Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

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    Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    So, BB appears to have gone all in:

    He drafted a whole bunch of defensive players in the recent draft, designated a Defensive Coordinator, and added a whole bunch of free agents during the off season. These are most of the things some fans have been clamoring for for several years now.

    Does Patricia have enough in his grocery bag to make enough improvements so that the Patriots D can win some games for the Patriots this year? Good enough Talent? Enough playmakers?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    I think the O is so loaded that it won't matter.  That said I do think they will be much better making for some very lopsided wins.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    I think Hightower and Bequette are both studs and will make an immediate impact on the D.  I think if Dowling can stay healthy and Denard can stay out of jail, this D has the potential to be a top 20 D next year, top 15 the year after.  Yes, they will help win some games.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    I think the D won some games for us last year, especially in the playoffs.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    On paper they are already better and hopefully that ends up being the same on the football fields on Sundays. If they become similar to the defenses they had when they won the Super Bowls then the answer is a big YES. But if they don't then they'll continue to depend on the great offense they currently have. But it sure would be great to see all three phases of their team clicking and winning as team.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    Some people say we had a historically bad defense last year and it's just not true. A historically bad defense would not have had a part in winning 15 games and in making it to the super bowl.

    This is the year the D will win the super bowl!
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    I think that the way BB runs his D, they get maligned by the fans and the press.  In terms of points allowed when it counts, versus defensive points manufactured when it counts, the Patriots have stacked up as a top ten NFL defense in the past few years. 

    In terms of points allowed when it doesn't count that much (late in the fourth quarter when ahead by three scores, for example) they aren't as good.  That's because they're playing prevent.  There's a joke that the prevent defense and prevent offense prevents you from winning, but take a look at the win-loss record.

    In terms of yards allowed when points aren't immediately on the line, the D gives them up in droves.  Again, the defense's goals are somewhat different from the football raw statistics prognosticators.  A victory is forward.  A loss is backward.  All yardage is not created equal.

    As for this year, BB reached up for two guys who will start immediately and have an impact.  Both guys can pass-rush.  Third rounder Bequette will be in the pass rush mix on passing downs.  Does anyone see a trend here?  BB has had it with anyone named Manning throwing downfield at will.  Or at Sam and Mike.  Apparently pounding the quarterback with a bunch of 270 pound guys who can seriously accelerate before impact (that's the key!) has an effect on throwing.  Batting passes up in the air has its own effect on the quarterback.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    Depends if Carter comes back.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    Depends if Carter comes back.
    Posted by 49Patriots


    I totally agree that Carter coming back would be HUGE.  It would keep the pass rushers fresh and give us depth if there is an injury.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    Belichick just spent 6 picks on the defensive front and the safety position, easily the weakest position on this team. He added a reliable vet safety (Gregory) and defensive end/tackle (Fanene) just in case.

    One thing we can be sure of, the offense alone certainly won't beat the Giant's in the Super Bowl so we NEED the defense to be dominant.  

    Better defense, McDaniel's more efficient offense = Super Bowl win
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    Majority of the guys on our defense are on the upswing. Brandon Spikes, Patrick Chung, Kyle Love, Ras I Dowling, 1st Year McCourty, and possibly Jermaine Cunningham and the playoff Sterling Moore. With the rookies coming in and Trevor Scott and Fanene coming in our DEFENSE should drastically improve. If these guys continue to progress, we will be a much better team. That should be very scary to the rest of the league.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    I think the D won some games for us last year, especially in the playoffs.
    Posted by Ender587


    Which playoff game did they win for us again?
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    BB threw just about everything he had at a bad D. Here's hoping he hit a few HRs with his choices.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    ALL:

    I think stommper actually nailed this one, in some thread he created regarding Belichick largely passing the vaster majority of the Head Coaching gameday decisions on the Offensive side of the ball, into Josh McD's hands.  BB's gonna make it imho, His ABSOLUTE first priority, responsibility, and more complete focus, to turn this NE D into something fierce...

