Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]Dead what do you expect them to do? Turn down job oppertunitys? Just say hey guys sorry you think i am so good cause im not and i would rather stay in NE? Charlie Weiss was given the chance to be the head coach of teh college he went to as a young man who would turn that down? Romeo did the same thing Belichick did back when Bil was with the Giants, he was a great DC who wanted to take a shot at getting out parcells shadow and run his own team and that what Romeo did and who can blame him? Romeo is in his 60's and he wanted to take a shot at being a NFL head coach before it was too late and i dont think he was a bad head coach he just had rotton luck if he was coaching teh bengles he would still have a job just ask Marvin Lewis who has had 4 straight losing seasons but still has a job. And i wont make an argument for Mangini, he was wrong to leave and it showed as he was a bad head coach. He had one years under his belt as a DC and all of a sudden he is a head coach? Please... I agree with you about mangini he thought he wa better then he is and he stabbed his mentor in the back to try and make a name for himself. McDanials on the other hand deserved a shot and he got one and he took it and no one can bame him for taking a shot. You act like people should just turn down great job oppertunitys and say hey we s uck its all Belichick and that is just stupid no person would do that.
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]

    I messed up there. I don't fault any of the three for what they did. I didn't mean to make it sound like I did. McDaniels though... I won't judge yet, he hasn't even coached a game yet, but I feel he might do the worst of all of them. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    "So that leaves Cassel as the primary reason for the pats failure to make the playoffs."

    We didn't make the playoffs because of bad defense and dropped passes. Losing Harrison and Thomas killed us. Cassel was great considering he was thrown in there to replace the best QB in the NFL. Morris also was injured which left us with an unreliable running game.
    Also, I don't think Mangini was fired because of his record. 
    There's a personality problem in there somewhere.
    My sympathies to Browns fans.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Underdogg you try and make it sound liek Brady was our only guy on IR but we lost Rodney Harrison and Adalius Thomas to IR and our starting running back and P.Woods who was Adalius back so we didnt even have a back up for him at the time. So we got very b anged up along the way and still won 11 games. We didnt just lose Brady we lost a bunch of people.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]" So that leaves Cassel as the primary reason for the pats failure to make the playoffs." We didn't make the playoffs because of bad defense and dropped passes. Losing Harrison and Thomas killed us. Cassel was great considering he was thrown in there to replace the best QB in the NFL. Morris also was injured which left us with an unreliable running game. Also, I don't think Mangini was fired because of his record.  There's a personality problem in there somewhere. My sympathies to Browns fans.
    Posted by Yapple[/QUOTE]

    Don't feel sorry for the Browns fans.... I live in Ohio and they all think he will be the greatest ever. They don't listen to me when I try to remind them about the last Pats D coordinater who became their coach. But, being Browns fans they don't care.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Tas - So many here liked to discount the colts method of player contracting which, as they said, diluted the depth of the colts causing significant performance issues when starters went down.  By contrast, the mighty pats did not suffer in the same way because they were better at contracting which meant they could employ more quality players and any starter who went down (except for Brady and the receivers {my opinion}) could be simply replaced. 

    So now I you and yapple bring up injuries beyond Brady as the reason for not making the playoffs.  What happened to the depth?  You can't have it both ways. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I did not say injurys are the reason I just said you were downplaying how many people were on IR. You made it sound liek Brady was teh only loss we had and that is not true. In the end this is pointless, if you really think that last year was a let down for the Pats then that is what you think. I would think the fact that fans of teh Pats dont look at it that way might give you a hint that no one else thinks the way you do but i guess not. I guess the only way you will ever get it is if manning goes down and you have to play with a back up. So lets hope for that huh?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dead54. Show Dead54's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]
    Posted by prairiemike[/QUOTE]

    It appears two Bears want to pull Mannings pants off.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]Underdogg you try and make it sound liek Brady was our only guy on IR but we lost Rodney Harrison and Adalius Thomas to IR and our starting running back and P.Woods who was Adalius back so we didnt even have a back up for him at the time. So we got very b anged up along the way and still won 11 games. We didnt just lose Brady we lost a bunch of people.
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]

    No - I am saying the pats fan mantra is that it does not matter who is hurt on your team.  The pats personnel and contract philosophy allows your team to simply plug and play when someone is hurt without a letdown in performance.  This cannot obviously be  applied to Brady, but otherwise that is exactly how pats fans have called it when defining your superiority. 

