Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

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    I've been following the Welker saga like everyone else as he's one of my favorite players along with Kevin (We really gonna miss you) Faulk. It's seem to be a consensus of opinion that he came back very early and that his recovery was remarkable.  It's pretty much conventional wisdom that full recovery from this injury takes over a year and in some cases 18 to 24 months to get back to normal strength and to argue this is simply to split hairs for the sake of arguing.  There's a preponderance of evidence to suggest that Wes is no where near 100% as expressed in medical opinion by professionals and by players who have gone through the same injury, recovery, and rehab.  You don't need to be a medical expert to have an informed opinion.  You need only to be able to read, think, analyze, and interpret information.

    Listening to Rodney Harrison was what put me on this topic.  He said that Welker was very brave to be playing right now and that he can't be near 100% till way late in the season or until next season.  Harrision said that Welker is risking his career playing with that knee in the condition it is in at the moment.  I like the way Rodney expresses himself, I admire his candor, his intellingence, and his football knowledge.  And what he said without saying it, but by implication, is that Welker may be foolish to risk it all the way he is doing.  Rodney suffered the same injury and has first hand football knowledge of the issue.

    His opinion, my opinion . . this is a discussion board, and on discussion boards opinions get tossed out and discussed. No one should be uncomfortable with discussing these issues.  It's the nature of a discussion board.  Dont' get your panties all in a bunch, Girls.

    I got a big kick out of some responses, like this guy, whose posts always consist of merely one pity one-liner, never addressing any aspect of any issue:   

    "obviously is not 100% recovered"?  And you know this how exactly"
     "All these amateur trainers offering medical opinions"

    And some great comments too, like this:

    "I have no knowledge of the man above anyone elses, I just think of him as loving this opportunity so much, that it doesn't matter to him if he did it for millions of dollars or dozens. So giving his all - at all times - is just his nature."

    Am I blowing blue smoke?


    Of course we always have the guy who thinks sarcasm is cool and doesn't realize that it is weak:

    I'm sorry, i wasnt aware that welker was RISKING his career. I'm glad somebody on this board actually talks to the players."


    And real good insights like this one:

    "If Welker's knee was fully recovered he wouldn't be wearing a brace.  It would be interesting to see an analysis of players who took a year or two away from football. In theory their physical ability wouldn't degrade, and they'd have the advantage of maturity. Roger Staubach might be the prime example of that.

    On the other hand, maybe maturity isn't a great asset for a small receiver, because with maturity might come the realization that the odds aren't very good out there among the linebackers and safeties. Maybe he'd be better off to get out of the game with a few million dollars in the bank and functional knees and a brain that hasn't been scrambled."

    As for my opinion that the Pats management is not committed to winning this season, it's not at all about doom and gloom.  I will root them on to win every game and bring it all back home, but based on my observation of the way the Krafts and Belichick operate, the pending labor strife, the way they treat players, the way they let talent go and don't sign talent they have under contract, all that indicates to me a season in limbo,where the Krafts will make hundreds of millions of dollars while giving the appearance of trying, and you and me and Brady and Moss and Welker will be left holding the bag rooting for and playing for a team without the depth of talent, especially on defense, needed to compete with the elite teams.  I'm just of the opinion that we won't be going to the Super Bowl this season and that is what I am saying when I say they are not committed to winning it all.  We could and should be in a position to win it all. 

    Is anyone on this board predicting another Super Bowl appearance this season?  I'd like to hear about it you are.  But my opinion is certainly no better than anyone else's, just an opinion,and if you have a different opinion feel free to write a thread or a post of your own detailing your stance.


    This is after all a discussion board.






