Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    .. and the Broncos start a long downward spiral.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Well, who else is he going to start? Simms? Remember, he's a QB guru. He couldv'e made Ryan Leaf the greatest player ever. I'm sure of it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]Well, who else is he going to start? Simms? Remember, he's a QB guru. He couldv'e made Ryan Leaf the greatest player ever. I'm sure of it.
    Posted by Dead54[/QUOTE]

    He could have started Cutler...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Starting Cutler makes too much sense. The great QB guru (As he is now to be called) can only use unknown and  presumed bad quarterbacks.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I may be in the minority, but I think dumping Cutler was a smart move by Josh. I'm not claiming he s u c k s like people such as JBolt do, but I don't think he's a good fit in McDaniels' offense. Kyle Orton may not have put up Manning-like numbers in Chicago, but he played smart. Now he has weapons like Marshall and Royal, that are far superior to anyone the Bears have had in years. Cutler is a gunslinger, and though he put up huge numbers, he also made a lot of critical mistakes. There is also the way he whined this offseason, and refused to even sit down with Josh and try to work the situation out. Denver signed a slew of RBs this winter, plus used their first pick on one. I think if the Broncos falter this season it will not be because of the offense. If they can fix the defensive problems I believe they have a good chance of dethroning the Chargers. Of course, that's a huge "if"! I don't know about Josh being able to make Ryan Leaf into a good QB, though. It seems to me his biggest problem was in between the ears, and his attitude. Exactly the same reasons McDaniels let Cutler go to Chicago.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    That is interesting....... McDaniels never had to work with a QB with an attitude problem. The thing I never understood is why a good offensive team with a bad defense such as the Broncos would get a coach who is offensive minded. It just doesn't make sense.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]I may be in the minority, but I think dumping Cutler was a smart move by Josh. I'm not claiming he s u c k s like people such as JBolt do, but I don't think he's a good fit in McDaniels' offense. Kyle Orton may not have put up Manning-like numbers in Chicago, but he played smart. Now he has weapons like Marshall and Royal, that are far superior to anyone the Bears have had in years. Cutler is a gunslinger, and though he put up huge numbers, he also made a lot of critical mistakes. There is also the way he whined this offseason, and refused to even sit down with Josh and try to work the situation out. Denver signed a slew of RBs this winter, plus used their first pick on one. I think if the Broncos falter this season it will not be because of the offense. If they can fix the defensive problems I believe they have a good chance of dethroning the Chargers. Of course, that's a huge "if"! I don't know about Josh being able to make Ryan Leaf into a good QB, though. It seems to me his biggest problem was in between the ears, and his attitude. Exactly the same reasons McDaniels let Cutler go to Chicago.
    Posted by bubthegrub2[/QUOTE]

    Bub,
    Cutler is the best of the suckin' Qb's. Josh will run to set up the pass the first year. Neither QB will ever win a SB, nor play in one. Next.

    While Cutler has never had a winning season in the pro's, Orton has never had a losing season. yet that is.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CutlJa00.htm
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Orton also had the good fortune of playing on a team that had a good enough defense to carry REX GROSSMAN to a super bowl. In one game that year, he had a QB rating of 0! Sure they are ancient but their defense is still better than the Broncos. The Bears should make the playoffs this year. the Broncos won't, because the Chargers are too good for them, especially with no defense.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I agree with you bub.

    I think Cutler took one look at McD's playbook and realized his rocket arm wasn't going to cover up for his lack of understanding. I mean the guy is supposedly a diabetic and he's still out drinking and partying? Not too smart.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Cutler is the best of the suckin' Qb's. Josh will run to set up the pass the first year. Neither QB will ever win a SB, nor play in one. Next.

    I agree with one point, they will run to set up the pass. But with the WR crew they have Orton will get his chance to toss it. And I won't go as far as to classify Cutler as "suckin"...at least not yet. He needs to get his head out of his a s s and take some coaching. He has the physical ability. We'll see if he can turn his attitude around. I also won't predict who will or will not play in a SB. Guys like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, and Rex Grossman got to one. If your team is solid enough it's still a possibility.

