Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    I don't guarantee that Coples will be a bust, and I have quite successfully ragged on several Jets players from day one after the draft: Dewayne Shrimpy-Arms, Stone-Hips Gholston (looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane say the New Jersey papers), the Sanchize and Kyle Mini-Me Wilson, not to mention Mike Genius Tannenbaum their GM.  Coples is simply average.  As a defensive end he won't always push NFL tackles around the way he pushed college linemen around, he has no swim move, and other teams will get wise to running around the end and leaving the slow Coples in the dust.  Coples looks like Tarzan and has limitations, so he might have a bit of that Vernon Gholston problem, but he's better than Gholston in my opinion, which isn't saying that much.  I think he'll be an average starter.

    Also on my rag list were the Dolphins' Pat Wildcat White and Tim Tebow, who might do something with his career but is still not a quarterback. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    I don't think Couples will be a bust but he's certainly not a sure thing.  Jets had every DE/OLB available to them and they made a huge statement by selecting Couples.  

    What that says to me they believed he would be the best from all the players available.  Time will tell, I think Jones will have have a better career but it will be interesting seeing the stats over the next few years.  These two guys will be compared to each other maybe for their entire career.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    I think Jones has the highest upside of the 4 but might be the most raw of the 4. He could be one of the best D players to come out of this draft but at the same time he could bust if he doesn't develop, so Jones is in a wait and hold pattern

    Ingram is the most pro ready right now and will bring the most to his team immediately. He should be a solid player with pro-bowl upside throughout his career. The issue being that he might already be close to his ceiling. He's come out of the gate fast but what he shows in his first couple of years might be what you expect for his career

    Mercilus is the flashiest of the 4 because of his rushing ability. He'll be the one who stands out the most because of his immediate impact with sacks but he might not be anything more then a pass rushing specialist so his overall impact won't be as much as say Ingram or Jones (provided he develops). He might follow Dunlaps career so far. In on pass rushing plays but taken out on early downs and running downs

    Couples to me won't make it far in the league. The fact that he admitted to not giving 100% because he was afraid on injury affecting his draft stock is unnerving enough but then you group him with a guy who held out once for a big contract halfway through his contract and is debating a second hold out for even more money half way through that first hold out contract and that's danger. This guy seems like a classic tease player. Someone who will be a pro-bowler when then money's on the line, but once he gets paid will pack it up. Of the 4 I see the least production from Couples
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    I think Jones has the highest upside of the 4 but might be the most raw of the 4. He could be one of the best D players to come out of this draft but at the same time he could bust if he doesn't develop, so Jones is in a wait and hold pattern Ingram is the most pro ready right now and will bring the most to his team immediately. He should be a solid player with pro-bowl upside throughout his career. The issue being that he might already be close to his ceiling. He's come out of the gate fast but what he shows in his first couple of years might be what you expect for his career Mercilus is the flashiest of the 4 because of his rushing ability. He'll be the one who stands out the most because of his immediate impact with sacks but he might not be anything more then a pass rushing specialist so his overall impact won't be as much as say Ingram or Jones (provided he develops). He might follow Dunlaps career so far. In on pass rushing plays but taken out on early downs and running downs Couples to me won't make it far in the league. The fact that he admitted to not giving 100% because he was afraid on injury affecting his draft stock is unnerving enough but then you group him with a guy who held out once for a big contract halfway through his contract and is debating a second hold out for even more money half way through that first hold out contract and that's danger. This guy seems like a classic tease player. Someone who will be a pro-bowler when then money's on the line, but once he gets paid will pack it up. Of the 4 I see the least production from Couples
    Posted by PatsEng


         I thought that Ingram would have been the better choice for the Jets, and their system. But, I can understand them being so enticed with the size and wing-span of Quinton Coples. Both Coples and Chandler Jones owe Jason Pierre-Paul a dinner. His great play with the Giants seemed to influence both the Pats and Jets to take these too similarly tall, long-armed DEs.   
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? : +1 my draft comment: i would have preferred an elite cb. this is one of the more important positions on the field. this was the one year we could have got one. ditto on the big outside wr. (this was the one year we could have got one). would have also liked a very good dt/dl hopefully we have enough including udfa to get the job done this year. id love for bb to turn it into the patriots super invitational before he retires(making it every year and winning 2/3). i see 3 potential years more with brady and wilfork in prime.  i would try to draft wilforks future replacement next year. (we should begin to determine what mallet can become this year) if we had a shutdown corner, an unstoppable rookie outside wr and draft a wilfork of the future and another o line stud next year we would be in contention for my desired name change of the super bowl above. hope we get over the hump this year.
    Posted by bredbru


    Well, they weren't going to get into the top 10 to get an elite CB in this draft and Jenkins was no way Patriot material. One reason STL took Jenkins is because they had so many picks.
    BUt, what NE did do is take a top notch press coverage CB in Dennard in Rd 7.  He was 2nd rd value, if not high 2nd, even back end 1st for some teams (like ours) who wanted an elite CB or a conversion FS prospect.