     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?:
    [QUOTE]- I've been following the Welker saga like everyone else as he's one of my favorite players along with Kevin (We really gonna miss you) Faulk. It's seem to be a consensus of opinion that he came back very early and that his recovery was remarkable.  It's pretty much conventional wisdom that full recovery from this injury takes over a year and in some cases 18 to 24 months to get back to normal strength and to argue this is simply to split hairs for the sake of arguing.  There's a preponderance of evidence to suggest that Wes is no where near 100% as expressed in medical opinion by professionals and by players who have gone through the same injury, recovery, and rehab.  You don't need to be a medical expert to have an informed opinion.  You need only to be able to read, think, analyze, and interpret information. Listening to Rodney Harrison was what put me on this topic.  He said that Welker was very brave to be playing right now and that he can't be near 100% till way late in the season or until next season.  Harrision said that Welker is risking his career playing with that knee in the condition it is in at the moment.  I like the way Rodney expresses himself, I admire his candor, his intellingence, and his football knowledge.  And what he said without saying it, but by implication, is that Welker may be foolish to risk it all the way he is doing.  Rodney suffered the same injury and has first hand football knowledge of the issue. His opinion, my opinion . . this is a discussion board, and on discussion boards opinions get tossed out and discussed. No one should be uncomfortable with discussing these issues.  It's the nature of a discussion board.  Dont' get your panties all in a bunch, Girls. I got a big kick out of some responses, like this guy, whose posts always consist of merely one pity one-liner, never addressing any aspect of any issue:    "obviously is not 100% recovered"?  And you know this how exactly"   "All these amateur trainers offering medical opinions" And some great comments to like this: "I have no knowledge of the man above anyone elses, I just think of him as loving this opportunity so much, that it doesn't matter to him if he did it for millions of dollars or dozens. So giving his all - at all times - is just his nature." Am I blowing blue smoke? Of course we always have the guy who thinks sarcasm is cool and doesn't realize that it is weak: I'm sorry, i wasnt aware that welker was RISKING his career. I'm glad somebody on this board actually talks to the players." And real good insights like this one: "If Welker's knee was fully recovered he wouldn't be wearing a brace.  It would be interesting to see an analysis of players who took a year or two away from football. In theory their physical ability wouldn't degrade, and they'd have the advantage of maturity.  Roger Staubach might be the prime example of that. On the other hand, maybe maturity isn't a great asset for a small receiver, because with maturity might come the realization that the odds aren't very good out there among the linebackers and safeties. Maybe he'd be better off to get out of the game with a few million dollars in the bank and functional knees and a brain that hasn't been scrambled." As for my opinion that the Pats management is not committed to winning this season, it's not at all about doom and gloom.  I will root them on to win every game and bring it all back home, but based on my observation of the way the Krafts and Belichick operate, the pending labor strife, the way they treat players, the way they let talent go and don't sign talent they have under contract, all that indicates to me a season in limbo,where the Krafts will make hundreds of millions of dollars while giving the appearance of trying, and you and me and Brady and Moss and Welker will be left holding the bag rooting for and playing for a team without the depth of talent, especially on defense, needed to compete with the elite teams.  I'm just of the opinion that we won't be going to the Super Bowl this season and that is what I am saying when I say they are not committed to winning it all.  We could and should be in a position to win it all.  Is anyone on this board predicting another Super Bowl appearance this season?  I'd like to hear about it you are.  But my opinion is certainly no better than anyone else's, just an opinion,and if you have a different opinion feel free to write a thread or a post of your own detailing your stance. This is after all a discussion board.
    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]
    Here is my opinion, as worthless as it is. MY BIG question over the last 5 years with the Patriots is, Who are their physical trainers and what kind of programs are they using.
    Now I know physical injuries are common in the NFL but the Patriots are above the normal level. I use to read how Jerry Rice from the 49's never listened to the trainers, he flet there was way too much weight lifting and strain with the way they were being told to train, so he used some techniques used by cross country trainers and a few others and low and behold, he was one of the best conditioned NFL players of all time. When he was asked about how he avoided injuries he said( Its how I prepair and train in the off season and pre season)
    Now Im sure I will get  many who disagree, but how do you disagree with what works?
    Also being an old gym rat, there are 4 of my friends, we ar eall now in late 40's that we grew up lifting heavy from late teens to mid twenties. Everyone of us ahve some form of injuries as a result of that time and what we did. I can only imagine what the Pro's are feeling like.
     We went to a guest speaker convertion about 7 years ago in Las Vegas and one of the speakers was Dick Butkus. I asked him a bunch of questions on his health and most of what he said was the weight lifing from back in the day and constant pounding in the gym (not just on the field) has left him almost crippled. He said he didnt mind the on field playing because it was fun and you got to play and hit which he loved, but he said he hated the weight room and felt it was overkill. So you can imagine with the size of the guys now and the weights being used and pressure to preform what its doing to the bodies.
    You dont have to be huge to be strong, and me personally, I think Jerry Rice was on to something and he proved that. I just hate seeing how many injuries the Patriots ALWAYS seem to have and get.
     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    you know whose opinion i dont need to hear in regards to someone elses injury? a retired player that is now a talking head for SNF. He is going to say things which most times are over the top just to make himself seem more important.

