1-10-NE 11(3:14) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Givens.
    44. 2-10-NE 11(3:08) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass intended for A.Davis INTERCEPTED by J.Lynch at DEN 34. J.Lynch to DEN 39 for 5 yards (A.Davis).
    45. Denver Broncos at 02:56
    46. 1-10-DEN 39(2:56) M.Anderson up the middle to DEN 43 for 4 yards (W.McGinest).
    47. 2-6-DEN 43(2:15) M.Anderson right tackle to NE 39 for 18 yards (E.Wilson).
    48. Two-Minute Warning
    49. 1-10-NE 39(2:00) J.Plummer kneels to NE 40 for -1 yards.
    50. 2-11-NE 40(1:18) J.Plummer kneels to NE 41 for -1 yards.
    51. 3-12-NE 41(:38) J.Plummer kneels to NE 42 for -1 yards.
    52. END GAME
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Even if I excuse Brady and the offense for disappearing completely in terms of sustaining drives in the 2006 AFC title game and Caldwell wasn't a #1, Dillon or Maroney couldn't have carried the ball a bit more in that second half, to milk the clock a bit more? Really? We choose to throw 45+ times with the lead?????

    TB threw 34 times in that game and they ran 24 times.  The D gave up 32 points IN A

    HALF!

    Stop with your lies!

     

    13 is not 19

    34 is not 45

    27 is not 35

    1200 is not 1500

    And....you are not very smart or honest or both.


    ___________________________________________
                                  
                             

     



    Please post the length of each drive in that second half.  This discussion is about ball control, not you trying to deflect again and again.

     

    "Stay on topic"

    They also didn't establish the run with Brady under Center. They did it from the shotgun.

    FAIL

    I've said this a million times. You can't establish the run with draw plays. 

    Try again.

    [/QUOTE]


    They didn't run because BJGE WAS INEFFECTIVE!  Negative runs put them in precarious situations, 2nd and longs and 3rd and longs.  Wasn't there a negative run right before the Int?  yes, I seem to think there was.

    There was also a 6 minute drive in the second half if I remember that correctly.

    I also seem to remember the ToP being 2/1 right before that drive.  30 minutes to 15.

    Wow!   The gints ate up 30 minutes in 6 offensive possessions!!!  (isn't that supposed to be 12?)  How pitiful is THAT?

    It's not like they didn't actually try to eat some clock.  But I guess you would have preferred they run the ball with 2 possessions left and the score nearly tied with the gints just having to score one more time to win.  Too bad BB didn't trust BGJE not to have any more negative runs, HUH?  It's also too bad the receivers dropped 4 passes in a row and the rest of the NFL drooled over our receivers.  LOL

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    I don't think my premise applies well with this past year's loss to Baltimore.  My only complaint there is they ran Ridely off draws out of the shotgun.

     



    Here's the play by play.  I'm just not seeing a lot of Ridley draws out of the shotgun. 

     