    This means that the pats failure to make the playoffs with an otherwise easy schedule is all on Matt Cassel.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ritchie-az. Show Ritchie-az's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I think it is so funny when people say Cutler will do great in Chicago and Orton will fail in Denver.

    First, the Bears have one of the worst group of wide receivers ever assembled. In order to have any kind of passing success, the running backs and tight ends will have to be heavily utilized (which is exactly what Orton did last season). Unfortunately for Cutler, that is something he has really struggled with.

    Second, the Bears offensive line is not good at protecting the quarterback. Orton was constantly pressured and sacked last season. (Cutler was rarely sacked last year in Denver).

    Third, Soldier's Field is the most inhospitable field for passing in the winter in the entire NFL. That is why Chicago has always emphisized the run on offense and run stopping on defense. You can't win in Chicago in December and January otherwise.

    Fourth, the Bears defense was below average last year, and they haven't done much to improve it.

    Fifth, what has Cutler ever done to deserve the credit so many would give him? He's never had a winning season (not since High School). He's not proven to be particularly smart. He's constantly thowing interceptions at the absolute worst times. Yes, he has a strong arm, but so have many other quarterbacks that were nothing special. And he has an attitude problem to go with it. Sounds like another "strong armed" QB named Jeff George. Only Cutler might not even by THAT good.

    Orton, on the other hand, is going into a very good situation. The Bronco's have one of the best group of wide receivers, a deep and talented group of running backs, a top-notch offensive line, and a coach who knows how to take full advatage of those things. Orton is smart, accurate (the 59% completion percentage is skewed by the numberous catchable passes not caught by his receivers), hard working, and doesn't make many mistakes. I'm not saying he's the next great QB, but I do believe he's a good fit in a very talented offense. And they improved the defense (which still has a ways to go).

    My prediction is that Orton sees a playoff appearance in Denver before Cutler does in Chicago, and Orton will make the Pro Bowl before Cutler is asked back.

    In fact, with Chicago's reputation as a graveyard for QBs, Cutler may not see a Pro Bowl again. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rimfire. Show Rimfire's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]I think it is so funny when people say Cutler will do great in Chicago and Orton will fail in Denver. First, the Bears have one of the worst group of wide receivers ever assembled. In order to have any kind of passing success, the running backs and tight ends will have to be heavily utilized (which is exactly what Orton did last season). Unfortunately for Cutler, that is something he has really struggled with. Second, the Bears offensive line is not good at protecting the quarterback. Orton was constantly pressured and sacked last season. (Cutler was rarely sacked last year in Denver). Third, Soldier's Field is the most inhospitable field for passing in the winter in the entire NFL. That is why Chicago has always emphisized the run on offense and run stopping on defense. You can't win in Chicago in December and January otherwise. Fourth, the Bears defense was below average last year, and they haven't done much to improve it. Fifth, what has Cutler ever done to deserve the credit so many would give him? He's never had a winning season (not since High School). He's not proven to be particularly smart. He's constantly thowing interceptions at the absolute worst times. Yes, he has a strong arm, but so have many other quarterbacks that were nothing special. And he has an attitude problem to go with it. Sounds like another "strong armed" QB named Jeff George. Only Cutler might not even by THAT good. Orton, on the other hand, is going into a very good situation. The Bronco's have one of the best group of wide receivers, a deep and talented group of running backs, a top-notch offensive line, and a coach who knows how to take full advatage of those things. Orton is smart, accurate (the 59% completion percentage is skewed by the numberous catchable passes not caught by his receivers), hard working, and doesn't make many mistakes. I'm not saying he's the next great QB, but I do believe he's a good fit in a very talented offense. And they improved the defense (which still has a ways to go). My prediction is that Orton sees a playoff appearance in Denver before Cutler does in Chicago, and Orton will make the Pro Bowl before Cutler is asked back. In fact, with Chicago's reputation as a graveyard for QBs, Cutler may not see a Pro Bowl again. 
    Posted by Ritchie_az[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rimfire. Show Rimfire's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]
    Posted by Rimfire[/QUOTE]

