is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    This will be my last statement regarding this.

    As predicted, this will come down to a troubled young man who could not adapt to the violent game that is the NFL. Some of it is over blown, some is flat out wrong and some is behavior Martin never had an issue with before.

    You can not play in the NFL unless you are the toughest of the tough. You think BP was joking when he said there are no choir boys in the NFL.

    Agree with it or not at the end of the day it's what clearly separates Football from Soccer and it's why the NFL is the number one sport in America. And if the goody two shoes think they can force the pass the grey poupon civility into the NFL locker rooms they are only fooling themselves.

    If I hired someone to recuit me some of the meanest, toughest SOBs on the planet NFL locker rooms would be prime recuiting ground.

    That's the way it has been, that's the way it is and that's the way it will stay.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This will be my last statement regarding this.

    As predicted, this will come down to a troubled young man who could not adapt to the violent game that is the NFL. Some of it is over blown, some is flat out wrong and some is behavior Martin never had an issue with before.

    You can not play in the NFL unless you are the toughest of the tough. You think BP was joking when he said there are no choir boys in the NFL.

    Agree with it or not at the end of the day it's what clearly separates Football from Soccer and it's why the NFL is the number one sport in America. And if the goody two shoes think they can force the pass the grey poupon civility into the NFL locker rooms they are only fooling themselves.

    If I hired someone to recuit me some of the meanest, toughest SOBs on the planet NFL locker rooms would be prime recuiting ground.

    That's the way it has been, that's the way it is and that's the way it will stay.

    [/QUOTE]


    well said.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHAMPSXLVIII. Show CHAMPSXLVIII's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    Everybody here is taking great moral stands and bragging about how good a person they are. 

    The right thing to do is not judge without all the  evidence. When you form an opinion with partial evidence and then  more evidence is added your opinion doesn't change.

     

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This will be my last statement regarding this.

    As predicted, this will come down to a troubled young man who could not adapt to the violent game that is the NFL. Some of it is over blown, some is flat out wrong and some is behavior Martin never had an issue with before.

    You can not play in the NFL unless you are the toughest of the tough. You think BP was joking when he said there are no choir boys in the NFL.

    Agree with it or not at the end of the day it's what clearly separates Football from Soccer and it's why the NFL is the number one sport in America. And if the goody two shoes think they can force the pass the grey poupon civility into the NFL locker rooms they are only fooling themselves.

    If I hired someone to recuit me some of the meanest, toughest SOBs on the planet NFL locker rooms would be prime recuiting ground.

    That's the way it has been, that's the way it is and that's the way it will stay.

    [/QUOTE]


    We'll see. Whether you're right will be determined by whether someone is made accountable, who is made accountable and how much they will be made accountable. I doubt things will stay the way they are if someone like a high level manager/coach gets fired, a player is banned from the NFL, and/or the incident costs the Dolphins and/or the NFL a lot of money. 

    Bottomline is that there was systemically abusive behavior that perhaps crossed legal lines and society will not tolerate. Just because most in the organization bought into the abusive culture does not mean it is okay. 

    If this costs the Dolphins or the NFL serious money, that means recurrence in the future will cost the NFL and whatever team involved more serious money. 

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

         No...it isn't "wrong lean against Martin". My guess is that he has some emotional problems, and was too soft to cut it in the NFL. 

         The genesis of this problem was management's foolish decision to let LT Jake Long go, and instead use the big money saved on Long to sign WR Mike Wallace. They also passed on OT Lane Johnson in favor of DE Dion Jordan. This forced the 'Fins to sink or swim with Martin at LT. When Martin missed two out of the 12 "voluntary" OTA's, management should have had some indication that they made a mistake. But, by then, the 'Fins were so thin at OT that they were commited to Martin as their new LT, and tried to force feed him into the position. When he wasn't getting the job done in the preseason, management went to Richie Incognito, asking him to take Martin under his wing, and try to toughen him up.

         Then...what happened, happened. Frankly, I don't see this situation as much different than hundreds of other that have taken place in NFL locker rooms over the past 30 years. Those of you who have played football at any level know how it is. There are always some players who try to test (bully) others...and the only way out of this is to take a stand. I mentioned rookie OT Lane Johnson, above. The way Philly has handled his development has been recently compared with Martin's, in an interesting article: http://articles.philly.com/2013-11-07/sports/43779613_1_lane-johnson-jonathan-martin-richie-incognito

         Football is not a sport for the timid and faint hearted. The game is based on blocking, tackling, execution, and intimidation. Folks..."the QB must go down, and must go down hard". WRs who cross the middle of the field do so at their own risk. Trash talking and threats are freely exchanged at the line of scrimmage...and many times, one player can intimidate another. It is part of the sport.

         That said, though the Dolphins may not know it yet...they are "dead men walking". Once our beloved Commissioner hired a liberal Harvard lawyer to lead an investigation into the matter, rest assured that this will be the second coming of Bountygate...only worse. Richie Incognito is through. The 'Fins head coach, OL coach, and GM will be heavily fined, and will likely be suspended...along with other players who were deemed to have created a hostile work environment for "poor" Mr. Martin. A lawsuit will be averted only because the 'Fins will pay Martin off. But...this unfortunate precendent will remain, as our beloved Commissioner, lawyers, judges, politicians, and the media get more and more involved with every aspect of each teams' business. 