    1. 1st Quarter
      1. New England Patriots at 15:00
      2. 9-J.Tucker kicks 65 yards from BAL 35 to end zone, Touchback.
      3. 1-10-NE 20(15:00) NE 12-Brady 24th career postseason start, ties Brett Favre for most ever by a QB. 22-S.Ridley right guard to NE 25 for 5 yards (92-H.Ngata; 99-P.Kruger).
      4. 2-5-NE 25(14:39) (No Huddle) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 81-A.Hernandez to NE 34 for 9 yards (59-D.Ellerbe; 24-C.Graham).
      5. 1-10-NE 34(14:17) (No Huddle) 22-S.Ridley left tackle to NE 37 for 3 yards (52-R.Lewis).
      6. 2-7-NE 37(13:40) (No Huddle) 22-S.Ridley left tackle to NE 42 for 5 yards (59-D.Ellerbe; 29-C.Williams).
      7. 3-2-NE 42(13:03) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to 83-W.Welker.
      8. Timeout #1 by BAL at 12:57.
      9. 4-2-NE 42(12:57) 14-Z.Mesko punts 45 yards to BAL 13, Center-48-D.Aiken, fair catch by 12-J.Jones.
      10. Baltimore Ravens at 12:48
      11. 1-10-BAL 13(12:48) 27-R.Rice right guard to BAL 15 for 2 yards (55-B.Spikes).
      12. 2-8-BAL 15(12:17) (No Huddle) 27-R.Rice left guard to BAL 19 for 4 yards (55-B.Spikes; 50-R.Ninkovich).
      13. 3-4-BAL 19(11:41) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short left to 27-R.Rice.
      14. 4-4-BAL 19(11:37) 4-S.Koch punts 50 yards to NE 31, Center-46-M.Cox. 83-W.Welker to NE 44 for 13 yards (16-D.Reed). Penalty on NE-25-P.Chung, Offensive Holding, declined. PENALTY on NE-31-A.Talib, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NE 31.
      15. New England Patriots at 11:24
      16. 1-10-NE 21(11:24) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 85-B.Lloyd to NE 29 for 8 yards (29-C.Williams).
      17. 2-2-NE 29(11:00) 22-S.Ridley right guard to NE 32 for 3 yards (55-T.Suggs).
      18. 1-10-NE 32(10:28) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 81-A.Hernandez to NE 40 for 8 yards (59-D.Ellerbe; 52-R.Lewis).
      19. 2-2-NE 40(9:51) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short right to 83-W.Welker.
      20. 3-2-NE 40(9:48) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 85-B.Lloyd to BAL 47 for 13 yards (20-E.Reed).
      21. 1-10-BAL 47(9:14) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to 85-B.Lloyd [59-D.Ellerbe].
      22. 2-10-BAL 47(9:08) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 81-A.Hernandez to BAL 37 for 10 yards (96-M.Kemoeatu).
      23. 1-10-BAL 37(8:33) 22-S.Ridley left tackle to BAL 36 for 1 yard (55-T.Suggs; 52-R.Lewis).
      24. 2-9-BAL 36(8:12) (No Huddle) 12-T.Brady pass deep left to 85-B.Lloyd to BAL 20 for 16 yards (29-C.Williams). NE 12-Brady now has 5,693 career postseason passing yards, passing Peyton Manning for 3rd all-time.
      25. 1-10-BAL 20(7:48) (No Huddle) 22-S.Ridley right guard to BAL 18 for 2 yards (99-P.Kruger; 96-M.Kemoeatu).
      26. 2-8-BAL 18(7:24) (No Huddle) 81-A.Hernandez left end to BAL 12 for 6 yards (24-C.Graham). reverse
      27. 3-2-BAL 12(6:59) (No Huddle) 22-S.Ridley right guard to BAL 12 for no gain (24-C.Graham).
      28. 4-2-BAL 12(6:25) 3-S.Gostkowski 31 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-48-D.Aiken, Holder-14-Z.Mesko.
      29. BAL 0    NE 3    Plays: 13    Possession: 5:03
      30. Baltimore Ravens at 06:21
      31. 3-S.Gostkowski kicks 54 yards from NE 35 to BAL 11. 12-J.Jones to BAL 20 for 9 yards (24-K.Arrington). PENALTY on BAL-56-J.Bynes, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at BAL 20.
      32. 1-10-BAL 10(6:16) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 44-V.Leach to BAL 27 for 17 yards (28-S.Gregory).
      33. 1-10-BAL 27(5:52) 27-R.Rice up the middle to BAL 30 for 3 yards (94-J.Francis).
      34. 2-7-BAL 30(5:21) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete deep left to 81-A.Boldin.
      35. 3-7-BAL 30(5:15) (Shotgun) PENALTY on BAL-27-R.Rice, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at BAL 30 - No Play.
      36. 3-12-BAL 25(5:15) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short left to 81-A.Boldin (31-A.Talib). NE-31-A.Talib was injured during the play.
      37. 4-12-BAL 25(5:10) 4-S.Koch punts 55 yards to NE 20, Center-46-M.Cox. 83-W.Welker pushed ob at NE 33 for 13 yards (35-A.Allen).
      38. New England Patriots at 05:00
      39. 1-10-NE 33(5:00) 34-S.Vereen up the middle to NE 40 for 7 yards (52-R.Lewis).
      40. 2-3-NE 40(4:38) (No Huddle) 34-S.Vereen right tackle to NE 41 for 1 yard (92-H.Ngata).
      41. 3-2-NE 41(3:57) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 81-A.Hernandez to NE 49 for 8 yards (52-R.Lewis). PENALTY on BAL-52-R.Lewis, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at NE 49.
      42. 1-10-BAL 36(3:35) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short right to 81-A.Hernandez [97-A.Jones].
      43. 2-10-BAL 36(3:30) 34-S.Vereen right end to BAL 35 for 1 yard (31-B.Pollard).
      44. 3-9-BAL 35(2:53) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short right to 85-B.Lloyd.
      45. 4-9-BAL 35(2:48) 14-Z.Mesko punts 27 yards to BAL 8, Center-48-D.Aiken, fair catch by 20-E.Reed.
      46. Baltimore Ravens at 02:40
      47. 1-10-BAL 8(2:40) 30-B.Pierce left tackle to BAL 19 for 11 yards (37-A.Dennard).
      48. 1-10-BAL 19(2:11) 30-B.Pierce left end to BAL 22 for 3 yards (50-R.Ninkovich).
      49. 2-7-BAL 22(1:40) (No Huddle) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to 84-E.Dickson.
      50. 3-7-BAL 22(1:35) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete deep right to 88-D.Pitta.
      51. 4-7-BAL 22(1:28) 4-S.Koch punts 59 yards to NE 19, Center-46-M.Cox. 83-W.Welker to NE 47 for 28 yards (50-A.McClellan).
      52. New England Patriots at 01:14
      53. 1-10-NE 47(1:14) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to 34-S.Vereen [92-H.Ngata].
      54. 2-10-NE 47(1:05) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 81-A.Hernandez to BAL 45 for 8 yards (52-R.Lewis; 55-T.Suggs).
      55. 3-2-BAL 45(:32) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 85-B.Lloyd.
      56. 4-2-BAL 45(:26) 14-Z.Mesko punts 35 yards to BAL 10, Center-48-D.Aiken, fair catch by 20-E.Reed.
      57. Baltimore Ravens at 00:19
      58. 1-10-BAL 10(:19) 27-R.Rice up the middle to BAL 13 for 3 yards (54-D.Hightower).
      59. END QUARTER 1
      60. BAL 7    NE 3    Plays: 13    Possession: 5:51
    2. 2nd Quarter
      1. Baltimore Ravens continues ...
      2. 2-7-BAL 13(15:00) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 44-V.Leach to BAL 18 for 5 yards (51-J.Mayo). FUMBLES (51-J.Mayo), ball out of bounds at BAL 16.
      3. 3-4-BAL 16(14:35) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 88-D.Pitta to BAL 33 for 17 yards (28-S.Gregory; 24-K.Arrington).
      4. 1-10-BAL 33(14:05) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 27-R.Rice up the middle to BAL 35 for 2 yards (23-M.Cole; 50-R.Ninkovich).
      5. 2-8-BAL 35(13:34) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 27-R.Rice to BAL 46 for 11 yards (55-B.Spikes).
      6. 1-10-BAL 46(12:59) (No Huddle) 27-R.Rice left end to BAL 48 for 2 yards (50-R.Ninkovich).
      7. 2-8-BAL 48(12:19) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 30-B.Pierce to NE 44 for 8 yards (24-K.Arrington).
      8. 1-10-NE 44(11:44) (No Huddle) 30-B.Pierce right end pushed ob at NE 40 for 4 yards (37-A.Dennard).
      9. 2-6-NE 40(11:24) (No Huddle) 5-J.Flacco pass deep left to 82-T.Smith to NE 15 for 25 yards (24-K.Arrington) [75-V.Wilfork].
      10. 1-10-NE 15(10:50) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 27-R.Rice left guard to NE 7 for 8 yards (32-D.McCourty; 24-K.Arrington).
      11. 2-2-NE 7(10:15) (No Huddle) 27-R.Rice right guard to NE 2 for 5 yards (55-B.Spikes).
      12. 1-2-NE 2(9:38) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short left to 88-D.Pitta.
      13. 2-2-NE 2(9:33) 27-R.Rice left end for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. NE-25-P.Chung was injured during the play.
      14. 0-0-NE 29-J.Tucker extra point is GOOD, Center-46-M.Cox, Holder-4-S.Koch.
      15. New England Patriots at 09:28
      16. 9-J.Tucker kicks 66 yards from BAL 35 to NE -1. 32-D.McCourty to NE 21 for 22 yards (23-C.Brown; 37-S.Considine).
      17. 1-10-NE 21(9:22) (Shotgun) 22-S.Ridley right guard to NE 24 for 3 yards (96-M.Kemoeatu). PENALTY on BAL-59-D.Ellerbe, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at NE 24.
      18. 1-10-NE 39(9:03) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 83-W.Welker to NE 46 for 7 yards (59-D.Ellerbe).
      19. 2-3-NE 46(8:41) (No Huddle) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 85-B.Lloyd to NE 49 for 3 yards (52-R.Lewis; 31-B.Pollard).
      20. 1-10-NE 49(8:01) 22-S.Ridley up the middle to BAL 44 for 7 yards (97-A.Jones; 96-M.Kemoeatu).
      21. 2-3-BAL 44(7:37) (No Huddle) 22-S.Ridley up the middle to BAL 40 for 4 yards (96-M.Kemoeatu; 24-C.Graham).
      22. 1-10-BAL 40(6:58) (No Huddle) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 83-W.Welker to BAL 16 for 24 yards (55-T.Suggs).
      23. 1-10-BAL 16(6:29) (No Huddle) 22-S.Ridley right guard to BAL 8 for 8 yards (52-R.Lewis; 24-C.Graham).
      24. 2-2-BAL 8(5:55) (No Huddle) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 81-A.Hernandez to BAL 1 for 7 yards (23-C.Brown).
      25. 1-1-BAL 1(5:13) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 85-B.Lloyd (31-B.Pollard).
      26. 2-1-BAL 1(5:09) 63-D.Connolly and 77-N.Solder reported in as eligible. 22-S.Ridley up the middle to BAL 1 for no gain (97-A.Jones; 55-T.Suggs).
      27. 3-1-BAL 1(4:22) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 83-W.Welker for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
      28. 3-S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-48-D.Aiken, Holder-14-Z.Mesko.
      29. BAL 7    NE 10    Plays: 11    Possession: 5:10
      30. Baltimore Ravens at 04:18
      31. 3-S.Gostkowski kicks 60 yards from NE 35 to BAL 5. 12-J.Jones to BAL 14 for 9 yards (24-K.Arrington).
      32. 1-10-BAL 14(4:14) 30-B.Pierce right end ran ob at BAL 13 for -1 yards.
      33. 2-11-BAL 13(3:46) 30-B.Pierce left end to BAL 18 for 5 yards (51-J.Mayo).
      34. 3-6-BAL 18(3:10) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco sacked at BAL 14 for -4 yards (50-R.Ninkovich).
      35. 4-10-BAL 14(2:41) 4-S.Koch punts 44 yards to NE 42, Center-46-M.Cox. 83-W.Welker ran ob at BAL 43 for 15 yards.
      36. New England Patriots at 02:32
      37. 1-10-BAL 43(2:32) 22-S.Ridley left tackle to BAL 38 for 5 yards (24-C.Graham; 99-P.Kruger).
      38. Two-Minute Warning
      39. 2-5-BAL 38(2:00) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady scrambles left guard to BAL 36 for 2 yards (52-R.Lewis).
      40. 3-3-BAL 36(1:26) (Shotgun) 39-D.Woodhead up the middle to BAL 34 for 2 yards (55-T.Suggs; 99-P.Kruger).
      41. 4-1-BAL 34(:54) (Shotgun) Direct snap to 39-D.Woodhead. 39-D.Woodhead left guard to BAL 27 for 7 yards (24-C.Graham; 31-B.Pollard).
      42. Timeout #1 by NE at 00:44.
      43. 1-10-BAL 27(:44) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to 81-A.Hernandez.
      44. 2-10-BAL 27(:40) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to 84-D.Branch.
      45. 3-10-BAL 27(:34) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 81-A.Hernandez to BAL 10 for 17 yards (22-J.Smith).
      46. Timeout #2 by NE at 00:26.
      47. 1-10-BAL 10(:26) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady scrambles left tackle to BAL 7 for 3 yards (20-E.Reed).
      48. Timeout #3 by NE at 00:04.
      49. 2-7-BAL 7(:04) 3-S.Gostkowski 25 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-48-D.Aiken, Holder-14-Z.Mesko.
      50. BAL 7    NE 13    Plays: 9    Possession: 2:32
      1. 3rd Quarter
        1. Baltimore Ravens at 15:00
        2. 3-S.Gostkowski kicks 54 yards from NE 35 to BAL 11. 12-J.Jones to BAL 25 for 14 yards (43-N.Ebner).
        3. 1-10-BAL 25(14:56) 27-R.Rice right guard to BAL 26 for 1 yard (75-V.Wilfork; 71-B.Deaderick).
        4. 2-9-BAL 26(14:22) (No Huddle) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete deep middle to 82-T.Smith [51-J.Mayo].
        5. 3-9-BAL 26(14:15) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep left to 81-A.Boldin to NE 48 for 26 yards (32-D.McCourty).
        6. 1-10-NE 48(13:31) 27-R.Rice up the middle to 50 for -2 yards (55-B.Spikes; 51-J.Mayo).
        7. 2-12-(13:05) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to 82-T.Smith.
        8. 3-12-(13:00) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short left to 82-T.Smith.
