It's about the players s*****.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    It's about the players s*****.

    John Fox gets it.

     

    "Don Shula won more games than anybody else and he was great. You look at his quarterbacks. He had Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino. Vince Lombardi had what, like 13 Hall of Famers? Don't let any coach fool you, it's about the players you have."

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    the coach has a lot to do with it too. the niners kept almost all the same players when the change from singletary to harbaugh was made, big difference. in another sport, take the nba and the lakers. they couldn't even make the finals with del harris, same players they win the championship with phil jackson. Jackson did the same with the bulls when he took over for doug collins. 

    coaches make a big difference imo, they have to have the right players of course but leadership is key. i'd say that when the patriots won super bowl 36 the rams may have had a little more talent at the time but belichick was a far superior coach to mike martz.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    I don't know BB seems to take any player off the street and make them better.  Look at Woodhead released by the Jets and walks in and makes an impact the first year.  How many coaches ask Troy Brown to play D and make it work?  I think we need to give BB a lot of credit for keeping this team at this level for so long.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    The guy should be taking credit for getting to the Divisional round last year with Teblow and to the Super Bowl with Dehomo...So if he loses on Sunday does that mean he has the same talent this year as he did last year?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    John Fox gets it.

     

    "Don Shula won more games than anybody else and he was great. You look at his quarterbacks. He had Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino. Vince Lombardi had what, like 13 Hall of Famers? Don't let any coach fool you, it's about the players you have."

    [/QUOTE]

    It is about the players and the coaches. You cant do it with out both. You bring up Vince Lombardi. He had a lot of great players. But he made many of them better than they would have been or were before he was there. He made them better as a team and as individuals.

    Look at some of the teams they played. The Cowboys wer certainly the better team in 1967 than the aging Packers and finished with a better record. But GB won the playoff matchup. His teams were tough and clutch. GB was not the only team in those big games with players.

    Time and again the coach is shown to make a big time difference. Lombardi started to do it again when he went to the Redskins for a year before he died of cancer (his record with the perviously hapless Skins was 7-5-2... his first year with the Packers: 7-5!)

    Any era, doesnt matter. You need players and coaches. If we were drafting a team and it included drafting coaches the first person I would take would be a head coach. Before any one player. No one is more important to success in football than the head coach. But you have to have players.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    It works both ways.

    Shanahan is a whole lot better with Elway or RG3 than he was with any other QB

    San Fransisco is a whole lot better with Jim Harbaugh leading the helm.

    The coaches job is to put the players in the best position to succeed. Great coaches maximize what you can get out of a player. The better the player, the more you can get out of him.

    Other way around too. Look at Randy Moss with whoever was coaching him in Oak, then look at him once he came to NE.

    Same with Alex Smith.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    I think a great coach - when with great players - wins Championships. That's what Belichick is and does...when he doesn't have those ingrediants he usuaully doesn't. To his credit, there are plenty of coaches that have great players that never sniff a Super Bowl.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think a great coach - when with great players - wins Championships. That's what Belichick is and does...when he doesn't have those ingrediants he usuaully doesn't. To his credit, there are plenty of coaches that have great players that never sniff a Super Bowl.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Do you think there are a lot of examples of coaches winning it all with about the same players his immediate predecessor had? I can think of examples of teams in disarray improving, but not winning it all simply due to a new HC.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    John Fox gets it.

     

    "Don Shula won more games than anybody else and he was great. You look at his quarterbacks. He had Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino. Vince Lombardi had what, like 13 Hall of Famers? Don't let any coach fool you, it's about the players you have."

    [/QUOTE]


    no john elway gets it

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to RockScully's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You have to be able to coach these players up in today's game, more than ever before. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Do you have anything to back up this claim junior, or are you just blowing hot air again?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    John Fox gets it.

     

    "Don Shula won more games than anybody else and he was great. You look at his quarterbacks. He had Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino. Vince Lombardi had what, like 13 Hall of Famers? Don't let any coach fool you, it's about the players you have."

    [/QUOTE]


    no john elway gets it

    [/QUOTE]


    Will you be saying that if Fetus Head goes one and out?

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think a great coach - when with great players - wins Championships. That's what Belichick is and does...when he doesn't have those ingrediants he usuaully doesn't. To his credit, there are plenty of coaches that have great players that never sniff a Super Bowl.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Do you think there are a lot of examples of coaches winning it all with about the same players his immediate predecessor had? I can think of examples of teams in disarray improving, but not winning it all simply due to a new HC.

    [/QUOTE]

    2002 Tampa Bay. Jon Gruden won the year after Dungy was canned. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    John Fox gets it.

     

    "Don Shula won more games than anybody else and he was great. You look at his quarterbacks. He had Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino. Vince Lombardi had what, like 13 Hall of Famers? Don't let any coach fool you, it's about the players you have."

    [/QUOTE]

    Shula also got to the SB with David Woodley. Of course you have to have some great players to win, but to me it's about what you get out of the lesser players on the roster. 

    If BB stuck with the Jets back in 2000 does anybody seriously think the history of these two teams wouldn't have been vastly different?  