    I think AZ made some very good points about Cutler's potential for success (or lack thereof) in Chicago.  He does have a history of making poor decisions under pressure and given Chicago's O-line and the weather differential-especially late in the season when Cutler hasn't been at his best anyway, he may find it a lot more difficult to play up to the standard he allegedy showed last year in Denver.  I haven't seen much of Orton, but he does sound (as others have pointed out) a better fit for the kind of offense McDaniels is likely to run in Denver this year.  Personally, I think one of the more interesting things to watch in the NFL this year will be how Cassel does in KC.  He won't have anything like the talent level around him that he ahd with teh Pats, but the fact that he appeared to improve with every game as the year went on, seems like a good sign to me for the KC fans.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]
    Posted by prairiemike[/QUOTE]


    Great Pic mike - as you see manning is still standing.  I am sure Marv or reggie is wide open.  On the other hand, so is kenton keith and he would find a way to drop a helium filled balloon.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from thejoshuatree28. Show thejoshuatree28's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    J. Cutler is like a younger version of Farve, except farve was a lot better. Cutler makes to many poor throws and forces the ball, and with the group of recivers and TE he has last year he shouldnt of had to do that at all, Farve at least would make semi intelligent throws. But one thing we do have to consider is Cutler never had any semblance of a running game in Denver, something he will have in Chicago, that can really help a quarterback to stop making dumb throws. I'm sure you all know this but denver went through 7 running backs last year, that doesnt scream consistant run game. I'm not a cutler fan in the least bit, but I like the bears as a team, after the Pats of course, so maybe we can see him succeed but, until the bears get recivers that well can recive, it will force him to use Forte and Olsen, and maybe make him a more well rounded QB.


    As for Orton, he looked really really good last year till he got hurt, and then he look alright. He was thriving behind a strong run game and those dink and dunk throws that JMC likes to coordinate, I think he will have a fine year in denver, denver reciving corp is one of the top 3 in the league i would say (NE and Arizona have better ones in my opinion) not to mention Knowshon Moreno is a good running back fits the scheme in denver, and he could really solidify the ground attack. Denvers D is what is going to cause them to fail, it didnt really help that JMC or whoever was drafting didnt take good prospects, for instance they're switching to the 3-4 in denver a big part of that is the nose tackle, BJ raji is off the bored so he took Moreno, im ok with that it helps solidify the run game, then at 18 he took ayers ( i dont like the pick there were better people avalible than a guy that started for one year and under achived every other) but at 37 he took alphonso smith, who is a good Cb dont get me wrong, but Ron Brace was on the board still, comeon he is a prototypical nose tackle. But hey we got him so cant complain about teams debacling themselves. Alright I think I'm done for now
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]No - I am saying the pats fan mantra is that it does not matter who is hurt on your team.  The pats personnel and contract philosophy allows your team to simply plug and play when someone is hurt without a letdown in performance.  This cannot obviously be  applied to Brady, but otherwise that is exactly how pats fans have called it when defining your superiority.  This means that the pats failure to make the playoffs with an otherwise easy schedule is all on Matt Cassel.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    While you have a point (to a degree) about the way NE obtains depth, with a 53 man roster NO team could have that many quality backups! You seem to forget the sheer numbers of season ending injuries we had last season. I'm wondering how many games your Colts would have won had Peyton been lost in week one, Freeney been on IR, Addai lost, Bob Sanders miss half the season, etc. I doubt it would be in double digits, no matter who was on the schedule! I'm also sure in that scenario you would be calling us idiots were we to suggest Sorgi be blamed totally for the lack of production! While Cassel was no Brady, you only have to look at his improvement over the season to see he was not the cause for missing the playoffs! In the Patriots' five losses, only one (Pittsburgh) can truly be laid at Cassel's door. Miami and SD both scored at least 30 points (though Cassel did not exactly play well in SD). The Indy game was close, and may well have been different sans the Thomas penalty late in the game. And the Jests win in OT must fall on the defense, who could not stop a 3rd and long at the end. Cassel actually had his best game, and gave them a "second life" by coming back in the 4th quarter! So to blame NE's "failure" (although 11-5 teams have always made the playoffs with the exception of Denver back in the 80s) on Cassel is absurd. You are always crying about how it's unfair to blame Peyton for the Colts' failures, yet you do the same thing about Cassel! And Matt's performance after Thanksgiving was well above anything Peyton has shown in January. Please stop being so obtuse, we all know you cannot be as ignorant as you sound in this argument. Look at the game stats from last season and it should be obvious that Cassel is not to blame for the five game "dropoff" in the records. Besides, how could ANY team, however good, hope to compare to a 16-0 season?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Cassel is fine Bub, but you guys want to provide him hero status, and I am telling you he is not worthy of it. 

    to my claims that Manning is not responsible for the colts failures, I am always told that I am full of it.  so all I am doing is applying the same logic to Cassel that pats fans have applied to Manning including the fact that poor defenses or injuries are no excuse. 

