It's the passing game, stupid!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    Well, I'd say that is understood, dude.   Mark Sanchez is not winning a SB for this reason.

    Your original statement said a running game isn't necessary.

    11 carries on paper, in my opinion, isn't really enough at the end of the day, but it worked here due to turnovers and match up ability.

    Without those drops, that game is probably more like a 45-17 type of thing.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    Well, I'd say that is understood, dude.   Mark Sanchez is not winning a SB for this reason. ...
    Posted by BBReigns


    Not for nothing, I wish you'd lose that pic of yours. I get the point, but it's really starting to creep me out. I liked the old BB shot much better!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    That's why it will stay.  If it creeps you out, how does it look when Jets trolls come in here and praise Sanchez?

    4th overall pick.

    Just enjoy the inept management of the Jets.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    That's why it will stay.  If it creeps you out, how does it look when Jets trolls come in here and praise Sanchez? 4th overall pick. Just enjoy the inept management of the Jets.
    Posted by BBReigns


    Hey, if it weren't for the Jets trolls, we'd have nobody to screw with. Dolphins, Bills, not nearly as much fun. Colts are tired, Steelers boring.  Ravens have like 5 fans. Long live the Jets and their hopeless, ignorant followers!

    But the pic still makes me uncomfortable.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    It makes me more than uncomfortable.

    It's kind of like watching a documentary on Nazi Germany. Makes one uncomfortable, but there is something about learning about what you are watching.

    hehe
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    He was busy letting old and decript Schottenheimer players walk.

    But, we're glad you enjoyed that 2 year window you had when NE was at its weakest.

    Nothing like a 11-5, 10-6, and 14-2 run, two division titles, etc, during the Jets peak years since 1969.

    lol!

    Window closed.

    Hey, at least they tried to sandwich in all those veteran players at once, right, Phatty?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    In Response to It's the passing game, stupid! : Sorry, disagree. If it wasn't for Mendenhall coughing up the ball, the Steelers were on their way to winning that game due to the run.
    Posted by CarveMaster

    Yeah, and if the Steelers would have won, they would have won.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    #1 Passing O - Colts (Lost wildcard)
    #2 Passing O - SD (missed playoffs)
    #3 Passing O - NO (Lost wildcard)
    #4 Passing O - Hou (missed playoffs)
    #5 Passing O - GB (won SB)
    #6 Passing O - Dal (missed playoffs)
    #7 Passing O - Den (missed playoffs)
    #8 Passing O - Was (missed playoffs)
    #9 Passing O - Phi (Lost wildcard)
    #10 Passing O - Giants (missed playoffs)

    #1 Defense points allowed - Pitt (Lost SB)
    #2 Defense points allowed - GB (Won SB)
    #3 Defense points allowed - Balt (Lost div round)
    #4 Defense points allowed - Chi (Lost NFC Champ)
    #5 Defense points allowed - Atl (Lost div round)
    #6 Defense points allowed - NYJ (Lost AFC Champ)
    #7 Defense points allowed - NO (Lost wildcard)
    #8 Defense points allowed - NE (Lost div round)
    #9 Defense points allowed - TB (missed playoffs)
    #10 Defense points allowed - SD (missed playoffs)

    So 4/10 of the best passing O's this year made the playoffs and only 1 made it out of the wildcard round. 8/10 top ranked defense in points allowed made the playoffs. 7 making it to the div round where only 8 teams play and all 4 conference championship teams.

    I'm going to go with "it's not the passing game that wins the SB, but the total points allowed by the D" for $1000 Alex
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    I think basing an entire offensive philosophy on ONE GAME is a bit over the top.  It's not like the NFL plays best of 7 series to get to the championship.  Its win 2 or 3 and you are in.  Different opponents take different approaches, so abandoning the run game in ONE situation may be warranted, but you will fall flat eventually.  I think the thing I like best about the Patriots is the fluid nature of their designs.  They are what they need to be.  We could have gone toe to toe with either of the SB teams, and easily could have won (yes, or lost) either matchup.  The Jests beat us based on their game day strategy versus the Patriots (along with some sorry execution on the Patriots side) but that doesn't work in every game, or every matchup. Its at the heart of that "any given sunday" thing that people like to talk about.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from itsjustagame1. Show itsjustagame1's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    I dunno...I still think it's about the D.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid! : Oooooh, you mean rebuilding.  I hear that can be a long process.  Rex has been rebuilding for a couple of years now.
    Posted by PhatRex


    No, he hasn't. 

    Rex acquired a knee-jerk short term team build where Tannenbaum drafted a small core of good/great players and tried to quickly assemble pricey veteran FAs all at once to win now.

    He hasn't won anything. He hasn't even won a division title.

    FAIL

    NE's approach, as stated is one that is slower but more methodical and built for years and years to come.

