Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

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    Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

         Here are some cold, hard football facts on the matter. This article focuses on the importance of DE Jared Allen to the teams' that  he's played for:

    We need a new individual honor in the NFL. We’re calling it the MV non-QB P – the most valuable player who doesn’t play quarterback.

    It’s an honor long overdue.

    After all, America’s pigskin “pundits” are obsessed with offensive players and with quarterbacks in particular. Just look at the long list of NFL MVP’s or college ball’s Heisman Trophy winners. Both awards are almost exclusively reserved for offensive players.

    Hell, in the NFL, the tools who vote for MVP should just rename it the Peyton Manning Memorial Award: they now hand him MVP honors each year merely as a reflex, even on seasons when he clearly did not deserve it, as was the case in both 2008 and 2009.
     
    RESPONSE: Did you read the above paragraph, Dog(gggg)?? LOL!!!

    But we can’t be too critical: even the operatic Pavarotti of pigskin, the Cold, Hard Football Facts, is guilty of hitting a sour note when we too often sing the praises of quarterbacks at the expense of the 21 other guys on the field.

    But at least we know we have a problem. And as our Uncle Bill tells us each Wednesday night in the basement of the Oak Street Baptist Church and Jiffy Lube, admitting you have a problem is half the battle. (In case you’re wondering, the sign out front of the Oak Street Baptist Church and Jiffy Lube reads: “Forbidden fruit creates many jams … and some tasty homemade wine coolers.”)
    So it’s this obsession with offense and with quarterbacks that spawned the introduction of our new MV non-QB P.

    And that player over the past six seasons, the NFL’s Most Valuable Non-Quarterback Player, is Jared Allen, the high-motor defensive end currently plying his trade with the Minnesota Favrkings.
    It’s amazing what you learn at Taco Bell

    Most outlets and pigskin “pundits” have few ways to measure the performance of defensive linemen, save for sacks and the often misleading tackles: the former was not even an official stat until 1982, the latter, the most basic function of defense, is still not an official stat.

    The Cold, Hard Football Facts, however, boast a very official stat. In fact, we have one of the greatest indicators in sports and the only stat to our knowledge that measures the performance of each team’s defensive front. We call it the Defensive Hog Index, an incredible indicator pioneered by our beloved Colonel Comey one night while waiting in the Taco Bell drive-thru lane.  

    (The Defensive Hog Index, for you CHFF newbies, measures each defense in three areas: ability to stop the run, ability to force Negative Pass Plays – sacks and INTs – and ability to get off the field on third down. )

    In the three years since we’ve offered the Defensive Hog Index, the No. 1 team in the indicator has twice won the Super Bowl (the 2007 Giants and 2008 Steelers). The No. 1 team last year easily won the NFC North (Green Bay). Not a bad performance considering the indicator came to Comey in between bites of a 99-cent chalupa.
    In addition to identifying great teams, the Defensive Hog Index allows us to prove that Allen is the NFL’s MV non-QB P over the past several seasons.

    The Jared Allen Effect

    Consider Allen’s career in Kansas City. The pre-Allen Chiefs of 2003 went 13-3, won the AFC West and boasted the league’s No. 1 offense (30.2 PPG). But they fielded a brutal defense, as the football world witnessed in a divisional playoff game between the Chiefs and Colts.

    Peyton Manning and the Indy offense shredded the Kansas City defense like cabbage in cole slaw: they gained 142 yards on the ground, 304 through the air, averaged a dominating 6.9 yards per play and the converted 8 of 11 third downs.  The Chiefs were helpless defensively.

    So Kansas City’s promising 2003 season came crashing down around it, with a frustrating a 31-28 one-and-done playoff defeat at home.

    Big changes were needed, and Allen was a part of that movement to solidify the defense. The Chiefs drafted him in the fourth round of Idaho State. The Kansas City defense was no better in 2004, but Allen showed promise with 9.0 sacks as a rookie.

    By 2007, the Kansas City defense had improved to the point that the stoppers carried the team despite a poor offense. And Allen was a dominant defensive end in 2007 – league leading 15.5 sacks – and the Chiefs were a dominant group of Defensive Hogs: No. 5 overall on our Defensive Hog Index and the NFL’s best defense on third downs.

    Then Allen moved to Minnesota in 2008: the Vikings instantly went from a great run-stopping defensive front to a dominant group of Defensive Hogs. They remained a dominant group in 2009, as well.

    The Chiefs, meanwhile, imploded in the wake of the Allen departure.

    A dominant defensive front in 2007, the Chiefs fielded one of the worst defensive lines in memory 2008. They barely improved in 2009.

    Quarterbacks rarely have that kind of immediate impact on a team’s fortunes, let alone defensive ends. So let’s break it all down.

    The 2007 and 2008 Chiefs

    Allen’s 2007 Chiefs were a dominant defensive front. Here’s how they sized up on our Defensive Hog Index:

    5th overall; 24th in run defense (4.34 YPA); 6th in forcing Negative Pass Plays (10.22%); 1st in third-down defense (31.3%)
    Here’s how the Chiefs stacked up in our Defensive Hog Index in 2008, the first year without Allen:

    32nd overall; 31st in run defense (5.0 YPA); 32nd in forcing Negative Pass Plays (4.3%); 31st in third-down defense (47.4%)
    Talk about a total statistical collapse.