    I'll wait for welkers doctor to say "he shouldnt be playing" before i listen to your posts.
     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    He was cleared to play and he wants to. He hasn't done anything to show he isn't healed or incapable of playing. End of story.
     
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    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?:
    [QUOTE]you know whose opinion i dont need to hear in regards to someone elses injury? a retired player that is now a talking head for SNF. He is going to say things which most times are over the top just to make himself seem more important. I'll wait for welkers doctor to say "he shouldnt be playing" before i listen to your posts.
    Posted by ChasaB[/QUOTE]

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    Thanks for sharing, Buff, can you tell the group how you feel now that you have gotten that off your chest?

    And BTW, tell the Group where did you read me write that Welker shouldn't be playing.  It would be real cute of you if you could dig up a quote where I said he should not be playing.  Because it does not exist.

    I guess there is something about the word "discussion" that you don't understand.

    But we'll wait for you to catch up to the Group and post your own well thought out and insightful thread on this discussion board.

    In the meantime, thanks for sharing.
     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish? : Here is my opinion, as worthless as it is. MY BIG question over the last 5 years with the Patriots is, Who are their physical trainers and what kind of programs are they using. Now I know physical injuries are common in the NFL but the Patriots are above the normal level. I use to read how Jerry Rice from the 49's never listened to the trainers, he flet there was way too much weight lifting and strain with the way they were being told to train, so he used some techniques used by cross country trainers and a few others and low and behold, he was one of the best conditioned NFL players of all time. When he was asked about how he avoided injuries he said( Its how I prepair and train in the off season and pre season) Now Im sure I will get  many who disagree, but how do you disagree with what works? Also being an old gym rat, there are 4 of my friends, we ar eall now in late 40's that we grew up lifting heavy from late teens to mid twenties. Everyone of us ahve some form of injuries as a result of that time and what we did. I can only imagine what the Pro's are feeling like.  We went to a guest speaker convertion about 7 years ago in Las Vegas and one of the speakers was Dick Butkus. I asked him a bunch of questions on his health and most of what he said was the weight lifing from back in the day and constant pounding in the gym (not just on the field) has left him almost crippled. He said he didnt mind the on field playing because it was fun and you got to play and hit which he loved, but he said he hated the weight room and felt it was overkill. So you can imagine with the size of the guys now and the weights being used and pressure to preform what its doing to the bodies. You dont have to be huge to be strong, and me personally, I think Jerry Rice was on to something and he proved that. I just hate seeing how many injuries the Patriots ALWAYS seem to have and get.
    Posted by JerrySpringer[/QUOTE]

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    I gots ta give ya props, Jerry Springer, that was a good read above.  I do believe Rice and yourself are onto something.  And to add my two cents worth, it's the heavy weights used to bulk up that cause the damage.  Lifting moderate weights with high repetition does not do the damage that lifting heavy weights for a few reps does.  Do you agree with that assumption?

    But here you said a mouthful:

    "You dont have to be huge to be strong, and me personally, I think Jerry Rice was on to something and he proved that. I just hate seeing how many injuries the Patriots ALWAYS seem to have and get."

    And I gots to agree wit ya.
     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?:
    [QUOTE]"obviously is not 100% recovered"?  And you know this how exactly?
    Posted by 123meg[/QUOTE]
    I asked my orthopedic surgeon about Welker's concurrent ACL & MCL tears. According to him, he's extremely surprised as to the swift recovery time to even be 80%. He didn't even think it was possible. I asked him about any plausible healing accelerator which he winced at. Read his mind. Hint: its test is undetermined. 
     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    RajonRondowski, welcome to the Patriots forum. You make some good points on Welker as he may be risking his career but he's doing it of his own volition. He agressively rehabbed his knee after the surgery so he could be ready for the start of the season. He admitted he is not 100% and is wearing a protective knee brace but he is still very good. We can only hope he doesn't injure himself again this season.

    I see you are still down on my Patriots having a winning season. Well, they didn't impress last week and have fallen a bit to the injury bug but tell me what teams scare you? Right now I don't see any "elite" teams out there. In my opinion, we have just as good a chance as any other team.
     