         Yes folks...look for more wonderfully confining rules and regulations are coming the NFL's way, which will give the referees even more power to decide games, and continue to tear away at the game we all know and love...until football is no longer football as we know it. 

        

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    Martin, when this became too much, should have broken Incognito's nose and made it clear that the BS was ending right then and there.  You pick out the biggest one and smash them in the face.

    He let it continue.  Letting that continue means it will get worse not better.  

    Stanford didn't prepare Martin for the NFL locker room and the stuff that rarely gets publicized. 

    The Sun Sentinel reported that it was Miami's coaches who told Incognito to toughen Martin up. Martin was too easily taken out of the game by insults and verbal abuse.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sobchack. Show Sobchack's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    There's no right POV about any of this, except for the racial slurs which are inexcusable.  

    Sorry, this isn't about "wimps" and "tough guys."  Not in a for-profit corporate team of highly paid adult men playing a game.  This isn't even an actual battlefield where stress can make men do and say ugly things.

    Oh, it's sports culture?  Well, heck, these same pro athletes are role models for kids.  Part of their job is to go to local hospitals, schools, and support charities in the spirit of goodwill to their fans and their city.  What example to they send kids by behaving like this.  As a parent, I recall the look on my 8-year-old's face when he fully grasped the Hernandez situation.  Sat him down and explained it the best I could.  To his credit, he completely understood it, but it was the disappointment on his face that got to me.

    GM Ireland is a fool.  He's the boss.  It's on his watch.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    In response to Sobchack's comment:

    There's no right POV about any of this, except for the racial slurs which are inexcusable.  

    Sorry, this isn't about "wimps" and "tough guys."  Not in a for-profit corporate team of highly paid adult men playing a game.  This isn't even an actual battlefield where stress can make men do and say ugly things.

    Oh, it's sports culture?  Well, heck, these same pro athletes are role models for kids.  Part of their job is to go to local hospitals, schools, and support charities in the spirit of goodwill to their fans and their city.  What example to they send kids by behaving like this.  As a parent, I recall the look on my 8-year-old's face when he fully grasped the Hernandez situation.  Sat him down and explained it the best I could.  To his credit, he completely understood it, but it was the disappointment on his face that got to me.

    GM Ireland is a fool.  He's the boss.  It's on his watch.



    It may be the current culture, but that doesn't mean the culture is essential or can't change. I also don't think that all teams share an identical culture.  One thing you hear constantly from players who come to New England is how, on the Patriots, "it's all business."  We know there's light-hearted hazing (rookie hair cuts and other mild pranks) and we know that players and coaches use strong language all the time, but there appears to be an underlying culture of respect, seriousness, and professionalism that clearly stands out to new players on the team--so much so, in fact, that nearly all of them seem compelled to the point out how different New England is from other places they've played.  The Pats' success certainly hasn't been hindered by this culture of professionalism.  Quite the opposite.  The Dolphins, however, have been a losing team for years. Maybe that says something about what's really essential to a winning locker room culture--and what's really not. 

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are 51 other guys in that locker room that could have talked to incognito...they didn't.

    It's a private club...to harsh for you...move on...

    [/QUOTE]

    It is also a workplace like anyother. By your logic MLB should be still segregated.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He was left alone at lunch...I had no idea to the extent of such horror...oh the humanity.

    And to think all this time I thought it was some minor issue...I'm not worthy....

    [/QUOTE]


    lol...   And to think his best (boy)friend would call him names...  Unspeakable horror.  The league , the sports media, every news show should cover this every minute of the day...  I am worried for their children,  their grandchildren, their great grandchildren....  their grand parents... their uncles ,  aunts... neices..... 

    I need to stop.  (deep breath)  OK carry on.  Ill try.

    [/QUOTE]


    Wow ... I'm still not over it.  (deep breath)  .   I think Ill make it.   the kids...  How will they process this...?  Damaged for life no doubt.   I can't talk about it any more....  (deep breath)  ... 

    I hope every news show continues covering this evry minute of the day...  And the league should fine and suspend everybody and take away a first round pick and make sure nobody ever calls another person a bad name or say bad things about another persons mother....  ever, ever, ever again. 

    Especially if theyre gay and mad that they might get turned out since the leageue can't handle gayness in hteir locker rooms... worst of all...  (gasp)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: is it WRONG to be leaning against MARTIN?

    None of you have ever been in a situation where you were being 'bullied' by more than one person?  It's not a 'man up' thing that actually happens to people - you have to deal with it.

    If you were did you wait two years to do something about it? Whatever it was did you let it continue for TWO years? 

    This has EVERYTHING to do with being tough one way or the other. Sitting there and taking it shows someone has NO mental toughness whether it was to physically put an end to it or go to management and say this all needs to stop. 

    They nicknamed him 'Big Wierdo'.  I mean did that come out of left field?  

    I'd love to see one of you guys cower back to the sideline literally crying to the coach that the guy you're blocking is calling you names.

    The best analogy I can think of is your house is broken into while you are home.

    Do you:

    A - Grab your gun and protect yourself and your family, or

    B - Dial 911 and get everyone into the safe room, or

    C - Ball up on the ground and start crying

     
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