    If you are a believer in McCourty and Dowling like I am (each has some range), NE is a lot better off in this area then in recent years.

    I had Dennard coming here as an option in the draft before his bar incident, and it will be interesting to see if BB puts him back there with Gregory and Chung early in camp.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? :      I thought that Ingram would have been the better choice for the Jets, and their system. But, I can understand them being so enticed with the size and wing-span of Quinton Coples. Both Coples and Chandler Jones owe Jason Pierre-Paul a dinner. His great play with the Giants seemed to influence both the Pats and Jets to take these too similarly tall, long-armed DEs.   
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Well BB has been searching for a Willie replacement for awhile now and more recently Vrable type of builds. I don't think it's a coincidence BB took two players with similar builds to Willie and Vrable in this draft (Bequette and Jones). Going back over past drafts there really weren't a ton of players with those types of builds and playing styles. It just so happens that here are two guys who each respectively have similar playing styles and builds to some of BB's favorite LB's. Looking back it's a wonder that no one saw the direct comparisons earlier with these players
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    I think Jones has the highest upside of the 4 but might be the most raw of the 4. He could be one of the best D players to come out of this draft but at the same time he could bust if he doesn't develop, so Jones is in a wait and hold pattern Ingram is the most pro ready right now and will bring the most to his team immediately. He should be a solid player with pro-bowl upside throughout his career. The issue being that he might already be close to his ceiling. He's come out of the gate fast but what he shows in his first couple of years might be what you expect for his career Mercilus is the flashiest of the 4 because of his rushing ability. He'll be the one who stands out the most because of his immediate impact with sacks but he might not be anything more then a pass rushing specialist so his overall impact won't be as much as say Ingram or Jones (provided he develops). He might follow Dunlaps career so far. In on pass rushing plays but taken out on early downs and running downs Couples to me won't make it far in the league. The fact that he admitted to not giving 100% because he was afraid on injury affecting his draft stock is unnerving enough but then you group him with a guy who held out once for a big contract halfway through his contract and is debating a second hold out for even more money half way through that first hold out contract and that's danger. This guy seems like a classic tease player. Someone who will be a pro-bowler when then money's on the line, but once he gets paid will pack it up. Of the 4 I see the least production from Couples
    Posted by PatsEng


    I agree on Coples.  Screams Gholston but with more range and in a 4-3. A player admitting he was selfish is not a good sign. He fits right in with the Jets. lol

    Also, Ryan sitting him out of drills in his first few practices?  WHat kind of a signal does that send?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Why was Vernon Gholston a bust? People act like they knew all along now, and all the people around here that liked him have developed amnesia. People now say he was just a workout warrior. He wasn't, he was a leader in sacks in the big 10 and faced some very good tackles like Jake Long (and was the only guy to beat him for a sack his last season). Mayock had him as the fourth best player in 08. You can google his scouting reports almost everyone had him as a top 10 pick and those that didn't had him as a first rounder still. How could everyone come to the same conclusion, and everyone be wrong. How about Jared Allen a 4th round pick, and considered a reach at that. You can easily find players who were bigger, stronger, faster, and came from bigger schools. Richard Seymour recorded 1.5 sacks his senior year. I really don't know. The only thing amazing about Jones is his arm length, the rest of his numbers and his production was good but not great. Coples is bigger, and faster but hes not the biggest or fastest. His build is not exceptionally rare for NFL players. I'd be happy if they drafted either guy, but the biggest reason I'm happy is that BBs last three first round DLineman were Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork and I trust his judgement. But there no discernible reason from what I've seen why one is should be much better than the other.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Look at Mangione using another one of his names. lol

    Gholston was a roid case and workout freak, not a football player. Some saw it a mile away.

    Does Andy Katzenmoyer ring a bell?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    Why was Vernon Gholston a bust? People act like they knew all along now, and all the people around here that liked him have developed amnesia. People now say he was just a workout warrior. He wasn't, he was a leader in sacks in the big 10 and faced some very good tackles like Jake Long (and was the only guy to beat him for a sack his last season). Mayock had him as the fourth best player in 08. You can google his scouting reports almost everyone had him as a top 10 pick and those that didn't had him as a first rounder still. How could everyone come to the same conclusion, and everyone be wrong. How about Jared Allen a 4th round pick, and considered a reach at that. You can easily find players who were bigger, stronger, faster, and came from bigger schools. Richard Seymour recorded 1.5 sacks his senior year. I really don't know. The only thing amazing about Jones is his arm length, the rest of his numbers and his production was good but not great. Coples is bigger, and faster but hes not the biggest or fastest. His build is not exceptionally rare for NFL players. I'd be happy if they drafted either guy, but the biggest reason I'm happy is that BBs last three first round DLineman were Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork and I trust his judgement. But there no discernible reason from what I've seen why one is should be much better than the other.
    Posted by shenanigan


