is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    In Response to Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?:
    Don't care what you are or believe.  This man loves his wife, his family and his Patriots.  Can't ask for more than that. http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4716746/video-emotional-time-for-kraft
    Posted by pezz4pats


    +1
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    I think a lot of people around the world are unaware that there still exists a considerable minority of Isrealis that oppose the settlements, the ethnic cleansing, human rights violations and so forth in that region.  

    I am not certain if the Krafts are direct supporters of such actions, so I won't speak to such alledged actions.  

    I do realize as a middle-aged human that most people possess some balance of good and bad, some more the latter, some more the former.  I have yet to find a pure person.

    And I get what you mean about the bastardization of the term, "Anti-Semitic."

    Right now, this week, I aim to focus on the positive forces of which I know of the Pats Charity, Myra, Bob and the general success of the team.

    I won't dimiss your concern.  I would suggest that if it is important to you, you should write a letter to Mr. Kraft and advise him of your views, maybe make some suggestions, share any direct knowledge you have.

    One last thing,  I don't want to rationalize, but to keep things in context, the Palestinians are suffering the consequences of avidly supporting the Nazis in WWII.  OK, so no other people have been punished as much for that poor choosing of sides, but my point is that they don't have a completely innocent hand in relatively recent history.  Both parties have a share of blame in their shared misery and suffering, with the main players being politicians playing fiddle to their respective audiences, lining their pockets (both leaderships are notoriously corrupt), and extending the conflict so as to keep the gravy flowing.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    In Response to Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?:
    In Response to Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive? : Just for clarity sake, are you referring to my post or his?
    Posted by ATJ


    His
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    In Response to Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?:
    sorry for the delay i had to step out for a bit. to elaborate on my OP- yes, it has a lot to do with the palestinian/isreali conflict. unfortunately, not many people are aware of it, and many who are aware don't know much aside from what they hear or see on american television. sure the krafts have donated to charitable causes. however, committing a moral act or acts doesn't necessarrilly make one an overall moral person. this is why we don't consider people like al capone or pablo escobar as philanthropists even though they gave a considerable amount to "their communities" and causes they supported. IMO the krafts are hypocrites, and not worthy of being celebrated or worshipped. if anyone is interested in the palestine/israel conflict and would like to learn more to understand just how morally corrupt israel and their supporters then please try these sources.... "jewish history, jewish religion, the weight of three thousand years" - israel shahak   "beyond chutzpah" - norman finkelstein for an understanding of the malice of the israeli army (IDF) all one needs to do is visit one of the several well known human rights organizations websites. For example: B'Tselem - israeli human rights organization http://www.btselem.org/ amnesty international - http://www.amnestyusa.org/ human rights watch - http://www.hrw.org/ when visiting these sites i would recommend specifically researching "operation cast lead" I'm just looking for some moral consistency, and the kraft's do not show it.
    Posted by ricky12684


    So that they have supported Israel by starting a football program and other such things such as philanthropy work   YOU automatically believe they support all that which you believe is wrong with the Israel/Palestine conflict. That is a major jump to make.
    Would that be like an Irainian give support and money to the causes of women in Iran a supporter of all Iran has done or is doing? 

    Does that mean anyone who gives their support to the people or organization of any country a supporter of all that country does or doesn't do?

    Is Sean Penn for all the work he is doing in Haiti a supporter of the government of Haiti?

    The answer of course is NO to all my questions.
    So unless you have hard facts that the Krafts have supported anything resembling the attrocities going on between both sides of the conflict I you should recant your unsubstantiated comment.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    You can take this home and drop it at your own doorstep.

    A lot of people in this country would be shocked, disbelieving or angry if they read here that the U.S. is among the worst of genocidal aggressors in world history, both for the millions upon millions of Native Americans we "ethnically cleansed" over 250 years, and for the people in our theaters of recent or active military operation (Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Columbia) in which we have used illegal depleted uranium weapons that have killed hundreds of thousands over the past 22 years and will kill tens of millions with fall-out over the decades to follow.  In the end, we may kill even more people than even Mao.

    So by their ignorance - most Americans - does that mean you should accuse them of hypocrisy, celebrating "democracy and human rights" while secretly supporting high crimes against humanity?  Or do you realize that they just don't know or can't possibly conceive it would be possible that the U.S. is capable of such crimes, let alone is actually doing them, using their tax dollars to do them?  And if they donate money to buy prosthetics for vets, are they directly supporting these genocidal crimes?