    SUCCESS

    Enjoy, Phatty!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    [QUOTE... So 4/10 of the best passing O's this year made the playoffs and only 1 made it out of the wildcard round. 8/10 top ranked defense in points allowed made the playoffs. 7 making it to the div round where only 8 teams play and all 4 conference championship teams. I'm going to go with "it's not the passing game that wins the SB, but the total points allowed by the D" for $1000 Alex
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    This just proves that it helps to have a good scoring defense. Obviously. But it doesn't disprove that you cannot win without a good to great passing game. There are exceptions that in my view prove the rule, like the Pats losing SB 42.  The Pats were a far superior team to the Giants in all respects, yes even defensively.  The best team in NFL history in my opinion. Weird stuff happens, but that doesn't change in any way, my contention that you can't win consistently with a mediocre passing game.   
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid! : [QUOTE... So 4/10 of the best passing O's this year made the playoffs and only 1 made it out of the wildcard round. 8/10 top ranked defense in points allowed made the playoffs. 7 making it to the div round where only 8 teams play and all 4 conference championship teams. I'm going to go with "it's not the passing game that wins the SB, but the total points allowed by the D" for $1000 Alex Posted by PatsEng
    This just proves that it helps to have a good scoring defense. Obviously. But it doesn't disprove that you cannot win without a good to great passing game. There are exceptions that in my view prove the rule, like the Pats losing SB 42.  The Pats were a far superior team to the Giants in all respects, yes even defensively.  The best team in NFL history in my opinion. Weird stuff happens, but that doesn't change in any way, my contention that you can't win consistently with a mediocre passing game.   
    Posted by Muzwell


    I wasn't saying scoring defenses I was pointing out defenses who give up the least amount of points.

    Here's a 10 year span of the SB winners.

    2011 - GB 24th rushing, 5th passing, 2nd points allowed
    2010 - NO 6th rushing, 4th passing, 20th points allowed
    2009 - Pit 23rd rushing, 17th passing, 1st points allowed
    2008 - NYG 4th rushing, 21st passing, 17th points allowed
    2007 - Indy 18th, 12th passing, 23rd points allowed
    2006 - Pit 5th rushing, 24th passing, 3rd points allowed
    2005 - NE 7th rushing, 11th passing, 2nd points allowed
    2004 - NE 27th rushing, 9th passing, 1st points allowed
    2003 - TB 27th rushing, 15th passing, 1st points allowed
    2002 - NE 13th rushing, 22nd passing, 6th points allowed

    Over that span it doesn't seem to really matter if your rushing or passing was better overall as it looks like they are relatively even. It just looks skewed since the last 2 were won by passing teams although NO was also a very highly ranked rushing team. The only consistent thing that comes out is average points allowed per game. The top 10 in defense for points allowed won 70% of the SB's (2 being in the last 4 years), the top 10 passing teams won 30% (2 being a top 5 D, 2 being in the last 4 years), the top 10 rushing won 40% (2 being a top 5 D, 2 being in the last 4 years)

    Looking at this honestly you could have an average passing or rushing O just as long as one or the other is slightly better then average and the biggest thing you need a dominating D that doesn't give up points. That's the only factor that seems constant over the 10 year period. 

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    I think a balanced offense is best of course, but if I had to choose, I'd probably pick a passing offense to win it. If you fall behind you are in trouble if you can't pass it. The passing game can be set up like a running game with swing passes, screens (all 4000 different varieties), quick slants, etc. The rules are so in favor of a passing game; qb's can't be touched or recievers for that matter. Points are the name of the game and I think you can score more and quicker with an explosive passing attack. Plus remember where the Super Bowl is played (in doors or warm), getting there is a different story though.

    Really neither offense means jack if you can't play D...I'd take an outstanding defense over an outstanding offense though.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    Having a great QB is what makes the difference.  Without Drew Brees, the Saints dont have a running game last year.  Without Tom Brady, the Pats rush offense would have been horrid.

    But having a great QB doesnt mean you need to keep passing the ball. You still need to run to take some pressure off the QB.  Offenses are pretty much designed to get the QB into a rhythm.  When a QB is in a groove, you're almost always gonna win.  And when I say groove, I dont mean passing for 400 yards and 4 tds.  I mean converting necessary first downs and touchdowns.

    I dont know what if what I said made any sense.  But, you dont need to pass for 300 yards every game to win.  Look at the two championship games for example.  Its all about balance and converting important third downs and red zone opportunities.  Usually a good balanced comes with an elite QB who is capable of throwing 400 yards and 4 tds...but those stat lines arent necessary.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    But all in all. Good defense with an efficient offense wins championships.  Just Look at the Texans. Great passing game (and rushing for that matter), 6-10.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    GB was a relative unknown going into this game. Pitt prepared a game plan expecting more balance; they were still defending with the mindset that GB would run any time. In this case, the sudden death format worked in GB's favor. If the championship involved a series of three or five games, GB would not stand a chance because Pitt would learn that GB's run game is as lame as NWE's and they would defend accordingly - perhaps apply the D that the Jets applied on the last NWE loss.

    From 2001 to 2004, it was a similar advantage that NWE had. Brady was an unknown entity, not recognized as central to NWE's success and not recognized as the key to beating NWE.