    The Bears should make the playoffs this year. the Broncos won't, because the Chargers are too good for them, especially with no defense.

    I wouldn't count Denver out of the playoff race just yet. If their defense doesn't vastly improve you are correct. But then again, your Chargers' defense also s u c k e d last season. Merriman should be a huge factor, but he's coming off a major injury...something you claim may well thwart Brady from being the same player he was before.

    I think Cutler took one look at McD's playbook and realized his rocket arm wasn't going to cover up for his lack of understanding.

    I'm thinking the same thing. Shanahan babied him and let him pretty much ad lib. Even if he did "get" the playbook, I'm sure he knew Josh wouldn't give him the liberty to freelance as much as he'd like to. At least not until he'd proved himself like Tom Brady did. The other thing which I believe was a consideration was his contract status. Had he tanked in 09 he'd lose a lot of money either re-signing or as a FA. He most likely felt he would stand a better chance moving on after his impressive stats from last season.



     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Since I'm a Pats fan living in Charger country, anything that will make the Chargers fans run around with their heads hung low will make me happy.  I hope the Broncos do well this year.  I will not hold my breath waiting on McDaniels to do that however.  I'm not a big fan of McDaniels.  I'm not sure I know why, but I just feel like he'll be the second coming of Cam Cameron as a head coach.  I don't say that in the sense that Mac will have a one win season, but rather in the sense that Cam just wasn't the type of leader and manager that is required of a good head coach.   Mac has a bright future ahead of him, but I'm not sure he'll be one of those young new coaches that gets it right on his first attempt.  I get a feeling he's in for a long year.  Heck, even BB had a bad time with his first opportunity.

    I think Mac's problem will not be the loss of Cutler, but rather the management of the team as a whole.  He made some awkward remarks during the Cutler saga, and had a weird draft.  I think that if the Broncos struggle this year, it will not be because of Orton.  I'll be surprised if Cutler has the same success in Chicago.  He needs to grow up before he can be great.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

     The Bears should make the playoffs this year. the Broncos won't, because the Chargers are too good for them, especially with no defense. I wouldn't count Denver out of the playoff race just yet. If their defense doesn't vastly improve you are correct. But then again, your Chargers' defense also s u c k e d last season. Merriman should be a huge factor, but he's coming off a major injury...something you claim may well thwart Brady from being the same player he was before.
    Posted by bubthegrub2[/QUOTE]

    I'm not a chargers fan, I'm a Pats fan, but the Charhgers are the best team in the AFC West. I don't deny the truth. The Broncos D doesn't seem like it will be improved, because let's look at the D....

    Dumervil is the only good lineman, and hes possibly now a LB. D.J. WIlliams is always hurt, it seems. And Chump Bailey..... The most overated player in the NBFL the last 2 years, getting by purely on name despite playing terribly. Dawkins is ancient and if PHILLY didn't want him.........
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Jay Cutler has average intelligence.  He will never stop making bad reads.  Orton is known to be brainy and tall, and will get better.  A stronger arm will come with practice.  Just ask Tom Brady.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I think SD fans are going to be very shocked when they dont run away with teh div this season. I can deffently see it playing it out in McDanials favor. Orton is a smart hard working QB who knows nothing is given everything is earned and Jay Cutler is not the same kind of person or player. The Bronco's will win with Orton this season. They wont win the whole thing but they wont be a push over either.

    "Neither QB will ever win a SB, nor play in one."

    Funny coming from a fan of a team that has never won a title in its entire history.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Funny coming from a fan of a team that has never won a title in its entire history.    