        9. 4-12-(12:55) 4-S.Koch punts 41 yards to NE 9, Center-46-M.Cox, fair catch by 83-W.Welker.
        10. New England Patriots at 12:46
        11. 1-10-NE 9(12:46) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 85-B.Lloyd to NE 15 for 6 yards (29-C.Williams). NE 12-Brady now has 5,774 career postseason passing yards, passing Joe Montana for 2nd all-time.
        12. 2-4-NE 15(12:14) 22-S.Ridley left guard to NE 20 for 5 yards (52-R.Lewis).
        13. 1-10-NE 20(11:45) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 81-A.Hernandez to NE 25 for 5 yards (29-C.Williams; 31-B.Pollard).
        14. 2-5-NE 25(11:21) (No Huddle) 12-T.Brady pass deep right to 83-W.Welker to NE 49 for 24 yards (31-B.Pollard; 24-C.Graham). PENALTY on BAL-31-B.Pollard, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at NE 49.
        15. 1-10-BAL 36(11:04) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to 81-A.Hernandez.
        16. 2-10-BAL 36(10:57) (Shotgun) 39-D.Woodhead up the middle to BAL 34 for 2 yards (92-H.Ngata).
        17. 3-8-BAL 34(10:15) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 83-W.Welker.
        18. 4-8-BAL 34(10:11) 14-Z.Mesko punts 21 yards to BAL 13, Center-48-D.Aiken, fair catch by 20-E.Reed.
        19. Baltimore Ravens at 10:03
        20. 1-10-BAL 13(10:03) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to 17-T.Doss. PENALTY on NE-37-A.Dennard, Defensive Pass Interference, 15 yards, enforced at BAL 13 - No Play.
        21. 1-10-BAL 28(9:57) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete deep left to 17-T.Doss (24-K.Arrington).
        22. 2-10-BAL 28(9:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 88-D.Pitta to 50 for 22 yards (32-D.McCourty).
        23. 1-10-(9:24) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete deep left to 82-T.Smith.
        24. 2-10-(9:16) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 27-R.Rice to NE 35 for 15 yards (32-D.McCourty).
        25. 1-10-NE 35(8:41) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short left to 82-T.Smith to NE 30 for 5 yards (23-M.Cole).
        26. 2-5-NE 30(8:10) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 30-B.Pierce left guard to NE 22 for 8 yards (51-J.Mayo).
        27. 1-10-NE 22(7:40) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete deep right to 12-J.Jones.
        28. 2-10-NE 22(7:34) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 81-A.Boldin to NE 10 for 12 yards (23-M.Cole).
        29. 1-10-NE 10(6:54) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 88-D.Pitta to NE 5 for 5 yards (51-J.Mayo).
        30. 2-5-NE 5(6:14) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 88-D.Pitta for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
        31. 9-J.Tucker extra point is GOOD, Center-46-M.Cox, Holder-4-S.Koch.
        32. BAL 14    NE 13    Plays: 10    Possession: 3:49
        33. New England Patriots at 06:14
        34. 9-J.Tucker kicks 64 yards from BAL 35 to NE 1. 32-D.McCourty to NE 25 for 24 yards (37-S.Considine).
        35. 1-10-NE 25(6:06) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 83-W.Welker to NE 33 for 8 yards (59-D.Ellerbe).
        36. 2-2-NE 33(5:28) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 85-B.Lloyd.
        37. 3-2-NE 33(5:24) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 39-D.Woodhead to NE 37 for 4 yards (24-C.Graham). PENALTY on NE-77-N.Solder, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NE 33 - No Play.
        38. 3-12-NE 23(5:01) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 81-A.Hernandez.
        39. 4-12-NE 23(4:56) 14-Z.Mesko punts 51 yards to BAL 26, Center-48-D.Aiken. 12-J.Jones to BAL 37 for 11 yards (23-M.Cole).
        40. Baltimore Ravens at 04:46
        41. 1-10-BAL 37(4:46) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 27-R.Rice to BAL 33 for -4 yards (54-D.Hightower).
        42. 2-14-BAL 33(4:10) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep right to 82-T.Smith to NE 44 for 23 yards (32-D.McCourty).
        43. 1-10-NE 44(3:30) (Shotgun) 27-R.Rice left guard to NE 40 for 4 yards (55-B.Spikes; 51-J.Mayo). PENALTY on NE, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at NE 44 - No Play.
        44. 1-5-NE 39(3:14) (Shotgun) 27-R.Rice up the middle to NE 36 for 3 yards (55-B.Spikes; 51-J.Mayo).
        45. 2-2-NE 36(2:38) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete deep right to 82-T.Smith.
        46. 3-2-NE 36(2:32) (Shotgun) 30-B.Pierce right end ran ob at NE 25 for 11 yards.
        47. 1-10-NE 25(2:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 30-B.Pierce right guard to NE 19 for 6 yards (55-B.Spikes; 50-R.Ninkovich).
        48. 2-4-NE 19(1:35) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 88-D.Pitta to NE 13 for 6 yards (51-J.Mayo).
        49. 1-10-NE 13(:59) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short left to 81-A.Boldin to NE 5 for 8 yards (23-M.Cole; 32-D.McCourty).
        50. 2-2-NE 5(:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 27-R.Rice right guard to NE 3 for 2 yards (58-T.White; 50-R.Ninkovich).
        51. END QUARTER 3
        52. BAL 21    NE 13    Plays: 10    Possession: 4:50
      2. 4th Quarter
        1. Baltimore Ravens continues ...
        2. 1-3-NE 3(15:00) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 81-A.Boldin for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
        3. 0-0-NE 29-J.Tucker extra point is GOOD, Center-46-M.Cox, Holder-4-S.Koch.
        4. New England Patriots at 14:56
        5. 9-J.Tucker kicks 63 yards from BAL 35 to NE 2. 32-D.McCourty to NE 16 for 14 yards (37-S.Considine).
        6. 1-10-NE 16(14:49) 22-S.Ridley up the middle to NE 25 for 9 yards (52-R.Lewis; 31-B.Pollard).
        7. 2-1-NE 25(14:18) 22-S.Ridley left guard to NE 25 for no gain (55-T.Suggs; 52-R.Lewis).
        8. 3-1-NE 25(13:45) 22-S.Ridley left tackle to NE 27 for 2 yards (52-R.Lewis).
        9. 1-10-NE 27(13:17) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 85-B.Lloyd ran ob at NE 39 for 12 yards.
        10. 1-10-NE 39(12:55) (Shotgun) 22-S.Ridley right tackle to NE 47 for 8 yards (31-B.Pollard). FUMBLES (31-B.Pollard), RECOVERED by BAL-97-A.Jones at NE 47. 97-A.Jones to NE 47 for no gain (62-R.Wendell). NE-22-S.Ridley was injured during the play. The Replay Assistant challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was Upheld.
        11. Baltimore Ravens at 12:46
        12. 1-10-NE 47(12:46) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass deep left to 82-T.Smith to NE 31 for 16 yards (24-K.Arrington).
        13. 1-10-NE 31(12:18) (No Huddle) 5-J.Flacco scrambles left end ran ob at NE 17 for 14 yards.
        14. 1-10-NE 17(11:54) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short middle to 12-J.Jones to NE 11 for 6 yards (55-B.Spikes).
        15. 2-4-NE 11(11:19) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short right to 81-A.Boldin for 11 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
        16. 9-J.Tucker extra point is GOOD, Center-46-M.Cox, Holder-4-S.Koch.
        17. BAL 28    NE 13    Plays: 4    Possession: 1:33
        18. New England Patriots at 11:13
        19. 9-J.Tucker kicks 65 yards from BAL 35 to NE 0. 32-D.McCourty ran ob at NE 29 for 29 yards.
        20. 1-10-NE 29(11:04) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 85-B.Lloyd ran ob at NE 41 for 12 yards.
        21. 1-10-NE 41(10:46) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 34-S.Vereen to 50 for 9 yards (31-B.Pollard).
        22. 2-1-(10:27) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short right to 85-B.Lloyd.
        23. 3-1-(10:19) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 34-S.Vereen up the middle to BAL 43 for 7 yards (24-C.Graham).
        24. 1-10-BAL 43(9:53) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 83-W.Welker to BAL 38 for 5 yards (29-C.Williams; 92-H.Ngata).
        25. 2-5-BAL 38(9:23) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 34-S.Vereen ran ob at BAL 25 for 13 yards.
        26. 1-10-BAL 25(9:09) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 84-D.Branch to BAL 19 for 6 yards (22-J.Smith).
        27. 2-4-BAL 19(8:42) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 34-S.Vereen. NE 12-Brady now has 5,862 career postseason passing yards, passing Brett Favre for most all-time.
        28. 3-4-BAL 19(8:39) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short right to 83-W.Welker.
        29. 4-4-BAL 19(8:35) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to 84-D.Branch [92-H.Ngata].
        30. Baltimore Ravens at 08:27
        31. 1-10-BAL 19(8:27) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco sacked at BAL 18 for -1 yards (50-R.Ninkovich).
        32. 2-11-BAL 18(7:44) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short left to 12-J.Jones [55-B.Spikes].
        33. 3-11-BAL 18(7:39) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to 81-A.Boldin.
        34. 4-11-BAL 18(7:34) 4-S.Koch punts 42 yards to NE 40, Center-46-M.Cox, downed by BAL-32-J.Ihedigbo.
        35. New England Patriots at 07:25
        36. 1-10-NE 40(7:25) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass deep left to 83-W.Welker to BAL 24 for 36 yards (24-C.Graham). NE 83-Welker 3rd career 100-yard postseason game.
        37. 1-10-BAL 24(6:57) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle intended for 81-A.Hernandez INTERCEPTED by 59-D.Ellerbe (90-P.McPhee) at BAL 16. 59-D.Ellerbe to BAL 18 for 2 yards. The Replay Assistant challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was Upheld.
        38. Baltimore Ravens at 06:49
        39. 1-10-BAL 18(6:49) 27-R.Rice left guard to BAL 18 for no gain (94-J.Francis).
        40. 2-10-BAL 18(6:07) 27-R.Rice left end to BAL 27 for 9 yards (94-J.Francis).
        41. 3-1-BAL 27(5:21) 27-R.Rice up the middle to BAL 29 for 2 yards (55-B.Spikes).
        42. 1-10-BAL 29(4:38) 30-B.Pierce up the middle to BAL 34 for 5 yards (96-J.Cunningham).
        43. 2-5-BAL 34(3:56) 44-V.Leach up the middle to BAL 38 for 4 yards (94-J.Francis).
        44. 3-1-BAL 38(3:13) 44-V.Leach up the middle to BAL 43 for 5 yards (94-J.Francis; 32-D.McCourty).
        45. 1-10-BAL 43(2:27) 27-R.Rice left end to BAL 43 for no gain (54-D.Hightower; 32-D.McCourty).
        46. Timeout #1 by NE at 02:20.
        47. 2-10-BAL 43(2:20) 27-R.Rice up the middle to BAL 45 for 2 yards (51-J.Mayo; 55-B.Spikes).
        48. Timeout #2 by NE at 02:15.
        49. 3-8-BAL 45(2:15) 27-R.Rice right end to BAL 45 for no gain (55-B.Spikes).
        50. Timeout #3 by NE at 02:11.
        51. 4-8-BAL 45(2:11) 4-S.Koch punts 22 yards to NE 33, Center-46-M.Cox, out of bounds.
        52. New England Patriots at 02:05
        53. 1-10-NE 33(2:05) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short right to 84-D.Branch ran ob at NE 43 for 10 yards.
        54. 1-10-NE 43(2:02) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 39-D.Woodhead [92-H.Ngata].
        55. Two-Minute Warning
        56. 2-10-NE 43(1:58) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short middle to 83-W.Welker to BAL 45 for 12 yards (52-R.Lewis; 24-C.Graham).
        57. 1-10-BAL 45(1:45) 12-T.Brady spiked the ball to stop the clock.
        58. 2-10-BAL 45(1:44) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 39-D.Woodhead ran ob at BAL 33 for 12 yards. NE 12-Brady 6th career 300-yard postseason game, ties Joe Montana & Kurt Warner for 2nd all-time (Peyton Manning, 8).
        59. 1-10-BAL 33(1:40) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short left to 39-D.Woodhead [55-T.Suggs].
        60. 2-10-BAL 33(1:35) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short right to 84-D.Branch (90-P.McPhee).
        61. 3-10-BAL 33(1:31) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass short left to 81-A.Hernandez to BAL 22 for 11 yards (31-B.Pollard) [91-C.Upshaw].
        62. 1-10-BAL 22(1:14) 12-T.Brady spiked the ball to stop the clock.
        63. 2-10-BAL 22(1:13) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass deep left intended for 85-B.Lloyd INTERCEPTED by 29-C.Williams at BAL -5. Touchback.
        64. Baltimore Ravens at 01:06
        65. 1-10-BAL 20(1:06) 5-J.Flacco kneels, dead ball declared at BAL 19 for -1 yards.
        66. 2-11-BAL 19(:36) 5-J.Flacco kneels, dead ball declared at BAL 18 for -1 yards.
        67. END GAME
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    How many times do I have to say you can't establish a run from the shotgun? In the first half Brady is in the shotgun and it's not just on 3rd downs.

