Jamele Hill = Racist

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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    Maybe the most obvious thing hasn't been stated, but how many time have we heard blacks blame the white man for being held down, or being kept from a promotion? How many times have we heard that about women of any race? The reality is that it's not a race thing at all. It's most likely a person in a postition trying to keep someone else who may be better qualified down. Anyone who is above the bottom of the ladder, even just a few steps, is a target. Some people who don't have the skill to retain a job may do whatever they can to keep it, even if it's by crapping on someone under them. How many of you have had a poor evaluation done by someone above you, & you know that there were untruths in that evaluation? Did you ever think that you might threaten their job security with a glowing evaluation? How many people wont speak out because they fear they will be fired? Think about what I said. It's not blacks, or women, being suppressed, it's all of us. Think about your own situation. Is there someone you work with who makes you scratch your head because you don't know why they still have a job? Are they holding a position ahead of you where you work? In the end it's up to the individual to improve their situation. Blaming others is weak.
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]All right let me run in here and sets somethings straight.  I've been reading these forums for awhile now, but I never comment because well...I post on others and I'm lazy.  Draft info is always great though.  However, this sounds like the typical conversations from a bunch of white guys who know nothing about black people at all.  Its completely obvious from the way in which you're talking.  You make the assumption that black people actually have some affinity for the Sharptons and you keep referring to Cosby and others who talk down to black people as being some symbol of what needs to be said.  Essentially they are black mouthpieces that espouse the opinions of many whtie Americans.  Let this be said, Bill Cosby is held with disdain by African-Americans because he at the peak of his popularity wanted nothing to do with the issues of black Americans.  Then, he goes on TV and blasts them, meanwhile he never put anything in the context of society at large.  He is no representative of African-Americans and has never wanted to be.  Sharpton and Jackson have done much good in black communities as has Louis Farrakhan but the extent to which they are somehow "ringleaders" of the African-American community are greatly exaggerated...most view them as corrupt and advantageous.  Do all really have any black friends?  Educated black friends? I'll get back to that debate but first off let's start with the definitiona of racism.  " a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others"     OR " hatred or intolerance of another race or other races" Do you know why black people hate when someone mentions them using the "race card?"  You've effectively handicapped them.  Because now whenever they allude to the fact that race has an affect on something (which it usually does) someone throws out the "race card" phrase and then your entire point can be ignored that injecting race.  It's done all the time to ignore what someone is actually saying.  People hate to mention race in this country despite the fact that every measurable statistic shows that race has a large affect in everything from treatment from police to hiring practices.  Now, BBReign is obviously a guy who hates when people talks about race.  He posts as i he's a tough guy and I can see him as the type who would say "I don't care what your color is you can be black, red or green."  These people are the worst ones to discuss race with because they often don't realize their subconscious opinions and views that come about based on their race or experiences with different races.  I don't think you're a bad guy, but you like many BADLY misuse race and the term racist.  Hill doesn't think African-Americans are better than whites or anything like that.  She doesn't believe white are evil, etc.  Yet, you call her a racist because she says she believes that in order to succeed that African-Americans have to be twice as good?  THAT IS NOT RACIST.  Do you even know what the word means?  It's like you took what she said personally as an indictment on you because as many people do who are of the "majority race"...they take an indictment of American society as an indictment on them personally.  I find that disappointing. What she said is reverberated in african-american barbershops all over the country.  The obstacles you have to overcome to be on a level playing field are on average greater.  Are their problems with the African-American community? Yes, there are and I'd be the first one to point them out.  But a lot of them are a result of the circumstances of the places they live.  Those jobs that left their areas never came back after the 70s....right when drugs hit...but that's anther subject.  The fact is you have to be of exceptional character to make it to a level-playing field.  And even then you will not have the same connects or structure to back you up.  But even further, if any of you ever took a sociology course it is explicity show and supported by facts and numbers that women and men who do the same job are not paid the same...even if their credentials are the same.  This holds true between races as well.  The worst paid person is the African-American woman (ironically they get college degrees much more so than us men do...another problem we have to fix internally).  My parents came from West Africa and were college-educated there...and were more than competent.  They educated at a young age about how office politics work.  