It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I know people will jump all over me because of this, but with how NE does business I think it would make sense to trade Welker before 2011 for the following reasons:

    a) Welker and Branch are in the last year of their deals. You can either wait to make the transition with the WR corps or not, but the pats are usually proactive (see R Seymour). Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but selling when their players have the highest value is something they do. Lets see what Edelman can do in a full season.

    b) There is no way Welker is still a 'very good' player three years from now. The wear and tear from the physical brand of football he plays will render him useless. His career will eventually hit a Wayne Chrebet/Troy Brown type wall. Getting a 2nd round for him now would bring value to the team 4 yrs from now, when Welker will probably be a step or two slower (or out of the league).

    c) You have a somewhat similar player in Edelman. Julian can't touch Welker's intangibles, but right now he's a better athlete. He's faster, bigger, and is better in the open field. Welker is still very quick and can get open in a 0-10 yd range, but he's not out running any CB. Edelman can.

    d) It's a small sample size, but in the last two playoff losses Edelman was among the few players who played well and played hard. I get the impression that he would perform in big spots, which has been an issue for the pats.

    e) The economics of it work out. If Edelman can replace 80% of welkers catches then you're saving money and getting similar production.

    f) Aaron hernandez can handle more of the underneath role if Edelman falters. There's talent on the O that provides a factor of safety. 





     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    ya Troy Brown sure hit that wall, at age 38!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    You've had too much time to think since the season ended. It's not good for you. There must be a few things to fix around the house right?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Using that logic they might as well trade Brady, too. Three postseason losses in a row. Dump him while the price is high!

    Seriously, the only thing that's "high" is maybe you! Welker has been the man. This year he's had a season to fully recover, he'll be back to 07-08 form. The only changes they should make is on the Oline. And mostly depth, at that. I wouldn't mind seeing another WR on the outside to draw coverage like Randy used to do. But a role player type, not a guy who wanted to be a superstar. Who knows if Tate's hands will improve? They need to keep Wes, and get him signed before he hits FA. If any of the WRs are expendable it's Branch.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I'd give him one more year because the injury he's coming off of is really a two year thing. Plus, I know it's a business and that's the Patriots company line but I honestly think Welker epitomizes what the Patriots are about; the guy worked his tail off to come back early for his teammates and after a decent year, he said he did nothing on the field to warrant a new extension.

    Seriously, which team wouldn't want a guy like that around?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    stoopid to ever think BB would trade Welker
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    While I don't necessarily agree with Rockdog I don't think it's fair to call the post stupid (well maybe the Troy Brown/Chrebet wall statement was stupid)

    There were some valid points made and the outcome will have a lot to do with Welker's demands.  I could see BB going this route if they were miles apart in contract negotiations but I think they'll at least try to extend or re-sign him before deciding to look at trades.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I think this is a classic case of over thinking.  I agree with a lot of what you say in terms of the potential of Edelman and Hernandez but you simply don't trade players like Welker.  If you trade Welker, you lose the locker room.  It's that simple.  If a guy who epitomizes the Patriots as much as Welker is just shipped out of town for no reason, it reflects very poorly on the team to the rest of the players.  Plus, Welker will never hold out for the last penny he can get, so why not squeeze out every year of ability he has in him?  With all due respect to Troy Brown and the many other great players who have played with Brady, Welker's skill set is a match made in heaven for Brady's skill set.  Plus he doesn't make a ton of money.  All in all, there's nothing we could get for Welker that would make this a better team now or in the future.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    You simply don't trade players like:

    Randy Moss
    Richard Seymour
    Lawyer Milloy


    I think it's naive to think there'll be no surprise moves in the future given the list above. Comments? Is Welker different? If so, why?

    I can also add Deion Branch to the list. 

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]I think this is a classic case of over thinking.  I agree with a lot of what you say in terms of the potential of Edelman and Hernandez but you simply don't trade players like Welker.  If you trade Welker, you lose the locker room.  It's that simple.  If a guy who epitomizes the Patriots as much as Welker is just shipped out of town for no reason, it reflects very poorly on the team to the rest of the players.  Plus, Welker will never hold out for the last penny he can get, so why not squeeze out every year of ability he has in him?  With all due respect to Troy Brown and the many other great players who have played with Brady, Welker's skill set is a match made in heaven for Brady's skill set.  Plus he doesn't make a ton of money.  All in all, there's nothing we could get for Welker that would make this a better team now or in the future.
    Posted by pyegian[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    So Wayne Chrebet and Troy Brown didn't have dramatic drops in production? 


