Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    This pretty much sums it up!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    A link?  Post the article?  I'm too lazy to find it lol.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    Here's it is:

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view/20091207personnel_moves_lead_to_patriots_plunge_building_to_collapse/
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PAT-from-India. Show PAT-from-India's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    very true.. Better Planning is what the team needs
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from FOWLER8196. Show FOWLER8196's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    interesting... i agree.  cant keep letting your impact players go and pick up other people's table scraps through FA.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    Ron Borges's article......which I just read was the most intelligent and factual observation of the Patriots dilemna and how we got there !! Isn't it more intelligent to draft a player in the first round for a need that is young and has tremendous potential to be an impact starter on your team for years to come with the proper coaching.,.......././
    rather than trade that down for 2.or 3 lower round picks like a we have been...If you don't trust your College scouting crew as talent evauaters get rid of them !!!!  I am so sick of seeing us trading down and trying to address our need with free agency year after year.....As people would readily point out we are the 20th team below the cap in terms of payroll but are we spending it on the Adalius Thomas's of the word...We resign the turnstyle Nick Kaszur to a 3 year extension and we haven'even exteneded Logan Mankins or more importantly Vince Wilfolk and you wonder why we are in this dilemna ??? Out of all the "smart drafts " the Patriots have had with their muliple choice maneuvering how many starters has it produced since our last Super Bowl ????
    My personal feeling is that B.B is taking too much on himself..the Coordinators he has promoted are aweful...and he wont' fire them cause he picked them......Peese for instance !! The only way to stop the skid is to stop the train of thought that got us here...from the draft to the choice of free agents we take out of desperation to address a need !!!    like our entire linebacking corp of free agents save Mayo !!!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    I don't know how this compares to other teams, do teams turn over thier 53 man roster every 5 years?  It would seem that any consistent winning team would only get a few starters out of a draft.  How many people are on this roster that were here in 2004?

    I just think the draft is typically has low probability of starters unless teams pick in the early first round.  Have the Colts picked up more starters, it seems they have a lot of the same personnel in years past.

    Judging a draft by looking only at the starters is like judging a basketball player off how many halfcourt shots they make.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tenthstream. Show Tenthstream's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    Ron Borges has had it in for BB for a long time, ever since BB pissed on his shoes in the bathroom.

    What you armchair QB's fail to take into account is all the people that have been plucked from the organization other than players.

    We have lost alot of scouts and coaches. If you have no one you can count on to evaluate talent to draft, isn't it wise to trade down and accumilate picks so when you have replaced your scouts and have people in place to evaluate talent you can use those first round and extra picks?

    I.E., This past draft seems so far to have been better than the drafts previous. Maybe this is due to the fact that the Pats picked up Floyd Reese to help in drafting talent?

    We have had coordinators last one year and get hired elsewhere. They take them away faster than BB can train them.

    I have been a Pats fan since 1976, and I have no problem with how things are being done. Maybe some of you new young fans should be sent back in time to the Sullivan years, that'll learn ya.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    Very very good article and I agree with most of it.  We lived in the hopes TB, MV, RS, RH ect ect would stay young and play for ever but that was not the case.  We are living with the 7 ps of planning, pist poor planning provides pist poor performance.
    Some bad drafts and free agents, but don't get me wrong at the time of the AT, Shawn S, Burgess ect signings I was excited and thought they were the answer and they have been far from it.  I think the 2009 will proof to be the beginning of fixing and improving this team. 
    The only question I have from those pics is Ron Brace, where is he what is going on with him.  Voll will be a stud at LT for years, Chung and Butler are contributing already and Tate is a 1st round talent that will contribute next year.  We could not have imagine that Mckenzie would have been hurt during camp.  He would have been a starter this year or at minimum help in the pass rush. 
    For a rebuilding year as I have said to still be leading the division is great, could we be better offcourse but we could also be Detroit, Browns, TB, SF... so I have mixed feelings about this season, maybe we just had too high expectations to begin with not realistic to the roster that we had on D and Brady not been Brady the first half of the season and in some games in second half. 
    This team will be fine, if you can't say in BB we trust after what he has done this year in rebuild mode you might need to rethink how you see the NFL.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wmo1679. Show wmo1679's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    Ron Borges has had it in for BB for a long time, ever since BB pissed on his shoes in the bathroom. What you armchair QB's fail to take into account is all the people that have been plucked from the organization other than players. We have lost alot of scouts and coaches. If you have no one you can count on to evaluate talent to draft, isn't it wise to trade down and accumilate picks so when you have replaced your scouts and have people in place to evaluate talent you can use those first round and extra picks? I.E., This past draft seems so far to have been better than the drafts previous. Maybe this is due to the fact that the Pats picked up Floyd Reese to help in drafting talent? We have had coordinators last one year and get hired elsewhere. They take them away faster than BB can train them. I have been a Pats fan since 1976, and I have no problem with how things are being done. Maybe some of you new young fans should be sent back in time to the Sullivan years, that'll learn ya.
    Posted by Tenthstream


