Is elite QB really that important?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mike-J-D. Show Mike-J-D's posts

    Is elite QB really that important?

    I've been wondering if having an "elite" stat-making QB is really that important.  With the rules Goodell has put in place, it's easier than ever to play the poisition if you don't ask them to do too much..  Lately we've seen guys like Flacco, E. Manning (2), Roethlisberger (2), win SBs.  

    Common thread here is that they just manage the game.  Get good line play, run the ball, take the easy throws, throw to guys who are wide open or mismatched so only the WR can make a play on it.  Don't take high risk throws and don't turn the ball over in the playoffs.  They also tend to have fast, if not particulary skilled WRs to go down the field to.  They don't try to thow receivers open.  

    QBs who are asked to do more for their teams, we all know the names... win some, lose some but the scales don't seem to be tipped in their favor like you'd think.  Obviously you aren't ever going to win long term with a Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, or Vick turning the ball over every other series and making high risk throws, but you also don't seem to need an elite QB either.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    All the elite QBs do exactly what you said in the first part of the comment it is exactly what makes them Elite. It also helps that they have better than average RBs and WRs. As well as a decent defense.

    guys like Sanchez, Freeman, Vick, etc.... Have not learned How to manage the game as you stated. Once a QB tries to do too much they will lose in most cases.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mike-J-D. Show Mike-J-D's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    All the elite QBs do exactly what you said in the first part of the comment it is exactly what makes them Elite. It also helps that they have better than average RBs and WRs. As well as a decent defense.

    guys like Sanchez, Freeman, Vick, etc.... Have not learned How to manage the game as you stated. Once a QB tries to do too much they will lose in most cases.




    I guess it depends on how you define elite then.  Not really trying to get into that, but the degree of difficulty in what these guys do is not the same as what the elite guys (in my mind) do. 

    It doesn't seem like you need an elite guy to win.  You can win with a guy who doesn't play like an idiot if he has a very good team around him even if he doesn't have quite as much skill as an elite guy.  The elite QB doesn't trump all, which seems to be the perception.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    flacco had 11 td's and zero int's in this years playoffs, yes its important.

     

    we have an elite qb, too bad he hasnt played like one in the playoffs for a few years.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    TB be is a great QB. Not sure he is elite any more. And stop shoving stats at me to prove his eliteness. Stats don't always equate.  Elite QBs figure out how to win SB games. He, along with the Pats have failed to do so for many years now.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    Not elite...what you need is a CLUTCH QB to win it all. Ya know what Brady used to be in playoffs with 14 TD and 3 picks in his 10-0 start in playoff games. Since then he has almost as many INTs as TDs in his 7-7 playoff record....

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    In response to ccsjl's comment:

    Not elite...what you need is a CLUTCH QB to win it all. Ya know what Brady used to be in playoffs with 14 TD and 3 picks in his 10-0 start in playoff games. Since then he has almost as many INTs as TDs in his 7-7 playoff record....



    IMO, being a clutch makes you elite.

    Call me crazy,

    but excelling in the post season is more impressive than piling numbers against dumpy teams in the regular season

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    Flacco is a very good QB with a ton of offensive weapons.  If you gave TB that set of receivers to throw to his postseason numbers would be comparable.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    In response to nyjoseph's comment:

    Flacco is a very good QB with a ton of offensive weapons.  If you gave TB that set of receivers to throw to his postseason numbers would be comparable.



    Brady has very good weapons. Before this post season, you would probably take Brady's weapons over Flacco's.

    Brady also had great weapons in 2007 and didn't put numbers remotely close to what Flacco did.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    Here's why I think it is still important:

    The concept of elite may get thrown around WAY too much and too fast now because the media is tired of complimenting the Manning, Brady, Rodgers types.  That's true.  They're always going to look for the next name they can talk about just so it's new to them to do so.

    But, also, the rule changes have deepened the crop of good QBs in the league, too.  So, if you don't have a solid/decent one who may grow into a good or even great one, you're still in trouble because so many teams will have one now.

    Look at the Jets and Sanchez. They tried your approach and if you aren't talented, you still aren't going to make it even with Goodell's rule changes.

    So, I don't know it "elite" is the need, but abover average and consistent, absolutely.  The Dilfer, Brad Johnson, etc, QBs aren't winning SBs ever again.

     

     

     



    I agree with this 100%. "Elite" has become a very vague phrase nowadays when talking about QBs. As long as you have an above average QB who can make most of the throws and (this is key) not turn the ball over, you can go far and maybe win it all. 