    Ugh.

    He's in shotgun on maybe half a dozen plays in the first half. I didn't count, but just skimming it's obvious the vast majority of plays weren't shotgun. The play by play is there for everyone to see.  Why do you insist on your point even when the evidence that proves it wrong is right in front of everyone's eyes?  Talk about "ugh" . . .   

    I mean really, just admit it for once and for all . . . you're wrong.  

    Please learn to read! You're making my points for me! Also, Dillon is subbed in and out and he wasn't effective. Again, not surprising your lead back subbed in and out with no rhythm isn't effective.

    They stuck with Dillon fine. Problem was he was getting lots of short gains mixed in with a few long ones.  Those short gains were making it hard to get first downs and forcing more passing.  

    Another point you're making for me!  Stick with one lead back and he's the guy, preferably someone who can get yards in between the tackles.

    They didn't establish a run in the first half and Brady was in the shotgun spread many times in the first half. Period.

    That's a set up for failure right there.

    Also, I noticed you ignore this because you didn't bold it in your desperation:

     I just copied the play by play.  NFL.com puts the scoring plays in bold.  The Bailey interception wasn't a scoring play thanks to Ben Watson. Therefore it's not in bold.  

    (1:03) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass intended for T.Brown INTERCEPTED by C.Bailey at DEN -1. C.Bailey to NE 1 for 100 yards (B.Watson). FUMBLES (B.Watson), ball out of bounds at NE 1. Play Challenged by NE and Upheld. (Timeout #1 by NE at 00:47.)

    Imagine if he wasn't in the shotgun there, telling the D he was going to pass?

    So every shotgun play is intercepted?  It's amazing so many teams keep calling shotgun plays when every one of them results in an interception. 



     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

    What about the no huddle? Are you telling me you can establish a run game out of that wrinkle?

    You were talking shotgun.  Now that it's obvious you were wrong, you are gonna change your argument.  Who's "sneaky" now . . .

    Of course you can run out of no-huddle.  It's not like huddling or not huddling tips off the other team about anything other than you want to move fast. 

     

    You can't!   That's the flaw. Whether it be a wrinkle like a shotgun spread or hurry up, they are wrinkles!

    The problem is wrinkles?  Oh please, get out the Oil of Olay . .  

    Just forget it, dude.  The run game can't come from a wrinkle!  PCMIV tried to do the same thing and he missed the point completely. It's not so much the amount of shotgun or hurry up, it's the fact we're in a race to use a wrinkle vs a good or great D in the first half!  Smells like desperation when it's not a desperate time.   0-0 in the first calls for over management of the offense? Why?

    Just establish the run against the good or great Ds with good old fashined, two wides, 1 TE (or two) and 1 RB  (or two with a FB) and get after it. That's what you do. That is what works. Don sub the backs either.  Do that in the first half and you'll be rewarded in the second half.  Even if you don't score a lot in the first, it sets the table in the second half to win those 20-17 games.

    When was the last time we even did that against a D we knew matched up well against us?

    Answer that question, please.

    What, 2010 vs Baltimore when our D was outstanding and held and held and won the game for us in OT until we scored to win it? 

    See a pattern here?

    Funny how these games that aren't necessarily even fitting my premise perfectly, yet I can easily tell you why the approach hurt our offense and its ability to open the playbook in the second half.

    We over-manage our offense, in a nut shell. Keep it simple!

     

    Man are you stretching here.  Desperation.  

    Wrinkles.  We need fewer wrinkles. I want to hear you tell that to Bill Belichick in one of his press conferences.  I'd pay to see that . . . 

    Fewer wrinkles.

     


    LMAO. 

     

     

    Off to bed with that one . . . got an early morning meeting tomorrow . .. night, night. 


     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    A lot of posters seem to want the Pats to adopt a "ball control" strategy.  There are many reasons for this, but maybe the most common argument in favour of a ball control offensive strategy is that it presumably helps the defense.  Keeping the defense off the field is seen as a positive for two reasons:

    • First, when a defense is weak, you want to limit the time the opposing offense is on the field, therefore limiting their opportunties to score against the weak defense
    • Second, the defense gets more rest and should therefore stay fresher and be more effective

    The question becomes whether these two reasons--which seem on the surface to make sense--really hold up under more careful analysis.  

     

    Protecting the Defense

    Let's start with the first: ball control will allow you to keep the opposing offense off the field and this will protect your defense.  The first part of this statement is absolutely true--ball control can limit the time the opposing offense is on the field.  The more game clock you can eat up on offense, the less game time there will be for the opposing offense to mount its drives.  What really happens is that the opposing offense gets fewer drives than they otherwise would.  Their drives aren't necessarily shorter, it's just that there isn't as much time left for their drives, so they end up having fewer of them.

    One logical trap to avoid is the tendency to forget that in addition to reducing the number of drives for your opponents, a ball control strategy will also reduce the number of drives you have for your own offense.  Possessions generally alternate, so both teams generally have the same number of possessions in a game or one team ends up with one extra possession (there are a few things, like muffed punts, muffed kick-offs, and pick-sixes, that can result in a team having two possessions in a row, but these are relatively rare).  So if a ball control strategy is successful and therefore reduces the number of drives for the opposing team, it also will reduce by the same amount the number of drives for your own offense.  A successful ball control strategy means both teams have fewer possessions and therefore fewer scoring chances. 

    In deciding whether ball control helps or hurts you, the first thing you need to consider is whether having a low number of drives in a game is beneficial to you.  

    Generally, a game with fewer possessions (i.e., a ball control game) is good for you if:

    • You are dominant defensive team.  In this case, you win by shutting your opponents down, and giving them fewer chances to score only helps you shut them down.
    • Your opponent has a dominant offense.  In this case, you want to avoid a shoot out, so fewer possessions is generally good. 

    A game with more possessions (i.e., not a ball control game), is generally good for you if:

    • You are a dominant offensive team.  In this case a shootout is ideal for you. 
    • Your opponent has a dominant defense.  You need as many chances to score as possible.

    In other situations, there are pluses and minus to both fewer drives and more drives.  Generally, in any situation, if you think your opponents have a higher chance of scoring when their offense is matched against your defense than you have when your offense is matched against their defense, then you want to go for fewer possessions.  If you think the opposite holds, then you want to go for more possessions. 

    In recent years, the Pats have had a dominant offense (at least by regular season stats).  They've been weak on defense when measured by yards given up, but closer to average when measured on points given up.  Based on this, the Pats should assume that in most games, more possessions helps them.  Their offense can score at a higher rate than most other teams's offenses, and their defense, while it gives up a lot of yards, tends to be close to the average in points given up.  This argues for trying to increase the number of possessions to maximize the chances of scoring on offense while assuming the defense will probably not be able to shut out the other offense, but will be able to keep them scoring at a slower pace than your own offense will score.  Ball control (which reduces the number of possession) is not the ideal strategy for a team that was built like the Pats were over the past few years. Increasing possessions and offensive chances is the goal, and that argues for exactly what Belichick has done:  Play hurry up and score as fast as possible. 

     

    Resting the Defense

    The second argument about why ball control helps the defense is about resting the defense.  To evaluate this argument you have to be clear about the distinction between game time and real time.  If you have a successful ball control offense, your drives, by definition, should be taking up more game time.  But are they also taking up more real time?  From a rest perspective, it's real time that counts after all.

