1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 2:36 PM EDT

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:



    Get back to us when you determine if the sacks on the crucial drive in all 3 losses were great O-line play or not.




    Did you not read what I said. If Brady has time to go through all his progression (which in some cases, not all, he did) then the OL did their job. They can't hold indefinitly they are only suppose to hold long enough for a QB to go through their progressions, anything past that is gravy. hence why QB's are told if the play isn't there just get rid of the ball and reload, don't try to draw it out . Brady has said this! So, to answer your question sometimes it's Brady's fault sometimes it's the OL's fault it all depends how much time the ball is in Brady's hands. Is it in long enough to go through his progressions and has a chance to get rid of it instead of extending a broken play or does he not even have enough time to get set before the D is on him



    Did you not read what I said? Get back to us with your conclusions as to whether those sacks were Brady's fault. He has a reputation as a savvy QB so the onus is on you.




    See bold, I made it easier for you to read

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 2:57 PM EDT

    In response to UD6's comment:

    He no longer has a defense that guarantees he will be within a fg of a tie or a win.  That was the Brady magic. 



    Well this is absolute lies, the offense hasn't executed at the end of games since the cowboy game last year. I don't know why and it sucks to admit it but i'm sure the problem is being addressed at  the minute. UD6 if you're going to be here on this forum please at least write things that are true we've lost 3 games by 4 points in all of which the offense has stunk up the 4th quarter. Just leave if all you're here for is to take digs at Brady's legacy i.e. if Peyton had the D Brady had he'd have won the superbowl more....basically your constant point on this forum!!

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 2:59 PM EDT

    In response to kjfitone's comment:

    You are either on board with this team or you are not on board. Those of you who are not on board with this T-E-A-M can leave now . Some of you don't get what makes  up a football team. Stick to figure skating if you want to root for just one person.



    WRONG!!! Where does it say you need to agree with everything the team does to post on these forums or even be a fan?

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 3:29 PM EDT

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    See bold, I made it easier for you to read



    That's not answering the question.  That answer is about sacks in general.  Babe is asking you specifically about late game sacks this season when the O was trying to close the game out.  Basically Baltimore and Seattle.  Surely you can be more specific when there are only 2 cases to analyze.  I am not sure what "crucial sack" there was in the AZ game.  The last time Brady was sacked in that game was the drive we scored the TD that would have allowed us to tie the game had we gotten the conversion.

     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 3:34 PM EDT

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    See bold, I made it easier for you to read



    That's not answering the question.  That answer is about sacks in general.  Babe is asking you specifically about late game sacks this season when the O was trying to close the game out.  Basically Baltimore and Seattle.  Surely you can be more specific when there are only 2 cases to analyze.




    Well let me just put up those specific plays right off my hard drive and watch them again. I'm not sure about you but I don't have an library of those plays available right out of hand so no I can't be more specific. 


    And it wasn't just those two games his original comment was towards every loss in a comment referring to 2005, see quote below, and my answer was towards his general comment referencing since 2005 and no I will not go back for every loss since 05' to pull out the sacks and how much time Brady had. Babe also didn't ask for specific games and left it general so the answer in reference to every lose in 05' some were Brady's fault and some were the result of the OL

    "Ya and Brady can't pull out a win in the last minute and a half, same thing since 2005




    In every loss he has been sacked on the key drive late. But that's all his fault right?"

     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 3:41 PM EDT

    If you read his subsequent posts you can see he is referring to this season which is the basis for his question now.  He even posted the drive logs he is referring to.  IMO both the Seattle and Baltimore sacks had bad protection.


    Here is a video of the Seattle sack. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJBgOxMomtw

    Solder got beaten incredibly badly on that play and then fell on Tom as he was trying to escape.  I will try and dig up a video of the Baltimore one.

     

     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 3:52 PM EDT

    Found teh Bal one:

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000065665/Ravens-defense-sack-7-yd-loss

     

    I would say the Sea one was on the OL for sure and the Bal one the sack was the right call. The Pats had the lead at that point and needed to burn clock.

    In the Cards game he was never actually sacked in the final drive so right there Babe is wrong.

     

    So to tally

    in Cards loss - never sacked

    in Bal loss - taking sack was the wise move since they were trying to kill clock and had lead

    in Sea loss - sack was called by OL

     

    Only once in those 3 loses was throwing the ball away to avoid a sack the wise move and in that one case the OL was the direct result for the sack

     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 4:31 PM EDT

    I agree that Brady has not been "clutch lately", but really hasn't the whole team failed in these situations? Essentially, the way the offense plays in the last two minutes has been different basically since Josh McDaniels became offensive QB the first time, but really since the offensive success of 2007 went to their collective heads...

    Go back and look at the game-winning FG drive in Super Bowls 36 and 38. In the Rams Super Bowl, starting at their own 17 with no timeouts and 1:19 on the clock, the first three plays were dump offs to JR Redmond. The longest pass only about 15 yards in the air right over the middle (with no timeouts) and Troy Brown got out of bounds. In the Panthers game, the actually had an offensive PI and a 1st and 20 at their own 42 with :45 seconds to go. After, that again, nothing went more than about 15 yards in the air. Basically, the plays taking what the defense was giving them (13 yards to Brown along the sideline, 6 yard dump off to Graham, 18 yards to Branch along the sideline).