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    [QUOTE]He is at about 90% healed right now the other 10 percent is just mental. He would not be able to run against corners and LBs if his knee were in any type of way good. I have and am dealing with my own knee issue right now and I got my surgery early January and I am beginning to do very light things like working out or playing a pick up game of basketball. Wes Welker is an NFL player who spends day in and day out worrying about football. Hes fine
    Posted by Pancakespwn[/QUOTE]
    What was the extent of your injury? 
    Very similar to Welker's?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    I tore my ACL/MCL....

    It blows my mind to even see this guy out there doing what he's doing considering. I'd bet he's not even close to 100%.

    His amazingly quick return is simply remarkable.

    Wes, you are quickly becoming one of my favourite players of all time, and I for one do think you'd still have 100 grabs/yr without Moss in there..
     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?:
    [QUOTE]RajonRondowski, welcome to the Patriots forum. You make some good points on Welker as he may be risking his career but he's doing it of his own volition. He agressively rehabbed his knee after the surgery so he could be ready for the start of the season. He admitted he is not 100% and is wearing a protective knee brace but he is still very good. We can only hope he doesn't injure himself again this season. I see you are still down on my Patriots having a winning season. Well, they didn't impress last week and have fallen a bit to the injury bug but tell me what teams scare you? Right now I don't see any "elite" teams out there. In my opinion, we have just as good a chance as any other team.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

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    Thanks digger.

    Give me time to round into form on this years version of the Pats.  I've had my first two Sundays totally disrupted and only caught part of the games on TV and on radio.  I gotta admit that the Pat's game is the highlight of my week this time of year, and I hope to be settled and able to watch every minute of every game from here on out.

    I expect the Pats to have a winning season and to win 9 or 10 games and probably make the playoffs.  That's my hope for this team, and who knows in the playoffs what can happen that time of year.  It's a one game season each week, and teams break down due to injury or peak too early, and one thing I'm pretty sure of is that the Pats will not peak too early this year.

    Ideally, the defense will gain experience and confidence and stop making mistakes, and the offense will put a lot of points on the board no matter what defense they face.  I'm the eternal optimist once the game begins. 

    But I'm somewhat disenchanted with the Krafts and with Belichick which color my attitude toward the team.  For me, so far, the Pat's seem very shaky, with multiple problems and an attitude that to me is worrisome, something I can hardly put my finger on, but has to do with body language, confidence, and team mentality.  Does that make any sense, being so vague?

    I think the Dolphins are under-rated, as are the Texans, and the Cowboys will yet right their ship in time for the playoffs, though I pic the Texans this Sunday. Green Bay may be a team of destiny, and the Colts are better than last year, which is a scary thought, and New Orleans should be able to ably defend their title.  The Ravens may be as good as thought, we'll have to see.  As for "elite teams" I would say Green Bay (wild card), Colts, & Saints, as at least being more elite than the rest of the pack.

    Any given Sunday, remember: it's the NFL.

    Go Pats.  I'm as die-hard a Pats fan as Fred Smerlas and never, ever pick against the Patriots.  I just couch my analysis in pragmatic reality.  But once the game begins, I'm as irrational and biased as any fan (fanatic) pulling for their guys.

    And I hope that nothing happens to Wes Welker because to me that would be heart-breaking.  I hope that he and the Pat's management manage his playing time very carefully and don't assume that he is the same player he was before the injury and can take the same punishment he used to take on a game by game basis.  Is that too much to hope for?
     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

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    [QUOTE]- ... Is anyone on this board predicting another Super Bowl appearance this season?  I'd like to hear about it you are... 
    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]

    I'm not predicting anything, but this is a good football team with a chance at making a playoff run.  If they get in the tournament, anything can happen.  Would anybody have predicted they'd win the Super Bowl in 2001 when they started 0-2 (losing to Cincy and NYJ if memory serves, coincidentally) and their starting QB was KOd?  It's a long season. 

    There are a lot of pieces to this team that a lot of other teams would like to have.  They need to improve in some areas, no doubt.  But if you think they have no shot and you're basing that on basically one lousy half of football, you're being ignorant. 