    That's just not the way the real world works.  You are judging based upon utopian ideals, not human realities.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    Hey Rick both sides have dirt on their hands. It is not just Israel. Remember Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map. The PLO and Hamas are lobbing mortar at Israel.
    This is not something that is only 50 years old. This has been a running scenario in the ME since Moses and before that.
    The ethnic cleansing is on both sides.

    As for the Hitler connection:
    http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/arabnazi.html

    Once in Berlin, the Mufti received an enthusiastic reception by the "Islamische Zentralinstitut" and the whole Islamic community of Germany, which welcomed him as the "Führer of the Arabic world." In an introductory speech, he called the Jews the "most fierce enemies of the Muslims" and an "ever corruptive element" in the world. Husseini soon became an honored guest of the Nazi leadership and met on several occasions with Hitler. He personally lobbied the Führer against the plan to let Jews leave Hungary, fearing they would immigrate to Palestine. He also strongly intervened when Adolf Eichman tried to cut a deal with the British government to exchange German POWs for 5000 Jewish children who also could have fled to Palestine. The Mufti's protests with the SS were successful, as the children were sent to death camps in Poland instead. One German officer noted in his journals that the Mufti would liked to have seen the Jews "preferably all killed." On a visit to Auschwitz, he reportedly admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently. Throughout the war, he appeared regularly on German radio broadcasts to the Middle East, preaching his pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic message to the Arab masses back home.

    To show gratitude towards his hosts, in 1943 the Mufti travelled several times to Bosnia, where on orders of the SS he recruited the notorious "Hanjar troopers," a special Bosnian Waffen SS company which slaugh-tered 90% of Bosnia's Jews and burned countless Serbian churches and villages. These Bosnian Muslim recruits rapidly found favor with SS chief Heinrich Himmler, who established a special Mullah Military school in Dresden.

    The only condition the Mufti set for his help was that after Hitler won the war, the entire Jewish population in Palestine should be liquidated. After the war, Husseini fled to Switzerland and from there escaped via France to Cairo, were he was warmly received. The Mufti used funds received earlier from the Hilter regime to finance the Nazi-inspired Arab Liberation Army that terrorized Jews in Palestine.


    The Arab Embrace of Nazism:

    Husseini represents the prevalent pro-Nazi posture among the Arab/Muslim world before, during and even after the Holocaust. The Nazi-Arab connection existed even when Adolf Hitler first seized power in Germany in 1933. News of the Nazi takeover was welcomed by the Arab masses with great enthusiasm, as the first congratulatory telegrams Hitler received upon being appointed Chancellor came from the German Consul in Jerusalem, followed by those from several Arab capitals. Soon afterwards, parties that imitated the National Socialists were founded in many Arab lands, like the "Hisb-el-qaumi-el-suri" (PPS) or Social Nationalist Party in Syria. Its leader, Anton Sa'ada, styled himself the Führer of the Syrian nation, and Hitler became known as "Abu Ali" (In Egypt his name was "Muhammed Haidar"). The banner of the PPS displayed the swastika on a black-white background. Later, a Lebanese branch of the PPS – which still receives its orders from Damascus – was involved in the assassination of Lebanese President Pierre Gemayel.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    We interrupt this overly serious thread for the following commerical:

    For a great laugh, please read, "A vison of how this Super Bowl will go down," thread.   Or as Frank said, "Get on the bus...you'll love it."
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    Again it is a major jump to make from donations to colleges even pro Israeli ones to say that they believe in ETHNIC Cleansing.Yes they may believe that the holacaust should never be forgotten. However I look at it as making people realize that no one should look the other way when any segment of a population is being systematically removed. As did many countries prior to and during WWII.

    BTW any college you send your kids to will include a BIAS from all teachers on all subjects they teach especially political. Hell even english teachers have their bias on what time in literature was the best and worst and who were the best and worst writers.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    In Response to Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?:
    Again it is a major jump to make from donations to colleges even pro Israeli ones to say that they believe in ETHNIC Cleansing.Yes they may believe that the holacaust should never be forgotten. However I look at it as making people realize that no one should look the other way when any segment of a population is being systematically removed. As did many countries prior to and during WWII. BTW any college you send your kids to will include a BIAS from all teachers on all subjects they teach especially political. Hell even english teachers have their bias on what time in literature was the best and worst and who were the best and worst writers.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida

    I had a professor of journalism that expressed one such bias on the final question of a final exam:

    Who is the most evil in world history:

    a) Adolph Hitler

    b) Pol Pot

    c) Satan

    d) Neil Diamond

    Yeah, you guessed the correct answer - d.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    Believe me, I have talked several young guys out of joining the military, enlightening them about what they'd really being fighting to support.  I've also done the (fruitless) peace rally thing, had dozens of letters-to-the-editor published to make people aware, gotten in countless heated arguments over these topics with a few ignorant family members, and many ignorant co-workers or employers, plus more than my share on news boards, etc., etc., etc.