    Eventually, other teams figured out that NWE's game is really just for show but has not been good enough to inspire confidence within the coaching staff. Put on a tight spot, the Pats will have Brady throw the ball. It can be any of the gazillion pass plays in the Pats playbook, but all other teams know that the odds of TB throwing is much greater. And on the very few cases that NWE actually runs the ball, its not going to be fore long yardage - so the downside for the other team is low. Odds favor them if they bet the farm on defending the pass even if it means not defending the run honestly.

    Teams simply try to keep the Pats on a tight spot the entire game and if they can keep it tight through the start of the fourth, they know that they will win because the Pats have no ability to grind out a win on the ground. The team is built to score many points, not necessarily do whatever is necessary to win games.

    NWE is not likely to win another SB with TB unless the team is reconstructed so that it becomes fully capable of winning games without TB having to throw to win it for them.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    GB was a relative unknown going into this game. Pitt prepared a game plan expecting more balance; they were still defending with the mindset that GB would run any time. In this case, the sudden death format worked in GB's favor. If the championship involved a series of three or five games, GB would not stand a chance because Pitt would learn that GB's run game is as lame as NWE's and they would defend accordingly - perhaps apply the D that the Jets applied on the last NWE loss. From 2001 to 2004, it was a similar advantage that NWE had. Brady was an unknown entity, not recognized as central to NWE's success and not recognized as the key to beating NWE. Eventually, other teams figured out that NWE's game is really just for show but has not been good enough to inspire confidence within the coaching staff. Put on a tight spot, the Pats will have Brady throw the ball. It can be any of the gazillion pass plays in the Pats playbook, but all other teams know that the odds of TB throwing is much greater. And on the very few cases that NWE actually runs the ball, its not going to be fore long yardage - so the downside for the other team is low. Odds favor them if they bet the farm on defending the pass even if it means not defending the run honestly. Teams simply try to keep the Pats on a tight spot the entire game and if they can keep it tight through the start of the fourth, they know that they will win because the Pats have no ability to grind out a win on the ground. The team is built to score many points, not necessarily do whatever is necessary to win games. NWE is not likely to win another SB with TB unless the team is reconstructed so that it becomes fully capable of winning games without TB having to throw to win it for them.
    Posted by seattlepat70

    to the point and well said seattle pat70

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid! : Yep, inept management gets you to the championship game two years in a row (as opposed to not winning a playoff game for 3 years with great management)  Inept management gets you guys like Revis, Mangold, Harris, Scott, Holmes, Brick, on and on.  Inept management gets you 2 top 5 defenses in a HC first 2 years.  How did BB do in his first 2 years as a HC?   
    Posted by PhatRex


    Phat Rex - great idea jumping on Mangini's old picks.... You should be praising Tannenbaum not your HC. Tannenbaum is the one that is also now suffering from short term pluggin all the holes to get Rexy to the AFC Championship the past two years.

    In 2011 Jests could be without Harris, Holmes, Edwards, Taylor, Pool, Ellis, Cromartie, Tomlinson - so where is your veteran leadership going to come from? Sanchez??

    No you will have to go out in the market and over spend to get them or 'rebuild' with picks...
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SilverSun. Show SilverSun's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    It is always about the D!  The top 4 teams - check the AFC and NFC Championship Games all had outstanding Ds.  Its why Pats were not still standing and remains what the team needs to improve in offseason.  DL and OLB.
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    Unless you have an amazingly good defense, you win in the Super Bowl by scoring a decent amount of points. Generally, you can't do that without a good passing game, so passing is important. At the same time, however, having a decent running game improves your passing game because it makes the defense have to worry about more things than just pass rush and pass coverage.  The Packers don't have much of running game, but they have a good passing game and a very good defense.  Their victory had a lot to do with their defense, which forced turnovers and gave the offense a lot of chances. 
     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    I don't think anyone is saying that you HAVE to run the ball to win. I think that people are saying that you'll win more consistently. Other than the Saints, no favored team has won the past 5 or 6 super bowls.
    Having a running game will help you get through a dog fight. Look at SB 42: Pats passing attack was being shut down by a good pass defense. They tried the running game, but it failed miserably. If your passing game is on, then that's great. Everyone and their sisters (who rarely know anything about football anyways) knew that the Patriots couldn't run the ball in '07. If you can disrupt the passing attack, it's game over for an unbalanced team like Green Bay. If the Steelers stuck to the running game, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Mendenhall was effective enough to continue feeding him the ball.
    Yes, you need a QB that can execute when needed, and to take advantage of the opposing defense when they overplay the run. If you look at this decades Super Bowl champs, that is exactly what you'll see. That was what Brady did when he was younger. That was what the rapist did. That was why the Cardinals couldn't get it done in '08.
    Yes, a passing offense will probably put up more points. But a running attack will control the game, time of possession, and will move the chains.
    I don't think the Jets will win a championship until Sanchez can improve, and I don't think the Patriots will until they trust their running game again. It works both ways.
    The Packers wouldn't have won the game if the Steelers don't turn the ball over. I know that the odds of winning a game are greatly increased if you win the turnover battle by one. But the Steelers turned the ball over 3 times, and the Packers cashed in every time, and once getting instant winnings. They don't make those turnovers, and the Pack was screwed, and we'd all be pointing to a lack of running game as the reason why.
     
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