Jets Scoping Out the White House

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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : Thats my point... you didnt make a good point you said they had a great defense and lots would agree but I disagreed...if thier defense was so great they would have shut us down..(both games).. they did not and I will be the first to admit we were not at the top of our game last year.......and missed opportunities is joey gallowy dropping wide open passes in the endzone... and when it mattered..not because they stopped us... they have put themselves in the superbowl...with their "great" defense we should actually see nothing less....     but we will just trudge along quietly and let the chips fall where they may!!!
    Posted by jcour382


    So, you are saying a team that has a great defense never gets lit up. I think that Pats team of 2004 had an awesome D, but gave up 34 to the Steelers and almost 30 a piece to bad Dolphins and Bengals teams.  Unlike the Patriots who had a top 10 offense last year, those teams were not good offensive teams.  Good defenses get lit up, it happens, especially when their QB turns the ball over 5 times.  The Steelers had the best D in 2008, yet they gave up 30+ to the Titans- not a good offensive team.  You must think that the Steelers were not a great defensive team, right?
    You then made the claim that 'great defenses are good in third down efficiency and points allowed '  This is what the Jets did very well last year while lacking a strong pass rush.  Using your own criteria, why do you not think it was a great D?
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT...  when you think you are that good(even before you have proven anything)...you loose that edge..that drive to make you better...when you are humble you think you "may" be good, you "could" be good but you will do what ever it takes to make sure that happens..and you wont talk about it along the way...  hence bill belichicks philosphy... which is proven by the way... im not upset at all...i just think its a bunch of bull...its funny to the point of being stupid.. its about competing everyear for the opportunity to win the SB not stating you will you see some leaner years while re-tooling(that word sounds better doesnt it?) and all of a sudden the sky is falling and the big bad wolf is coming to blow your house down... but this sh*t wasnt built with straw....and the wolf aint really as big or bad as "he" says he is.. The jests had a good thing going but changed philosophy midstream...it is my stated opinion that that will be their downfall..and they will implode upon themselves...     and it goes back to the original point they put the cart before the horse and forgot about the blood, sweat and tears that it takes to be champions...not just saying we have a great defense
    Posted by jcour382




    What was this philosphy change?  I tried to find some information about it, but I couldn't.  You must have a link to an aticle, right?
    Just so I understand what you are saying here, you beleive that the Patriots think that they might be a good team?  Perhaps Tom Brady isn't quite sure that he'll put up some great numbers?
    Also, are you sayingthat stating a goal somehow precludes a team from working hard towards that goal?
    I do appreciate the Chicken Little and the Three Little Pigs references.  It helps me get a clearer picture as to where you are coming from.
    I am guessing you are way to young to remember Larry Legend playing the game, but he was one of the cockiest men alive.  He would tell oposing players before and during games what he was going to do to them and then go do it.  Somehow, his stated confidence didn't prevent him from working hard and he never realy lost that 'edge' you referenced. 
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    The Jets are so going to fail. I can wait to laugh at their fans.
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    The Jets are so going to fail. I can wait to laugh at their fans.
    Posted by CubanPete


    How long can you wait?  I am far more interested in the Pats doing well. If the Dolphins win the East, it won't really matter how the Jets did.
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : What? Are you telling me the Colts did not pull their starters in the 3rd?  What???!   Please tell me you aren't saying that. BB is held to a different standard, period.  The amount of mistakes up against successes is not even a comparable scenario when placed against other coaches.
    Posted by russgriswold


    Maybe it was, I don't remember. Manning went out in the third, but not everyone else.  Really though, who cares? If that is what you have to cry about, your life is sad.  All you do is cry about how unfair it is.  It's really pathetic. Listen here, chief, no matter what coach goes for it on fourth down at a critical point in the game and doesn't convert, people second guess them.  Get over it.  I've been a part of a lot of football over the years in many different markets, there is no anti Bill conspiracy.  All around the country you here about all the bogus calls the Pats have gotten and I say the same thing, sukk it up!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Huggybear999. Show Huggybear999's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : Maybe it was, I don't remember. Manning went out in the third, but not everyone else.  Really though, who cares? If that is what you have to cry about, your life is sad.  All you do is cry about how unfair it is.  It's really pathetic. Listen here, chief, no matter what coach goes for it on fourth down at a critical point in the game and doesn't convert, people second guess them.  Get over it.  I've been a part of a lot of football over the years in many different markets, there is no anti Bill conspiracy.  All around the country you here about all the bogus calls the Pats have gotten and I say the same thing, sukk it up!
    Posted by waldorff


    You make some good points Waldorf. Everyone should just shut up except for you, unless they say what you want them to. Nobody should be able to rag on another team. They should all just stand around like Unics and follow your lead.
    How dare someone here act like a fan.





