Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    I see the usual suspects lined up again to blame the D for Brady's mistakes and poor play.
    Posted by Evil2012



    I see the usual weenies lined up to bash the greatest player in Patriots' history so they can try to prop up a D that was an embarassment.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

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    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : No ones excusing TB for his INT and just handing the jints 2pts in the first minute of the game. But the D just handed the jints 7 pts in the last minute of the game. Which is worse?  Pushing a guy in the endzone so they'd score to get the ball back or a safety? You also cannot blame the O for a 8 possession game or being on the sidelines for the equivalent of a half time in real time, after each possession. The D had the ball for nearly 2/3rds the game for cripes sake.  Hard to ignore!
    Posted by pezz4pats


    I am going to emphatically say the safety was NOT Brady's fault. There were 4 seconds from the snap to the ball's release with 3 receivers on 7 defenders and 7 pass protectors an 4 rushers. Brady was the last person to blame on that play.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : no, i would say all 3 phases of the game and coaching had plenty to do with the SB loss x2 to the giants
    Posted by anonymis



    The O was virtually missing its greatest weapon. No offense will be as effective with that kind of firepower missing and only one game to try to figure out something to replace it with.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    LOL. They kept us in every game last year. The O lost 3 games, plus the SB.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

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    LOL. They kept us in every game last year. The O lost 3 games, plus the SB.
    Posted by kansaspatriot


    Nonsense. This is the epitome of why you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    Three of our 4 losses last year were directly due to the defense failing to get the stop at the endgame. They tried like hell to blow the Ravens' game as well, but the chip shot missed.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : Nonsense. This is the epitome of why you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Three of our 4 losses last year were directly due to the defense failing to get the stop at the endgame. They tried like hell to blow the Ravens' game as well, but the chip shot missed.
    Posted by BabeParilli



    Brady himself said he sucked in that game to all the fans at Gillette.  Wilfork played the game of his life.  The Pats defense definitely won the Ravens game.  Brady's play absolutely did not.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    I would not expect to see the level of D we will have come playoff time until the last 4 games of the regular season. And my expectations are for a very solid D. It is possible it will have some abilty for spectacular play but at least it should be very solid by late season.

     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

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    Brady himself said he sucked in that game to all the fans at Gillette.  Wilfork played the game of his life.  The Pats defense definitely won the Ravens game.  Brady's play absolutely did not.
    Posted by DoNotSleepOnThePats

    Don't you know that the first 55 minutes of an NFL game don't matter? It's only the last 5 minutes that count. :o)
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : 0 quick question, we had an OC in Obie last year. So, theoretically, shouldn't 2011 draft been the year to stock up on defensive players so we could focus on D? Just a thought....
    Posted by anonymis


    Not sure anonymis...  Every Draft's different however with the depth of quality and high-end talent at every position.  Also, Every single year a Team's basic needs and positional shortcomings change.  In 2011, Belichick sensed that he could nab some pretty nice 4-3 guys in Free Agency, undervalued due to the sheer number of team's moving ever moreso towards a base 3-4 Defense.  In The draft (a p#ss-poor overall haul imo, based on 6 picks in 3 Rounds, then 3 more picks on top of that)- <continuing> Belichick saw the very real need for getting some Runningbacks and nabbing some O-Linemen (not just 1 OT)- Seems like, this way they could develop under our O-Line Coach and both RB and OL could get a better grasp of NE's insanely complicated playbook (which is complicated not solely for the timing wideout patterns, but the exactness of zone-blocking angles and schemes, RBs in pass protection + short pass-patterns, etc).

    One might say this way could work out better...  Not simply in terms of our OL being a group of geezers (2 years ago, Vollmer was the only starter under 30 y.o.), OR the lack of young legs and talent at the RB spot...But solely in terms of Belichick's Defensive Philosophy beginning to shift a bit more than ever previously in The Front 7- Why confuse a rook with your attempts at varying large alterations here & there and all over & back again, in your Defensive Schemes, ya know?  Especially, with a larger wealth of available vet DEs in Free Agency in 2011?

