Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Jacksonville Jagua...

    RoundPick #OverallNamePositionCollege
    188Derrick HarveyDefensive EndFlorida
    22152Quentin GrovesDefensive EndAuburn
    520155Thomas WilliamsLinebackerUSC
    524159Trae WilliamsCornerbackUSF
    76213Chauncey WashingtonRunning backUSC

    Harvey's Career Stats- Since 08'
    Career NFL statistics as of Week 17, 2010
    Tackles    88
    Sacks    8.0
    Interceptions    1
    Stats at NFL.com


    Quinton Groves- Since 08'
    Career NFL statistics as of 2010
    Tackles    83
    Sacks    2.5
    Interceptions    2
    Stats at NFL.com



    So all of you draft pundits out there, tell me BB messed up again??? These guys were supposed to help attack Brady if you remember.  They were specifically brought in to attack the QB, especially Brady if they met in the playoffs again.  At least that's what they were saying during the draft. 

    These guys were top 5 rated DE's coming out of the draft.  Look at them now.

    We have a safe pick in Solder, a big CB - Do not compare him to Butler or Wheatly because there is nothing to compare.  And a revamped RB crew that people on here always complain about being too Old.  Well guess what we have solidifed spots on our team. 


    So why no pass-rush?, because it's not guaranteed to always be a perfect pick!

    Interesting thread, huh?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and so the called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    Also, I remeber thinking damn this team is going to be amazing on D.  Such depth on their line.
     
    Seems the hype gets to all of us. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    So, what's your point? 

    Wheatley and Butler were second round picks too, where are they now? Oh, so a pass-rush isn't worth going after, but another CB is? 

    We needed a pass-rush, we didn't get one. We were a 14-2 team last season and who knows how much better we could've been had we been able to knock a few QBs down. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]Main article: 2008 NFL Draft Round Pick # Overall Name Position College 1 8 8 Derrick Harvey Defensive End Florida 2 21 52 Quentin Groves Defensive End Auburn 5 20 155 Thomas Williams Linebacker USC 5 24 159 Trae Williams Cornerback USF 7 6 213 Chauncey Washington Running back USC Harvey's Career Stats- Since 08' Career NFL statistics as of Week 17, 2010 Tackles      88 Sacks      8.0 Interceptions      1 Stats at NFL.com Quinton Groves- Since 08' Career NFL statistics as of 2010 Tackles     83 Sacks     2.5 Interceptions     2 Stats at NFL.com So all of you draft pundits out there, tell me BB messed up again??? These guys were supposed to help attack Brady if you remember.  They were specifically brought in to attack the QB, especially Brady if they met in the playoffs again.  At least that's what they were saying during the draft.  These guys were top 5 rated DE's coming out of the draft.  Look at them now. We have a safe pick in Solder, a big CB - Do not compare him to Butler or Wheatly because there is nothing to compare.  And a revamped RB crew that people on here always complain about being too Old.  Well guess what we have solidifed spots on our team.  So why no pass-rush?, because it's not guaranteed to always be a perfect pick! Interesting thread, huh?
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    Taking a pass rusher high in the draft is almost as risky as drafting a QB. You are certain to get a lemon 9 out of 10 times. Plus these guys are projects. You almost never hear of a pass rusher making an impact the 1st year. Takes them 3 at least. 