I grew up with and still have an immensely diverse groups of friends.  My parents and their parents love each other.  It didn't stop them from telling me at a young age..."Look if John gets an B+ then you need to get an A+...once you both get into the office..to move up faster than him or even at the same rate you're going to have to be undeniably better."  Every black kid is taught as a child.  There are numerous reasons...one of them is actual a reverse effect of affirmative action...people question whether or not you really deserved to sit there in the first place...I didn't mark my race when I applied to college (though I don't fault anyone who did) just for the sake of my own ego because of this.  Also, the belief that AA...QBs are given shorter leashes is also widely held amongst many people those of color and those whom are not.  This varies depending on the ownership. The point is, what she said doesn't make her racist.  It doesn't even come close to it.  Is it race-baiting?  No, because it's merely an affirmation of what people of color all across this country feel...who did not grow up affluent or in upper middle class.  There are REAL black racists just like there are of any other race to worry about.  Ms. Hill (whose writing I don't enjoy...I mean this lady called Tim Tebow..Muhammad Ali) is not one of them.  P.S.  The Boondocks draws criticism because some don't understand it's satire and social commentary.  It speaks to the behavior of black americans as much as it speaks about society in general.  I don't always agree with him, but I like a lot of what he does.  Huey..is the intellectual side of the community and his brother respects the raw aspects that sometimes are uncomfortable to talk about.  The fact that people misunderstand his underlying meanings and points such as when Riley attacks Santa Claus because he never delivered gifts to th hood are what make the show great.  MLK episode was powerful...but there's no way for a cultural movement like that to happen ever again.
    Posted by NonChalant1[/QUOTE]
    I did not realize that black quarterbacks need to throw two touchdowns for every one a white quarterback throws (aside, where does Sanchez or Jim Plunket fit in to this discussion - do they have to throw 1.5 TDs?). No wonder there are so few black quarterbacks when the playing field is so unfair. This was an attempt at satire; my point, pro sports is not the field of endevor in which to try to prove that blacks face systemic biases, prejudice or racism.
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist : I did not realize that black quarterbacks need to throw two touchdowns for every one a white quarterback throws (aside, where does Sanchez or Jim Plunket fit in to this discussion - do they have to throw 1.5 TDs?). No wonder there are so few black quarterbacks when the playing field is so unfair. This was an attempt at satire; my point, pro sports is not the field of endevor in which to try to prove that blacks face systemic biases, prejudice or racism.
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]
    Is that right?  Remember a guy named Jackie Robinson?  Or the hate Jack Johnson got?  My point was simple the media is tougher on African-Americans in general and the sports media is of no exception.  Why was there such a big deal when black QBs starting coming up?  Because the stigma used to be that "he wasn't smart enough."  What about bananas thrown at African players in Europe.  Come on...again...people need to man up and discuss these things or we get nowhere.  I liked your joke tho, but only because sports are probably the least racist institution overall.  There is a meritocracy if I ever saw one for the most part.
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]I guess the easiest way to explain my own take on this topic is that I have friends who happpen to be white, black, asian and hispanic (I don't know anyone who describes their friends as hispanic if I say flaco is a friend of mine people know).  Terms like light skinned and dark skinned are used a lot to differentiate some people with the same names etc. They are simply friends and nothing more - I think being friends is enough.  If we spent all day talking about race we wouldn't be friends long. We embrace each other as friends for who we are. Each of us has family members or associates who have negative raced based perceptions which preclude them friom being real friends. We actually revel in our differences such as the ethnic foods we share and other such things. My ancestors were Irish and had plenty of their own issues making it through the day. If someone can't stomach my friends than they can't be my friend either. I try and avoid reading stories that group me because of my skin color into a group that I would never be friends with. I have all I can do with making ends meet to make a decent life for my family never mind atonng for something I was never involved in nor would I have been had I been alive at that time.
    Posted by gridlocked[/QUOTE]Dude, I'm not advocating anyone on here atoning for anything.  I jsut wanted people to be conscious and understand the cntext of situations and not operate off their preconceived notions that obviously involve little empirical research.  My city was naturally diverse and naturally my friends came in all complexions, but I don't believe in diversity just for the sake of diversity.  It's not necessary....hang out with who you like, but as long as one can understand and respects other then we'll all be better off.  The only thing you should be working on besides keeping yourself afloat, which I and anyone else would support, is equality of opportunity.  I don't think there are many things more American than that.  My favorite quote:  "In the end we will not remember the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." -MLK