    Never thought about it this way, til ya broached the subject here, But it sorta makes pretty good sense directionally w/ FA vs. Draft, right?
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : No ones excusing TB for his INT and just handing the jints 2pts in the first minute of the game. But the D just handed the jints 7 pts in the last minute of the game. Which is worse?  Pushing a guy in the endzone so they'd score to get the ball back or a safety? You also cannot blame the O for a 8 possession game or being on the sidelines for the equivalent of a half time in real time, after each possession. The D had the ball for nearly 2/3rds the game for cripes sake.  Hard to ignore!
    Posted by pezz4pats


    Pezz, ya can't play it 90% Both ways in 1 instance and then 0% Both ways in the other instance...  Yours, texpat's, and parilli's awful rhetoric might convince a few st#p#d people in the realm of politics...just not within plainer events which transpire before everyone's eyes on the football field.  

    You can-NOT place total blame on NE's Defense, when NE's Offense goes multiple series of 3 and outs, taking a miniscule 1 minute and change off the gameclock...Nor a 7 an out, wherein they're taking 2 minutes off the gameclock.  It goes BOTH ways (Will We ever convince you people of this...? Nah, probably not).  NE's D had held their playoff opponent's to so little (point-wise) throughout & during the course of the first 1/2-3/4's of gametimes during these postseason matches (including the SB)...Meanwhile, NE's Offense is NOT playing catch-up from behind=2nd Quarter and especially onwards in the 2nd half, there is ZERO excuse for THIS bad of time of possession control by NE's Offense (yea, this can further wear your D out when your O is on the field for 30 seconds before ya gotta go back out there; And yea- Much of the same thing reciprocally earlier on, when your O has less series in half #1 b/c your D's giving up extended drives up and down the field)...  Works BOTH ways- Try to come to terms with this someday, o.k.?
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

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    I think that the way BB runs his D, they get maligned by the fans and the press.  In terms of points allowed when it counts, versus defensive points manufactured when it counts, the Patriots have stacked up as a top ten NFL defense in the past few years.  In terms of points allowed when it doesn't count that much (late in the fourth quarter when ahead by three scores, for example) they aren't as good.  That's because they're playing prevent.  There's a joke that the prevent defense and prevent offense prevents you from winning, but take a look at the win-loss record. In terms of yards allowed when points aren't immediately on the line, the D gives them up in droves.  Again, the defense's goals are somewhat different from the football raw statistics prognosticators.  A victory is forward.  A loss is backward.  All yardage is not created equal. As for this year, BB reached up for two guys who will start immediately and have an impact.  Both guys can pass-rush.  Third rounder Bequette will be in the pass rush mix on passing downs.  Does anyone see a trend here?  BB has had it with anyone named Manning throwing downfield at will.  Or at Sam and Mike.  Apparently pounding the quarterback with a bunch of 270 pound guys who can seriously accelerate before impact (that's the key!) has an effect on throwing.  Batting passes up in the air has its own effect on the quarterback.
    Posted by Paul_K


    This is true, BUT, there is no question BB has fielded better defenses that can make big plays. Last year was the first year in a while that we saw flashes of what past BB defenses used to be. Excluding last year the previous 3 years or so the defenses though they hadn't given up a lot of points didn't have the ability to control the game. Last year the defense was good enough to control a game when everyone was healthy and on the field. They are really close to having the kind of D that can win a game and make things happen. Let's face it, nobody has really feared the Pats D in quite some time. Last year I think the D did put some fear into opposing teams especially when Carter was in the game. 
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : This is true, BUT, there is no question BB has fielded better defenses that can make big plays. Last year was the first year in a while that we saw flashes of what past BB defenses used to be. Excluding last year the previous 3 years or so the defenses though they hadn't given up a lot of points didn't have the ability to control the game. Last year the defense was good enough to control a game when everyone was healthy and on the field. They are really close to having the kind of D that can win a game and make things happen. Let's face it, nobody has really feared the Pats D in quite some time. Last year I think the D did put some fear into opposing teams especially when Carter was in the game. 
    Posted by Macrawn


    Think your dead-on Macrawn...  I remember and I'm 99% sure that last year (2 years ago, I guess 2010-2011 Season), NE's Defense was #1 in Total Turnovers...  But even with THIS pure fact on exceptional TO #'s, it just didn't feel that way 1 single bit. 