     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : So, you are saying a team that has a great defense never gets lit up. I think that Pats team of 2004 had an awesome D, but gave up 34 to the Steelers and almost 30 a piece to bad Dolphins and Bengals teams.  Unlike the Patriots who had a top 10 offense last year, those teams were not good offensive teams.  Good defenses get lit up, it happens, especially when their QB turns the ball over 5 times.  The Steelers had the best D in 2008, yet they gave up 30+ to the Titans- not a good offensive team.  You must think that the Steelers were not a great defensive team, right? You then made the claim that 'great defenses are good in third down efficiency and points allowed '  This is what the Jets did very well last year while lacking a strong pass rush.  Using your own criteria, why do you not think it was a great D?
    Posted by waldorff


    you make my point for me...you say jests had no passrush...by name alone GREAT D...that would disqualify them......  jets were mediocre last year and backed into playoffs and did not win...enough said on them

    and a great d would get you to and help you win the superbowl...maybe like the ravens with trent dilfer...or the bears when they crushed newengland.. 



     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : What was this philosphy change?  I tried to find some information about it, but I couldn't.  You must have a link to an aticle, right? Just so I understand what you are saying here, you beleive that the Patriots think that they might be a good team?  Perhaps Tom Brady isn't quite sure that he'll put up some great numbers? Also, are you sayingthat stating a goal somehow precludes a team from working hard towards that goal? I do appreciate the Chicken Little and the Three Little Pigs references.  It helps me get a clearer picture as to where you are coming from. I am guessing you are way to young to remember Larry Legend playing the game, but he was one of the cockiest men alive.  He would tell oposing players before and during games what he was going to do to them and then go do it.  Somehow, his stated confidence didn't prevent him from working hard and he never realy lost that 'edge' you referenced. 
    Posted by waldorff


    when fatboy slim came in they changed from building team through draft to getting fa's at high prices to win now...it excelerated this year...i think just about every publication out there has something on the jets offseason...

    so when your arguement is weak you start to make personal attacks? hmmmnnnnn  at least you understand concepts... and using larry bird as an example is a very good way to make my point....and yes I was going to training camp back at bryant college when nellie was a rookie not that it matters

    larry might have talked trash....but I also remember he had the skill and the hardware(championships) to back it up... i dont remember him telling the world they would be champions any year he was there though I m sure he thought it...dont remember any of that in the media either but that was another day and the electronic world had not exploded... and to prove my point he was the hardest working superstar of his day.. constantly working on his game to contuiously get better...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : you make my point for me...you say jests had no passrush...by name alone GREAT D...that would disqualify them......  jets were mediocre last year and backed into playoffs and did not win...enough said on them and a great d would get you to and help you win the superbowl...maybe like the ravens with trent dilfer...or the bears when they crushed newengland.. 
    Posted by jcour382

     
    But you said "great defenses are good in third down efficiency and points allowed...all the rest is flash and statistical hype..."

    However you are wrong there too.  The point of defense is to not give up points as the point of offense is to score them.  You could have zero sacks and 100 picks and still be a great D.  It's like saying that a team that leads the league in scoring,breaks records, but has just an average running game is not a great offense (the 2007 Patriots) is not a great offensive team.  Once again, you'd be wrong.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Huggybear999. Show Huggybear999's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House :   But you said "great defenses are good in third down efficiency and points allowed...all the rest is flash and statistical hype..." However you are wrong there too.  The point of defense is to not give up points as the point of offense is to score them.  You could have zero sacks and 100 picks and still be a great D.  It's like saying that a team that leads the league in scoring,breaks records, but has just an average running game is not a great offense (the 2007 Patriots) is not a great offensive team.  Once again, you'd be wrong.
    Posted by waldorff