    But guys...I think we should all move on.  This isn't the place for it...I'd rather talk about the team I grew up loving back when no one outside of New England cared about us at all.

     
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist : Who is denying it? Are you just bored here playing contrarian, or are you serious?
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]HEY WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO with this?
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist : Is that right?  Remember a guy named Jackie Robinson?  Or the hate Jack Johnson got?  My point was simple the media is tougher on African-Americans in general and the sports media is of no exception.  Why was there such a big deal when black QBs starting coming up?  Because the stigma used to be that "he wasn't smart enough."  What about bananas thrown at African players in Europe.  Come on...again...people need to man up and discuss these things or we get nowhere.  I liked your joke tho, but only because sports are probably the least racist institution overall.  There is a meritocracy if I ever saw one for the most part.
    Posted by NonChalant1[/QUOTE]

    The major professional leagues in baseball, football, even basketball used to exclude blacks, now they do not. So, clearly there is no longer a systemic bias in these leagues' hiring practices. And, since the rules are the same for all participants, the outcomes are not biased either.  Jackie Robinson is a hero to most Americans, while in 1989 Public Enemy's Fight the Power included this rap --  "Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps; Sample a look back you look and find; Nothing but rednecks for 400 years if you check." Now that's biased, and coming from the recently voted #1 rap group of all time.
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist : McNabb when he had TO was definitely top 3.  Only Brady ever did more with less receivers for an extended period of time.  In 2004 Brady, Manning and McNabb were the best in the league.  No not Brett. With that said, about selling their own people into slavery thing that the guy mentioned.  Black people do talk about it, but at the same time slavery in Africa did not equal slavery in the West.  Slaves in Africa were treated much more humanely.  I doubt it would've made a difference had they known what those people would be subjected too, but they didn't know to what extent it would be.  Further, often times they were forced to sell people basically at gun point and more were just straight up stolen.  But let's move forward...I don't believe that equality was ever promised in this country...but equality of opportunity was.  The media as a whole is tougher on African-Americans (have any of you taken communications or political science courses...I mean this is hard data...with the people who did it later admitting and not realizing their inherent bias or often some reasoned it is what the people wanted to see on the news...I can recommend books).  So the 2Live Stews do not compensate for the media as a whole and how issues are framed.  BTW, no one likes the bigger one of the two...he's an idiot. 
    Posted by NonChalant1[/QUOTE]
    One year with TO. I like McNabb personally. Favre has been a better quarterback.
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist : Rob, You are obviously an intelligent educated human.  Yet, you are ignorant of the fact that different races have different average attributes.  Let's take a simple case like the concrete measureable variable height (lets not debase ourselves with the whole scchlong size thing).  Yes or no is the average average African American taller than the average Asian American?  Pretty simple stuff wouldn't you say.  There are many physical and mental attributes that can be measured, and you will always find different races having different proclivities.  I know you know this to be true.  I was raised by a single mother and spent much of my childhood in a place called Park Home in Newport RI.  It was public housing.  While I am not a great man, I did put myself through university and have travelled the world on various ventures including some major philanthropic pursuits.  I dare say that not many of the kids I grew up with (i.e. raised in the same environment) achieved the level of success that I have.  Why is that? I express my opinions pretty much every where I go.  If you are saying that I'm a coward hiding behind a computer screan, I'd be happy to meet you for coffee or maybe a 40oz bottle of brew, and I'm sure we could have an educated civil discussion about our views. You never answered my question about Boener. 
    Posted by knightsailor[/QUOTE]

    you just prejudged and stereotyped rob by asking if he wanted a 40oz... why??  maybe he prefers a fine cabernet sauvingnant...
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]Acknowledging the existance of race and its significance in our culture doesn't make one a racist.  In fact, ignoring the significance of race in our culture might be the most insidious form of racism there is.
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    Now that's putting it into perspective.
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

         Here are some cold, hard football fact, served up to race card playing Jemele Hill: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/5_3496_Pigskin_Detention%3A_maybe%2C_Jemele%2C_they%27re_just_sh%2Atty_QBs.html

         LOL!!!
     
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    Re: Jamele Hill = Racist

    In Response to Re: Jamele Hill = Racist:
    [QUOTE]     Here are some cold, hard football fact, served up to race card playing Jemele Hill: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/5_3496_Pigskin_Detention%3A_maybe%2C_Jemele%2C_they%27re_just_sh%2Atty_QBs.html      LOL!!!
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

            I enjoyed that article  so much summed up it all and  she could never debate that!
     
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