    Maybe not so funny, though. At least being a Chargers fan he is well educated on how not to win a SB! What can you say about someone who claims Rodney Harrison s u c k e d while in SD? Too much sun from hanging out at OB (and maybe too much of other things, too) has fried the brains of Chargers fans!!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I may be in the minority, but I think dumping Cutler was a smart move by Josh.
    I'm not claiming he s u c k s like people such as JBolt do, but I don't think he's a good fit in McDaniels' offense.

    So are you suggesting this outcome was by design from the beginning?

    Kyle Orton may not have put up Manning-like numbers in Chicago, but he played smart.

    He didn't even put up Cutler like numbers.  It wasn't until the Bears gave Rex Grossman umpteen opportunities to fail that Orton got the starting job.  That is not a ringing endorsement.  That said, Orton played admirably and I think he could be a good QB, but I think it is shortsighted to claim him to be bette than Cutler at this time.   

    Now he has weapons like Marshall and Royal, that are far superior to anyone the Bears have had in years.

    Agreed, but sometimes the QB makes the receivers better, too.

    Cutler is a gunslinger, and though he put up huge numbers, he also made a lot of critical mistakes.

    So you are going to discount his huge numbers.  Were Cutler's critical mistakes of his own accord or were they situational (Broncos down with little time left and throws an int).  

    There is also the way he whined this offseason, and refused to even sit down with Josh and try to work the situation out.

    Of course we absolve the coach for lying to Cutler. 

    Denver signed a slew of RBs this winter, plus used their first pick on one. I think if the Broncos falter this season it will not be because of the offense.

    Which begs the question, would the Bronco's have failed offensively with Cutler as QB?  Lets be honest here, the Bronco's had a serious need for Defense.  they brought in a slew of RB's, so why pick another in the first?  Even the owner questioned this!

    If they can fix the defensive problems I believe they have a good chance of dethroning the Chargers. Of course, that's a huge "if"! I don't know about Josh being able to make Ryan Leaf into a good QB, though. It seems to me his biggest problem was in between the ears, and his attitude. Exactly the same reasons McDaniels let Cutler go to Chicago

    There is not another coach the league who made poorer offseason decisions than McDaniels.  The good thing for him is that they were made so early that he has had an entire offseason to get himself out of the hole he dug.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    So are you suggesting this outcome was by design from the beginning?
     
    I'm not claiming it, but it may very well be that Josh wished for a QB change. I suppose we'll never know for sure.

    Agreed, but sometimes the QB makes the receivers better, too.

    That is true, but I believe guys like Royal and Marshall will do well with any decent QB. In any case they are still far superior to anything Chicago has.

    So you are going to discount his huge numbers.  Were Cutler's critical mistakes of his own accord or were they situational (Broncos down with little time left and throws an int).  

    I'm not discounting anything. It is what it is. Sure, there were times when mistakes were made in "desperation", but I suppose my main point was simply Cutler's style, which reminds me a lot of Brett Favre.

    Of course we absolve the coach for lying to Cutler.

    This accusation keeps coming up from Cutler's supporters. I'm not clear on exactly what "lies" you are talking about. As neither you or I were privy to their conversations, anything is speculation. Although I do remember a quote from McDaniels about it being his job to "do what is best for the team". In any case, I never heard him claim he initiated any trade talks with regards to obtaining Cassel (which is what I'm assuming you're talking about when you say "lying"). After that Cutler refused to meet with him and referred all his dealings to his agent. And even if he did make some statement to Cutler, it's not against the law to change your mind. Many people make verbal "commitments" then withdraw when better opportunities arise.

    Which begs the question, would the Bronco's have failed offensively with Cutler as QB?  Lets be honest here, the Bronco's had a serious need for Defense.  they brought in a slew of RB's, so why pick another in the first?  Even the owner questioned this!