    Interesting!.. After reading through your past posts I haven't found anything that would even remotely suggest you are a pats fan. You started this profile 2 weeks ago and have managed to rip, Bellichick, The Defense, the fans and anything else in sight. I guess your just an unhappy Pats fan that hates everything about the team and the fans and decided to start up a new profile to vent. Nice try but a little too transparent. I wonder who I could compare your posts to?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : when fatboy slim came in they changed from building team through draft to getting fa's at high prices to win now...it excelerated this year...i think just about every publication out there has something on the jets offseason... so when your arguement is weak you start to make personal attacks? hmmmnnnnn  at least you understand concepts... and using larry bird as an example is a very good way to make my point....and yes I was going to training camp back at bryant college when nellie was a rookie not that it matters larry might have talked trash....but I also remember he had the skill and the hardware(championships) to back it up... i dont remember him telling the world they would be champions any year he was there though I m sure he thought it...dont remember any of that in the media either but that was another day and the electronic world had not exploded... and to prove my point he was the hardest working superstar of his day.. constantly working on his game to contuiously get better...
    Posted by jcour382


    I try to have patience with you younger fans that are just transitionning from Chicken Little to the NFL and I try to help you understand,but it is frustrating.  The Jets have used free agency quite a bit the lst few years in conjunction with drafting pretty well. Last year was no difference.  I think they were 3 for 3 in picks last year (3 picks, 3 starters).  Prior to Rex Ryan's arrival they had signed Ricardson, Faneca, Woody, Pouha, Pace, all starters last year. 
    But before you think you understand the real situations, remember AD, Bodden, Chris Baker, Springs (the list goes on and on).  We use free agency as much as any team and in our superbowl years, they were the key to our success.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : Interesting!.. After reading through your past posts I haven't found anything that would even remotely suggest you are a pats fan. You started this profile 2 weeks ago and have managed to rip, Bellichick, The Defense, the fans and anything else in sight. I guess your just an unhappy Pats fan that hates everything about the team and the fans and decided to start up a new profile to vent. Nice try but a little too transparent. I wonder who I could compare your posts to?
    Posted by Huggybear999


    My name used to be huggybear99, but some idiot tried to clone it, so I gave it up.  It is not necessary for a fan to blindly believe that everything his or her team does is a great move.  I never thought that giving Ortiz a long term contract in 2006 was a great idea.  Most Sox fans disagreed.  Was it a great idea?  I also never thought it was a great idea to believe that your team was great when it isn't.  The Pats are still a couple years away from the chance of being great again.  The quality and contribution of those upcoming first round picks are essential.  I am hopeful every year that the Pats, Sox, and Celtics do well, but I am rarely fooled into thinking my teams are something they are not.  Plus I am quite fortunate that my job keeps me very close to the sports world of many cities and I communicate with fans from many of those areas.  Although there are a few places that are close, no fanbase is as close minded and blindly follow their teams as those in the northeast. 
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House :   But you said "great defenses are good in third down efficiency and points allowed...all the rest is flash and statistical hype..." However you are wrong there too.  The point of defense is to not give up points as the point of offense is to score them.  You could have zero sacks and 100 picks and still be a great D.  It's like saying that a team that leads the league in scoring,breaks records, but has just an average running game is not a great offense (the 2007 Patriots) is not a great offensive team.  Once again, you'd be wrong.
    Posted by waldorff



    You are correct about one thing...

    I mispoke in that particular post and said "great defenses" but I meant to say patriot defenses... as that is what they are efficient in and what bill cares about and thats when they are good... but I do not think any of them have been great... good to very good though for sure...  




     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : I try to have patience with you younger fans that are just transitionning from Chicken Little to the NFL and I try to help you understand,but it is frustrating.  The Jets have used free agency quite a bit the lst few years in conjunction with drafting pretty well. Last year was no difference.  I think they were 3 for 3 in picks last year (3 picks, 3 starters).  Prior to Rex Ryan's arrival they had signed Ricardson, Faneca, Woody, Pouha, Pace, all starters last year.  But before you think you understand the real situations, remember AD, Bodden, Chris Baker, Springs (the list goes on and on).  We use free agency as much as any team and in our superbowl years, they were the key to our success.
    Posted by waldorff


    so in reference to your point of younger fans...your stating that you were a patriot fan in the days of gino cappaletti and babe parilli?

    pats build through the draft...but they also sign FA'S everyyear  thats no secret or revelation...the difference is they are not of the high priced, break the bank variety... adalieus thomas was the exception, not the rule.. a mistake .and he proved why that is not the way to go... the jests on the otherhand dont adhere to that rule.so there is a difference

    ..but this has digressed from your original point which you still have not been able to adequately prove...while trying to butress your weak arguement by reverting to childish insinuation

    jests trolls should do better...