    Kansas began a thread discussing how Belichick can be now absolved of any responsibility based on the successes he's had in acquiring a pretty sweet depth of potential talent in this Free Agency, higher-end playmakers in this Draft, and a fuller staff of NE Coaches this year in order to maximize and general this team...  True, I'm LOVIN' what BB did- A Grade this offseason when you combine these 3 vast improvements.  And the player's GOTTA produce (obviously, duh)...  BUT, NE like either pezz or prolate (idk who actually?) stated, The Patriots absolutely need to play better situational ball, and thus complimentary to what's happening at the time within the game, To benefit BOTH The Offensive & Defensive side of this team during gametime instances. 
         NO- Multiple 3 and outs, over and over and over again by The Offense in the 2nd half when they're up by 9 points+ (2 possessions) <Can-NOT finish off the other team & beat them into final submission when you're doing 3 consecutive 3 and out series of 1st down run, pass, pass, then Punt- eating 30 seconds-under 2 minutes off the clock />. 
         Likewise, NE's Defense Can-NOT begin the game in the 1st half by allowing for the oppossing Offense to run up and down up and down the field, over & over & over again <even with very moderate to light scoring results afforded the other side- Doesn't help, you're worn out early on D, and the Offense has less possession opportunities, and the oppossing team believes they can have their way with you even IF they haven't as much scoring success against you in the red-zone />.  The results of BOTH of these larger designs, are not simply successes of player performance on-field, But are greatly contingent on Coaching better situational ball, better game management, and better in-game adaptations, etc..

    Kansas (along with most), are pretty d#mn right though-  It's ALL there: Ya got the Generals, ya got the player firepower...  Very MUCH to be excited about- Like The NE team itself though, Let's temper some of our extreme demands & entitled expectations (due to our extreme successes long-term), In favor of a bit more lowly, team over self, Determined and fixed Will.

    ~~

    On a fun & positive note, I'm ecstatic in wondering just WhatInTH Belichick's gonna do on The Defensive Side...  Not just the more focus he'll be granted now with the added Leaders in his Coaching Staff-  It's- Well, it's those D#MN Defensive Ends, right?!?  Just WhatInTH is gonna DO with all these guys?!? 

    And by and large, and seeing as that so many of the guys that Belichick's acquired are adaptable and positionally diverse- It's probably a clearer portrait to say that I'm wondering precisely what belichick has in store for those parcels of his Defensive Unit, which Do Not include: Players in the Secondary Nor Players whose skill-set and position is mainly set amongst any version of the standard 4-3 DT, 3-4 NT, and even 3-4 DE positional grouping- i.e. ALL LBs of any shape or caliber, including 4-3 DEs even IF their skill-range might not fully translate to being able to play the 3-4 OLB spot(s).