    And I don't want to hear the Green Bay linebacker's name. He ain't a pass rusher. He's a guy they use to blitz a lot in their scheme. He'd have about 2 sacks a year in a Pat's uniform. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]Main article: 2008 NFL Draft Round Pick # Overall Name Position College 1 8 8 Derrick Harvey Defensive End Florida 2 21 52 Quentin Groves Defensive End Auburn 5 20 155 Thomas Williams Linebacker USC 5 24 159 Trae Williams Cornerback USF 7 6 213 Chauncey Washington Running back USC Harvey's Career Stats- Since 08' Career NFL statistics as of Week 17, 2010 Tackles      88 Sacks      8.0 Interceptions      1 Stats at NFL.com Quinton Groves- Since 08' Career NFL statistics as of 2010 Tackles     83 Sacks     2.5 Interceptions     2 Stats at NFL.com So all of you draft pundits out there, tell me BB messed up again??? These guys were supposed to help attack Brady if you remember.  They were specifically brought in to attack the QB, especially Brady if they met in the playoffs again.  At least that's what they were saying during the draft.  These guys were top 5 rated DE's coming out of the draft.  Look at them now. We have a safe pick in Solder, a big CB - Do not compare him to Butler or Wheatly because there is nothing to compare.  And a revamped RB crew that people on here always complain about being too Old.  Well guess what we have solidifed spots on our team.  So why no pass-rush?, because it's not guaranteed to always be a perfect pick! Interesting thread, huh?
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    Don't you realize that there are dozens of people regularly posting to this board who have watched enough football games from their couches to be able to pick, unerringly, sure-fire pass rushers absolutely guaranteed to get a dozen sacks a season?   
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]So, what's your point?  Wheatley and Butler were second round picks too, where are they now? Oh, so a pass-rush isn't worth going after, but another CB is?  We needed a pass-rush, we didn't get one. We were a 14-2 team last season and who knows how much better we could've been had we been able to knock a few QBs down. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]



    What's my point? How the hell did you miss it?  BB didn't feel confident in taking a pass-rusher from this draft, and you know better then him? The point is these two guys were supposed to save the Jags front line... and it didn't.  I know Wheatly didn't work.. fine.  Solder is considered one of the safest picks in the draft... so BB took it. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    And if you even look at that entire draft from the Jags, it maybe one of the worst drafts I have ever seen. 

    You should just let BB handle the roster, and you should just watch as I do.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ender587. Show Ender587's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    First off just because someone drafted DE busts doesnt mean  you just stop drafting.  If that was the case we shouldnt draft a player from any position... why dotn we just get our entire team through FA?  If people are not allowed to have opinions that the draft SUCKED.. then why are we on this forum int he first place?  Should we hold hands and sing koom-bi-ya?

    Im tired of hearing about this.. We needed a pass rush the last 3 years and we fail to get it every year.  Guess what.. havnt won a playoff game in a while.  We had the ability and position to do so and we chose not to.  I hope we fix it in FA, but I doubt it.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    love this post, BB knows more about the prospects he selected/passed on then the naysayers on this board X10000.

    There is a reason he passed on a pass rusher, it might not be clear to us but he did what he did. All this nonsense with people complaining about this draft is getting annoying. You can't change what he did, its over, get over yourselves.

    "it is what it is" fits well here.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    Listen everyone on here realizes that Bill knows what he's doing, it's just that as a fan we're allowed to wonder what the hell he's doing/thinking. When your pass rush stinks and you have lost very important games as a result of not having one...you wonder why, when we have so many picks and traded one of our best front seven players for those picks...you don't select one.

    I could care less about Jacksonville's draft picks - although those guys have more sacks than the guys we selected - because we have selected none. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!" : Taking a pass rusher high in the draft is almost as risky as drafting a QB. You are certain to get a lemon 9 out of 10 times. Plus these guys are projects. You almost never hear of a pass rusher making an impact the 1st year. Takes them 3 at least.  And I don't want to hear the Green Bay linebacker's name. He ain't a pass rusher. He's a guy they use to blitz a lot in their scheme. He'd have about 2 sacks a year in a Pat's uniform. 
    Posted by Macrawn[/QUOTE]

    I think this is the most understated thing aout the whole "Clay Matthews" example. 

    I don't think he would be nearly as succesful here. NE just doesn't run the same type of defense as GB. I don't think Matthews would be that succesful in many systems either. He is great where he is at though. 

    He's also a total roid freak ... and I don't like obvious roid abusers on the Pats because they are liable to break down, get sick, or get suspended. I said the same thing when people whined about not having a cat like Merriman ... and look at him. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]Listen everyone on here realizes that Bill knows what he's doing, it's just that as a fan we're allowed to wonder what the hell he's doing/thinking. When your pass rush stinks and you have lost very important games as a result of not having one...you wonder why, when we have so many picks and traded one of our best front seven players for those picks...you don't select one. I could care less about Jacksonville's draft picks - although those guys have more sacks than the guys we selected - because we have selected none. 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    ok this is my entire point.  Jacksonville DID what YOU guys wanted, right? However it failed.  BB does not draft just for position, but rather for who is the best person available.  If he though there was the right guy there I am sure he would have made that decision.