    I may be acting obtuse, but it is nothing less than I receive when defending my side. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ritchie-az. Show Ritchie-az's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    "But one thing we do have to consider is Cutler never had any semblance of a running game in Denver"

    Denver was 12th in rushing yards last season (tied for second with 4.8 yards per carry average).

    The Bears? 24th most rushing yards (3.9 ypc).

    Cutler will only wish he had Denver's ground game to help him.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    interesting that all the cutler bashing began the moment a pat lifer tried to undermine him.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ritchie-az. Show Ritchie-az's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I haven't liked Cutler for a couple seasons. It started well before Josh got there.

    And it escelated when he acted like a Prima Donna.

    The guy is a dirt bag, and I wish him all the sacks on a frozen Soldier's Field that he can possibly get.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    interesting that all you haters started sticking up for Cutler as soon as "Pat lifer" got to Denver. If Dungy tried to get Cassel the way McDanials did you would have his back all the way but because it was an ex Pat all of a sudden you have Cutlers back? Give me a break. Just another example of people looking for anyways to bash on the Pats. McDanials did what he thought was best for his team and then he tried like h ell to fix his mistake and cutler wouldnt hear it, he acted like a little kid and he was traded for dissrespecting his owner. he is a punk.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from thejoshuatree28. Show thejoshuatree28's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]"But one thing we do have to consider is Cutler never had any semblance of a running game in Denver" Denver was 12th in rushing yards last season (tied for second with 4.8 yards per carry average). The Bears? 24th most rushing yards (3.9 ypc). Cutler will only wish he had Denver's ground game to help him.
    Posted by Ritchie_az[/QUOTE]

    I know rankings but I think rankings can be overrated and this is one of those cases the reason that Denver had an apperance of a strong run game is because they had a air attack. When team would play against chicago they would have 8 9 men in the box, because chicago's recivers are awful
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    [QUOTE]interesting that all the cutler bashing began the moment a pat lifer tried to undermine him.
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    Even more interesting that the Cutler bashing began the moment he started acting like a whiny little b*tch who was bigger than the team.

    Look closely at this photo:





    Remind you of anyone?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    McDaniels is a liar (imo), and Cutler called him on it.  sure cutlers antics were childish, but now he's got a new chance to prove himself without having to look over his shoulder wondering what conniving tricks his coach may be trying to pull. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    Mike - if you were cutler and just named to the pro bowl and the best years of your career were many years in front of you and your new coach just said you were his guy and then he went out to get his former guy, wouldn't that tell you that you really weren't in the team's plans? 

    By team, I guess you mean Josh Mc's team.  The question is whose team is it?  If its Mcd's then he made it clear that cutler wasn't in his plans.  if that is the case why is it that cutler should simply carry on as if nothing happened?  the only reason that cutler's antics became an issue is because Mcd's blunder in trying to get another qb was equalled by his ineptitude to actually get that qb.  No one would have been surprised by cutlers antics if mcdaniels had actually succeeded. 

    So, from my point of view, the team walked out on him first.  They just expected forgiveness for their sin. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: Josh Mac tabs Kyle Orton as starter...

    I have to admit, Cutler was nowhere on my radar before the "trade that never was." All I knew about him was that he was a dangerous playmaker who could be easily rattled. I don't so much stand in McDaniels' corner as not in Cutler's. I think maybe Jay was handled with kid gloves under Shanahan and the notion that there were "expectations" of him and that he could be replaced took him by surprise. His actions after the trade speculation  became public were worthy of a 12-year-old girl and while I could care less one way or the other, I would think he has some serious image-rebuilding to do in Chicago  --  which has not been a haven for quarterbacks.
     
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