    Alphabetical-

    Jake Bequette 6'5 274lbs- Not sure IF Bequette's gonna be an NFL ALL-Pro any time soon, but good grief- The sheer "maybe" potential for positional diversity alone w/ him is just absurd- 4-3 DE (EITHER side), 3-4 OLB (EITHER side)...and all the "elephant" role potential of running up to pass-rush inside Guard-Tackle.
    Bobby Carpenter 6'2 249lbs- GOOD idea, which we'll see If Carpenter himself has actual successes, and even IF he's trully needed, BUT- There's been times wherein IF Rob Nink EVER went down with an Injruy...NE would've been scr#wed.
    Markell Carter 6'4 248lbs- VERY highly regarded...obviously gotta be for decent reason.
    Jermaine Cunningham 6'3 260lbs- Important Note on Cunningham's skill-set so far:  Meh....
    Jonathen Fanene 6'4 285lbs- Interesting whenever I watch fanene's highlights, just how often that he not only lines up as a 4-3 DE, But just how regularly and trully successful he is at scooting inside as a fast & powerful pass-rushing 1-gapping 4-3 DT on passing downs.
    Dane Fletcher 6'2 244lbs- Note: Because of Fletcher, I see absolutely ZERO need to afford someone with such limited production and EXTREMELY limited schematic adaptability as Gary Guyton for instance (Is he still here? I'm not sure anyone knows...or cares), a roster spot.  Fletcher can play a better passing down zone Inside LB, a better pass-rushing/pass-covering 4-3 OLB, perhaps versions of 3-4 and Big nickel WOLB, 3-4 WILB (for Mayo breather), etc..
    Justin Francis 6'4 275lbs- UDFA out of an increasingly tougher & tougher Rutger's D unit, and with strength training could offer up a younger version perhaps closer to Fanene's skill-range on the field of play (or...who knows?).
    Dont'a Hightower 6'2 265lbs- Crazy adaptability...You guys should know well by know, that I've been preaching on for a couple years now RE: the potential to be able to exploit a pass-rushing big-sized MLB into not only the standard head-b#nger in the middle run game D, but as a recognizable weapon that the opposing O has to deal with as an interior pass-rushing interior pocket collapsing threat that you now have to account for...  Not even mentioning varied versions of Hightower quickly shifting on a play here & there to SDE, or 3-4 SOLB...let alone the fact of his zone pass-covering abilities at Alabama at his size.
    Chandler Jones 6'5+ 266lbs- You guys whom are dismissing Jones in favor of Hightower, are SERIOUSLY thinkin' tiny short-term results...  1 year.  Who knows, even less (we'll see).  This guy's a Junior, and has neither filled out his frame (AT- ALL), nor developed his skill-sets in even the basest of NFL abilities...  You need the highlight which sold me on this guy in my posts of his skills pre-draft, just ask.  Unlike someone like Shawn Crable, Jones is simply SO much more quick and athletic directionally at his height & weight (so fluid, top half to bottom half), and his bottom half HAS been far better filled in (VERY good thing- esp. injury-wise @ a 6'5+ height).
    Niko Koutouvides 6'2 238lbs- See someone in between Carpenter, Guyton, and esp. Fletcher(+)...
    Aaron Lavarias 6'3 248lbs- Another intriguing weird DE/MLB hybrid like Dane Fletcher.  Good well-regarded Undrafted pick-up out of Idaho.
    Jerod Mayo 6'1 245lbs- I know he's a mainstay and a great leader/lockerroom guy...And always solid, If not ever spectacular.  I'm just not so certain that the contract he got before the conclusion of last year's regular season, should be equal to ONLY that of what was paid Patrick Willis (exact same contract- bookah bucks).  Tell ya though...He simply NEVER seems to miss on any open-field tackle.
    Rob Ninkovich 6'2 255lbs- Amazing how underrated this solidly performing player is...  Shored up our Strongside OLB spot in an ideal "just do your job" way, offering just as good abover-average SOLB skills at being stout against the run AND playing REALLY good heads-up pass-coverage.
    Mike Rivera- 6'2 252lbs- Another "wait and see" his positional ideal guy; Undrafted Kansas LB'er on IR last year.
    Trevor Scott 6'5 255lbs- VERY much like a Bequette type of skill-set- Wide range to offer skills all over...True & total master of no place in particular.  Ideal at either 4-3 DE spot though...we'll see IF he can start to get back on the upswing in his playing abilities.
    Alex Silvestro 6'3 267lbs- Belichick goin' heavy on these 4-3 DEs outta blue-collar hard-working Rutgers D units.  UDFA pick-up last year.
    Brandon Spikes 6'2 250lbs- Alright Spikes' haters...  Let IT Be- The guy made a s#x vid and has a bigger d#k than you...Don't actually Hate him, and deny his on-field performance because of it, sheez.  This postseason alone- 26 Total tackles, 1 Sack, 1 Int (19 yard return), 2 PDs, 1 FF, 1 FR...3 Games=Jesus, what WILL actually make you give him 1 ounce of credit.  Currently, ZERO Patriot Player offers the amount of play-direction total disruption, As BRANDON SPIKES.  Yes, He ran a slow 40 time 3 years ago in shorts on a straight-line track field...  No, He actually CAN cover...he!!, the guy can cover the pass better than Mayo, so give'm a break and put your pretentions to rest.
    Jeff Tarpinian 6'3 238lbs- UDFA out of Iowa last year; Made the field but neck/head injury- 1 more "wait and see" in yet another hybrid role of some sorta MLB in a longer leaner frame, open to various translations in Nickel LB/smaller passing-down LB schemes.
    Tracy White 6'0 230lbs- WILB and crazy ST'er...  League "survivor" for some time now.  
    />Spencer Larsen 6'2 243lbs- I don't even KNOW WhereInTH to actually place Larsen???  FB, MLB'er, ST'er...look, that's just nice- Thus, I ain't gonna neg him to solely the Offensive Side of the ball due to this fact alone (where in all probability he'll solely be on regardless). 

    ~~~

    That's 19 DEs/LBs (20 w/ Larsen)...  Das' a TON, lol right?!? 

    I've been toying around randomly with novel schematic schemes... 

    1 could be some sorta "swarming" passing-down version of 1(!) just 1 standard down-lineman type (i.e. Vince Wilfork at NT).