    The Chiefs fielded a below-average run defense with Allen in 2007; they fielded a terrible run defense without him in 2008.

    The Chiefs were among the best in the NFL at forcing quarterbacks into Negative Pass Plays (sacks and INTs) with Allen in 2007; they were the worst in football at forcing Negative Pass Plays without him in 2008.

    The Chiefs were tops in the NFL on third down with Allen in 2007; they fell to 31st in the NFL on third down with him in 2008.

    Most tellingly, the Chiefs fell from No. 5 on our Defensive Hog Index in 2007 to 32nd and dead last in 2008.

    It was a disastrous collapse the likes of which we’ve really seen out of a single defensive unit in the space of one season.

    The 2007 and 2008 Vikings

    The Vikings acquired Allen for big bucks before the start of the 2008 season. If you value the performance of your Defensive Hogs, it was money well spent, as Minnesota witnessed an instant improvement in the fortunes of their defense.
    The pre-Allen Vikings of 2007 were great on run defense but, overall, an average group of Defensive Hogs.

    The 2007 Vikings finished 14th overall on our Defensive Hog Index; 2nd against the run (3.13 YPA), 24th at forcing Negative Pass Plays (7.75%) and 18th in third-down defense (40.2%).

    Add Allen and 2008, and the Vikings instantly become a dominant defensive front in all phases of the Defensive Hog Index.

    The 2008 Vikings finished 4th overall on our Defensive Hog Index; 2nd against the run (3.31 YPA); 8th at forcing Negative Pass Plays (9.9%) and 4th in third-down defense (33.5%).

    The 2008 Vikings, in other words, remained a tough group of run stoppers. But their ability to force quarterbacks into sacks and INTs, and their ability to get off the field on third down, skyrocketed in both instances.

    The Allen impact was most noticeable in third-down defense:  the Chiefs fell from No. 1 in 2007 to No. 31 in 2008; the Vikings improved from No. 18 in 2007 to No. 4 in 2008.

    Both defenses, it appears, were just tougher and nastier and more likely to get off the field with Allen in the line-up.

    Kansas City’s struggles, and Minnesota’s dominance, continued in 2009.
    The 2009 Chiefs finished No. 29 overall on our Defensive Hog index: 31st against the run (4.72 YPA), 28th at forcing Negative Pass Plays (7.14%) and 15th in third-down defense (38.12%).

    The 2009 Vikings finished No. 3 overall on our Defensive Hog Index: 6th against the run, 9th at forcing Negative Pass Plays (9.97%) and 3rd in third-down defense (34.5%).

    The Allen impact was also obvious, at least in Kansas City, in the most important place: the scoreboard.

    The 2007 Chiefs surrendered 20.9 PPG (14th in the NFL); the 27.5 PPG (29th) in 2008 and 26.5 PPG in 2009.

    The Chiefs, in other words, have fallen apart in every measureable way defensively since Allen left for Minnesota.

    The Vikings, for their part, have remained static in scoring defense with Allen in the line-up: 19.4 PPG (12th) in 2007; 20.8 PPG (13th) in 2008; and 19.5 PPG (10th) in 2009. But clearly, as chronicled above, the production of their defensive front.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    in short, in the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king

    when tully banta-cain is your king...you are indeed blind...ie...need to find better pass rushers and burgess nor ninkovich are the answer either
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    One dimensional pass-rusher is not that important.  Stop the run, drop everyone back in coverage, eventually the QB will make a mistake.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    Hey Jimmy I bet you said the same thing about Vrabel in 2001. You knock Ninkovich now but if he comes out and gives us 5 sacks and a bunch of run stops he will be worth it. Our D does not need to put up huge stats, we didnt when we were winning championships and we dont now. You are only a "no name" till you are a name and when ti happens it happens fast. People didnt think Welker was much until he started catching 100 passes a season and then the thought differently.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life

    well the thing about welker was...he was good but didnt have a qb when he was with us...however ive seen enough of ninkovich to see that his ceiling is where most floors start...but then again...if he makes the team...he isnt likely to see mass amounts of playing time anyways
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    I have no idea how Egghead won the MVP last year. Brees was robbed badly. The media just hands it over to Eggie. Remember 2003 when McNair heroically led his team to the playoffs with a broken rib, outperforming Gomer? Unreal. As for Jimmy Jack, pretending Tony SPorano is a good defensive coach as compared to BB is hilarious. Just because Ninkovich didn't get a sniff in New Orleans or Miami, doens't mean he can't play a nice role in a 3-4 in NE under the greatest defensive mind/tutor in NFL history.
    Posted by russgriswold

    well lets see...sparano is an offensive line coach by trade...which is a little different than defense...but hey...no one gives you enough credit for your stupidity

    and ninkovich is a journey man...who isnt very fast and who cant cover...all im going to say is good luck

    anything else dipstick?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher? : Didn't Banta Cain gave a nice game against Jake Long last year in Miami?   Sack, some nice pressures?  Oh, I think so.
    Posted by russgriswold

    oh golly, a sack in two games against

    i bet the phins game plan for him the way teams used to game plan for LT, seriously
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher? : Like I said, you pretending Soprano has as much of a chance of grooming a defensive player like Ninkovich or even has remotely near the track record of BB in doing so, is high comedy at its finest. Funny how you try to twist these things around. You are convinced Ninkovich stinks because Miami cut him.  BB apparently does not. This means you feel Soprano is a better coach than BB with what you said.
    Posted by russgriswold