    I never stated the Broncos would have "failed" had they kept Cutler. Merely that I believe he and Josh may have been at odds with each other. I also stated that Denver would need a serious improvement on defense to win, regardless of who the QB was. If I had to guess, I'd say they took Moreno at 12 because they thought he was the best value at a position of need. After last season I don't doubt the FA signings were to insure depth and to shield against injuries. I hadn't heard anything about Bowlen "questioning" the pick, but I don't read every article (and none from ESPN). I'm also not sure who all has a hand in picking for the Broncos. I'm sure it's not solely up to Josh, and there is a GM somewhere who was involved.

    There is not another coach the league who made poorer offseason decisions than McDaniels.  The good thing for him is that they were made so early that he has had an entire offseason to get himself out of the hole he dug.

    That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Personally, I disagree. They did have a lot of turnover up in Denver. Although the Cutler for Orton is the most controversial. But don't forget they also got a lot of picks in return. Time will tell if these decisions (and picks) are good or not. But I'm sticking with my opinion that trading Cutler was a positive...at least as far as McDaniels is concerned. Whether he turns out to be another Manning or another Grossman it's still not good to have a rift between QB and HC. And numbers aside, Cutler has not proven himself to be what I'd consider a "franchise" QB. In this league it's all about winning, and he has yet to show that he can do it consistently. I concede that the defense didn't give him much help, but you're always claiming the Colts defense to be subpar, yet Peyton manages to guide them to the postseason year after year. Cutler cannot "carry" a team, as you point out in those situations he's made critical mistakes. Maybe he can overcome this and go on to have a good (or great) career. But I doubt he'd be able to do so in Josh's "system", which relies on more conservative and disciplined play out of the QB. I expect Cutler to do better in Chicago than he would have had he remained in Denver. At least if they get him some good WRs to throw to!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    To nobody in particular...

    Kyle Orton's best season (last season) his completion percentage was a shade under 59%.  The classic example of a QB of who was just barely good enough was Trent Dilfer and he averaged 60%, he also had the league's (historically) best defense in Baltimore; Denver has nothing like that. 

    Chicago has had a good defense and good overall team in the past few years, just a QB away from doing real damage, if they continue to run the ball well, they now have the pieces to make a decent run at a title.  Cutler has the talent he just needs to be reigned in with a strong running game, solid defense and a coach who won't kiss his backside.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Cutler has the talent he just needs to be reigned in with a strong running game, solid defense and a coach who won't kiss his backside.


    I agree 100%. But he would have had that in Denver (at least the coach and running game), and he refused to deal with McDaniels. He needs to change his attitude. I'm also not buying those who claim he was "disrespected" or "lied to". Even Joe Montana was traded, why should he feel himself exempt? He certainly could develop into a top QB in the league. But he needs to realize that he's part of a team, and not someone "special". I don't know that he will get the strong coaching he needs in Chicago. But we shall see.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I am willing to say this was a failure on both sides.  Cutler is too arrogant and believes he is more than just another player.  Mcdaniels is too arrogant and believes that he turned Matt Cassel into a star, so he can do it with anyone.  (by the way - I don't agree that 18-1 to 11-5 is a success for a 4 year back up.)

    Both have the chance to prove themselves right.  I have to say, however, McDaniels has more pressure on him than Cutler.  He wanted HIS team and now hes got it by ditching one of the best young QB's in the league. 

    Not dissimilar to Belichick's stint in Cleveland.  But Belichick learned his lesson on his second go around.  In my opinion, too bad McDaniels chose not to use history as a guide but rather find out for himself. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    It usually happens this way, coaches don't fare well in their first HC position. Unless they take over a team that is top tier (and it helps if they're promoted from within), there's usually an adjustment period. I guess that despite history, sometimes you need to learn things the hard way!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    That or we will all learn the hard way that McDanials knows what he is doing. I dont think his team will be great this season but they wont be the Lions. And Underdogg your last post is such a cop out, you dont see 1-5 as a success story for the Pats because they went 18-1 the year before? thats you just trying to find anyway you can to take away from us and its a cop out. Cassel had not started a game since high school and he took a team to 11-5 and just barely missed the playoffs and that is a success story by anyone elses standards except for stupid fans who let their own feelings get in the way. That is such a cop out underdogg you just dont want to admit that the Pats can be successful with or without Brady or that Belichick is as good as he is and its a cop out.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]It usually happens this way, coaches don't fare well in their first HC position. Unless they take over a team that is top tier (and it helps if they're promoted from within), there's usually an adjustment period. I guess that despite history, sometimes you need to learn things the hard way!
    Posted by bubthegrub2[/QUOTE]