    Whether Welker should be playing, I have no opinion on that.  That's between him and his doctors, and obviously they're good with it or he wouldn't be out there.  I find it a bit interesting that Harrison would make that sort of comment considering that he came back rather quickly from a similar injury as I recall.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish? : I'm not predicting anything, but this is a good football team with a chance at making a playoff run.  If they get in the tournament, anything can happen.  Would anybody have predicted they'd win the Super Bowl in 2001 when they started 0-2 (losing to Cincy and NYJ if memory serves, coincidentally) and their starting QB was KOd?  It's a long season.  There are a lot of pieces to this team that a lot of other teams would like to have.  They need to improve in some areas, no doubt.  But if you think they have no shot and you're basing that on basically one lousy half of football, you're being ignorant.  Whether Welker should be playing, I have no opinion on that.  That's between him and his doctors, and obviously they're good with it or he wouldn't be out there.  I find it a bit interesting that Harrison would make that sort of comment considering that he came back rather quickly from a similar injury as I recall.
    Posted by Muzwell[/QUOTE]

    -

    Listen up, Cosmo, I didn't predict doom & gloom either, just disputed any claim that the Krafts are championship driven this season. I expect the Pats to make the play-offs, but there's a huge difference between an play-off team and a super bowl winner.

    Like everyone else in Patriot Nation I hope the Pats get on a roll, capture some of that old magic, and go back to the SB as misunderstood, dis-respected underdogs with a chip on their shoulder.

    I never based anything on one game or a half game, I'm not the panicky type.  I've been following the organization as a whole for a long time now and it is on those observations that I base my opinions.

    We use to win with big defensive contributions, but now if we are to have PO aspirations we must win big as front runners, and means that Brady and the offense have to put up big points fast, in other words, score early and often, to keep our defense off the field and theirs on.

    If our offense begins scoring like the potent offense they appear to be on paper then we have a real good chance of surprising some teams and pulling off some upsets.

    But some say "What you see is what you get.", and BB says, "It is what it is." and I'm asking, What is it? 

    What kind of team do we have this season: a low scoring turnover prone offense with a young, unorganized, inexperienced, mistake prone, defense, or a team with a very potent offense and a hustling, confident, over-achieving, well coached defense?

    Through pre-season and two games, now, I still don't know who this Pat's team is or how far they may be able to go.

    As for Harrison, he wasn't leveling any criticism, just saying how brave Welker putting his career on the line like that: they have vastly different bodies and played vastly different postions. Now one has taken more punishment then Welker has taken these last few seasons, and I think Rodney's point is well taken. 
     
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    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish? : - Listen up, Cosmo, I didn't predict doom & gloom either, just disputed any claim that the Krafts are championship driven this season. ...
    Based on what?  A hunch, a gut feeling?  Or is it something you can point to, like failing to sign all the key free agents in the offseason and the quarterback in his contract year.  Ooops, never mind... 
     
    "What you see is what you get.", and BB says, "It is what it is." and I'm asking, What is it?  What kind of team do we have this season: a low scoring turnover prone offense with a young, unorganized, inexperienced, mistake prone, defense, or a team with a very potent offense and a hustling, confident, over-achieving, well coached defense?
    Wait and see.  That's why they play the games. Too early to tell.  I have more cliches if you want them... Bottom line is you can't possibly draw any conclusions at this point.  None.  Again, they started 0-2 in 2001.  The Giants started 0-2 in 2007 and gave up 80 points in those two games.  They were talking about firing Coughlin.  I'd say that defense turned out OK.
     
    Through pre-season and two games, now, I still don't know who this Pat's team is or how far they may be able to go.
    They can win the Super Bowl, or they can finish 1-15, or anything in between.  There, I answered your question.

    As for Harrison, he wasn't leveling any criticism, just saying how brave Welker putting his career on the line like that: they have vastly different bodies and played vastly different postions. Now one has taken more punishment then Welker has taken these last few seasons, and I think Rodney's point is well taken. 
    So if Harrison isn't criticizing him, then why bring his comments up in the context of your question about Welker?  Why are you questioning Welker's decision to play?  What would make you think Welker is at risk any more than any other player?  

    Your implication seems to be that Welker shouldn't be playing because the Patriots can't possibly be serious about winning a championship because their ownership isn't committed to winning and the team is lousy.  Therefore he is risking his health in a hopeless cause.  If that's what you're saying, I think it's crazy.  If that's not what you're saying, where am I going wrong?   


    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish? :
    Posted by Muzwell[/QUOTE]

    -


    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish? : - Listen up, Cosmo, I didn't predict doom & gloom either, just disputed any claim that the Krafts are championship driven this season. ...
    Based on what?  A hunch, a gut feeling?  Or is it something you can point to, like failing to sign all the key free agents in the offseason and the quarterback in his contract year.  Ooops, never mind... 

