Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

         Here is a Mike Reiss article, in which DE/OLB Chandler Jones states that he was almost positive that the Jets were going to take him at #16. Why? Because his agent informed him that the Jets had called, and said that he (Jones) was going to be their pick. But, instead, they chose to go in another direction, and selected DE Quinton Coples.

         In drafting Coples, the Jets also passed on DE Melvin Ingram (chosen 18th overall by San Diego), perhaps the best pass-rusher available...and college sacker/turnover creater Whitney Mercilus (chosen 26th overall by Houston): http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4721737/chandler-jones-thought-hed-be-a-jet

         Whether the Jets will regret this decision remains to be seen.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Only time will tell. Chandler Jones played right in the Jests backyard though, so you would think they had more than enuff info on him.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    no way to know Pat. You're a fan of judging a draft right after it happens, I'm a fan of judging the results on the field. Grading a draft right after it happens is  a ridiclous waste of time, though I understand why those media hacks who make their living grading people out have to do it. We'll know in a few years and probably not much sooner. 

    The Jets are like the Pats in that they don't cater to the groupthink about what to do in draft situations. Both teams have had quite a bit of success with their draft styles in recent years despite some flubs.



     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    why ask a post who will be better?....the winner will be the patriot.  homer in full effect
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    [QUOTE]no way to know Pat. You're a fan of judging a draft right after it happens, I'm a fan of judging the results on the field. Grading a draft right after it happens is  a ridiclous waste of time, though I understand why those media hacks who make their living grading people out have to do it. We'll know in a few years and probably not much sooner.  The Jets are like the Pats in that they don't cater to the groupthink about what to do in draft situations. Both teams have had quite a bit of success with their draft styles in recent years despite some flubs.
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

         Of course no one will know the answer to this question until these players start playing ball next year. So...according to you, should we all shut up, and wait and see how things turn out? BORING!!

         Which of these four pass-rushing hopefuls will be best is an interesting question, to help pine away the days between the draft, and the start of training camp. Each of these four have their distinct advantages and disadvantages:

    1.) DE Quinton Coples, N.Y. Jets: Huge DE with outstanding wing-span, standing at 6'6", and weighing in at around 285 lbs.. ProFootball Weekly summarizes him as follows: "A top-ten physical talent who lacks the heart, desire, and glass-eating makeup desired in the trenches, and must rachet up the intensity if he wants to play against the big boys in the pros. Has natural core power and flexibility reminiscent of Oakland Raiders' DT Richard Seymour and could be a perennial Pro Bowl performer at multiple positions, and excel in multiple schemes, if he wants to. Has bust potential."
         This from Mel Kiper:  