    To answer this question, you have to look at how teams actually execute "ball control." A lot of people assume ball control means running more.  Usually it does, but really what matters are two things:

    1. Average play length is short, so you have to run more plays to cover the same amount of yardage

    2. The game clock keeps running, which means no incomplete passes and no plays ending out of bounds.  

    Theoretically, you can do ball control with lots of short complete passes just as well as you can by running the ball.  In fact, short passes may be even more effective since a pass play, from snap, through drop back, through completion, through tackle typically takes longer than a running play.    If the pass only gets two or three yards, is complete, and ends inbounds, it likely lasts 5 or 6 seconds from snap to tackle rather than 3 or 4 seconds.  And the game clock keeps running between plays as long as the pass is complete so there's no difference between a run and a completed pass there. 

    Where passing doesn't work as well from a ball control perspective is:

    1. The average play length is usually longer, so you don't have to run as many plays to cover the same yardage (this is actually the most important reason why passing isn't as good as running in ball control), and

    2. An incomplete pass stops the game clock.

    Because of these two factors, passing tends to eat less game clock than running.  The plays are longer and therefore there are fewer of them.  And the incomplete passes stop the game clock on a few more plays each drive.  It's important to note, however, that the game clock stopping actually has no effect on real time.  There's still real time passing between plays.  It's just that the game clock isn't running while that real time is passing.  The defense can still rest during the time between plays, regardless of whether the game clock runs or not, so clock stoppage isn't such a big deal when you're concerned with resting the defense.  

    What's more significant for the defense is the fact that drives end sooner with more passing, because plays tend to be longer and therefore there are fewer of them.  In addition, if you are eating up a lot of game time on your drives and can win the TOP battle because of that, then the other team has less game time to use on their drives and that will reduce the time the defense is actually playing. 

    For the above reasons, ball control probably does help the defense rest a bit.  In reality, though, a game with lots of short passes with a high completion rate, probably helps as much as a run-based game.  In fact, looking at the Pats offense the past few years, they have run an extremely large number of scrimmage plays.  They do get their plays off quickly, which is the opposite of a time-eating strategy, but they tend to run a lot of short pass plays, which helps create more time-consuming drives with more plays.  In the end, their average offensive drive length is just about equal to the league average. They are not a ball control team, but they aren't a shootout team either. One thing that does stand out when you look at average drive length is that the Patriots' opponents' drives tend to be well above the NFL average.  This suggests that the Pats' defense can't get off the field.  If anything, if the goal is to maximize the number of possessions to give the offense as many chances to score as possible,  the offense has to work fast to compensate for a defense that can't get off the field and tends to allow other teams to control the ball. 

    Conclusion

    The way the Pats team was built over the last few years, ball control probably didn't make much sense.  Which explains why Bill Belichick pursued a strategy that a lot of fans think was wrong.  Going forward things might change.  If the defense once again becomes dominant, ball control becomes more attractive.  And if the offense declines at the same time, then ball control becomes almost necessary.  The best scenario is for the offense to stay good and the defense to get better.  This makes ball control possible but not necessary and that means the most flexibility to change strategy based on both opponent and game situation.  That is very much what the 2003 and 2004 teams could do.  It's not, however, what recent teams could do.  The defense whas just too unreliable to allow for much else other than what Bill Belichick did.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




    You do realize our D benefitted from brady's style and our offense from 2001-2004, right?

     

     

     

    2005-2011 Postseasons:

     

     

     

    32 TDs, 19 INTs

     

     

     

     

     

    2001-2004 Postseasons:

     

     

     

    11 TDs, 3 INTs

     

    Explain how the more recent style of shotgun spreads and 40+ passes with leads and no run game established like we used to do (by choice), is better for the TEAM?

    It's not like we're trailing in the postseason games with regards to Brady's passing or INT rates.

    I can name like 3 games where we were trailing in the postseason and he threw picks which weren't his fault.

    2005 divisionals in Denver.

    2006 divisionals in SD.

    2009 divisionals vs Balt.

    That's only 3 games of like how many?  15 or so since the 2005 postseason?

    Have you read the Lundblad article I posted or are you afraid to??? lol

    Other than those 3 games where he can get a pass, he's sucked vs the non-bad defenses, and it's when we have leads.  It's even occurred when our D has created at least 1 turnover or scored (Safety) or set the offense up in great position, too.

    Brady has completely HURT our team MORE than he's helped it in the postseason, generally speaking, since 2005 in the pass first offense.  He also is on record  as preferring that offense and being in the shotgun.

     

     

     


    Russ, Tom has absolutely failed on some critical plays during the play-offs especially over the last few losses. That said, I don't believe you can attribute his failure to EXECUTE on specific plays to the style of offense that the PATS employ. Dropped passes that have little to no influence from the D are again failures by the players to execute, not style. I agree that Tom has disappointed and has not met expectations in many recent play-off games, but in the end, you can't say that he has flat out sucked. Credit needs to be given to the opposition's D because, lets face it, they didn't just get there for being lucky. They are damned good, especailly the defenses we have lossed against. To your argument, Tom gets all the glory for success, and fairly should get most of the criticism for the Team's failures. BUT, I maintain that Tom is the right guy, for our team still, and MUST continue to do what he does in consistantly leading this team to victories. Our O-line and receivers have got to get better at execution in blocking assignments against the the better pass rushes, and catching catchable balls in big spots. Tyree and Mannigham's catches are the difference makers for the Giants in our two SB losses. Tom's guys have got to help him out a bit more too. Tom absolutely isn't the greatest athlete on our team and is strictly a pocket/shot gun guy. There's nothing we can do about that and as such need more balance to keep the D honest, but better execution, not sweeping changes to style are needed. I maintain that with a couple of plays being the difference from winning  and losing all of these recent play-off games, our defensive improvement this season will already make up the difference even before the improvement in big play execution.

     

     




     

    I disagree. I think he looked at GOmer's stats post 2004, has 3 rings and turned to BB and said something along the lines of "I want what he has stats wise and I think we can do that here".

    Yep. I do. I really do.

    If it's true Brady read BB the riot act with the quality of WRs post 2006 seasons (which I can't say I blame him because Branch was big with what the offense needed to be if Caldwell was meant to be a # 2, Brown a #3 and Gaffney what should have been a #4), and BB responded with Moss and Welker......then you have to conceded this is what Brady wanted and what BB went along with to make his QB happy.

    I would have done the same thing. Seriously. What coach or GM doesn't want to have a happy QB?

    Since then, Brady has looked like Gomer Manning of 2000-2006 where Gomer would lead the stats run for QBs, line up 3 times in the shotgun from the 3 yard line, break Marino's records, and then blame everyone from the kicker to his O Line come January.

    Hmmm.

    Gomer Manning thought he was ABOVE his team. If he had not had handed off to Addai/Rhodes in SB 41, he doesn't own a SB ring. He would have thrown probably 1 or 2 INTs, and the Bears would have run on that feeble run D.

    But, they played ball control and kept the worst run D of all time to win a SB off the field.

    Ball control.

    No turovers, manage the game by doing the small things right when the play breaks down, run the clock and try to maximize drives with a TD, or even a FG in between.

    It's painful to admit, but we handed over the 2006 AFC title game because we didn't turn to Dillon or Maroney and say "we're running it with you 15 times in the second half in more traditional sets, be prepared"....

    Instead, we kept passing. One drive lasted literally 30 seconds!  We had numerous 3 and outs and our offense only generated enough movement for two FGs.  Wuld have been fine if the other drives were sustained more 30 seconds or 1 minute!

    Same thing in SB 42 or 46. There are all the same variation of the problem. It's a game management problem.  Who is our QB?  Who wanted this?

    If you want to blame BB, too, go right ahead. But, the guy who wanted this was Brady. And, if they were sitting across the table from me right now I would say this to their face and present this case just like I am presenting now and have presented for 3 years here.

    There is nothing fans can do about it. It's time to move forward. The Bradyites need to admit they have been wrong this whole time and get over themselves, too.

    I feel by BB dealing Moss thatw as his way of seeing it and realizing it would fester. Same deal with Welker wanting a ring and probably inevitably wanting himself to atone for SB 42 and SB 46, which in turn might have Brady appeasing and forcing balls to Welker just like he did to Moss in 2009 or early 2010.

    It's not a coincidence Brady won the MVP in 2010. He played MUCH better like the old Tom from Week 5-Week 17. But, if BB had not dealt Moss (and reacquired Branch), he wouldn't have won the MVP that year.

    Branch, by simply running more routes, new routes no one had seen him run here and Brady getting under Center more, us running more with a true lead back (not a scatback), Brady was back to old Brady.

    DO you realize we "established" our run in the 2006 AFC title game out of shotgun mostly on draws?  The reason why we blew the lead and our D was gassed in that dome is because we didn't just hammer the rock with a lead.

    3 runs in a row with MAroney or Dillon would have been 2:56 of clock including a punt. That's a lot better than 30 seconds on 3 passes and a punt from our 20!

     

     



    OK. Based on what you say about the realtionship between TB and BB, it is very understandable and you well support why you feel the way you do. There's just a fundamental problem in the way you perceive their relationshop, man. The reality is TOM BRADY has NEVER read BB the riot act. BB is not that guy. Tom Brady is Tom Brady because he has been able to maintain a semblance of reality despite his stardom. Yeah, he's gotten his nose up a bit, but under the circumstances, he's still a humble dude. I dare say that BB STILL can make Tom Brady back down on every single football strategy debate, just as he can ANYONE ELSE on the TEAM and STAFF. Tom is a great executer, not an offensive genious. He does what he is told very well. If not, he would have never made it beyond being a UM back up. Tom Brady respects BB more than you obviously understand. Tom would have been slapped back to oblivion if he ever stood up to BILL and didn't back down when told to do so by him. See, that is THE PATRIOTS WAY, "I'm Bill EFEN-BELICHICK, and you will do what I say or you will be GONE!" Russ, there is no other way BB and TB could co-exist. THAT is how it goes for the truly GREAT Organizations. Pouting and pounding fists and throwing temper tantrums???? NO DAMNED WAY DUDE. TB12 would be drubbed out by BB. PERIOD. Don't froget, BB grew up in the Naval Academy and football team. Men showed ONLY respect for authority to thsoe who cammanded it. He learned under ideal circumstances from his dad. It is instilled in him. He is the boss and you are the worker, no matter what the TV tells you. If they don't like it, BYE!!! That is the reality of the situation. Sorry, man, but you need to entertain a different perspective on the power that BB commands with EVERY PLAYER and COACH.