    In 10-11, there was good Secondary INT numbers, and the like, but still ZERO pass-rush, and nothing palpable in the realm of jarring hits and stellar Defensive play, resulting in Offensive Players losing the ball, coughing it up, having 1 degree of secondary thoughts to even be in possession of it, etc.. 

    Can-NOT say the same thing when you think back to, or just watch old clips from NE's 2001 Defensive Team...  That D just MADE you wanna give it up- MADE you make mistakes based on Both their skilled & moreso-Absolutely fearsome & ferocious play. 

    For the 1st time in a REAL long time, NE's got some Defenders whose play looks to make you pay a price when you're in possession of the rock (or when it's headed your way).  Chung & McCourty, and even Dowling and Dennard's College tapes, show them to be Secondary Guys FAR more along the Ty Law/Rodney Harrison playing vein of toughness, than that Asante Samuel/Ellis Hobbes brand of either playing finesse or just playing back on your heels as to not get beat so badly.  Same w/ front 7- Hightower and Jones just TRY to rip people to shreds- And it's 100% Purely & Undoubtedly Evident when watching their Highlights-  Now, guys whom are hard-charging disruptors whom enjoy crushing people like Spikes and Wilfork, Have THAT much more of a freer range in their own maniac full-bore love to bl0w the O up, and they have THAT much more support TEAM-WIDE for this to enhance the entire ferocious feel & play of those around them, and thus as a NE Defensive Unit as a whole <i.e. guys whose play you see HAS been disruptive when those surrounding them ARE disruptive and the same guys who aren't big disruptive playmakers AT ALL without a surrounding cast of hard-chargers- Mayo, Fanene, and I've seen Will Allen on Miami crush people on decent Miami Defense's that've gelled late in a given season- Gerrard Warren, Myron Pryor- 2 more who wane towards simple solid stout D, but whom I've also seen the ability to wax momentarilly into more of fearsome wrecking ball, based just like those others-On Their Surrounding Cast>.    
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : Brady himself said he sucked in that game to all the fans at Gillette.  Wilfork played the game of his life.  The Pats defense definitely won the Ravens game.  Brady's play absolutely did not.
    Posted by DoNotSleepOnThePats



    No. Billy Cundiff definitely won the Ravens' game for the Pats.

    Brady did not play well. That's a given. But then the average fanboy doesn't consider the Ravens led the entire NFL with a 68 DPR. The Texans QB managed a 28 against them in the previous playoff game.

    Yet saying the D won that game is absurd. They let the 80 PR Flacco throw up a 95 and let him march from his own 21 to our 14 on that last drive. They tried like hell to give them the tie as they virtually failed in the endgame yet again as they did in 3 of the four losses we suffered last season.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : Pezz , ya can't play it 90% Both ways in 1 instance and then 0% Both ways in the other instance...  Yours, texpat's, and parilli's awful rhetoric might convince a few st#p#d people in the realm of politics...just not within plainer events which transpire before everyone's eyes on the football field.   You can-NOT place total blame on NE's Defense, when NE's Offense goes multiple series of 3 and outs, taking a miniscule 1 minute and change off the gameclock...Nor a 7 an out, wherein they're taking 2 minutes off the gameclock.  It goes BOTH ways (Will We ever convince you people of this...? Nah, probably not).  NE's D had held their playoff opponent's to so little (point-wise) throughout & during the course of the first 1/2-3/4's of gametimes during these postseason matches (including the SB)...Meanwhile, NE's Offense is NOT playing catch-up from behind=2nd Quarter and especially onwards in the 2nd half, there is ZERO excuse for THIS bad of time of possession control by NE's Offense (yea, this can further wear your D out when your O is on the field for 30 seconds before ya gotta go back out there; And yea- Much of the same thing reciprocally earlier on, when your O has less series in half #1 b/c your D's giving up extended drives up and down the field)...  Works BOTH ways- Try to come to terms with this someday, o.k.?
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium


    I have not seen anybody place total blame on the defense. There are only a few losses in the entire history of the team that you could say such a thing applies. But the lion's share of the blame goes to the D in every loss we had last season. They just aren't very good. Basically if the O doesn't put up their typical A or B game and puts out a C or D game we are apt to lose as the D puts out its typical C, D or F game.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : Pezz , ya can't play it 90% Both ways in 1 instance and then 0% Both ways in the other instance...  Yours, texpat's, and parilli's awful rhetoric might convince a few st#p#d people in the realm of politics...just not within plainer events which transpire before everyone's eyes on the football field.   You can-NOT place total blame on NE's Defense, when NE's Offense goes multiple series of 3 and outs, taking a miniscule 1 minute and change off the gameclock...Nor a 7 an out, wherein they're taking 2 minutes off the gameclock.  It goes BOTH ways (Will We ever convince you people of this...? Nah, probably not).  NE's D had held their playoff opponent's to so little (point-wise) throughout & during the course of the first 1/2-3/4's of gametimes during these postseason matches (including the SB)...Meanwhile, NE's Offense is NOT playing catch-up from behind=2nd Quarter and especially onwards in the 2nd half, there is ZERO excuse for THIS bad of time of possession control by NE's Offense (yea, this can further wear your D out when your O is on the field for 30 seconds before ya gotta go back out there; And yea- Much of the same thing reciprocally earlier on, when your O has less series in half #1 b/c your D's giving up extended drives up and down the field)...  Works BOTH ways- Try to come to terms with this someday, o.k.?
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium


    Sorry Laz but my awful rhetoric is backed up by facts.
    The SB D did not even live up to it's 31st ranked regular season D.
    The only measurable they exceeded was points given.  They failed in all the rest.
    The scores were low for both teams due to it being an extremely low possession game.
    It was a low possession game due to their inability to get off the field.
    The O wasn't eating up the clock.  Their TOP was average for an 8 possession game.  Not all their drives were below average only 3 were.
    In converse, every single one of the D's possessions were much above average in TOP.
    The O probably would have scored again if not for that pick which defiantly sucks.  The drops were also horrendous. No doubt!
     But they could have also won with one measly 3 and out or one measly turn over.  Both of which they did in the regular season and even while being ranked 31st.  So, ya, I'm putting more blame on the D
    Hopefully they'll never have to practically push a guy in the end zone just to get the ball back ever again.  How many times has that happened in a SB?  Ever???
      That's gotta be one for the records.  Too bad it's not a good one unlike the 2 that TB and the offense set. 
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

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    Hopefully they'll never have to practically push a guy in the end zone just to get the ball back ever again.  How many times has that happened in a SB?  Ever???   That's gotta be one for the records.  Too bad it's not a good one unlike the 2 that TB and the offense set. 
    Posted by pezz4pats


    THAT was embarrassing.
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

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    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : I am going to emphatically say the safety was NOT Brady's fault. There were 4 seconds from the snap to the ball's release with 3 receivers on 7 defenders and 7 pass protectors an 4 rushers. Brady was the last person to blame on that play.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    should they have been throwing in that situation? Bad call by Obie..
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : I see the usual weenies lined up to bash the greatest player in Patriots' history so they can try to prop up a D that was an embarassment.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Is it time for your usual idiotic excuses again....

    Offenses don't run the clock down by getting first downs at the end of the game.

    Safeties don't matter.

    Bad throws don't matter.

    INTs don't matter.

     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    Shocking! Rusty's alter ego makes an appearance and has the same view as Rusty on everything. 
    Posted by Bustchise


    Shocking--Same stupid accusation from the Brady never screws up crowd
     
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    Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?

    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats?:
    In Response to Re: Is This The Year The D Will Start Winning Some Games For The Pats? : It seems that you are the only ones that think a QB will never screw up.  Thing is, when you throw the ball often and score a lot of points, there will be more errors.  When you have a QB that has one of the lowest pick ratios and highest TD ratios, you ride it all the way and prey your D does not give up a TD with the game on the line.
    Posted by Bustchise


    Here we go again with the stupid stats defense. The simple fact is that he did miss throws, did throw ints and did get a safety. I suppose when this stuff happens he can just remind the officials of his stats and they'll call a do over on the play.

    Did we score a lot of points in the SB? Maybe you were watching a different game than me.

    Go joint Babe in Brady butt licking land. The fact is he did screw up several times costing the team points and none of you have the nuts to admit it.
     
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