It's the passing game, stupid!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    [QUOTE]... The team is built to score many points, not necessarily do whatever is necessary to win games. NWE is not likely to win another SB with TB unless the team is reconstructed so that it becomes fully capable of winning games without TB having to throw to win it for them.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Really?  The Pats were 9th in the NFL in rushing.  Pittsburgh with the vaunted Mendenhall was 11th.  Minnesota with the great Peterson was 10th.  Tennessee with the amazing CJ2K was 17th.  In fact, the only playoff teams ahead of the Pats were the Chiefs, Jets and Eagles (thanks largely to the QB). 

    Clearly, they desperately need a marquee back to win.  That's what's missing.  NOT!

    KC, Oakland and Jacksonville were 1, 2, 3.  Maybe they should model their attack on those dynamic offenses. 

    The Pats rush offense is fine thank you.  BJGE doesn't need to be replaced.  It's still all about the passing game.  You need to pass it in crunch time and you need to be able to defend the pass.  The Pats were terrible at the latter, that's why they lost, not because they couldn't run it effectively.  Sorry that's just dumb.

    You need 4 or better yet 5 solid CBs, like Green Bay.  And it would be nice to put the QB on his back every now and then.  Pittsburgh put all kinds of heat on Rodgers (he was hit on 36 of 39 drop backs), but they lost because the back end of their defense, including the hair guy, played poorly.  That, and their QB was bested by a better QB.

    This isn't rocket science.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid! : Really?  The Pats were 9th in the NFL in rushing.  Pittsburgh with the vaunted Mendenhall was 11th.  Minnesota with the great Peterson was 10th.  Tennessee with the amazing CJ2K was 17th.  In fact, the only playoff teams ahead of the Pats were the Chiefs, Jets and Eagles (thanks largely to the QB).  Clearly, they desperately need a marquee back to win.  That's what's missing.  NOT! KC, Oakland and Jacksonville were 1, 2, 3.  Maybe they should model their attack on those dynamic offenses.  The Pats rush offense is fine thank you.  BJGE doesn't need to be replaced.  It's still all about the passing game.  You need to pass it in crunch time and you need to be able to defend the pass.  The Pats were terrible at the latter, that's why they lost, not because they couldn't run it effectively.  Sorry that's just dumb. You need 4 or better yet 5 solid CBs, like Green Bay.  And it would be nice to put the QB on his back every now and then.  Pittsburgh put all kinds of heat on Rodgers (he was hit on 36 of 39 drop backs), but they lost because the back end of their defense, including the hair guy, played poorly.  That, and their QB was bested by a better QB. This isn't rocket science.
    Posted by Muzwell[/QUOTE]

    Great post bro. I was one of the more uneducted and misinformed fans who felt Law Firm needed to be replaced with a 'better' back so he could be 2nd string and have Woody come in on 3rd downs. I've officially been convinced! Good stuff.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid! : Great post bro. I was one of the more uneducted and misinformed fans who felt Law Firm needed to be replaced with a 'better' back so he could be 2nd string and have Woody come in on 3rd downs. I've officially been convinced! Good stuff.
    Posted by apdynasty23[/QUOTE]

    Muzell was pretty dead on with BJGE. I'm in the camp that you don't need a true #1 RB but you need some type of balanced running game to keep defenses honest.

    I think a bigger bruiser back would compliment Woodhead and BJGE very nicely. BJGE seems like a 10-20 carry back with Woodhead being the smaller change of pace quick 3rd down back but you need that short yard back that will get you the tough 1-2 yards but also when teams decide to go to a prevent or dime package defenses (ala Jets) a bruiser back would break into the secondary and beat up those DB's.