    -The failure to sign Logan Mankins says volumes about the Krafts as well as the way they dismantled the defense and left us with a D that is not competitive enough to win it all.  Not to mention the way they have alienated the players:  there is a dis-connect between the players and management that means the players are no longer drinking the kool-aid.
     
    - - - - - - - -

    "What you see is what you get.", and BB says, "It is what it is." and I'm asking, What is it?  What kind of team do we have this season: a low scoring turnover prone offense with a young, unorganized, inexperienced, mistake prone, defense, or a team with a very potent offense and a hustling, confident, over-achieving, well coached defense?
    Wait and see.  That's why they play the games. Too early to tell.  I have more cliches if you want them... Bottom line is you can't possibly draw any conclusions at this point.  None.  Again, they started 0-2 in 2001.  The Giants started 0-2 in 2007 and gave up 80 points in those two games.  They were talking about firing Coughlin.  I'd say that defense turned out OK.


    -It's not about clichés or drawing conclusions:  what I said is that it is difficult to know who this team is right now or how far they can go, and all you say here is, that, basically, you agree.  Isn't that right?  And what happened in the past, to a completely different Pats team, means nothing to todays's team.

    - - - - - -- - -

    Through pre-season and two games, now, I still don't know who this Pat's team is or how far they may be able to go.
    They can win the Super Bowl, or they can finish 1-15, or anything in between.  There, I answered your question.


    - What's this about, anything?

     - - - - - -

    As for Harrison, he wasn't leveling any criticism, just saying how brave Welker putting his career on the line like that: they have vastly different bodies and played vastly different postions. Now one has taken more punishment then Welker has taken these last few seasons, and I think Rodney's point is well taken. 
    So if Harrison isn't criticizing him, then why bring his comments up in the context of your question about Welker?  Why are you questioning Welker's decision to play?  What would make you think Welker is at risk any more than any other player?  


    -Harrison was not criticizing Welker:  he simply said that he was brave to be playing and putting his career on the line so soon after the injury and not being 100% recovered.  I think Welker is more at risk than other players because his knee is not fully recovered from the injury and surgery.  Why is that so hard to understand?

    - -- - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- -

    Your implication seems to be that Welker shouldn't be playing because the Patriots can't possibly be serious about winning a championship because their ownership isn't committed to winning and the team is lousy.  Therefore he is risking his health in a hopeless cause.  If that's what you're saying, I think it's crazy.  If that's not what you're saying, where am I going wrong?   


    -Exactly, almost, but not in a hopeless cause, but in a calculated cause.  That is one of the implications in my questioning post:  that Welker may be  risking it all by going all out this season for a franchise that is not championship driven this year.  I never said the team is lousy or would not have a winning season.  I said they are good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to compete for the Super Bowl unless all the ducks line up in a row and lady luck throws all her charm our way. 

    I advocate for Welker to temper his ambitions for this season and that management limit his exposure until he is fully recovered and can play safely once again to his full capabilities.  I advocate that he not be exposed to the grueling punishment he has taken on the field in the previous seasons.

    It makes perfect sense to me to protect Welker until he is as fully recovered as he is going to be.  That does not mean not playing him, it means using discretion.

    And that, my dear friend, Cosmo, is not crazy.

    Posted by RajonRondowski
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish? : I get the same treatment from the Patriots.com message board.  When I say anything TRUTHFULL about the pats i.e. "negative", I get slammed for not being a "true" fan.  Everyone else is drinking the coolaid.  Most people will ALWAYS give BB a pass no matter HOW bad he drafts or sign FA(or the lack thereof).   I'm with you on the Welker thing.  With Edelman being a faster "Welker" he affords us to put Welker on the PUP for 6 weeks.
    Posted by theshinez[/QUOTE]

    YOU cant even spell Kool-Aid! ITS ON EVERY PACKET! Why would we trust your opinion about anything else?  Heck, you are on the internet, GOOGLE it!  You blew "truthful" also.
    Welker wants a big new contract.  He is demonstrating that he is worth it. He is cleared to play, and if he re-injures the knee, it will be a new injury, not related to the old one.  That's how it works.  He is now very important as a distraction to a defense, as well as a target.  They must account for Moss and Welker, opening some spaces for Tate, Hernandez, Gronk, or Edelman. I for one am glad he is back and looking sharp. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish? : - In Response to Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish? : - Listen up, Cosmo, I didn't predict doom & gloom either, just disputed any claim that the Krafts are championship driven this season. ... Based on what?  A hunch, a gut feeling?  Or is it something you can point to, like failing to sign all the key free agents in the offseason and the quarterback in his contract year.  Ooops, never mind...  -