    Belichick pissed on borges's shoes in a bathroom. I never heard that one before
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    Ron Borges has had it in for BB for a long time, ever since BB pissed on his shoes in the bathroom. What you armchair QB's fail to take into account is all the people that have been plucked from the organization other than players. We have lost alot of scouts and coaches. If you have no one you can count on to evaluate talent to draft, isn't it wise to trade down and accumilate picks so when you have replaced your scouts and have people in place to evaluate talent you can use those first round and extra picks? I.E., This past draft seems so far to have been better than the drafts previous. Maybe this is due to the fact that the Pats picked up Floyd Reese to help in drafting talent? We have had coordinators last one year and get hired elsewhere. They take them away faster than BB can train them. I have been a Pats fan since 1976, and I have no problem with how things are being done. Maybe some of you new young fans should be sent back in time to the Sullivan years, that'll learn ya.
    Posted by Tenthstream

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BSII. Show BSII's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    Borges has always hated Bill Belichick.  He's been hoping for a collapse for years, finally getting his chance to expose the mistakes.  The reality is the NFL is not built for sustained excellence by teams.  Free agency, salary cap, coaching changes, etc. force teams to turn over rosters and coaching staff more frequently.  The Patriots have certainly missed big in some decisions, but on a whole this has been a terrific stretch.  18 first and second year players have contributed this year.  Big number for a potential division winner/playoff team.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    Ron Borges has had it in for BB for a long time, ever since BB pissed on his shoes in the bathroom. What you armchair QB's fail to take into account is all the people that have been plucked from the organization other than players. We have lost alot of scouts and coaches. If you have no one you can count on to evaluate talent to draft, isn't it wise to trade down and accumilate picks so when you have replaced your scouts and have people in place to evaluate talent you can use those first round and extra picks? I.E., This past draft seems so far to have been better than the drafts previous. Maybe this is due to the fact that the Pats picked up Floyd Reese to help in drafting talent? We have had coordinators last one year and get hired elsewhere. They take them away faster than BB can train them. I have been a Pats fan since 1976, and I have no problem with how things are being done. Maybe some of you new young fans should be sent back in time to the Sullivan years, that'll learn ya.
    Posted by Tenthstream


    IMHO this was a good article. Belichick pissing on Borges shoes that's something I know nothing of. As for losing coaches and front office people, I posted that earlier in the day and you can check it out if you wish. I believe that point has been made numerous by other people on this forum. As for being around during the Sullivan years, I was. Infact, I started following the Pats when Plunkett was QB. Heres a fact- You and I are Armchair QBs as well as everyone else on this forum. That's all forums do is provide the venue to express peoples opinions. simple! I stay away from name calling

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from IraqSteve. Show IraqSteve's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    Good article...