    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]While I don't necessarily agree with Rockdog I don't think it's fair to call the post stupid (well maybe the Troy Brown/Chrebet wall statement was stupid) .  There were some valid points made and the outcome will have a lot to do with Welker's demands.  I could see BB going this route if they were miles apart in contract negotiations but I think they'll at least try to extend or re-sign him before deciding to look at trades.
    Posted by siestafiesta[/QUOTE]
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    what business are you talking about?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I'm not arguing Welker isn't a great patriot. He's a great player and a warrior. I'm just saying the patriots MO is to get value from players in their last year of a contract. They aren't afraid to lose the locker room one week before the season or in the offseason. They run a business. I think it's similar to when they traded Deion Branch. I'll agree that Welker won't break the bank (mostly because he doesn't have raw skills that translate to every team), but I'm just saying it makes sense to make a move on the WR core a year before they need to make wholesale changes. 

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]I'd give him one more year because the injury he's coming off of is really a two year thing. Plus, I know it's a business and that's the Patriots company line but I honestly think Welker epitomizes what the Patriots are about; the guy worked his tail off to come back early for his teammates and after a decent year, he said he did nothing on the field to warrant a new extension. Seriously, which team wouldn't want a guy like that around?
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I expected little from Welker this past year given that he was coming off a serious knee injury, he played fine. Expect him to have a strong season this year.

    I love the guy and what he has done for this team and I'm more concerned that we haven't re-done his deal.

    Guys like Welker don't come around all that often, treasure him while you can.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Well, I've been arguing that they have too many slot receivers (Welker, Edelman, Branch) and no (effective) x or z type receivers (Tate, Price, and Slater).  So I could actually see getting rid of one of the slots if they could replace the guy they lost with an effective vertical receiver.  The problem with getting rid of Welker, though, is he's probably the most potent weapon we have at the receiver position--a guy defenses have to game plan against.  If we lose that and don't replace him with another guy defenses fear, I think we end up with a pretty mediocre receiving corp.  Our TEs are good . . . but we still need good wideouts to mount an effective passing offense.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Branch got traded cause he held out IMHO.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Well Welker could have one foot out of the door after his comments on Rex :)

    It is enough to keep you on your toes in anticipation if he will again set foot on the field in a Pats uniform.

    But as Welker said he is a good little foot soldier and will put his best foot forward.

    As for Edelman and Hernadez - sure they have good feet, fast steps and catch the ball, but they do not have the locker presence or experience to carry Welkers cleats.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I just think it's a classic case of trying to get value for a guy with 1 year left on his deal. although Welker won't be expensive to resign, I don't know if there's a lot more upside if you give him a long-term deal. I look at him like a RB with all the hits he takes, and expect him to eventually go from Dillon of 2005 to Dillon of 2006 because of wear and tear. Since they have a Welker clone now in Edelman I just see a lot of advantages to making the move now that they still have Branch. And I am pretty confident that Edelman will eventually be a better player as WW and Edelman are on different paths (unless you are in the camp that thinks Edelman stinks because he's not great without a ton of PT). 




    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]Well, I've been arguing that they have too many slot receivers (Welker, Edelman, Branch) and no (effective) x or z type receivers (Tate, Price, and Slater).  So I could actually see getting rid of one of the slots if they could replace the guy they lost with an effective vertical receiver.  The problem with getting rid of Welker, though, is he's probably the most potent weapon we have at the receiver position--a guy defenses have to game plan against.  If we lose that and don't replace him with another guy defenses fear, I think we end up with a pretty mediocre receiving corp.  Our TEs are good . . . but we still need good wideouts to mount an effective passing offense.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Branch wanted to get paid and the pats didn't think he was worth it. The pats were right but I still think they probably win a superbowl in 2006 if you have Branch as option 1 instead of Caldwell. Should they have overpaid? There's no right answer...

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]Branch got traded cause he held out IMHO.
    Posted by Philskiw1[/QUOTE]
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    I'll take some of the stones for you Rock.  I brought up this idea as well a couple of months ago.

    It makes sense if you take your fandom out the equation and look at in terms of economics, it makes sense.  So far the only time Edleman has produced is when Wes was hurt and he had a more defined role.  Getting rid of Wes is basically saying I am going with the younger , faster , bigger version of him, but with less experience, but I am one that also beleives that if Julian does not have a defined role you will see him more out at parties trying to play another role, but with a starting position, I think he would excel and the fact he may not be reliable as Wes only helps cuz maybe now #12 wont have tunnel vision looking for him.  It would enhance our spread offense, give us more speed and size and the option to play him outside (something Wes struggles at)  and also save some major scratch, while possibly ridding yourself of future annoyances like the "press conference"  also, Branch can play slot in a pinch and do it well, and you have 3 great tight ends that can get open short.  Not that I dont like Wes, but I dont think he will be worth what he is asking in his new contract.  he doesnt score that many TD's, has lost a step on punt returns and isnt a break away threat.  I dont think you pay TOP Wr money for that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    It's definitley something to consider.  

    If Edelman wasn't here, I'd say no, but clearly Edelman would fit a poor man's Welker role.  Then again, Edleman isn't the healthiest WR on the team either.