    My general feeling though is that you can be either average with rushing or passing just as long as the other is above average and of course you have a top 10 points allowed D
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid! :...I think a bigger bruiser back would compliment Woodhead and BJGE very nicely. BJGE seems like a 10-20 carry back with Woodhead being the smaller change of pace quick 3rd down back but you need that short yard back that will get you the tough 1-2 yards but also when teams decide to go to a prevent or dime package defenses (ala Jets) a bruiser back would break into the secondary and beat up those DB's. ...
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I agree with this. It would be nice to have a John Kuhn/Heath Evans type guy on the roster, no doubt, for the situations you mention and goal line. But it's not, IMO, the biggest weakness of this team.  That's still nickel and dime CB and pass rush.

    In the "old days" (2004 and before), you could get away with fewer good to great cover DBs. Today you're in nickel and dime situations all the time. There are really three starting CBs for all intents and purposes, so you need a lot of depth there. That's why everybody, Pats, Jets especially, keep drafting those guys even when it might look like they have enough. Look at Houston, they can't even find one good one. 

    Pittsburgh is weak back there.  They were in cover 2 and 3 a lot of the time against GBay to try and slow them down.  That's not really their style, even though they're pretty flexible with LeBeau.  Rodgers was doing the same stuff to them that Brady does whenever they play. 

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of the first three Pats picks was a CB.  Nobody should be surprised. That's just the way this game is played now.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    The Chiefs go 4-12 a season ago, maybe the worst team in the league...

    A season later they acquire legit play callers, lead the entire league in rushing and make the playoffs for the first time in forever.

    The Raiders are easily panned as the worst team in the league before the season begins, Tom Cable doesn't agree and runs the ball more than any other team in the league, now he will be hired on as a head coach somewhere and he'll be treated with a modicum of respect after overachieving with the worst collection of QB talent in the NFL.

    A balanced team is a dangerous team, many teams can pass but not all have the muscle, manpower and fortitude to run the ball.  Did all the whining by the Colts Bill Polian to the NFL competition committee make it a lot easier to pass the ball in recent years, yes, but if you want to win in the playoffs run the ball and stop the run...  

    If I'm running the ball effectively than your exceptional QB is on the sidelines watching as I run the clock out. The Patriots were a much better team when they passed by necessity instead of as a first option, that can't be disputed. The league likes passing, it sells, but don't believe the hype... stupid.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    In Response to Re: It's the passing game, stupid!:
    [QUOTE]...if you want to win in the playoffs run the ball and stop the run...  
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Evidence?  You're living in the 50s when Rocky Marciano reigned, apparently.  Here are the rushing "attacks" of the last four Super Bowl victors. 

    NYG   91 yds rushing (3.5 yds per carry)
    Pitt    58 yds (2.3 ypc)
    NOrl  51 yds (2.1 ypc)
    GBay 50 yds (3.8 ypc)

    Good luck with that 3 yds and a cloud of dust approach, it's clearly the way to go...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: It's the passing game, stupid!

    Green Bay averaged 3.8 YPC in the regular season and about the same in the playoffs, they still averaged 27 attempts per game in the playoffs.  Again balance...

    Your stats from the previous years are quite skewed, The Saints averaged 4.5 YPC in the regular season and tied for 7th in attempts per game, a very prolific and effective running game.

    Pittsburgh averaged 3.7 YPC in the season prior but were 9th overall in attempts, in the playoffs they increased their rushing attempts to 32 a game. 3 more attempts a game in the playoffs than in the regular season, this is a trend amongst all these teams you mention.

    The Giants averaged 4.6 YPG in the regular season, in the playoffs they rushed 118 attempts, that's 34 more attempts than the next closest team, I don't know where you get your stats from but mine come directly from NFL.com.

    There's your evidence, real stats from the source, not stats I reworked to fit an argument I formulated.  

    Playoff teams run the ball, regardless of how effective, why?  Because you keep opposing teams honest this way, play action only works in unison with the run game.  When it's cold a lot more can go wrong with a ball thrown in the air as opposed to a clean handoff to a bruising back. 

    That you even mention the Giants is silly, they were quite obviously a running team with the thunder and lightning running back tandem they had and they beat us playing the same smash mouth football we used to play when Antoine Smith was our horse. 

    Balance wins... running the ball makes you a better passing team.

     

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