    2. Quinton Coples 6-6 283 North Carolina (S. 4.73) R. 9.3

    Background: High School – Coples was a prep All-American coming out of Kinston, NC. He had 63 tackles and seven sacks in his final high school season. Prep – Coples spent one year at Hargrave Military Academy where he led the team with eight quarterback sacks. Freshman – Coples played in 12 games, all as a backup, as a true freshman with the Tar Heels in 2008 and recorded eight stops on the year, including 3.5 for loss and 1.5 sacks. He also recovered one loose ball as a rookie. He had a tackle for loss and the fumble recovery at Maryland and he recorded one TFL at Miami. Sophomore – Coples was part of the rotation at defensive end for the 2009 season and he was credited with 22 total stops as a sophomore. 6.5 of those went for losses, including five sacks, and he added three QB hurries to his stat total. He had two tackles, a sack, and an additional pressure vs. Miami and he tallied 2.5 tackles for loss and a pair of sacks as part of a five-tackle performance at Connecticut. Junior – Coples moved inside to defensive tackle for his junior season and he earned first team All-ACC honors on the strength of 59 total tackles, 15.5 stops for loss, 10 sacks, 12 QB pressures, two forced fumbles, and two pass knockdowns. Three of his six tackles in the opener vs. LSU went for loss; he had four TFLs and three sacks as part of a nine-tackle day at Rutgers; he was credited with 11 tackles, including three behind the line of scrimmage and 1.5 sacks, at Virginia; and he had six tackles, 1.5 sacks, two hurries, and a forced fumble in the Music City Bowl win over Tennessee. Senior – This past season, Coples moved back outside to defensive end and earned his second straight All-ACC nod. He led the team with 15.5 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks as part of a 55-tackle senior campaign, adding seven QB pressures, three forced fumbles, one fumble recovery, and two pass deflections. He had six stops, including 2.5 for loss and a sack, vs. Miami; he was in on eight tackles, with 2.5 of them coming in the backfield (1 sack), and he had a forced fumble at Virginia Tech; he was all over the field in the win over Duke, making six tackles, including three for loss and two sacks, forcing a fumble, and recovering one loose ball; and he had two TFLs as part of a four-tackle day in the Independence Bowl vs. Missouri. Analysis: Coples is a super-talented kid who has the height, the quickness, and the wingspan you covet in a big-time pass rusher. He was relatively quiet early on in the year before turning it on in his final six games to salvage what had been an early season decline in his rating. 10 of his tackles for loss and five of his sacks came between mid-October and late November. Despite his late-season push, Coples didn’t quite secure that elite grade that I thought was possible.Early on this past season he wasn’t finishing and his technique wasn’t quite as good. He played a little high and did a little too much hand fighting. Coples is one of those guys, though, who can be as good as he wants. He doesn’t have Julius Peppers-type ability, despite the comparisons he’s drawing to the former UNC standout. Coples can still be an excellent defensive end if he focuses on the task at hand and maximizes all of his impressive natural ability. Boom or bust type based on the inconsistencices from this past season. *Combine Notes: Ran a 4.72, did 25 reps, and had a 31 1/2" vertical jump.



    2.) DE Chandler Jones, New England Patriots: 
    Like Coples, has great size (6'5 1/2", 265 lbs..), and an incredible wing-span. Here's PFW's take on him: "Highly athletic, vine-armed, havoc wreaking pass-rusher with rare dimensions, and a developing frame to fill out and become a pass-rushing force. Scouts have compared him to Calais Campbell, yet he offers even more intriguing versatility, with potential to disrupt from either side, and grow into a stout anchor."
         Mel Kiper:

    3. Chandler Jones 6-5½ 265 Syracuse (S. 4.85) R. 9.1

    Background: High School
    – Jones was an all-metro pick at Union-Endicott HS in New York after a senior season that saw him record 75 tackles, seven sacks, two forced fumbles, and three fumble recoveries on defense. Offensively, he led the team with a 17.4-yard average per reception playing tight end. Redshirt Freshman – Jones played in all 12 games for the Orange as a rookie in 2009, starting eight times, and he posted 52 total tackles, including 10 for loss and 1.5 sacks. He had four tackles, with one going for negative yardage, against Minnesota; he had two tackles and a sack in the Northwestern game; and he had eight stops vs. Pittsburgh and a career-high 10 at Louisville. Sophomore – Jones was a starter in all 13 games for Syracuse in 2010 and he had 9.5 tackles for loss and four quarterback sacks as part of a 57-tackle campaign. He also forced three fumbles and recovered one loose ball. He had seven tackles, a pair of sacks, and two forced fumbles vs. Maine; he had two sacks and a pass deflection as part of an eight-tackle performance at West Virginia; and two of his three tackles in the Louisville game were sacks. Junior – This past season, Jones played in just seven games, missing a significant portion of the season due to a knee injury, yet he was still named to the All-Big East First Team. He tallied 38 stops as a junior, with 7.5 going for loss and 4.5 of those being sacks. He also intercepted a pass and forced two fumbles in 2011. He had four tackles, including two TFLs, and the interception at Pittsburgh; he forced a pair of fumbles to go with six tackles and a sack vs. UConn; and he had six tackles, two sacks, and a pass deflection against West Virginia. Analysis: Since coming back from the knee injury that sidelined him for a large portion of 2011, Jones really made his presence felt with impressive efforts down the stretch. He was a factor against both the pass and the run for Syracuse. He uses his hands well to get off of blocks and does a good job locating the football. Jones is an incredible physical specimen, with the height, tremendously long arms, and pass rush ability you look for. His brother, Arthur, was drafted (5th round in 2010) a few years ago by the Baltimore Ravens, so there is a family