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think a great coach - when with great players - wins Championships. That's what Belichick is and does...when he doesn't have those ingrediants he usuaully doesn't. To his credit, there are plenty of coaches that have great players that never sniff a Super Bowl.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Do you think there are a lot of examples of coaches winning it all with about the same players his immediate predecessor had? I can think of examples of teams in disarray improving, but not winning it all simply due to a new HC.

    [/QUOTE]

    Winning it all? There aren't many coaches that have won it all to begin with, never mind stepped into a situation where in their first year with a new team they go all the way. Someone mentioned Gruden (and this would be a great example of it NOT being the coach, but the players). Gruden comes in as an offensive guy...if I remember correctly the Bucs weren't much of an offense (they were defense)...the defense drove this guy to his Super Bowl title. Then you can throw in Billick (supposed to be an offensive guy)..won the Super Bowl with one of the worst offenses you'll ever see.

    I could be wrong about Gruden having not much to do with the Bucs winning it (his Monday night act makes me think he's an idiot), but he did do a good job in Oakland. I really don't remember if he turned the Buc's offense around and hence the reason they won the Super Bowl. 

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    well that settles it. I wonder why Foxy even has a job? His players must have been making him look god.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    Great coaches like Fox show the singular trait which makes most men great; humility. Dan Marino was the greatest QB of all time statistically, never won a ring... how is that possible?

    Oh yeah, whats the only difference between the 49ers three years ago and now; Harbaugh.

    In a sport with 53 man rosters you couldn't be more wrong.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think a great coach - when with great players - wins Championships. That's what Belichick is and does...when he doesn't have those ingrediants he usuaully doesn't. To his credit, there are plenty of coaches that have great players that never sniff a Super Bowl.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Do you think there are a lot of examples of coaches winning it all with about the same players his immediate predecessor had? I can think of examples of teams in disarray improving, but not winning it all simply due to a new HC.

    [/QUOTE]

    Winning it all? There aren't many coaches that have won it all to begin with, never mind stepped into a situation where in their first year with a new team they go all the way. Someone mentioned Gruden (and this would be a great example of it NOT being the coach, but the players). Gruden comes in as an offensive guy...if I remember correctly the Bucs weren't much of an offense (they were defense)...the defense drove this guy to his Super Bowl title. Then you can throw in Billick (supposed to be an offensive guy)..won the Super Bowl with one of the worst offenses you'll ever see.

    I could be wrong about Gruden having not much to do with the Bucs winning it (his Monday night act makes me think he's an idiot), but he did do a good job in Oakland. I really don't remember if he turned the Buc's offense around and hence the reason they won the Super Bowl. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The question was whether anybody has ever taken the same players and won a title in his first year, and Gruden is the answer (can't think of any others, although didn't Tomlin win in his first year?).

    Whatever you think of Gruden on MNF, the bottom line is he won a championship with the same players that Dungy continually failed with.  He got more out of them, he made a difference. It's a fact.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think a great coach - when with great players - wins Championships. That's what Belichick is and does...when he doesn't have those ingrediants he usuaully doesn't. To his credit, there are plenty of coaches that have great players that never sniff a Super Bowl.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Do you think there are a lot of examples of coaches winning it all with about the same players his immediate predecessor had? I can think of examples of teams in disarray improving, but not winning it all simply due to a new HC.

    [/QUOTE]

    Winning it all? There aren't many coaches that have won it all to begin with, never mind stepped into a situation where in their first year with a new team they go all the way. Someone mentioned Gruden (and this would be a great example of it NOT being the coach, but the players). Gruden comes in as an offensive guy...if I remember correctly the Bucs weren't much of an offense (they were defense)...the defense drove this guy to his Super Bowl title. Then you can throw in Billick (supposed to be an offensive guy)..won the Super Bowl with one of the worst offenses you'll ever see.

    I could be wrong about Gruden having not much to do with the Bucs winning it (his Monday night act makes me think he's an idiot), but he did do a good job in Oakland. I really don't remember if he turned the Buc's offense around and hence the reason they won the Super Bowl. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The question was whether anybody has ever taken the same players and won a title in his first year, and Gruden is the answer (can't think of any others, although didn't Tomlin win in his first year?).

    Whatever you think of Gruden on MNF, the bottom line is he won a championship with the same players that Dungy continually failed with.  He got more out of them, he made a difference. It's a fact.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, you're right. Someone mentioned Tomlin too, but Cowher won one with the Steelers before him. I know it doesn't count, but Vermeil did well with the Rams...offensive coach...built them into a dynamic offense and won the Super Bowl in a few years.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    Great coaches make role players good players, good players great, and great players historic. 

    Instructing players on the fundamentals of football, discipline, preparation, situational awareness, etc, is incredibly difficult. 

    The Patriots run has a lot to do with players, they've consistently had great talent. Credit Brady for being the cornerstone of that greatness through the years, but credit Belichik for keeping a competitve group around that nucleus. 

    But .... part of keeping that group competitive is coaching and developing players in house as well.  That is the earmark of a great coach. All the greatest seem to be surrounded by talent over their careers. The reason is they are good at spotting talent, and more importantly that that, good at coachhing players in such a way that they become more talented and disciplined. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: It's about the players s*****.

    Whiney Shula??? You do know that after the snow plow game in 82 he tried to get it rescinded to a scoreless tie? When the league refused to do that,  to appease him the schedule makers did not have Miami play a December game in Foxboro for 10 years!

     

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