    lol, yes hindsight is 20/20, but you can go back and check, a few of us didn't want Gholston because he was a workout warrior. I know MB was another one who wasn't on the Gholston bus. I wanted Ellis or Rivers, so I guess I was 50/50 on that one. Honestly I thought Mayo was a solid player I would have taken in the back of the 1st or 2nd, but since we didn't have a pick in that range he was an afterthought to me. Boy, am I glad I was wrong about that.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In response to "Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?":
    Look at Mangione using another one of his names. lol Gholston was a roid case and workout freak, not a football player. Some saw it a mile away. Does Andy Katzenmoyer ring a bell? Posted by BassFishing
    Me, I'm Mangione? Saying you don't think he's t a top ten pick isn't the same as saying he's a bust with no talent. If you're saying that's what you said , fine. I don't know, I can't check. Not the point anyway. If he was there in say, the third round people would be screaming to get him because of value. I didn't see one single person who didn't think this guy was first, or at worst second round quality. If you have a scouting report where somebody said that I'd be interested. So my point is, all these guys independently came to basically the same conclusion. And why wouldn't they? Freeney was a combine hero with a similiar college career. Did he have bust written all over him? I don't believe that all the answers are available. You can look at players from every conceivable angle and still not be right about who will make it in the NFL. It's not that some guys are dumb, it's just that there no way to be sure.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? : Well BB has been searching for a Willie replacement for awhile now and more recently Vrable type of builds. I don't think it's a coincidence BB took two players with similar builds to Willie and Vrable in this draft (Bequette and Jones). Going back over past drafts there really weren't a ton of players with those types of builds and playing styles. It just so happens that here are two guys who each respectively have similar playing styles and builds to some of BB's favorite LB's. Looking back it's a wonder that no one saw the direct comparisons earlier with these players
    Posted by PatsEng


         Actually...the comparisons to Big Willie and Vrabel have been discussed by myself and others, previously. Last year, BB missed the boat with DE/OLB Jabaal Sheard, and OLB Brooks Reid...opting for the talented but injury prone Ras-I Dowling, instead.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    Why was Vernon Gholston a bust? People act like they knew all along now, and all the people around here that liked him have developed amnesia. People now say he was just a workout warrior. He wasn't, he was a leader in sacks in the big 10 and faced some very good tackles like Jake Long (and was the only guy to beat him for a sack his last season). Mayock had him as the fourth best player in 08. You can google his scouting reports almost everyone had him as a top 10 pick and those that didn't had him as a first rounder still. How could everyone come to the same conclusion, and everyone be wrong. How about Jared Allen a 4th round pick, and considered a reach at that. You can easily find players who were bigger, stronger, faster, and came from bigger schools. Richard Seymour recorded 1.5 sacks his senior year. I really don't know. The only thing amazing about Jones is his arm length, the rest of his numbers and his production was good but not great. Coples is bigger, and faster but hes not the biggest or fastest. His build is not exceptionally rare for NFL players. I'd be happy if they drafted either guy, but the biggest reason I'm happy is that BBs last three first round DLineman were Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork and I trust his judgement. But there no discernible reason from what I've seen why one is should be much better than the other.
    Posted by shenanigan


    You do make some very good points and quite honestly what you are saying is the NFL draft in a nut shell, however I think Gholston and Coples have something in common...lack of heart. I remember watching Gholston play in the most important game of his life before he left for the draft, and I couldn't believe what a dog he was. This was a guy with all world talent and he was getting pushed around, not chasing down plays and he could care less about putting his body in a pile. From everything I've read about Coples, he has some similar traits.

    I will always bet against a defensive lineman that doesn't have heart or is known for not giving max effort. When you weigh 260 plus pounds and have to move guys that are 300 plus pounds, it is very hard to do if you historically aren't an effort type of guy. I've just seen too many of these types fail.

    There have been some guys that had amazing talent, but with questionable desire/heart that have done well...Chester McGlocton, Trevor Price, Haynesworth, but most of these types are big disappointments. The three I mentioned above were no picnics either.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Coples was concerned about his draft stock, hence why he tried hard in the Senior Bowl. We already covered that. lol
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? : You must be think of Kyle Wilson year one.  While Mr zone coverage McCourty got worse in year two, Wilson got better and had a much better year than McCourty.  Amazing what happens when you give guys a year to play.
    Posted by JetMangione


    Please. If that was the case, Father of the Year Cromartie would have been dealt by now to clear cap space for Mr. Hold Out himself, Revis.
    lmao

    Every time you attempt to make a point, expect to be slapped. Wilson is nothing more than a serviceable nickelback that you wasted a 1st rd pick on in the deepest draft in 25 years.  Flat out embarrassing. No one takes a career nickelback in Round 1. No one.