    Now, contrast the Super Bowl losses. They get the ball with :29 second and three timeouts in Super Bowl XLII needing a FG to tie. First play, the heave it to a covered Gaffney about 40 yards down field, next play, deep drop and a sack. Third play. Third down and 20 yards. Rather that just trying to get some of that yardage and call a timeout (still two left) they basically go for the win a 60 yard bomb to a triple covered Randy Moss. That play takes almost half of the time left on the clock. Now on fourth down, still with a time out, rather than try to just get the first and maybe try a hail mary they try another 60 yard bomb at least this time Moss was only double covered.

    Same thing last week versus the Seahawks. More than enough time and a FG wins the game. First play, thirty yard bomb to Lloyd out of bounds, deep drop and a sack, another incomplete and then too little too late to Welker. 

    The overall offense approach has changed from the Super winning teams. Combine that with the fact that the team has gotten better on offense (in terms of league rank) while getting worse on defense, and a team of Super Bowl Champions became the best team in the regular season, but not able to get it done when it counted (in my opinion, on either side of the ball).

     

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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 5:28 PM EDT

    In response to Mighty2013's comment:

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

    3 super bowl's and tied for most post season wins in NFL history... why can't brady win every game and every super bowl? maybe because he's human and we live in reality



    LOL.  This sums it up nicely.



    I still think this a flawed argument, the question people are asking is what has changed that he won those games in the early 2000s, but does not anymore. I don't expect him to win every game and every Super Bowl. I am asking what is different about this team that they went from winning as underdogs to losing as favorites? 

    The "most postseason wins" stats is bogus. How much of that is a function of simply being on a good team, and being the starting QB for now his 11th season (subracting the year he missed). Eight of those seasons he had top ten defense on the other side of the ball. Five of those seasons the defense was rank as high or better than the offense. In three of those seasons, the Patriots won the Super Bowl. 

    For as good as Tom Brady is (and I do believe he is one of the all-time top 5 QBs), he has not won anything accept regular statistical categories when the offense is better than the defense.

    Let's look at the years:

    2002 - Off 10th - Def 17th : missed playoffs

    2005 - Off 4th - Def 9th : lost divisional round

    2007 - Off 1st - Def 4th : lost Super Bowl

    2010 - Off 1st - Def 8th : lost divisional round

    2011 - Off 3rd - Def 15th : lost Super Bowl

    2012 - Off 1st - Def 15th : ??? (currently .500)

    Too summarize. In years where the offensive is better, Tom Brady in the playoffs is 5 - 4.

    In years, where the defense was as good or better, Tom Brady in the playoffs is 11 - 2.

     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 5:37 PM EDT

    Brady would be nothing without a supporting cast.  Here's the kicker though - i think one could argue that his offensive arsenal is bigger today than what it was in 2001.

    So, if that true - then he certainly hasn't been clutch in the 4th Quarter for some time now. IMO, when the offense was simpler - Brady did a better job of doing the little things: pump fakes, looking off receivers, and most importantly - hitting the open receiver.

    Today, even w/ all of his offensive weapons - he likes to hit the home run - even if forcing the issue. The result - more turnovers in the form of INTs.  Turnovers hurt the team - period.  Yes, I know tipped balls are not his fault.


    Even in his decline, it's good to have him on the team. It'd be better if went back to hitting the open guy and being more mindful of throwing INTs.

    There is going to be a day when the Patriots will have to move on without Brady.

     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 5:44 PM EDT

    In response to BubbaInHawaii's comment:

    Brady would be nothing without a supporting cast.  Here's the kicker though - i think one could argue that his offensive arsenal is bigger today than what it was in 2001.

    So, if that true - then he certainly hasn't been clutch in the 4th Quarter for some time now. IMO, when the offense was simpler - Brady did a better job of doing the little things: pump fakes, looking off receivers, and most importantly - hitting the open receiver.

    Today, even w/ all of his offensive weapons - he likes to hit the home run - even if forcing the issue. The result - more turnovers in the form of INTs.  Turnovers hurt the team - period.  Yes, I know tipped balls are not his fault.


    Even in his decline, it's good to have him on the team. It'd be better if went back to hitting the open guy and being more mindful of throwing INTs.

    There is going to be a day when the Patriots will have to move on without Brady.



    Are you serious?  In the 3 seasons we won the SB Brady threw 38 INTs.  From 2007 to the present a period spanning 70 games or almost 4.5 seasons he has thrown 40 INTs.  And that isn't even conisdering the fact that in all but one of those seasons (2010) we threw the ball more than any of the SB winning seasons.  This idea that Brady throws more INTs and doesn't throw to the open guy anymore is a myth.  His completion percentages have been higher in every season since 2007 than in the SB winning years.  Brady is one of the best in the history of the NFL when it comes to not turning the ball over.  SMH.