    Charlie Weiss, Romeo Crennel, and Eric Mangini. All coaching failres (except for one good Weiss and Mangini year). All former Patriot assistants. I don't understand why they all keep thinking they can be a head coach. They all overestimate themselves and underestimate the skill of their players and the other coaches in the Patriots organization that help them out.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Dead what do you expect them to do? Turn down job oppertunitys? Just say hey guys sorry you think i am so good cause im not and i would rather stay in NE? Charlie Weiss was given the chance to be the head coach of teh college he went to as a young man who would turn that down? Romeo did the same thing Belichick did back when Bil was with the Giants, he was a great DC who wanted to take a shot at getting out parcells shadow and run his own team and that what Romeo did and who can blame him? Romeo is in his 60's and he wanted to take a shot at being a NFL head coach before it was too late and i dont think he was a bad head coach he just had rotton luck if he was coaching teh bengles he would still have a job just ask Marvin Lewis who has had 4 straight losing seasons but still has a job. And i wont make an argument for Mangini, he was wrong to leave and it showed as he was a bad head coach. He had one years under his belt as a DC and all of a sudden he is a head coach? Please... I agree with you about mangini he thought he wa better then he is and he stabbed his mentor in the back to try and make a name for himself. McDanials on the other hand deserved a shot and he got one and he took it and no one can bame him for taking a shot. You act like people should just turn down great job oppertunitys and say hey we s uck its all Belichick and that is just stupid no person would do that.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]That or we will all learn the hard way that McDanials knows what he is doing. I dont think his team will be great this season but they wont be the Lions. And Underdogg your last post is such a cop out, you dont see 1-5 as a success story for the Pats because they went 18-1 the year before? thats you just trying to find anyway you can to take away from us and its a cop out. Cassel had not started a game since high school and he took a team to 11-5 and just barely missed the playoffs and that is a success story by anyone elses standards except for stupid fans who let their own feelings get in the way. That is such a cop out underdogg you just dont want to admit that the Pats can be successful with or without Brady or that Belichick is as good as he is and its a cop out.
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]

    Tas - cop out? 

    I don't see 11-5 from 18-1 a success.  In 07 - NE killed nearly every offensive record known to man.  In 08, they failed to make the playoffs with the same team except for Tom Brady.  The rest of the patriots team (except maybe their receivers - and they were healthy) are generally interchangable parts.  If one goes down another comes in.  At least that is the mantra I have heard for years on this site when citing examples of the pats front office and coaching brilliance. 

    Additionally, 08 provided an easier than expected schedule.  AFC East - down; AFC West - Down; NFC West - Down. 

    So that leaves Cassel as the primary reason for the pats failure to make the playoffs.   I could give 2 shts about the fact that he had not started since high school.  Its a great story, but that is it.  This is professional football and feel good stories don't earn you a spot on the team (at least not in NE - another common pats mantra).  The player is either capable or not (and worth the contract) and if not, the player will be removed and replaced. 

    Cassel got 4 years of evaluation by the pats staff and was determined to be capable.  Is he Tom Brady - no (not even close).  But with all of the other world beaters around him, 4 years of bench study under his belt, and easy schedule by general standards, 2008 was his best opportunity to succeed.  The pats failed to make the playoffs vs a team that in 07 was 1-15.  Matt Cassel is not that good. 

    I may eat my words later, but this is how I see this now and it is completely objective. 
     
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