     



    just a question: with u saving the world at NORAD and fighting off all the women who worship you (including your son's girlfriends) and running marathons barefoot and fighting sharks with ur bare hands and hanging with bill gates and all those things such "winners" in life as you do how do u have time to watch football and post here-especially with such excessive verbiage?

    i really am curious

    btw how many full-length mirrors you got in ur house?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

     

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:
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    In response to soxrockursox's comment:

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    In response to russgriswold's comment:

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    You don't run the ball when you are trying to EXTEND the lead. 

     

     

     




    Discussion over. You clearly are a new fan who never watched this team pre 2007. Or any team, for that matter.

     

     

     

     




    That's right discussion over.  You lose! 

     

     The whole board says you lose.  Have you read the comments?  Not one person agrees with you.  

    Show me a team that is running the ball while trying to score and EXTEND the lead.

    Yes, they were trying to EXTEND the lead with minutes left because BB KNEW HIS D couldn't stop a nose bleed and so did the rest of the world.

    They wanted one more score so that it wouldn't matter that the D was inevitably going to give up another, AGAIN!  Did you really expect them to sit on the clock for 8 minutes to end the game,?  And not give the ball back to the D in those 8 minutes?   BWAHAHAHAHA

    Why don't we take a poll and see how many posters didn't think the Gints would score on their last drive and the D would make a stop.

    Even, you knew they wouldn't make a stop.  Just admit it.  You said you almost turned it off when Brady threw the pick.  Why?  There was plenty of time left.  They had the lead!

      Face it, you had no faith in the D. NO BODY did!

    Oh, boohoo they were in a dome and tired from their first drive of the game, 6 minute possession. ... And the next 5 and the next 5 and the next 5 and the next and next.

    Did you see Brady praying on the bench?  I did!  Can you imagine how sick he felt when the D gave it all away AGAIN. 

    Probably more sick than all us fans combined (minus you).

    If he's in it for the STATS, like you illogically think BB is giving in to, seems he would want to win another SB.  Seems like the defensive genius would have made that happen, by not letting the D spoil it for him.  FAIL!  Most illogical and irrational poster alive.

    What's backendal?. 

    Oh, now it's "match ups"  it's not wrinkles, it's match ups.  WE never used to have match ups.  Just throw Patrick  Pass in there and watch us win..  OH BOY!  Why not Patrick Run instead of Patrick Pass.  LMAO  Psycho!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

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    I'll give this one more shot then I'm done discussing it. I'll say he didn't play well in the last AFC championship game...and I think you can say that for a lot of players on that team that day. You've listed a lot of games and truthfully the guy has played in probably more big games than any player in the history of the league, and he has played well in most of them, outstanding in others and poor in a few of them. Truthfully the team gets as far as they do most every year because of him. Playing poorly to the best pass defense in the league (Baltimore) is not what you are looking for, but it's to be expected a little bit. Both times he was missing his best player on offense. I've said it before and I'll say it again...he would of been the MVP of Super Bowl 46 if we had won that game. He made two poor decisions in that entire game under some of the best pass rushing you'll see and he did that with his best target far less than 100%. If we win that game he gets the MVP trophy...hands down...no question...money.

     

     

     

    People forget that this is a team game...that we are not the team we were when we were winning championships....you tell people that everyday (that we are not and can't be expected to be the talented team we were). In those years Brady made mistakes....big ones, yet they weren't nearly as costly (the interception in the 4th against Carolina comes to mind, so does the drive killing pick against the Eagles). Yet those defenses held their opponents, this one can't. To think a quarterback can just carry his team through three playoff games by himself is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. When he gets help things will change, until that happens we will not win another thing...you can bank on that. This team is not built good enough anymore, it hasn't been for a long time.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, at least you're being somewhat civil for once. 

     

    While I agree he would have been SB 46's MVP and SB 42's, do you see the common denominator is Brady, 45+ passes from either from 2007 or 2011? He wasn't because he and the offense played poorly over hugh chunks of game, costing us in the end.

    Our 2007 team "wasn't built well"?

    What on earth? What are you talking about?   

    Even if I excuse Brady and the offense for disappearing completely in terms of sustaining drives in the 2006 AFC title game and Caldwell wasn't a #1, Dillon or Maroney couldn't have carried the ball a bit more in that second half, to milk the clock a bit more? Really? We choose to throw 45+ times with the lead?????

    That was a better team than that Colts team, but our offense faded away again in the second half allowing the Colts to come from down by 15 at the half.

    This problem, which is a lot deeper than BB needing to rebuild through the draft almost exclusvely into the 2011 lockout, has been festering all the way back to when we fielded a balanced offense and had guys who owned 3 SB rings as the base of our defense.

    This problem has NOTHING to do with how well our team has been built, because a loaded offense can't even function in the postseason.

    Also, if you use the Gronk excuse, I get to use the Andre Carter excuse or the CHandler Jones and Talib excuse from January.

    Your comments still fail to attack what the problem is. It's either BB, Brady, the OC, or a combination of 2 or all 3. I feel it's BB deferring to what Brady feels comfortable doing. I say that's going to be scaled bick a bit now. 

    1. No one can stomach another poor performance from Brady at home in the title game again.

    2. Scaling it back a bit will help Brady be better than he has been, even if the stats are less.

    How our defense plays has nothing to do with how we can approach a good ball control strategy on offense.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You can have the no Chandler Jones or Carter excuse, it all factors into those games. I do agree we pass too much. I have no problem saying that...I have no problem admitting we are a finesse football team, because we are. I do have a problem pointing the finger on who's fault that is, because you think its Brady's fault and its the guy who built the roster. I think someone has leaned on Brady's arm a little too much do to the personnel of this team as it is constructed, until that changes you'll continue to see a finesse club that gets punched in the face at home during playoff games. I'm tired of it quite frankly. I don't think it's Brady's fault.

    I can guarantee that if Belichick had another back like Dillon he would run his legs off...just like he throws Brady's arm off...does he have that now? I don't think that's on the roster right now. Blount has some talent - despite what the media says about him - he's young enough still and if he's motivated you can run him right between the tackles. The thing is none of our backs are very dynamic, and backs that aren't dynamic get stopped...usually in playoff games against good defenses.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't really care about the blame at this point. I am not chaning my gut feelings on the matter, you won't change yours. That doesn't matter at this point. I am very comfortable in my premise.  The press hates BB, so they blame him to the point it's become ridiculous overkill and some Pats fans are completely in the dark with how Brady has underperformed.

    That shouldn't even matter anymore at this point. What's done is done. All I ask is for is a fair assessment with what has happened and to stop this subtle, but obvious premise that somehow this all falls into BB's lap. It flat out does not.

    It's come to the point we have threads about BB being a subar GM. That's how ridiculous the trol work has become on this board.

    He can't control the decisions Brady makes on the field.  It's so ridiculous to make that claim.

    The players need to held responsible for not executing. And, sometimes the other team just makes more of the better plays, which is fine.  I have no issues losing because a team played great and we only played pretty good or bad. No issues there.

    However, this "problem" on offense is so deep rooted, it goes back to the days when some of our favorite defenders still played here.  THEY were affected by it in 2005.. 2006.  And of course, in 2007. 

    If Samuel doesn't pick a gimpy Rivers twice in the 2007 AFC title, I am not sure we get to that SB. Also, LT didn't even play.

    As much as the Denver playoff loss in 2005 was just a bad day in the second half with a slew of turnovers (5, total, I believe), we didn't score in the first half. Dillon was on one foot, so we used Faulk as the lead back and we ran mostly shotguns.

    That right there is a great example of why this finesse thing used as the bulk of what we do on offense is a failure. Even plopping Moss and Welker into it wasn't good enough. It can't sustain. It's GREAT to have when you need it, but it can't be the basis of your offense.  It can't. It's been proven as such.

    There are a dozen examples of this since 2005.  It's actually more rare to see the D play BAD where the offense played great.  It is. If the D bailed out this offense in 2/3 of the last AFC title games at home, how is the D more to blame? It can't be.

    Even in the 2006 AFC title game, two of those TDs, points of our 31 or whatever it was were either a Def TD and essentially the 80 yard kick off return by Hobbs. So, if you take away 14 points from what the offense generated by itself, they only really scored 17 points with their own doing.

    17 points is what our finesse shotgun spread scored in SB 46. That is not going to cut it in this era. In 1971 it might, but not now. 

    SB 23 was the only SB I can think of in the last 30-40 years minus the Cowboys/Colts SB in the early 70s where 17 points (16 by SF vs Cincy in January of 1989), was enough.

    I think Brady prefers the shotgun spread to this level because he got injured in 2008 and feels more comfortable seeing who is coming at him. Makes sense for him, but it's actually hurt our team over the game. Why is this opinion so offensive? 

    So, without our D getting a pick 6 or our kick returner setting up a golden opp, or our D creating 2 turnovers automatically, this offense really only puts out around 17 points per game against good Ds.

    Outside of the Giants and their luck Tyree catch situation, there is not one SB winning team that wins by scoring just 17 points.