    As fans you do have the right to complain if you don't like it, but do we fans really have the right to questiopn anything BB does? I mean really?

    Clearly, he felt like he made the best decisions he could for our football team.  I think he would take risks on pass-rushers if they would make us a better team, anfd I am going to assume he feels he made the team beter with the picks that he did make.  Obviously, right?
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!" : ok this is my entire point.  Jacksonville DID what YOU guys wanted, right? However it failed.  BB does not draft just for position, but rather for who is the best person available.  If he though there was the right guy there I am sure he would have made that decision. As fans you do have the right to complain if you don't like it, but do we fans really have the right to questiopn anything BB does? I mean really? Clearly, he felt like he made the best decisions he could for our football team.  I think he would take risks on pass-rushers if they would make us a better team, anfd I am going to assume he feels he made the team beter with the picks that he did make.  Obviously, right?
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    Actuallly Getzo ... with three OL FA/retirees, two CB FAs, and three RB FAs, BB drafted to need all the way down the board, except for Mallett. 

    That is not BPA when you are obviously (he does this every season) filling the holes in your day-to-day roster. 

    The spots people here talked about, OLB, WR, DE, are actually full of returning vets, and thusly are not 'needs' at all. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!" : What's my point? How the hell did you miss it?  BB didn't feel confident in taking a pass-rusher from this draft, and you know better then him? The point is these two guys were supposed to save the Jags front line... and it didn't.  I know Wheatly didn't work.. fine.  Solder is considered one of the safest picks in the draft... so BB took it. 
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    So how do we get after the QB? 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from r23. Show r23's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    BB almost never takes a OLB early in the draft, because most of them are DE that need to be converted into OLB, and that takes time in BB defense. I think he took Jermaine Cunningham last year in the second, and although he showed promise he still has a long way's to go.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    One way to get to the QB is to have outstanding DB's.

    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!" : So how do we get after the QB? 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!" : So how do we get after the QB? 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]


    Does BB concede here?  Maybe something in the works, or just maybe he believes the young team will grow.

    Again from last to 25th in defense.  They continued to grow hopefully that is the on going trend.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    I want see what the OLB we did draft can do. Also what I said about seeing a partial overhaul,in this draft, on the offensive line did kinda come true. I don't know why we got the TE from Marshall. Belichick seems to have taken players that would allow the Patriots to have a more balanced offensive and good coverage on defense. I could see Belichick cutting some payroll to make way for some key free agents. I'd like to see which free agents are available before a pound my fist into the dirt and loudly proclaim "NO PASS RUSH". I expect the D line to be healthier than it was last year. Certain players have to make strides (Fletcher. Cunningham) for this defense to be more successful.....keeping in mind we did lead the league in TO margin.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    What games last year did they lose only because of their D? They lost the 2007 superbowl bc of no pass rush? Last game against the Jets? In both games the OL was more or less dominated, while the D held their own. 

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]Listen everyone on here realizes that Bill knows what he's doing, it's just that as a fan we're allowed to wonder what the hell he's doing/thinking. When your pass rush stinks and you have lost very important games as a result of not having one...you wonder why, when we have so many picks and traded one of our best front seven players for those picks...you don't select one. I could care less about Jacksonville's draft picks - although those guys have more sacks than the guys we selected - because we have selected none. 
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]I want see what the OLB we did draft can do. Also what I said about seeing a partial overhaul,in this draft, on the offensive line did kinda come true. I don't know why we got the TE from Marshall. Belichick seems to have taken players that would allow the Patriots to have a more balanced offensive and good coverage on defense. I could see Belichick cutting some payroll to make way for some key free agents. I'd like to see which free agents are available before a pound my fist into the dirt and loudly proclaim "NO PASS RUSH". I expect the D line to be healthier than it was last year. Certain players have to make strides (Fletcher. Cunningham) for this defense to be more successful.....keeping in mind we did lead the league in TO margin.Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

    He took Lee Smith TE, for he will be replacing Crumpler after next year.  At this point he is as good if not better at receiving, but will be a blocking TE to help our new RB's get some extra yards.  The guy apparently loves toix it up" on the line and put people on the ground.