    I also think if you surround a QB with the right WRs and TEs, they can excel above their level. Look at what Boldin and T. Smith did for Flacco.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from markrahobeth. Show markrahobeth's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    The problem with an elite QB is the elite price tag.  The Pats had more money to work with, under the cap, when Brady was making the salary of a sixth round pick.  The money could be used to meet other needs. 

    Of course Brady is still elite but now they pay him as such and there is a lot less money to go around.  Simple economics, really.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    Any ideas on who would be an ideal team (or teams) for Alex Smith? 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mike-J-D. Show Mike-J-D's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    Here's why I think it is still important:

    The concept of elite may get thrown around WAY too much and too fast now because the media is tired of complimenting the Manning, Brady, Rodgers types.  That's true.  They're always going to look for the next name they can talk about just so it's new to them to do so.

    But, also, the rule changes have deepened the crop of good QBs in the league, too.  So, if you don't have a solid/decent one who may grow into a good or even great one, you're still in trouble because so many teams will have one now.

    Look at the Jets and Sanchez. They tried your approach and if you aren't talented, you still aren't going to make it even with Goodell's rule changes.

    So, I don't know it "elite" is the need, but abover average and consistent, absolutely.  The Dilfer, Brad Johnson, etc, QBs aren't winning SBs ever again.

     

     

     

     




    This is pretty much my point.  All you need is a solid guy if you have a solid team.  A guy who may not turn a bad team good but a guy who can just keep a good team good.  You can win with this.  Consistency and decision making is key.  I don't think you need a top 4 guy and having one guarantees nothing. 

     

    The Jets, though, did the opposite of my approach.  They overrated a guy who wasn't that good, paid him too much and asked him to do things he and the team around him wasn't capable of. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    On a side note...while I believe Brady has just been bad in the past few postseasons (aside from Denver last year and Houston this year), seeing Boldin make a couple of those catches yesterday made me  want a tall, physical WR who can go up and catch it even more.

     

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mike-J-D. Show Mike-J-D's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    In response to markrahobeth's comment:

    The problem with an elite QB is the elite price tag.  The Pats had more money to work with, under the cap, when Brady was making the salary of a sixth round pick.  The money could be used to meet other needs. 

    Of course Brady is still elite but now they pay him as such and there is a lot less money to go around.  Simple economics, really.




    So what's going to happen to Baltimore now that Flacco reportedly wants Drew Brees money?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from clouts. Show clouts's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    Go figure.  When TB was just a "game manager", they won.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to nyjoseph's comment:

     

    Flacco is a very good QB with a ton of offensive weapons.  If you gave TB that set of receivers to throw to his postseason numbers would be comparable.

     




    Here we go:

     

    Last year and this year, people were on here saying how overrated Flacco is and how their  offense has no stars, etc. The Giants were talked about in a similar fashion.

    Their offense is run with better balance.

    What was the first play of the game for Balt? Checkdown to the FB, Vonta Leach. Case closed.

    THAT right there is what we don't do. We don't have a QB who is willing to spread the ball around like that and include the entire roster as options during a game from a receiving standpoint.

    They simply handle their personnel better and it's MOSTLY because Flacco isn't running his offense with full autonomy like Brady does here. In fact, I am shocked Harbaugh gives Kaepernick that much control as a rookie. Huge mistake as we saw on the final drive.

    Our own team has the balance and receivers/targets, etc, but we have a QB who isn't running our offense as efficiently as a Flacco.

    There are no excuses for Brady anymore.  It's up to our QB to do what Flacco just did which is to not throw picks, manage the game, use the run game, target all options, etc.

    The more balanced an offense, the tougher it is to defend.  Pretty simple stuff. We won 3 SBs with the recipe.

    One more thing: It's getting awfully old with Brady pretending our offense needs to be this precise and complex thing all the time to the point this rapport with Brady can only be developed with receivers who run across the middle or run in between the hashes.

    He got so used to standing up like a statue in a pocket for 7 seconds in 2007, he thinks that's what he has to have on every passing down now.

    Absolute truth.

     

     This is the thing that bothers me.  I'm tired of receivers having to be mind readers in order to play with Brady now.  

    When the draft gurus talk about possible wr's for NE's offense there is always this caveat: 

    Can he earn Brady's trust?

    What kind of crap is that?   That is why some of us would not be all that sad to see Welker go.  Brady depends on him WAY too much.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     




     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Is elite QB really that important?

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

    flacco had 11 td's and zero int's in this years playoffs, yes its important.

     

    we have an elite qb, too bad he hasnt played like one in the playoffs for a few years.




    Too bad the team around him hasn't showed up so he could play at an elite level. Learn the game Rusty Clone.

     
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