    history of NFL success. Chandler Jones was a real impact player in the Big East during his career and also brings a great attitude and approach to the football team. Borderline late first or early-mid second rounder. Remember, he has the ability to also interest 3-4 teams as an OLB. Jones is one heck of a football player, ascending up the draft board further and further in the weeks and days leading up to the draft. After all is said and done, it wouldn't surprise me is he were selected in the later stages of round one. *Combine Note: Ran a 4.85, did 22 reps, and had a 35" vertical jump.


        
    3.) DE Melvin Ingram, San Diego Chargers: Rated by many as the top pass-rushing prospect in this draft, but lacking the size and wing-span of Coples and Jones. PFW's take: "A unique athlete scattered across multiple positions on NFL draft boards, with the potential to line up on the edge or inside, where much of his production comes. Can even warrant looks as a rush or ILB, possessing ideal size for a 3-4 front. Emerged as a playmaking force as a senior, and will be best schemed rushing the passer. Versatility should drive up his value for a creative defensive coordinator. But, short arms and immaturity issues also could diminish his draft status - especially for teams projecting him to a position that he did not play in college."
         Kiper:

    1. Melvin Ingram 6-1½ 265 South Carolina (S. 4.70) R. 9.3

    Background: High School
    – Ingram came out of the Hamlet, NC prep ranks having made 87 tackles, including 2.5 QB sacks, as a senior at Richmond County HS. He chose South Carolina over both North Carolina and North Carolina State. Freshman – Ingram played in 12 games as a backup linebacker as a true freshman in 2007, and he was credited with 15 tackles and a sack as a rookie. He also returned five kickoffs for an 18-yard average. He had five tackles vs. Kentucky and he logged the sack in the Vanderbilt game. 3rd Year Sophomore – Ingram missed the 2008 season after breaking his foot in the spring and redshirted, so he returned to action as a 3rd year sophomore in 2009 and he played in all 13 games, including one as a starter. He made 18 stops on the year, with 3.5 going for loss and 1.5 of those being a sack. He also tallied one QB pressure and one pass knockdown. His best effort as a sophomore was a five-tackle, one-TFL performance against Vanderbilt. His first career start came at defensive end vs. Florida, and he had three tackles and half a sack against the Gators. Junior – Ingram was again a backup for most of the 2010 campaign, starting just once in 14 appearances. As a junior, he recorded 28 tackles, 11 stops for loss, a team-leading nine sacks, one pass breakup, one forced fumble, and one QB pressure. He had four tackles, 1.5 TFLs, a sack, and one QB hurry vs. Kentucky; he had 2.5 tackles for loss and a pair of sacks among his four tackles in the Alabama game; and he forced a fumble on a sack and had two total tackles vs. Troy. Senior- This past season, Ingram started 12 times in 13 games played and he earned first team All-SEC accolades on the strength of 48 total tackles, 15 tackles for loss, 10 sacks, two interceptions, two pass breakups, six QB hurries, and two fumble recoveries. He also scored three total touchdowns on the year. His best games as a senior came against Georgia (1 tackle, fumble recovery for TD, 68-yard TD on fake punt), vs. Vanderbilt (4 tackles, 3 TFLs, 2 sacks, PBU, fumble recovery for TD), vs. Auburn (11 tackles, 4.5 TFLs, 3.5 sacks, 2 QBHs), and against Clemson (5 tackles, 2 sacks, QBH). Analysis: Ingram really made his presence felt in 2011 in a variety of ways. He is a remarkable athlete with a great spin move off the line. He was also a factor at times at defensive tackle—even though he doesn’t have the size to play there in the NFL—and he has the athleticism to project to outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense, so this kid offers a lot of versatility. Ingram is a high-motor guy with a ton of big play potential, be it as a 4-3 defensive end or on his feet as a 3-4 outside linebacker. He closes like cat from the outside, has the strength to outmuscle the OT he’s working against, and is a nightmare to handle in one on one situations with his superior athletic ability. Quality prospect wth dual versatility - *Combine Note: Ran a 4.66, did 28 reps, and had a 34" vertical jump.