     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Huggybear999. Show Huggybear999's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : My name used to be huggybear99, but some idiot tried to clone it, so I gave it up.  It is not necessary for a fan to blindly believe that everything his or her team does is a great move.  I never thought that giving Ortiz a long term contract in 2006 was a great idea.  Most Sox fans disagreed.  Was it a great idea?  I also never thought it was a great idea to believe that your team was great when it isn't.  The Pats are still a couple years away from the chance of being great again.  The quality and contribution of those upcoming first round picks are essential.  I am hopeful every year that the Pats, Sox, and Celtics do well, but I am rarely fooled into thinking my teams are something they are not.  Plus I am quite fortunate that my job keeps me very close to the sports world of many cities and I communicate with fans from many of those areas.  Although there are a few places that are close, no fanbase is as close minded and blindly follow their teams as those in the northeast. 
    Posted by waldorff


    We're fans and you're either a miserable person that goes home and kicks his dog at night or a troll. The fact that it bothers you suggests that you are miserable whether you're a troll or not. Your posts are strikingly similar to others who just seem to pop out of thin air. Nice attempt attempt at an explaination though. I am an expert troll myself elsewhere and use the same M.O.
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    I have read numerous times in this thread that the patsies had an off year last year.  What have they done to better themselves this year?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : You are correct about one thing... I mispoke in that particular post and said "great defenses" but I meant to say patriot defenses... as that is what they are efficient in and what bill cares about and thats when they are good... but I do not think any of them have been great... good to very good though for sure...    
    Posted by jcour382


    Although it's a cute stat, third down efficiency is a bit overratted.  You can have a great third down efficiency and still give up big plays on first and second down. 
    I disagree with you about those Pats Ds.  Not just 2004, but 2006 were great for two main reasons.  First, and obvioulsy the most important, points a game.  Second is the takeaways.  I don't know who or how someone would track such a thing, but it just seemed like whenever there was a crucual point in the game, someone would always come up big with  a strip sack, a pick or a crushing hit to jar the ball lose after a catch.   They not only forced those fumbles, but recovered a lot of them.  I think ripping or crushing the ball out an opponent can be a bit demoralizing.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    Waldorf is just a paid employee of the NY Times (hence the moniker waldorf) sent here to incite a lot of replies and clicks so this site looks better for the advertizers. Lets just cut him a break, he's only doing his job.
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    anything less than a superbowl is an off year...but now that you have reached that mantle you may "gain" some understanding...if you are lucky enough to repeat you will "have" understanding and if by chance you muster multiple championships that this board represents...... you "can" swagger...your lucky the chargers and the fish made that collosal mistake and good fortune fell in your lap...   enjoy the oil...

    there qb didnt blog to the world that they will be visiting the white house in february of next year....
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : Although it's a cute stat, third down efficiency is a bit overratted.  You can have a great third down efficiency and still give up big plays on first and second down.  I disagree with you about those Pats Ds.  Not just 2004, but 2006 were great for two main reasons.  First, and obvioulsy the most important, points a game.  Second is the takeaways.  I don't know who or how someone would track such a thing, but it just seemed like whenever there was a crucual point in the game, someone would always come up big with  a strip sack, a pick or a crushing hit to jar the ball lose after a catch.   They not only forced those fumbles, but recovered a lot of them.  I think ripping or crushing the ball out an opponent can be a bit demoralizing.
    Posted by waldorff


    That's Rich..No matter what he says you can find an argument why the Pats Sukkk.
    I have any easy solution as to your status.