    Almost like a weird 3-4 w/ VW in the middle, and some kinda bigger stand-up DE mix of Chandler Jones on the weakside & Jonathen Fanene on the other (bigger weight-wise DE in order to make up for that 3-4 DE/DT 300-320lb size but exceptional fluidity of a DE).  Then your 3 passing down CBs playing tight press man at the LOS (we now have VERY good run defending tough CBs).  2 Safeties- I might offer up 1 as an actual deep FS Cover 1 centerfield deep baller type, and the other as a larger "Rover".  Check this though: 3 MLBs- Mayo flanked by Hightower and Spikes...  No pass D abilities, right?  NO way...sorry.  Hightower, Spikes=BOTH (despite "track 40 delusionals") have shown and DO play very well zone-coverage...ON-FIELD passing down MLBs (not 2 down) with Spikes at Fla and Hightower at Ala.  Meanwhile, some version of a stand-up hybrid DE/3-4 DT/DE in Chandler Jones/Trevor Scott on the weakside of VW, and Fanene/Bequette on the strongside, CAN- Pass-rush...or drop back.  Or delay either way...  MLB prescence-pocket collapse up the middle, zone-blitz utilizing ANY combo of MLBs heading to 1 side...Or massive flooding of the passing lanes after appearing to crowd up somewhere at the snap. 

    ...just a novel thought.

    ~

    A second might offer up a similiar 4-3 version w/ Gerrad Warren/Ron Brace (lol)Marcus Harrison w/ Wilfork in the middle (See, I'm feelin' 2 massive NT types- Thick, stout...but just tall enough and quick enough- i.e. 6'3 330lb pluggers).

    Flanking them...BUT (impt)- beginning just a foot or two further back off the line (whether they want to croach forward or not, they can), Here you'd do your quicker, speedier long 4-3 DEs (people in The Jones/Scott range <6'5 255-265lb range), and no lower than M Carter weight-wise <6'4 248lbs />  and consecutively, no higher than a Jake Bequette weight-range <6'5 274lbs>.  Again...just off the line at 4-3 DE.  2 CBs <standard down, no spread w/ 3 wideouts on the field>.  In the back (and just barely- barely towards the actual inside shoulder) of these wider spaced 4-3 DEs, you'd throw Spikes and Hightower...  Mayo's mannin' the middle, but Mayo's actually set-up even further back (few steps) of his LB counterparts on either side (Hightower/Spikes).  Mayo might offer up some "roving" potential (Left half/Right half safety tandem w/ mayo even offering up that strange Cover 1 deeper-middle zone MLB responsibility...

    ~~~

    Idk, just some fun ideas to see where Belichick might go in a crazy direction w/ ALL these positional types of guys.   

     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : don't know about it being a novel thought but it certainly is a novel...
    Posted by JintsFan


    I believe I got stuck in some sorta time-space wormhole vacuum of time right there...  Had dinner when it was still light out, wrote the post...wham- 12:30 in the morning.  I could've created a new religion in that timespan...very least, I could've got some real vacuuming done... 
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    I see a serious attempt by BB to address the shortcomings of a Patriots D that really did rather well down the stretch last season.  Win games? We'll see.  Improved overall?  Absolutely.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    I think the O is so loaded that it won't matter.  That said I do think they will be much better making for some very lopsided wins.
    Posted by tcal2-


    I hear ya.  This is exactly what we thought in 2007. And we did. Here's the kicker though......if we wanna bring home another Lombardi....the defense has to be able step up in big games and make some plays. I'm thinking the giants games in both 2007 and 2011..
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    Some people say we had a historically bad defense last year and it's just not true. A historically bad defense would not have had a part in winning 15 games and in making it to the super bowl. This is the year the D will win the super bowl!
    Posted by digger0862


    digger, this is what i'm hoping for Laughing
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    I see the usual suspects lined up again to blame the D for Brady's mistakes and poor play.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    I see the usual suspects lined up again to blame the D for Brady's mistakes and poor play.
    Posted by Evil2012


    No ones excusing TB for his INT and just handing the jints 2pts in the first minute of the game.
    But the D just handed the jints 7 pts in the last minute of the game.
    Which is worse?  Pushing a guy in the endzone so they'd score to get the ball back or a safety?
    You also cannot blame the O for a 8 possession game or being on the sidelines for the equivalent of a half time in real time, after each possession.
    The D had the ball for nearly 2/3rds the game for cripes sake.  Hard to ignore!
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : I believe I got stuck in some sorta time-space wormhole vacuum of time right there...  Had dinner when it was still light out, wrote the post...wham- 12:30 in the morning.  I could've created a new religion in that timespan...very least, I could've got some real vacuuming done... 
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium
    0

    quick question, we had an OC in Obie last year. So, theoretically, shouldn't 2011 draft been the year to stock up on defensive players so we could focus on D? Just a thought....
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    I see the usual suspects lined up again to blame the D for Brady's mistakes and poor play.
    Posted by Evil2012


    no, i would say all 3 phases of the game and coaching had plenty to do with the SB loss x2 to the giants
     
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