    4.) Whitney Mercilus, Houston Texans: A junior entry, who led the colliegiate ranks in sacks and forced fumbles. From PFW: "From a developmental standpoint, could have used another year of seasoning, but leapt into the draft while on his production-fueled ascent in order to support his immigrant parents. Very raw, straight-linish speed/effort pass rusher who might have to be used in a specialty role initially, until ready to handle 3-down responsibility. Could be over-drafted."
         Kiper:

    Whitney Mercilus 6-3½ 262 Illinois (S. 4.64) R. 9.1

    Background: High School
    – Mercilus hails from Akron, OH where he was an all-district selection after a seniorcampaign that saw him make 36 tackles, including six for loss and two sacks. He also recovered four fumbles, returning one for a touchdown, and he had 24 receptions on offense for 417 yards and eight touchdowns. Redshirt Freshman – Mercilus’ first season on the field for the Illini came in 2009 and he appeared in 11 games. He made eight total tackles on the year, with 3.5 going for loss, and one of those being a quarterback sack. He had half a sack each against Michigan and at Minnesota and he had 1.5 TFLs in the Northwestern game. Sophomore – Mercilus started twice in 2010 and appeared in all 13 games, finishing with 16 tackles, three stops for loss, one sack, two QB pressures, two forced fumbles, and a pass deflection. Two of his three tackles in the Southern Illinois game came in the backfield, including one sack, and he added a forced fumble, one QB hurry, and a pass knockdown in that one; and he closed out the year with two tackles, one TFL, and a forced fumble in the Texas Bowl win over Baylor. Junior – This past season, Mercilus exploded onto the national scene, winning the Ted Hendricks Award as the nation’s top defensive end. He was a consensus first team All-American after leading the nation with 16 quarterback sacks and nine forced fumbles. For the year, he tallied 57 total stops, 22.5 tackles for loss, six QB pressures, and one fumble recovery. He opened the year with three tackles, two TFLs, and a sack against Arkansas State; he had two sacks, a forced fumble, and a QB hurry as part of a five-tackle effort vs. Arizona State; four of his five stops in the Indiana game went for lost yardage, including three sacks, and he forced two fumbles vs. the Hoosiers; he had a career-high nine total tackles (2.5 TFLs, 1.5 sacks) and a forced fumble against Ohio State; and he closed out the year with five tackles, three tackles for loss, and 1.5 sacks in the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl vs. UCLA. Analysis: When you looked at the Illinois defense prior to the 2011 season, Mercilus probably wasn’t considered one of the top 5 players on that side of the ball. He hadn’t produced much in his first two seasons in uniform for the Illini and he was definitely off of the radar. However, this year he became one of the most disruptive and dominant defensive ends in the nation. He wreaked havoc in the backfield, not just with tackles for loss and sacks, but he did an outstanding job of dislodging the football. Although he doesn’t have rare explosiveness, he has a fairly good takeoff, getting out of the blocks quickly and beating the offensive tackle out of his stance. Mercilus also has decent functional strength. His issue will be his consistency versus the run. Right now, he’s a little one-dimensional, and as a one-year wonder at the college level, Mercilus carries with him a little danger when it comes to drafting based on just one year of production. He certainly has the athleticism you look for and he can play on his feet as a 3-4 outside linebacker if necessary. I just wish he had a fuller body of work coming into the draft. Even so, you have to be excited for the young man. He came into the season with only 2 prior starts and just 2 career sacks, yet he’s now regarded as a probable first round draft choice...quite an accomplishment. *Combine Note: Ran a 4.63, did 27 reps, and had a 32" vertical jump

           

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Of course the Jets screwed up. It's what they do.  Coples has intangible flaws. Any players that has inconsistency issues at the NCAA level is in for a rude awakening at the NFL level.