    The 14 and 13 in recent games is obviously worse.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, it's a team game. You want to talk about offenses putting up more than 17 points against good teams in Super Bowls, you'll also have to talk about those very same teams having better defenses. Because that's what it boils down to...one of those teams got an assist from that defense to get a ball back...get a scoring opportunity. This is good football and its what we haven't had to win it all. I look at the Ravens team recently - they got it from both sides - both the offense and the defense won that thing throughout those playoffs and ultimately the Super Bowl. They ran it when they had to and were able to check it down to their backs when the receivers were covered. They got huge plays from those receivers...I mean at times they just could not be stopped, it didn't matter the coverage or situation, they were coming down with the ball. And that defense didn't make many mistakes...they executed...it was a total team win.

    I agree our offense has not done enough at times, but they will never single handily be able to carry a team through three playoff teams on the way to hoisting a Lombardi trophy...you can't do it that way. You had better have your defense create a turnover, sack a QB, get off the field on a third down, intimidate someone. We used to do all that...all that. We never even sacked Sanchez once a few years ago, we made the worst quarterback in the NFL look like Joe Montana. Christ we made Eli Manning look like a Hall of Famer twice! Eli got absolutely pounded on the way to that second Super Bowl and we never even touched him?? How does that happen? The guy nearly dies playing against the 49ers two weeks before the Super Bowl and when he faces us he never hits the turf?

    I don't blame belichick's coaching one bit, not one. When he talks about us needing to coach better after loses he's just taking the heat off an offense or defense that didn't execute a game plan that probably was more than good enough for us to win. It's the players (both sides). It's us facing some of the best teams in the league in the playoffs (to be expected).

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

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    You don't run the ball when you are trying to EXTEND the lead. 

     

     

     




    Discussion over. You clearly are a new fan who never watched this team pre 2007. Or any team, for that matter.

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That's right discussion over.  You lose! 

     

     The whole board says you lose.  Have you read the comments?  Not one person agrees with you.  

    Show me a team that is running the ball while trying to score and EXTEND the lead.

    Yes, they were trying to EXTEND the lead with minutes left because BB KNEW HIS D couldn't stop a nose bleed and so did the rest of the world.

    They wanted one more score so that it wouldn't matter that the D was inevitably going to give up another, AGAIN!  Did you really expect them to sit on the clock for 8 minutes to end the game,?  And not give the ball back to the D in those 8 minutes?   BWAHAHAHAHA

    Why don't we take a poll and see how many posters didn't think the Gints would score on their last drive and the D would make a stop.

    Even, you knew they wouldn't make a stop.  Just admit it.  You said you almost turned it off when Brady threw the pick.  Why?  There was plenty of time left.  They had the lead!

      Face it, you had no faith in the D. NO BODY did!

    Oh, boohoo they were in a dome and tired from their first drive of the game, 6 minute possession. ... And the next 5 and the next 5 and the next 5 and the next and next.

    Did you see Brady praying on the bench?  I did!  Can you imagine how sick he felt when the D gave it all away AGAIN. 

    Probably more sick than all us fans combined (minus you).

    If he's in it for the STATS, like you illogically think BB is giving in to, seems he would want to win another SB.  Seems like the defensive genius would have made that happen, by not letting the D spoil it for him.  FAIL!  Most illogical and irrational poster alive.

    What's bankendal?. 

    [/QUOTE]

    i still think brady ran over his dog

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:


    Please Rusty, can we stop just making things up? Here's the play-by-play.  Look at all the shotgun!



    I quickly counted.  I think there were 14.  Does that constitute mostly running shotguns?  Thanks for this breakdown, Prolate.  I guess the real reason Belichick doesn't stop Brady from the huge shotgun offense problem is because it doesn't exist.

    Will these facts put an end to Rusty's lies?  Not a chance, but it's nice to see it anyway.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    It's not so much the amount of shotgun or hurry up, it's the fact we're in a race to use a wrinkle vs a good or great D in the first half!  Smells like desperation when it's not a desperate time.



    Oh, it's a desperate time alright.  You've been crying about the shotgun offense that Brady calls for weeks.  Now that the entire foundation of that soapboxing has crumbled, you're desperate to find a way not to look like a complete moron.

    It's not working.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:



    Actually, many agree and don't comment.



    If they don't comment, how do you know they even exist, let alone agree?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:


    We had 4.5 sacks in SB 46 and our D held to 13 points for the whole game until it became too much and they ran out gas. You also act like the 2 fumbles they caused in the SB were not really created by humans on NEs D.

    Even with those facts, if you are up in the 4th qtr and your D is holding over and over and your offense fades, who was more to blame?

     



    What kind of excuse is "until it became too much"?  Is that also known as "until they couldn't handle it anymore"?

    Why did they run out of gas?  Was it because of poor conditioning?  Was it because they allowed Manning to have the ball for 37 minutes?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

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    In response to soxrockursox's comment:

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    In response to russgriswold's comment:

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    You don't run the ball when you are trying to EXTEND the lead. 

     

     

     

     




    Discussion over. You clearly are a new fan who never watched this team pre 2007. Or any team, for that matter.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That's right discussion over.  You lose! 

     

     

     The whole board says you lose.  Have you read the comments?  Not one person agrees with you.  

    Show me a team that is running the ball while trying to score and EXTEND the lead.

    Yes, they were trying to EXTEND the lead with minutes left because BB KNEW HIS D couldn't stop a nose bleed and so did the rest of the world.

    They wanted one more score so that it wouldn't matter that the D was inevitably going to give up another, AGAIN!  Did you really expect them to sit on the clock for 8 minutes to end the game,?  And not give the ball back to the D in those 8 minutes?   BWAHAHAHAHA

    Why don't we take a poll and see how many posters didn't think the Gints would score on their last drive and the D would make a stop.

    Even, you knew they wouldn't make a stop.  Just admit it.  You said you almost turned it off when Brady threw the pick.  Why?  There was plenty of time left.  They had the lead!

      Face it, you had no faith in the D. NO BODY did!

    Oh, boohoo they were in a dome and tired from their first drive of the game, 6 minute possession. ... And the next 5 and the next 5 and the next 5 and the next and next.

    Did you see Brady praying on the bench?  I did!  Can you imagine how sick he felt when the D gave it all away AGAIN. 

    Probably more sick than all us fans combined (minus you).

    If he's in it for the STATS, like you illogically think BB is giving in to, seems he would want to win another SB.  Seems like the defensive genius would have made that happen, by not letting the D spoil it for him.  FAIL!  Most illogical and irrational poster alive.

    What's bankendal?. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Actually, many agree and don't comment.

     

    Also, our fanbase don't post here. LOL

    Go walk into a Pats game and tailgate and talk to older fans who have been around a long time who don't have an odd man lust for our QB, and get their opinions on Brady lately.

    It's a huge, huge concern, especially with his age now and how his approach has failed.

    Yes, I saw our D Line on the bench in SB 46 when Brady threw wild and high in SB 46 with Welker unable to bail out another poor throw with his preference used to make it all about him, to atone for SB 42.

    Yes, I saw that.

    Ouch. Truth can hurt. And, that's the truth. I've had it with the evil glare when he knows the camera is on him, too. It used to be kind of badasz, but I realized in recent years, he's using his past resume to make it seem like he's focused.

    Double ouch.

    The truth can hurt.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, the ghosts, the voices in your head, all the posters that are not commenting and even BB, all agree with you.  It's just that WE CAN"T HEAR THEM!  LMAO@U

    Don't you ever get tired of playing the fool?  Guess you're not playing.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Our offense has SUCKED in the postseason for like 6 or 7 years, running from the basics.



    January 14th, 2012

    Patriots 45

    Broncos 10

    Brady throws six touchdowns.

     

    January 12th, 2007

    Patriots 31

    Jaguars 10

    Brady goes 26 for 28


    Just two quick examples of the Pats offense sucking.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    It's not so much the amount of shotgun or hurry up, it's the fact we're in a race to use a wrinkle vs a good or great D in the first half!  Smells like desperation when it's not a desperate time.

     



    Oh, it's a desperate time alright.  You've been crying about the shotgun offense that Brady calls for weeks.  Now that the entire foundation of that soapboxing has crumbled, you're desperate to find a way not to look like a complete moron.

     

    It's not working.

    [/QUOTE]


    Amazing! Simply amazing!  I can not believe his response after crying forever about the shotgun offense.  What a fraud he is.  How can anyone have even the slightest discussion now with Rusty after that comment.  His last ounce of credabiliy is now gone.  He sunk his own boat with that comment.  It's time to be done with ol Rusty.  He has been totally destroyed in this thread. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    I mean, what more needs to be said here? Listen to 98.5.  There are MANY, MANY people who call in, above the teenie bopper age or the realm of Brady man lust who say EXACTLY what I say here.



    Yes.  Talk show callers.  There's a group to use as a reference.

    I understand now.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to TFB12's comment:



    Amazing! Simply amazing!  I can not believe his response after crying forever about the shotgun offense.  What a fraud he is.  How can anyone have even the slightest discussion now with Rusty after that comment.  His last ounce of credabiliy is now gone.  He sunk his own boat with that comment.  It's time to be done with ol Rusty.  He has been totally destroyed in this thread. 



    Yeah, that's going to be a tough one to get past.  I may not be the ultimate technical mind when it comes to the NFL like some here, but I can at least check facts before I post them.  If I don't know something, I certainly am not going to talk about it.  Rusty uses the old "say it enough and it becomes true" routine.  Sadly for him, the truth hurts.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is

    In response to russgriswold's comment:



    Umm, our Ds in SB 36 and SB 38 blew multiple leads, like with TDs allowed, not just FGs like in SB 46.

    Those were also in domes.  It gets kinda hot in domes sort of like the old Boston Garden. The difference was Brady didn't SUCK and he leaned on his run game.



    The Pats' defense ran out of gas because it was hot, and the Pats lost the game because Brady couldn't bail them out.