    But I don't equate people's ignorance with hypocrisy.  It is a very tricky, misleading media world (got my reporting degree). The tricks never end.  People don't know what to believe and who to trust.  They just don't have the time and resources to know everything right and wrong about the world. And I think it reckless to skip stepping stones to draw your conclusions about the Krafts. Such reckless denunciations are the very things that history's greatest thinkers abhorred.  You mean to be enlightened, but you suffer the same petty weaknesses as those of which you accuse your targets of possessing, though you mean well...like Bob and Myra meant well.

    See?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from CharlestonDude. Show CharlestonDude's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    Yawn.  Please talk about some newsworthy, the Patriots. Go some where else and be smart.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    Maybe at the high school level, but I got my single-greatest block of knowledge on this subject from a dynamite Phd. at Community College of R.I.  An American school, publicly run.

    Sorry, man, but this is a poor week and a poor forum for your sometimes reasoned, sometimes flawed statements.  You have obviously done a lot of homework on the subject, but you are in the wrong classroom.  That is world history.  This is physical education.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CharlestonDude. Show CharlestonDude's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    That's the best comment you made so far...I will...later.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expertmike. Show expertmike's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    In Response to Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?:
    theres no such thing as a jew named ricky
    Posted by seymonster

    ==================
    Ha. +1

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    In Response to Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?:
    In Response to Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive? : haha... and i'm the anti-semetic one here? oh boy why don't you post that under your main moniker? 15 posts in 5 years as a member and i just happen to be lucky enough to get one of them? hahaha you insult your own intelligence when you insult my intelligence. OP successfully thrown off topic. congrats.
    Posted by ricky12684

    Please grind your ax elsewhere.  

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    You are patronizing me and I don't like it.  

    I am pretty well read in history.  Got an "A" in every college history course I ever took, which was eight or nine, got my degree in reporting from a respected journalism school, and interned for an online newspaper with free reign over all of the wires. You presume to think you know what I know and others know, and that is a sure sign of stupidity.

    My professor at CCRI was far from pro-Israel.  Middle East studies was not on the agenda, but the Gulf War was about to start so she spent half the semester educating us on the players, the recent and ancient history, the various factions of various religions and so forth.  But I knew a great deal about this stuff before I ever studied it formally.

    I later learned in my own study about the organ harvesting of adopted Third World babies, and the IDF harvesting organs for the black market.  Real ugly stuff.  But when you learn about such things, you have to put them in context and realize that you are studying the actions of a miniscule, miniscule fraction of a large general population, actions of greed and selfishness from the kind of sociopaths and psychopaths present in every society - including (GASP!) - Palestinians, like those that helped the Nazis and wanted to exterminate Jews  as a backlash to the then 60-year-old Zionist movement.  

    Look man, you are showing up to a party and insulting the hosts behind their back, accusing them of being hypocritical supporters of genocide and ethnic cleansing while talking to their adoring guests, all while you eat their cutlets and drink their wine.  It is repulsive.  

    You are not half as wise nor intelligent as you would wish we thought you.  There is book knowledge, and then there is wisdom.  You are self-assured to a fault on the former, and display not a particle of the later.

    Done now.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    ricky, you've got your views, you're entitled to them and hypocritical though this country may be, in this country you have constituional protection to express them.  My suggestion to you is that you ride your high horse in a political forum somewhere other than a football forum.  Most of us here appreciate what the Krafts have done for this football team.  Many of us here believe they have supported a variety of philanthropic causes; you do not.  Fine. But kindly pay those of us who do appreciate what the Krafts have done the respect that we deserve by respecting our right to hold on our own views.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: is support for the patriots and support for the kraft's mutually exclusive?

    Run by the fans? 

    You don't mind last place do you? That's where this team would end up. 
     
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