    BB is thrilled to have the guy he wanted.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    The question is, where are they going to play this guy? He's too big to play outside linebacker in their 34, so he'll have to play defensive end in their 34 front. I can't imagine a guy with no heart doing too well taking on the multitude of blockers he'll face - add in the fact that he won't be getting fancy stats or fan fare.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stommpper. Show Stommpper's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    If I may interject an after thought?

    This may sound somewhat unusual but to answer you question, its not who the. "actual pick or person is drafted", but whats done with the player after joining the team.

    So many talented players, the actual best of the best are picked but never reach not just full, but any potential at all in the NFL.

    WHY?

    My opinion is, due to coaching. These kids need to be groomed not just by the coach but to a point of psychology, look, they already have the talent, the skills, the physical prowess to succe
    ed, but yet so many fail.

    Yes there are many reasons why they fail, but a coaching staff is the MAJOR ingredient for the success to be built into these young men.

    Thankfully, as we will see after Bill B retires, the coach must grasp all knowledge available in order for these rookies to grow and prosper in the NFL.

    The Jets with their, "Hey everyones a Super Star Attitude", will continue to falter and implode. With coach Ryan trying to be the stud and then all the players trying to follow suit is the quintessential downfall of the Jets team.

    Bill B tries to function as a unit and therefore the total team mentality.Cool
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    [QUOTE]The question is, where are they going to play this guy? He's too big to play outside linebacker in their 34, so he'll have to play defensive end in their 34 front. I can't imagine a guy with no heart doing too well taking on the multitude of blockers he'll face - add in the fact that he won't be getting fancy stats or fan fare.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

         Good point. Being a 3-4 DE requires discipline, and doing a lot of thankless dirty work. Though Coples is perhaps fast enough to play 3-4 rush OLB (4.73 40 time), does he have the discipline and the will to learn a new position? Being too big doesn't appear to be a such a detriment. Remember how the 6'7" Mario Williams seemed to be making headway as a 3-4 OLB last year in Houston, before going down with a season ending injury? 

         Melvin Ingram seemed to be the best 3-4 fit, for what the Jets like to do. Perhaps it's time for the Jets to consider playing a 4-3? That way, Coples can remain at his best position, as a 4-3 DE. If they wish to move him inside as a 4-3 DT, he'll have to add some weight.
     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    The argument would seem to be if the Jets can get the complete package out of Coples as far as intensity and drive... if his head is in the game and he is playing with a 'high motor' he would appear to be the slightly better prospect than Jones who is just a bit smaller and slower.... but also a 'safer' pick to not be a bust.

    Could be great or very bad for NY, while it will not likely be anything but good-very good for the Pats.

    And Ingram was the guy they shoulda picked anyhow to be an OLB in the 3-4. I wonder if he fell to the 20-23 range if Bill would have taken him over Jones? Jones is that Elephany guy right now, but if he gained 20lbs he could be an 3-4 DE or if he lost 10 lbs he could be a 3-4 OLB. I don't think Coples would ever have transitioned to OLB.
     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Yeah I just think the boom or bust label applies more to Coples than Jones since Coples seems to be the bigger/faster guy but didn't bring it in college consistently the way Jones did.

    If they are talking about these two guys who weigh 265-285 as the only real DE's in the draft, they must have been talking about them as 4-3 DE's, b/c you'd think they currently lack the 290-310 bulk Bill and Rex prefer for their 3-4 DE's.