    Need to make some serious moves in the draft.....  bring in the talent.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    Ron Borges has had it in for BB for a long time, ever since BB pissed on his shoes in the bathroom. What you armchair QB's fail to take into account is all the people that have been plucked from the organization other than players. We have lost alot of scouts and coaches. If you have no one you can count on to evaluate talent to draft, isn't it wise to trade down and accumilate picks so when you have replaced your scouts and have people in place to evaluate talent you can use those first round and extra picks? I.E., This past draft seems so far to have been better than the drafts previous. Maybe this is due to the fact that the Pats picked up Floyd Reese to help in drafting talent? We have had coordinators last one year and get hired elsewhere. They take them away faster than BB can train them. I have been a Pats fan since 1976, and I have no problem with how things are being done. Maybe some of you new young fans should be sent back in time to the Sullivan years, that'll learn ya.
    Posted by Tenthstream


    I'm with you Bud! You dont see Norv Turner or Lovie Smiths coaching or scouting staff getting raided every year. Belichick can carry on far as I'm concerned. This team is a far cry from the 2,3 or 4 win seasons I've endured with the Pats. Logan Mankins was a surprise pick for me and look how he turned out. The knock on him was duribility, go figure.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    If Borges is so smart why isn't he a scout for some NFL team? Has to pay better then what he gets paid to dish out the trash he dishes out.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    Ron Borges has had it in for BB for a long time, ever since BB pissed on his shoes in the bathroom. What you armchair QB's fail to take into account is all the people that have been plucked from the organization other than players. We have lost alot of scouts and coaches. If you have no one you can count on to evaluate talent to draft, isn't it wise to trade down and accumilate picks so when you have replaced your scouts and have people in place to evaluate talent you can use those first round and extra picks? I.E., This past draft seems so far to have been better than the drafts previous. Maybe this is due to the fact that the Pats picked up Floyd Reese to help in drafting talent? We have had coordinators last one year and get hired elsewhere. They take them away faster than BB can train them. I have been a Pats fan since 1976, and I have no problem with how things are being done. Maybe some of you new young fans should be sent back in time to the Sullivan years, that'll learn ya.
    Posted by Tenthstream


    That's nonsense. Borges is a hard azz, but that's his job. Nothing in his article is untrue.

    If loosing staff is a problem, there are solutions. Pay them more. get them into longer contracts when you bring them in, etc, etc. I do agree that maybe this "loyalty" and "promoting from within" thing has gotten out of hand. How we can play in the NFL without an OC, is beyond me.
     
    Not only that but, in the NFL, much like real life. if you don't perform you're out the door. Pees should be packing his gear right now. He's been a complete failure.

    Borges' article was right on as far as what we've gotten out of the last few drafts and FA pickups. We let branch and gaffney go and what did we get to replace them? rene "googly eyes" caldwell and a bum like stallworth? Are you f*cking kidding me? Is pierre woods going to replace tedy? is james sanders replacing rodney? We gave a third and a fifth for burgess? C'mon man!

    Whatever the reason, it has to stop right now. certainly there are no guarantees in the NFL draft but we have to start hitting at least an occasional home run, instead of the strikeouts we're been putting up over the past few years and our batting average needs to be in the high 300s not the low 100s.

    I've been a pats fans since jim plunkett was drafted in 1971 and I have big problems with the direction the franchise has been moving in since 2001. I get the impression Mr. Kraft, now that he has a few Lombardis in his office, wants to start improving his bottom line by cutting corners everywhere and trading out of the higher first round picks. I hope I'm wrong but that's just the feeling I get.

    We're not dead as long as we have our HOF QB. We're a half dozen quality play-makers (at OT, OLB, RB, CB, TE and WR) and two coordinators away from becoming an elite team and a SB contender once again.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from gfkr2. Show gfkr2's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    Painful as it is, Borges points out the obvious.  The Patriots have done a less than stellar job with thier draft picks and free agent signings. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fuzzy1. Show fuzzy1's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    Ron Borges has had it in for BB for a long time, ever since BB pissed on his shoes in the bathroom. What you armchair QB's fail to take into account is all the people that have been plucked from the organization other than players. We have lost alot of scouts and coaches. If you have no one you can count on to evaluate talent to draft, isn't it wise to trade down and accumilate picks so when you have replaced your scouts and have people in place to evaluate talent you can use those first round and extra picks? I.E., This past draft seems so far to have been better than the drafts previous. Maybe this is due to the fact that the Pats picked up Floyd Reese to help in drafting talent? We have had coordinators last one year and get hired elsewhere. They take them away faster than BB can train them. I have been a Pats fan since 1976, and I have no problem with how things are being done. Maybe some of you new young fans should be sent back in time to the Sullivan years, that'll learn ya.
    Posted by Tenthstream


    You're absolutely right about scouts and coaches that the organization has lost since 2004... I think its a huge factor that the media never touches on.  Its hard enough to find talent, but because of the Pats success, the most talented scouts and coaches are gone after one or two years following a promotion, not counting the people Mangina has taken with him straight to he77. 