    Except the Jets.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In response to "Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?": Me, I'm Mangione? Saying you don't think he's t a top ten pick isn't the same as saying he's a bust with no talent. If you're saying that's what you said , fine. I don't know, I can't check. Not the point anyway. If he was there in say, the third round people would be screaming to get him because of value. I didn't see one single person who didn't think this guy was first, or at worst second round quality. If you have a scouting report where somebody said that I'd be interested. So my point is, all these guys independently came to basically the same conclusion. And why wouldn't they? Freeney was a combine hero with a similiar college career. Did he have bust written all over him? I don't believe that all the answers are available. You can look at players from every conceivable angle and still not be right about who will make it in the NFL. It's not that some guys are dumb, it's just that there no way to be sure.
    Posted by shenanigan


    No, Bustchise. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? : What an idiot, in this case for being such a believer in McCourty's big decline and bust RasI.  Just another Butler, he'll be gone before his first contract is up.  A BB norm, it seems.
    Posted by JetMangione


    Nope. McCourty and Dowling will be the outside starting CBs in 2012.  Arrington moves inside.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? : Well, they weren't going to get into the top 10 to get an elite CB in this draft and Jenkins was no way Patriot material. One reason STL took Jenkins is because they had so many picks. BUt, what NE did do is take a top notch press coverage CB in Dennard in Rd 7.  He was 2nd rd value, if not high 2nd, even back end 1st for some teams (like ours) who wanted an elite CB or a conversion FS prospect. If you are a believer in McCourty and Dowling like I am (each has some range), NE is a lot better off in this area then in recent years. I had Dennard coming here as an option in the draft before his bar incident, and it will be interesting to see if BB puts him back there with Gregory and Chung early in camp.
    Posted by BassFishing


    bass i am high on dowling (said before his being drafted that if his injuries check out, we should pik him, and he was the best cb without much camp until he got hurt.

    till mccourty shows dramatic improvement in practice i would not let him see the field as a cb. fs fine. dennard is not that quick. can play cb and fs. was thinking moving to fs at draft. so i guess it depends on how all these guys in camp and preseason look (as to where to play dennard mostly).

    i lke hightower, just woudl have valued the shutdown cb higher.

    thanks for the post
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? : bass i am high on dowling (said before his being drafted that if his injuries check out, we should pik him, and he was the best cb without much camp until he got hurt. till mccourty shows dramatic improvement in practice i would not let him see the field as a cb. fs fine. dennard is not that quick. can play cb and fs. was thinking moving to fs at draft. so i guess it depends on how all these guys in camp and preseason look (as to where to play dennard mostly). i lke hightower, just woudl have valued the shutdown cb higher. thanks for the post
    Posted by bredbru


    Yep. I think the lockout hurt any of the younger defenses last year.  Looking forward to an improved D yet again in 2012.

    Loved the Hightower pick myself. Cannot even believe he dropped past 20 like that.

    Dennard could be the steal of the draft.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? : Where as Coples had a hellofa Senior Bowl against top competition.  
    Posted by JetMangione


    That is pretty standard procedure for these types...show up for all the pre draft games and workouts...look awesome...make a boat load of rookie contract cash...and then disappoint. It happens every single year - these types workout for the draft slotting and then go bye bye.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    it gets settled on the field
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    I gushed over what now?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?:
    In Response to Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones? : You must be think of Kyle Wilson year one.  While Mr zone coverage McCourty got worse in year two, Wilson got better and had a much better year than McCourty.  Amazing what happens when you give guys a year to play.
    Posted by JetMangione


    If you were as informed as you were snide, you might actually contribute something.

    McCourty was matched up with Vincent Jackson, Brandon Marshall, Mike Wallace, Anquan Boldin, and other NUMBER ONE receivers

    Wilson was matched up against ... who, exactly?  Those guys' backup's backup in the slot, except when it was Wes Welker and they knew Welker would pants him so they put Revis on him (and Welker still got his 5 catches a game).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rainbowroosie. Show rainbowroosie's posts

    Re: Jets Erred in Taking Coples Over Chandler Jones?

    Character DOES matter. Virtually the entire group recruited to NC by the sleazebagger coach had problems. They were all talented, but lacked the qualities you want in a player.


    When was the last time the Jets were in the Superbowl??Cool
     
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