    Thats why passing on guys like Reyes, Still and Worthy in the 2nd rd, who could easily have filled the Mike Wright and Jarvis Green roles, and likely even the Ty Warren role from recent years, to a take a safety you could grabbed 3 rounds, later is so dumb.
     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from munzy. Show munzy's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Couples will be the second coming of vernon ghoulston. That's just how the jests roll.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

         Here's an interesting article on Patriots' DE, Chandler Jones...which was authored only a couple of days prior to the 2012 NFL Draft:

    NFL Draft 2012: The Curious Case Of Chandler Jones' Draft Stock

    It was a little over six months ago when West Virginia football fans were personal witnesses to the possible greatness of NFL defensive end prospect Chandler Jones. In a 49-23 loss at the hands of the Syracuse Orange at a nearly-packed Carrier Dome, Jones returned to the field after missing the previous six games because of a lower-body injury to tally six solo tackles, including two critical sacks of WVU's junior quarterback Geno Smith, in dominating performance.


    Related: Mocking The Draft On Jones' Rapid Rise

    At the time, I remember sitting in the press box thinking, "Chalk that up as a solid showcase of talent that will look outstanding on NFL Draft scouting video." The performance was basically flawless, as Jones was able to, by himself, shutdown a late-first half, Mountaineers drive by sacking Smith on consecutive plays -- the second being more impressive than the first. And then, in the second half, Jones used all of his body length and strength to sniff out a first-down, screen pass to WVU freshman running back Dustin Garrison, who could have ran 20-plus yards but, instead, was tackled after just four.

    The performance was so good, I wrote a post-game piece on it, somebody made a YouTube video of it and the rest of the Syracuse football season couldn't live up to it.

    In the end, it could be argued, that performance is what has vaulted the 6-foot-5, 265-pound defensive end from a third-round projection to now a possible top-15 selection come Thursday's prime-time event in Times Square.

    And while the rest of the NFL Draft world falls in love with Jones, who is brothers with Arthur, a defensive end for the Baltimore Ravens, and Jon, who's the youngest UFC title holder in history, the Syracuse football world is wondering: "How is our guy, who's supposed to be a pass-rushing defensive end, going in the first round when he tallied 10 sacks in 32 collegiate games and had a history of health problems playing for us?"

    Now, don't get me wrong, nobody wearing Orange is rooting against Jones, but its hard for a fan base to grasp such a projection.

    Really, what changed? Was he that impressive in workouts? Interviews? How much does his brothers' success/backing have to do with this? WHY WASN'T HE THIS GOOD FOR US?!?!?

    It turns out, Syracuse fans were, again, part of a bad draw because NFL draft gurus and front-office brass see Jones on tape and see a guy with great football character that can turn his raw talent into something special.

    "The No. 9 player on my board is Chandler Jones, a defensive end from Syracuse," said NFL Network's Draft expert Mike Mayock Monday on The Dan Patrick Show. "So, when teams tell me he's too high, well, I am going to keep him there, because I believe in him there, because I did the work, I watched the tape."

    Since Jones' decision to go pro, which came back in December, SB Nation New York has been tracking his draft projections, here's how its played out.

    Now, I've followed the NFL Draft for a while, but I don't follow it closely enough to remember a prospect rising as fast as Jones. What's even more interesting, Jones is doing so basically by himself, because the recent (non) clout of the Syracuse football program isn't helping his case. I guess, that's why Jones' rise is so intriguing.

    At Syracuse, he was the best player in a "small pond" that hasn't produced a big NFL Draft fish since 2002, when defensive end Dwight Freeney was picked in the first round, No. 11 overall, by the Indianapolis Colts.

    From the get-go, Freeney was a no-brainier as he has wreaked havoc on collegiate and professional offensive linemen for about 14 years now. The case with Jones, however, isn't the same. In fact, Jones' wreaking havoc-like play only stems from that West Virginia game about six months ago.

    Of course, over the course of his three seasons at Syracuse, there were other glimpses of potential, but nothing to the extent of what Freeney did in his two seasons at Syracuse -- 17.5 sacks in '01-02 and a school-record 34 sacks overall -- and what Jones did on that day against the Mountaineers.