    So, that's a question mark.

    It's really a matter of what Welker is looking for in the new deal.

    If it's something like what Mankins does, then yes, you consider dealing him.

    If he's just looking for a deserved raise and some security, but not anything outlandish, I'd keep Welker because generally speaking he's healthy and so consistent in that role.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    As for Edelman and Hernadez - sure they have good feet, fast steps and catch the ball, but they do not have the locker presence or experience to carry Welkers cleats.
    Posted by Patriots1970[/QUOTE]

    Not saying I agree with the trade Welker sentiment, but who says that Edelman and Hernandez couldn't step in and fill the void?  Edelman in particular looks like a promising candidate to play the slot.  All he does is make plays when he plays consistently. 

    Also, how do you know about Welker's locker room presence?  After the whole "foot" press conference shenanigans, it was actually reported by members of the Boston media that Welker is not very well liked in circles in the Pats locker room because he is regarded as arrogant by some.  Not saying I believe it, but your report of his locker room presence is contrary to what guys who cover the team for a living have said about him.    
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    You can't compare one man's career to another.

    I don't know why Troy Brown's name is being mentioned.  Each case is different. Each salary is differenct. Each context is different.

    In Welker's mind, he hasn't gotten paid yet. Keep that in mind. 

    Welker is still in his prime and as long as the contract demands aren't silly, he'll get his new deal.  He's still too valuable to walk away from now, even with nice compensation in return.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Edelman has been so inconsistent and hurt his whole career its amazing people want to replace Welker with him.  As for Hernadez he will either be in the TE or Wide-out spots.  I don't see him in the slot alot. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    In Response to It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]I know people will jump all over me because of this, but with how NE does business I think it would make sense to trade Welker before 2011 for the following reasons: a) Welker and Branch are in the last year of their deals. You can either wait to make the transition with the WR corps or not, but the pats are usually proactive (see R Seymour). Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but selling when their players have the highest value is something they do. Lets see what Edelman can do in a full season. b) There is no way Welker is still a 'very good' player three years from now. The wear and tear from the physical brand of football he plays will render him useless. His career will eventually hit a Wayne Chrebet/Troy Brown type wall. Getting a 2nd round for him now would bring value to the team 4 yrs from now, when Welker will probably be a step or two slower (or out of the league). c) You have a somewhat similar player in Edelman. Julian can't touch Welker's intangibles, but right now he's a better athlete. He's faster, bigger, and is better in the open field. Welker is still very quick and can get open in a 0-10 yd range, but he's not out running any CB. Edelman can. d) It's a small sample size, but in the last two playoff losses Edelman was among the few players who played well and played hard. I get the impression that he would perform in big spots, which has been an issue for the pats. e) The economics of it work out. If Edelman can replace 80% of welkers catches then you're saving money and getting similar production. f) Aaron hernandez can handle more of the underneath role if Edelman falters. There's talent on the O that provides a factor of safety. 
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    only when the player has unrelaistic expectations... unless your somehow traded to the raiders of course...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of)

    Thanks for the words killa. I actually think it makes a lot of sense and disagree with how you in regards to how long Welker can be a good player. I think he'll burn out in 1-3 years and need to be replaced. I brought up Troy Brown because he was the number 1 option and he fell to a role player when he was older. Still a great patriot, but not Brady's first option. Reche freakin Caldwell played ahead of him! Again, Troy Brown is the man but his skills diminished to the point where he wasn't a productive WR. 

    It's fine to disagree, but it's good to have a convo about it rather than people claiming I'm high.

    In Response to Re: It makes business sense to trade Welker now (if CBA is taken care of):
    [QUOTE]Rockdog you are one of few people I have much respect for as far as posting goes so I wont blast you for this but I will say your wrong and just way off base. For one Troy Brown was effective all the way up till he retired. His last year aside cause of injury. We would be lucky to have Welker play that kind of role. Did Brown's numbers drop? Big time but his clutch catches in times of need will go down in history and Welker brings the same thing. Another thing, Branch might be gone at the end of his contract (but i doubt it, he has said he wants to retire here) but Welker has such a great relationship with Brady that I cant see him leaving, he will already be past the point of grabbing a big time contract due to his age and size and the knee injury so he will most likely IMO take a team friendly deal that pays him fairly and retire a Pat. And also, Wes Welker is a great not "very good" player right now, he is a great WR so 3 years from now he might not be great anymore but he will most definitely be very good. And he will most likely retire a very good player. Welker is not like a Randy Moss who cant do it once his speed fades cause he only runs deep routes. Welker is the kind of player who can change his game, his route running and timing is so good that even once he loses a step he will still be able to get away from defenders and make big plays or clutch plays. That wont fade with age. So although I respect your opinion I have to say on this one IMO your way off base.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]
     

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