    As for Borges, I consider him a fungus.  He should have been sent away to cover the Oakland Raiders or Lions after he was fired for plagerism, but he just stuck around Boston, pathetically hoping for another chance to get another gig.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stay-Pro. Show Stay-Pro's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    ...take into account is all the people that have been plucked from the organization other than players. We have lost alot of scouts and coaches. ... We have had coordinators last one year and get hired elsewhere. They take them away faster than BB can train them...
    Posted by Tenthstream




    THAT is where Mr Kraft's wallet has been puny.
    PAY the coaches, scouts and coordinators, so that this doesn't happen.

    There isn't any cap on coach pay, so why don't we have the best?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel : That's nonsense. Borges is a hard azz, but that's his job. Nothing in his article is untrue. If loosing staff is a problem, there are solutions. Pay them more. get them into longer contracts when you bring them in, etc, etc. I do agree that maybe this "loyalty" and "promoting from within" thing has gotten out of hand. How we can play in the NFL without an OC, is beyond me.   Not only that but, in the NFL, much like real life. if you don't perform you're out the door. Pees should be packing his gear right now. He's been a complete failure. Borges' article was right on as far as what we've gotten out of the last few drafts and FA pickups. We let branch and gaffney go and what did we get to replace them? rene "googly eyes" caldwell and a bum like stallworth? Are you f*cking kidding me? Is pierre woods going to replace tedy? is james sanders replacing rodney? We gave a third and a fifth for burgess? C'mon man! Whatever the reason, it has to stop right now. certainly there are no guarantees in the NFL draft but we have to start hitting at least an occasional home run, instead of the strikeouts we're been putting up over the past few years and our batting average needs to be in the high 300s not the low 100s. I've been a pats fans since jim plunkett was drafted in 1971 and I have big problems with the direction the franchise has been moving in since 2001. I get the impression Mr. Kraft, now that he has a few Lombardis in his office, wants to start improving his bottom line by cutting corners everywhere and trading out of the higher first round picks. I hope I'm wrong but that's just the feeling I get. We're not dead as long as we have our HOF QB. We're a half dozen quality play-makers (at OT, OLB, RB, CB, TE and WR) and two coordinators away from becoming an elite team and a SB contender once again.
    Posted by unclealfie
    +1

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    I don't know how this compares to other teams, do teams turn over thier 53 man roster every 5 years?  It would seem that any consistent winning team would only get a few starters out of a draft.  How many people are on this roster that were here in 2004? I just think the draft is typically has low probability of starters unless teams pick in the early first round.  Have the Colts picked up more starters, it seems they have a lot of the same personnel in years past. Judging a draft by looking only at the starters is like judging a basketball player off how many halfcourt shots they make.
    Posted by shenanigan
      I disagree .......Judging a team by  the starters aquired  in the draft is an excellent way  of testfying how well your scouting system is working and how efficient your scouts are in the evaluation process...The draft is not an exact science but the higher echelon teams usually fare better because they are more efficient...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    regardless of who is right or wring, the Pats are no longer an elite team, and BB had made many questionable decisions. Maybe he misses the rest of his braintrust.  They clearly miss him.  Not one of them had been successful, and even Josh has come down to earth.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel:
    In Response to Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel : You're absolutely right about scouts and coaches that the organization has lost since 2004... I think its a huge factor that the media never touches on...
    Posted by fuzzy1


    I said it on another thread. The bright side of this season is that nobody steals any of the current coaching staff members. Actually, it's NE's turn to poach someone else's staff!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NotOver. Show NotOver's posts

    Re: Just finished reading Ron Borges article- This time it's personnel

    I AGREE
    Pay the coaches, make em stay , give the players continuity.  At least the guys who stay with the Pats will have some team family and pride
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share