    Yet, here we all are, six months later, and Jones is getting a draft grade near as good as Freeney, but nobody -- at least in the Syracuse area -- is going to buy into that type of hype. Again, nobody is doubting Jones' potential, because nobody was against him entering the NFL Draft, but in the same aspect nobody who is close to or covers the Syracuse football program (cough, cough -- me) is buying him as a first-round talent. At least, not yet.

    But that's the beauty of the NFL Draft, and why football fans -- college or pro -- love it so much. Not only are NFL franchises planning their futures in front of everyone's eyes, but people are fulfilling childhood dreams by making a living (or millions of dollars) playing a game. And in the end, sometimes one's most important moments come during the most unexpected times.

    For Jones, that time was Oct. 22 against WVU, when he came off a six-game layoff to dominate a (then) top-25 program. That was enough for NFL front-office brass and scouts to believe in him. Will they be right?

    I am curious to find out: http://www.nunesmagician.com/2012/4/25/2972678/2012-nfl-draft-syracuse-value-chandler-jones-first-round-pick


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    We shall see

    but Reiss says that the Jets tried hard to move down and couldnt' find suitors
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

         Who fits the following draft profile?

         "A shorter than ideal 4-3 DE with a solid build, good strength, and excellent speed. Extremely productive...very quick off the ball. Can penetrate gaps and disrupt blocking schemes. Quick with his hans put is slow to shed blocks - can get tied up and leveraged out. Has great initial burst off contact, enabling him to chase plays away. Locates quickly and takes good pursuit angles. Dynamic pass rusher who pressures the edge really well. Gets ridden wide too often, but is explosive on his close onto the QB. Light on his feet...agile. Can spin with good control. Could project as a LB - has some experience dropping into coverage. More of a pass-rusher than an all-around player." 

         No...it's not a draft description of the just under 6' 2", 265 lb. DE Melvin Ingram. It's the 2002 OurLads Draft Guide description for the just under 6'1" 265 lb. DE, Dwight Freeney. 
      

         "Ingram has a low center and strong legs, much like Dwight Freeney of the Colts. He isn't as explosive as Freeney, but he does have big-time closing speed. Ingram's best 40 time at the combine was 4.69, the same as Coples. But the 20-yard shuttle times, which show the ability to change directions quickly, give a big edge to Ingram. His best time was 4.18 seconds. Coples' best was 4.80. That's a huge difference.

    That's what makes Ingram special, closing speed and the ability to explode after the runner and the quarterback.

    That doesn't mean he is without flaws. I think he tries to use his spin moves way too much instead of playing head-up, which voids the hole sometimes for the back. But that can be coached out of him.

    I'm not saying he's JPP or Freeney. What I am saying is despite him not looking the part, being short and stocky, Ingram is the best pass rusher in this draft."

         Pete Prisco, CBS Sports

      

      
     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    [QUOTE]Not at 16 they didn't.  Jones is a good player, but I think even we reached a bit.  However, I am all for going after a player if you truely want him.  I don't think you change your defensive alignment because of one guy.  Although the Jets play a base 3-4, they fluctuate as much as any team.  16 would have been way too high for Chandler.  The Jets were looking to trade down, possibly to get Chandler and pick up another pick.  But when a talent like Coples falls to you at 16 you take him.  I don't think the Jets or any team would have gone wrong with Ingram or Coples, but Coples has more of an upside.  I think he played tackle last year.  His frame is huge and I'm guessing that he will be worthy of the #16 pick.
    Posted by Bustchise[/QUOTE]

    After the first 6 players there was a fall off in assessed talent. If you believe in a particular player and he is rated as going within a round of where you pick him you don't have to overanalyze yourself or accept the overanalysis of all the talking heads. Yes, trade down a bit if you can and if you feel certain about your move. But, like the Jets seemed to find, you can't always trade down. So you take the guy you think is best for you. Not the guy who all the talking heads say are less of a "reach". If you like Jones over Coples you take Jones over Coples.