    And the guys already on D need to step it up.  I agree with that assessment.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    In Response to Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pass _Rush people!":
    [QUOTE]I want see what the OLB we did draft can do. Also what I said about seeing a partial overhaul,in this draft, on the offensive line did kinda come true. I don't know why we got the TE from Marshall. Belichick seems to have taken players that would allow the Patriots to have a more balanced offensive and good coverage on defense. I could see Belichick cutting some payroll to make way for some key free agents. I'd like to see which free agents are available before a pound my fist into the dirt and loudly proclaim "NO PASS RUSH". I expect the D line to be healthier than it was last year. Certain players have to make strides (Fletcher. Cunningham) for this defense to be more successful.....keeping in mind we did lead the league in TO margin.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]

    Cost cutting measures have already taken affect.
    Solder cancels out Light (possibly)
    Cannon cancels out Kaczur plus add G depth
    Lee cancels out Crump
    Vereen/Ridley saves us money by resigning Morris, Taylor, Faulk
    Ras-I is an upgrade if he can stay healthy, maybe let go Wilhite but that doesn't save us any money really
    Fletcher/Moore (already on roster) I think can fill in as situational rusher for TBC

    By all accounts, the above I think represents somewhere close to about $10-12M....
    We chuck some of that at Mankins, and then sign an FA with the rest. Tricky part is finding an FA on the market when it opens up...not really any quality at DE or OLB, unless maybe you go after the aging Ellis from the Jets, maybe Spears from Dallas,...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PAULICAS1975. Show PAULICAS1975's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    WELL. Lets put it this way. If BB drafted all pass rushers and no other positions. You all would be all over him for not drafting other positions we needed. Free agency is still going to happen. How do we know he hasnt talked to some players durin the pro bowl to come over to the Pats when FA starts?? Also, even if BB had drafted pass rushers. None of you would be happy cause he wouldnt select the players you wanted him to draft. So, I just think that fans put in way too much into this draft stuff. It dont matter what we do here in people will never be happy.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBBB4evr. Show TBBB4evr's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    It's funny how we go through this every year...and it seems like every year BB proves us wrong.  At first I felt bummed out about how the whole draft went down, but after thinking it over a bit I think BB may actually know what's he doing (oh yes, surprise!). 

    It seemed like BB was drafting based on the current state of the NFL.  Most likely, there's not going to be any offseason programs and training camps.  As a result it will be this class of rookies who will suffer the most in terms of adapting to their new teams and learning the new schemes.  As a result MOST of these rookies will less likely to have any substanial impact.  If you look at most of the Pats picks, they are relatively safe picks and are meant mainly for depth rather than for improvement purposes.  Yes, there is a need to improve the pass rush, but to expect a rookie to come in one day 1 without any training  to solve the pass rush problem is a joke.  That is also why the trade for New Orleans #1 pick next year is a steal, and most likely better than this year year's pick, even if the pick ends up to be the #32 pick.  Again, all of this is dependant on the NFL labor negotiations.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Coolguy55220. Show Coolguy55220's posts

    Re: Jacksonville Jaguars and the so called "getting best Pass-Rushers in Draft". 2008, for all you "we need Pa...

    People still dont understand this. Bill's system is based on pressure coming from the whole defense, not 1 guy because 1 guy can always be shut down when u need him. Everyone just falls for this position, it doesnt work that way. I am sure bill had 1 or 2 guys that he loves that could also do other things besides rushing the passer, and they didnt fall to where they needed to. I heard couple of trade ups didnt work out, but either case, he didnt see what he wanted to see when he wanted to see it. Suck it up, and move on. This pass rush pass rush pass rush thing is getting annoying. Seems like all you guys feel like you should be running the patriots instead of a hall of fame coach.
     
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