    And it's Brady's fault.

    Understood.

    Brady probably called too many shotguns, huh?

     
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    I'll give this one more shot then I'm done discussing it. I'll say he didn't play well in the last AFC championship game...and I think you can say that for a lot of players on that team that day. You've listed a lot of games and truthfully the guy has played in probably more big games than any player in the history of the league, and he has played well in most of them, outstanding in others and poor in a few of them. Truthfully the team gets as far as they do most every year because of him. Playing poorly to the best pass defense in the league (Baltimore) is not what you are looking for, but it's to be expected a little bit. Both times he was missing his best player on offense. I've said it before and I'll say it again...he would of been the MVP of Super Bowl 46 if we had won that game. He made two poor decisions in that entire game under some of the best pass rushing you'll see and he did that with his best target far less than 100%. If we win that game he gets the MVP trophy...hands down...no question...money.

     

     

     

     

     

    People forget that this is a team game...that we are not the team we were when we were winning championships....you tell people that everyday (that we are not and can't be expected to be the talented team we were). In those years Brady made mistakes....big ones, yet they weren't nearly as costly (the interception in the 4th against Carolina comes to mind, so does the drive killing pick against the Eagles). Yet those defenses held their opponents, this one can't. To think a quarterback can just carry his team through three playoff games by himself is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. When he gets help things will change, until that happens we will not win another thing...you can bank on that. This team is not built good enough anymore, it hasn't been for a long time.

     

     

     

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    Ok, at least you're being somewhat civil for once. 

     

     

     

    While I agree he would have been SB 46's MVP and SB 42's, do you see the common denominator is Brady, 45+ passes from either from 2007 or 2011? He wasn't because he and the offense played poorly over hugh chunks of game, costing us in the end.

    Our 2007 team "wasn't built well"?

    What on earth? What are you talking about?   

    Even if I excuse Brady and the offense for disappearing completely in terms of sustaining drives in the 2006 AFC title game and Caldwell wasn't a #1, Dillon or Maroney couldn't have carried the ball a bit more in that second half, to milk the clock a bit more? Really? We choose to throw 45+ times with the lead?????

    That was a better team than that Colts team, but our offense faded away again in the second half allowing the Colts to come from down by 15 at the half.

    This problem, which is a lot deeper than BB needing to rebuild through the draft almost exclusvely into the 2011 lockout, has been festering all the way back to when we fielded a balanced offense and had guys who owned 3 SB rings as the base of our defense.

    This problem has NOTHING to do with how well our team has been built, because a loaded offense can't even function in the postseason.

    Also, if you use the Gronk excuse, I get to use the Andre Carter excuse or the CHandler Jones and Talib excuse from January.

    Your comments still fail to attack what the problem is. It's either BB, Brady, the OC, or a combination of 2 or all 3. I feel it's BB deferring to what Brady feels comfortable doing. I say that's going to be scaled bick a bit now. 

    1. No one can stomach another poor performance from Brady at home in the title game again.

    2. Scaling it back a bit will help Brady be better than he has been, even if the stats are less.

    How our defense plays has nothing to do with how we can approach a good ball control strategy on offense.

     

     

     

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    You can have the no Chandler Jones or Carter excuse, it all factors into those games. I do agree we pass too much. I have no problem saying that...I have no problem admitting we are a finesse football team, because we are. I do have a problem pointing the finger on who's fault that is, because you think its Brady's fault and its the guy who built the roster. I think someone has leaned on Brady's arm a little too much do to the personnel of this team as it is constructed, until that changes you'll continue to see a finesse club that gets punched in the face at home during playoff games. I'm tired of it quite frankly. I don't think it's Brady's fault.

     

     

    I can guarantee that if Belichick had another back like Dillon he would run his legs off...just like he throws Brady's arm off...does he have that now? I don't think that's on the roster right now. Blount has some talent - despite what the media says about him - he's young enough still and if he's motivated you can run him right between the tackles. The thing is none of our backs are very dynamic, and backs that aren't dynamic get stopped...usually in playoff games against good defenses.

     

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    I don't really care about the blame at this point. I am not chaning my gut feelings on the matter, you won't change yours. That doesn't matter at this point. I am very comfortable in my premise.  The press hates BB, so they blame him to the point it's become ridiculous overkill and some Pats fans are completely in the dark with how Brady has underperformed.

     

    That shouldn't even matter anymore at this point. What's done is done. All I ask is for is a fair assessment with what has happened and to stop this subtle, but obvious premise that somehow this all falls into BB's lap. It flat out does not.

    It's come to the point we have threads about BB being a subar GM. That's how ridiculous the trol work has become on this board.

    He can't control the decisions Brady makes on the field.  It's so ridiculous to make that claim.

    The players need to held responsible for not executing. And, sometimes the other team just makes more of the better plays, which is fine.  I have no issues losing because a team played great and we only played pretty good or bad. No issues there.

    However, this "problem" on offense is so deep rooted, it goes back to the days when some of our favorite defenders still played here.  THEY were affected by it in 2005.. 2006.  And of course, in 2007. 

    If Samuel doesn't pick a gimpy Rivers twice in the 2007 AFC title, I am not sure we get to that SB. Also, LT didn't even play.

    As much as the Denver playoff loss in 2005 was just a bad day in the second half with a slew of turnovers (5, total, I believe), we didn't score in the first half. Dillon was on one foot, so we used Faulk as the lead back and we ran mostly shotguns.

    That right there is a great example of why this finesse thing used as the bulk of what we do on offense is a failure. Even plopping Moss and Welker into it wasn't good enough. It can't sustain. It's GREAT to have when you need it, but it can't be the basis of your offense.  It can't. It's been proven as such.

    There are a dozen examples of this since 2005.  It's actually more rare to see the D play BAD where the offense played great.  It is. If the D bailed out this offense in 2/3 of the last AFC title games at home, how is the D more to blame? It can't be.

    Even in the 2006 AFC title game, two of those TDs, points of our 31 or whatever it was were either a Def TD and essentially the 80 yard kick off return by Hobbs. So, if you take away 14 points from what the offense generated by itself, they only really scored 17 points with their own doing.

    17 points is what our finesse shotgun spread scored in SB 46. That is not going to cut it in this era. In 1971 it might, but not now. 

    SB 23 was the only SB I can think of in the last 30-40 years minus the Cowboys/Colts SB in the early 70s where 17 points (16 by SF vs Cincy in January of 1989), was enough.

    I think Brady prefers the shotgun spread to this level because he got injured in 2008 and feels more comfortable seeing who is coming at him. Makes sense for him, but it's actually hurt our team over the game. Why is this opinion so offensive? 

    So, without our D getting a pick 6 or our kick returner setting up a golden opp, or our D creating 2 turnovers automatically, this offense really only puts out around 17 points per game against good Ds.

    Outside of the Giants and their luck Tyree catch situation, there is not one SB winning team that wins by scoring just 17 points.

    The 14 and 13 in recent games is obviously worse.

     

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    Again, it's a team game. You want to talk about offenses putting up more than 17 points against good teams in Super Bowls, you'll also have to talk about those very same teams having better defenses. Because that's what it boils down to...one of those teams got an assist from that defense to get a ball back...get a scoring opportunity. This is good football and its what we haven't had to win it all. I look at the Ravens team recently - they got it from both sides - both the offense and the defense won that thing throughout those playoffs and ultimately the Super Bowl. They ran it when they had to and were able to check it down to their backs when the receivers were covered. They got huge plays from those receivers...I mean at times they just could not be stopped, it didn't matter the coverage or situation, they were coming down with the ball. And that defense didn't make many mistakes...they executed...it was a total team win.

    I agree our offense has not done enough at times, but they will never single handily be able to carry a team through three playoff teams on the way to hoisting a Lombardi trophy...you can't do it that way. You had better have your defense create a turnover, sack a QB, get off the field on a third down, intimidate someone. We used to do all that...all that. We never even sacked Sanchez once a few years ago, we made the worst quarterback in the NFL look like Joe Montana. Christ we made Eli Manning look like a Hall of Famer twice! Eli got absolutely pounded on the way to that second Super Bowl and we never even touched him?? How does that happen? The guy nearly dies playing against the 49ers two weeks before the Super Bowl and when he faces us he never hits the turf?

    I don't blame belichick's coaching one bit, not one. When he talks about us needing to coach better after loses he's just taking the heat off an offense or defense that didn't execute a game plan that probably was more than good enough for us to win. It's the players (both sides). It's us facing some of the best teams in the league in the playoffs (to be expected).

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    We had 4.5 sacks in SB 46 and our D held to 13 points for the whole game until it became too much and they ran out gas. You also act like the 2 fumbles they caused in the SB were not really created by humans on NEs D.

    Even with those facts, if you are up in the 4th qtr and your D is holding over and over and your offense fades, who was more to blame?

     

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    Again, 3 is not 4.5.  And how does a team get a half a sack anyway.  Who gets the other 1/2 sack?  LMAO

    Offensive Line: The Giants' line gave Eli Manning a clean pocket when he needed it late in the game. They gave up three sacks, but those didn't have a huge impact on the game. Their run blocking was solid all night long. If Bradshaw had been a bit more patient, the Giants could have had more big plays on the ground. Grade: A-


    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andrew_perloff/02/05   /super.bowl.xlvi.grades/index.html#ixzz2YQAJfgC5   What did the D hold over and over?  Their weewee?  Nope not even that as they peed themselves in allowing the Gints to score on 3 of 4 second half drives.  Actually it was more like #2. It's so freaken easy to catch you in a lie.  How pitiful. Sad thing is if you ever do tell the truth, not a soul will believe you.  WOLF, WOLF!!!!
     
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