    Someone said it in another thread: good GMs (real GMs?) try to put put together a team that will win games on the field. Talking heads, fans (and bad GMs?) try to "win" the draft. I think we know where BB falls in this perspective.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Weaknesses

    Coples' motor has been the single question mark throughout his collegiate career. While Coples is known to possess strength and quickness that should beat most offensive linemen in the ACC, at times he can disappear from the action. While he is a great interior player, Coples doesn't see much action outside the box and his lateral movement can be an Achilles heel for him when running down plays. There are also question marks surrounding his ability to use his hands, and his ability to ignite his feet and hips to make quick-twitch plays. He can seem as if he's moving in slow motion at times.

    While he doesn't have an array of pass-rush moves to beat NFL left tackles, his pure power allows him to be disruptive and productive at the position.


    Coples has a wingspan of 33 1/4" as measured at the combine.  Pretty good, but Jones is 35 1/2".  Furthermore, Jones can outjump Coples by 3.5 inches.  Jones is going to swat an awful lot of passes straight up in the air.  Jones sheds blockers better through better hand work.  Also, Jones has great top speed for chasing down outside runs.

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/quinton-coples?id=2532818

    Coples won't be a bust, but Jones could easily outclass him.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    [QUOTE]Of course the Jets screwed up. It's what they do.  Coples has intangible flaws. Any players that has inconsistency issues at the NCAA level is in for a rude awakening at the NFL level. BB is thrilled to have the guy he wanted.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]
    How can anyone discern with certainty the 'bust' from the 'real deal'? What if the Pats screwed up? What happenned in college stays in college. How many retread, has been, troubled and colleagate personality flawed players has BB brought into his system and failed. All the draft is, except for legitimate athletic freaks, are a sure thing at the NFL level? It's nothing but a crap shoot and hope that he plays to or above his potential? And there's arguement here. Spin it anyway you want. It is what it is.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    figures, .. the jets always mess up these days. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    [QUOTE]The argument would seem to be if the Jets can get the complete package out of Coples as far as intensity and drive... if his head is in the game and he is playing with a 'high motor' he would appear to be the slightly better prospect than Jones who is just a bit smaller and slower.... but also a 'safer' pick to not be a bust. Could be great or very bad for NY, while it will not likely be anything but good-very good for the Pats. And Ingram was the guy they shoulda picked anyhow to be an OLB in the 3-4. I wonder if he fell to the 20-23 range if Bill would have taken him over Jones? Jones is that Elephany guy right now, but if he gained 20lbs he could be an 3-4 DE or if he lost 10 lbs he could be a 3-4 OLB. I don't think Coples would ever have transitioned to OLB.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    i see jones putting on 15 in a year(in the team training program without even trying) . after that he could add or remain the same.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    [QUOTE]Yeah I just think the boom or bust label applies more to Coples than Jones since Coples seems to be the bigger/faster guy but didn't bring it in college consistently the way Jones did. If they are talking about these two guys who weigh 265-285 as the only real DE's in the draft, they must have been talking about them as 4-3 DE's, b/c you'd think they currently lack the 290-310 bulk Bill and Rex prefer for their 3-4 DE's. Thats why passing on guys like Reyes, Still and Worthy in the 2nd rd, who could easily have filled the Mike Wright and Jarvis Green roles, and likely even the Ty Warren role from recent years, to a take a safety you could grabbed 3 rounds, later is so dumb.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    +1

    my draft comment:

    i would have preferred an elite cb. this is one of the more important positions on the field. this was the one year we could have got one.

    ditto on the big outside wr. (this was the one year we could have got one).

    would have also liked a very good dt/dl

    hopefully we have enough including udfa to get the job done this year. id love for bb to turn it into the patriots super invitational before he retires(making it every year and winning 2/3).

    i see 3 potential years more with brady and wilfork in prime.
     i would try to draft wilforks future replacement next year.
    (we should begin to determine what mallet can become this year)

    if we had a shutdown corner, an unstoppable rookie outside wr and draft a wilfork of the future and another o line stud next year we would be in contention for my desired name change of the super bowl above.

    hope we get over the hump this year.



     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share