    The failure to sign Logan Mankins says volumes about the Krafts as well as the way they dismantled the defense and left us with a D that is not competitive enough to win it all.  Not to mention the way they have alienated the players:  there is a dis-connect between the players and management that means the players are no longer drinking the kool-aid.
     

    ROFL, because they didn't make Mankins the highest paid G in the league, that's your justification? I say Connolly is playing pro-bowl caliber G right now so why pay Mankins 8mil when you just extended Bodden, Wilfork, Brady, Ghost and have 2 big names like Welker and Moss coming up to take care of too. BTW on the D with the exception of A$ante and Seymour all the other players on the D retired or became to old to be very effective. If you haven't noticed they have used a great deal of 1st and 2nd round picks to put into the D. They hit on some and others they mised but they have been trying to rebuild their D. They haven't given up on it.

     "What you see is what you get.", and BB says, "It is what it is." and I'm asking, What is it?  What kind of team do we have this season: a low scoring turnover prone offense with a young, unorganized, inexperienced, mistake prone, defense, or a team with a very potent offense and a hustling, confident, over-achieving, well coached defense? Wait and see.  That's why they play the games. Too early to tell.  I have more cliches if you want them... Bottom line is you can't possibly draw any conclusions at this point.  None.  Again, they started 0-2 in 2001.  The Giants started 0-2 in 2007 and gave up 80 points in those two games.  They were talking about firing Coughlin.  I'd say that defense turned out OK.

    -It's not about clichés or drawing conclusions:  what I said is that it is difficult to know who this team is right now or how far they can go, and all you say here is, that, basically, you agree.  Isn't that right?  And what happened in the past, to a completely different Pats team, means nothing to todays's team.

    And todays team is 2-1 so far with a 07' type offense again and a young defense that will improve. They have a better shot of being +.500 then below and yet you talk as if they already gave up on going after a SB this year

    The rest seems pointless to argue with about you because you just don't seem to understand the concept that it is infact Welkers choice and HE decided he wanted to play. Any risk of injury is the same as anyone else on the field. Oh and please don't try to compare his injury to othes with ACL's. Even Welkers doctors said his was a minor tear that had the ability to heal quicker then full tears that take up to 2 years to heal. I am speaking from experience too since I've torn my ACL and MCL. There are diferent types of tears and depending on the severity it can completely knock you off your feet for a long period or just for 6 months and be able to get back into a normal routine though slightly weaker, which takes time to get back to original strength but doesn't pose a huge risk on reinjury from non contact.

     Posted by RajonRondowski
    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    It took me about 2 minutes to find this out.  The Patriots have spent 132 million on their roster this year, more than they ever have in any other year.  Several teams only spent about 80 million.  If Kraft wasn't committed to winning than wouldn't it stand to reason that he would have spent closer to 80 million and pocketed the other 50 million?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    It looks to me that the Pats are wisely limiting Welker's exposure to injury by not expecting him to be the workhorse he was before the injury.  He's had 8, 6, and 4 receptions in games 1 through 3.

    I agree with this because there's no way Welker can absorb the punishment he took in previous seasons on a less than fully recovered knee.

    Welker has looked good at times, and I love his 3 TDs.   That's a good way to use him.

    I'm all for protecting Wes, even if it's from himself, because we are going to need him down the stretch, and if we go into the playoffs.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Is Wes Welker being Foolish?

    On a positive note, this in from Boston.com:

    Wes Welker extended his streak to 66 regular-season games with at least one catch. He has 364 receptions as a Patriot, moving past Irving Fryar into fifth place on the team’s all-time list.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/09/27/patriots_defense_reaches_for_positives__two_interceptions/?page=3

    Hard to believe init?  I still kinda think of Wes as a new guy.

    That's just plain wrong, I know, on this team he should be considered a long tenured player.

    But, dammn, he's been a productive little feller, aint he.

    Long may he run (to paraphrase an old, classic rock Neil Young song).
     

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