     

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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 6:19 PM EDT

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Are you serious?  In the 3 seasons we won the SB Brady threw 38 INTs.  From 2007 to the present a period spanning 70 games or almost 4.5 seasons he has thrown 40 INTs.  And that isn't even conisdering the fact that in all but one of those seasons (2010) we threw the ball more than any of the SB winning seasons.  This idea that Brady throws more INTs and doesn't throw to the open guy anymore is a myth.  His completion percentages have been higher in every season since 2007 than in the SB winning years.  Brady is one of the best in the history of the NFL when it comes to not turning the ball over.  SMH.



    That is the irony, the Patriots were a better team when Brady was statistically not a good.

    I do not think it is his decision making that is the whole problem. I think the overall team philosophy has been to try to get big chunks of yardage in those situations when there is no need. I broke this down earlier play by play, but there was no need to throw the ball 30-60 yards downfield three times at the end of Super Bowl 42. 

    Some of those raw numbers are deceiving over the course of Brady's career things have change and, plenty of QBs have been throwing for more yards, higher percentages and fewer picks:

    In 2001, his 86.5 passer rating put him 6th in the NFL, this year his 97.2 is currently 6th.

    In 2001, completing 63.9% of passes ranked 4th, this year his 65.8% is 10th. Of the top ten career completion percentage leaders, only Steve Young did not play in the 2000s.

    In 2002, 37.5 attempts per game put him third, this year 40.3 puts him fourth.

    In 2001, Peyton Manning was second in the NFL at 258 passing yards per game, this year that would be 15th!

    Of th top ten career int% rankings, nine of them are active players.

    The rules have changed and the game has changed, Brady's statistics have improved more than most, but most of the "better" numbers come from an overall change in how the game is played offensively.

    The rub of it all is that the Patriots (Brady and BB) have not figured out how win a championship in the "new" NFL.

     

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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/18/2012 11:58 PM EDT

    In response to Bunker Spreckels' comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    If you read his subsequent posts you can see he is referring to this season which is the basis for his question now.  He even posted the drive logs he is referring to.  IMO both the Seattle and Baltimore sacks had bad protection.


    Here is a video of the Seattle sack. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJBgOxMomtw

    Solder got beaten incredibly badly on that play and then fell on Tom as he was trying to escape.  I will try and dig up a video of the Baltimore one.

     



    You do realize if you don't drop back an obscene 58 times, dude. 58.....This means the odds for your OL to make a mistake or not be 100% perfect, go up..right?
    Nate Solder is to blame because on 58 drop backs in a shotgun he wasn't 100% perfect? Make sense much?

    You get this concept, right? It's called the odds. No team since 2007 has put more pressure on their O LIne than this team. No team.

    End of story.

    RUN THE BALL AND PUT BRADY  UNDER CENTER FOR 60% of games from here on out or people like you don't get to say jack squat. The ignorance is unparelled in any fanbase in sports right now, on ANY topic.

    Only a  portion of a fanbase madly in love with Tom Brady would see their team run amuck for 200 yards in 2 straight weeks and then not see why it's not's relevant to establish a run against a good D on the road in the toughest place in the NFL to play.

    GOOD EFFING GRIEF

    Read a book. My god almighty.




    YOUR ignorance is unparallelled. You can't just dictate run 60% of the time. Sometimes it is ineffective. This is as basic as football knowledge gets. Learn the game.

     

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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/19/2012 12:41 AM EDT

    brady used to be the most clutch qb in the league....he seems to have lost it.

     

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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/19/2012 12:48 AM EDT

    In response to JintsFan's comment:

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

    brady used to be the most clutch qb in the league....he seems to have lost it.




    HAVING A PROFESSIONAL DEFENSE HELPS

    OH AND ADAM VINITIERI



    this is true, but gostkowski has been good with the exception of the arizona botched kick....he is no adam vinatieri though you are right....and yes the defense sucks, but if you have the ball late in a game, it doesnt matter if its 17-17 or 31-27 or any close score, he just hasnt been as clutch late in the games as he used to be....he is still a very good qb, but not the ice in his veins clutch player that he used to be.

     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Is Brady Clutch? Great Article

    posted at 10/19/2012 1:31 AM EDT

    In response to danemcmenamin's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    He no longer has a defense that guarantees he will be within a fg of a tie or a win.  That was the Brady magic. 



    Well this is absolute lies, the offense hasn't executed at the end of games since the cowboy game last year. I don't know why and it sucks to admit it but i'm sure the problem is being addressed at  the minute. UD6 if you're going to be here on this forum please at least write things that are true we've lost 3 games by 4 points in all of which the offense has stunk up the 4th quarter. Just leave if all you're here for is to take digs at Brady's legacy i.e. if Peyton had the D Brady had he'd have won the superbowl more....basically your constant point on this forum!!



    The offense was actually good in the 4th quarter of the Cardinals game. They scored 9 points in that corner (they should have had 12). They outscored the Cardinals 9-7 and scored as many points in the 4th as they did the rest of the game.