    When you went to school, did you ride in on a short bus and sit right behind the driver? If so I apologize. If not your loser troll and should start another profile and lay low for a week. UD
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : so in reference to your point of younger fans...your stating that you were a patriot fan in the days of gino cappaletti and babe parilli? pats build through the draft...but they also sign FA'S everyyear  thats no secret or revelation...the difference is they are not of the high priced, break the bank variety... adalieus thomas was the exception, not the rule.. a mistake .and he proved why that is not the way to go... the jests on the otherhand dont adhere to that rule.so there is a difference ..but this has digressed from your original point which you still have not been able to adequately prove...while trying to butress your weak arguement by reverting to childish insinuation jests trolls should do better...
    Posted by jcour382


    What weak argument?  That  I think that the team that lead the league in not giving up points had a great D?    So you must think that the 2007 Pats didn't have a great offense. RIGHT?
    How and where a team puts it's resources is irrelevant.  The salary cap is the great equalizer. Without going over the rosters, I think the Jets have as much home grown talent as we do. Without a doubt they have more top notch homegrown talent.  We do not have a CB as good as Revis, we do not have a LB as good as Harris, the jury is still out, but Greene looks better than Maroney, Ferguson, Mangold.  We have Brady, Wilfork, but it really doesn't matter how you build the team.  Hopefully, in two years that will all change.  If 5 or 6 guys from the last two drafts become very good players and 1 of the 2 upcoming 1st rounders is great player.  Again, our best years were full of great FA pick ups.  Plus, the Pats have chosen not to pay for the majority of our better drafted players after their rookie contracts.  We gave Springs a bunch of money, AD, Bodden, Moss - there is no difference.  Without looking at the numbers, I don't think we come as close to cap as many teams do. I don't think that is necessarily a good thing.  I'd like to see another big FA pick up.   
     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : Don't take this personally, but you are strange. Here you are babbling about how great NY is and you don't remember the Colts putting in a B team against the Jets in the 3rd quarter?
    Posted by russgriswold


    I don't think NY was a great team.  I thnk they had a great D.  I actually didn't watch that game. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from waldorff. Show waldorff's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : That's Rich..No matter what he says you can find an argument why the Pats Sukkk. I have any easy solution as to your status. When you went to school, did you ride in on a short bus and sit right behind the driver? If so I apologize. If not your loser troll and should start another profile and lay low for a week. UD
    Posted by Huggybear999


    So who's weak argument is backed up by insults?  You are the one that is saying the Pats D's were not great when they clearly were.  You must be a troll then.  That's seems to be your logic.   How dare you say that the Pats D was not great in 2004 and 2006.  What kind of loser fan are you?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:
    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : What weak argument?  That  I think that the team that lead the league in not giving up points had a great D?    So you must think that the 2007 Pats didn't have a great offense. RIGHT? How and where a team puts it's resources is irrelevant.  The salary cap is the great equalizer. Without going over the rosters, I think the Jets have as much home grown talent as we do. Without a doubt they have more top notch homegrown talent.  We do not have a CB as good as Revis, we do not have a LB as good as Harris, the jury is still out, but Greene looks better than Maroney, Ferguson, Mangold.  We have Brady, Wilfork, but it really doesn't matter how you build the team.  Hopefully, in two years that will all change.  If 5 or 6 guys from the last two drafts become very good players and 1 of the 2 upcoming 1st rounders is great player.  Again, our best years were full of great FA pick ups.  Plus, the Pats have chosen not to pay for the majority of our better drafted players after their rookie contracts.  We gave Springs a bunch of money, AD, Bodden, Moss - there is no difference.  Without looking at the numbers, I don't think we come as close to cap as many teams do. I don't think that is necessarily a good thing.  I'd like to see another big FA pick up.   
    Posted by waldorff


    i think the pats proved they were definately a great team over that period...no doubt...and obviously that offense was pretty good..set some records fun to watch. but we did not win the championship......so there you have it...

    in regard to us not paying our talent we drafted thats blatently incorrect and its a waste of time to go down the list... as far as the jets talent... they have some good players but so did washington...so did minnesota so did sandiego... point made... lets see who wins this year

    now when you make a comment that they dont spend to the cap...that makes you sound silly... every team spends to the cap ...the diffrence is in bonus money... but I would bet we are up their in the top 10 of total payroll...

    so how great is the jests defense??


     
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    Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House:

    In Response to Re: Jets Scoping Out the White House : So who's weak argument is backed up by insults?  You are the one that is saying the Pats D's were not great when they clearly were.  You must be a troll then.  That's seems to be your logic.   How dare you say that the Pats D was not great in 2004 and 2006.  What kind of loser fan are you?
    Posted by waldorff


    you seem to be flustered....and disoriented somewhat...

     
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