    A. again, sparano was an offensive line coach, ie...wouldnt coach ninkovich unless he learned to block
    B. do you know who the head coach of the phins was in 07? cam cameron...yeah...the a-hole who lead us to 1 win...ie...he is an awful example to use in any case...unless you compare him with the likes of john mccay that is
    C. does it su.ck being wrong as often as you are?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    I completely agree with the fact that it seems as if Peyton gets an MVP just for starting 14 games in a season. As long as no one player in the NFL had a dominant year, Peyton will immediately get the honor. I remember in 2007, the same year Tom broke every offensive statistic in the book, that Peyton Manning actually got a first place vote. It plays into my "most overrated player in NFL history" debate. If the media had a chance of pick the winner of the SB the Colts would have the greatest dynasty ever. We have been led to believe that Peyton is Jesus, and we should thank him everyday that he graces our eyes with his awesomeness. It makes me sick. 

    On the pass-rusher, James, my friend, you say TBC, Burgess, and Ninkovich won't provide a good rush based on what you've seen from them, but you forgot that you've never seen either Shawn Crable or Jermaine Cunningham. Based on pontential, both Crable and Cunningham should be able to create a copacetic pass-rush. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    What's this copacetic crapp!?  And I mean the word not the pass rush.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    What's this copacetic crapp!?  And I mean the word not the pass rush.
    Posted by garytx


    My English 101 teacher said it means "very satisfactory" when I took E101 in college. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    Incredibly valuable. Look at the Giants in 07 they are a great example. They had 3 players who were great and could rush and they were down linemen. 

    If the Pats can get a solid above average producer playing at OLB there is no doubt in my mind the secondary looks better and this team overall goes farther places. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    It will be interesting to see how the Pats do for pass rush this year. Last year we got no real production from our D-Line. Can Ty Warren get back to his pre-2007 form, will Gerard Warren, Damoine Lewis, Mike Wright, or Myron Pryon end up being an upgrade over Jarvis Green? Linebackers will Spikes or McKenzie come in and take away the ILB from Guyton, can Mayo improve upon last year? How will the outside LB position shake out, will Derrick Burgess continue 2010 the way 2009 ended, will Banta-Cain be a 3 down player, can Cunningham or Ninkovich get some playing time in on early downs, can Crable stay healthy and make the club?

    Lots of questions on our front 7 but lots of competition and unknowns. One things for sure I don't see the Pats missing A Thomas this year. Also really believe a lot of questions on this year's D will come back with positive answers that we'll get a DE to play at a higher level than Green, we'll have better ILB play, someone will step up at OLB and improve that position. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    Seymour and Willie Mac both could rush the passer and play great run D. If the Pats could find (Cunningham MacKenzie ?) or draft players of their calibre we would (once again) have a dominant defense. Not complaining. Just saying is all.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    Jared Allen was a 1-dimensional pass rusher in 2009.  Trent Cole of Philadelphia was just as good a 4-3 pass rusher, but he equally stops the run.
     
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    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    in short, in the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king when tully banta-cain is your king...you are indeed blind...ie...need to find better pass rushers and burgess nor ninkovich are the answer either
    Posted by Jimmy42Jack0

    Banta-Cain got 10 sacks last year.  You're calling him not good because he's not familiar?  Are you the guy that votes all those has-beens into the Pro Bowl every year?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wizardsjag. Show Wizardsjag's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher? : Banta-Cain got 10 sacks last year.  You're calling him not good because he's not familiar?  Are you the guy that votes all those has-beens into the Pro Bowl every year?
    Posted by Paul_K


    Guess I was more curious at why a fan of a team whose defense finished in the bottom 1/3 of the league is talking trash about the Pats D. I'd say worry about your own defense first, they could be the reason why Miami doesn't make the playoffs this year.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    I have no idea how Egghead won the MVP last year. Brees was robbed badly. The media just hands it over to Eggie. Remember 2003 when McNair heroically led his team to the playoffs with a broken rib, outperforming Gomer? Unreal. As for Jimmy Jack, pretending Tony SPorano is a good defensive coach as compared to BB is hilarious. Just because Ninkovich didn't get a sniff in New Orleans or Miami, doens't mean he can't play a nice role in a 3-4 in NE under the greatest defensive mind/tutor in NFL history.
    Posted by russgriswold

    I'll answer why you have no idea and I'll use one of your favorite lines:

    You're stupid. 

    Here's another for you that you should know: How do ya like them apples? 

    The fact is Manning did more with less than Brees.  Pretty simple, but then again, you are no Einstein.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    Russ, overall yes, but I might add that Willie played great in some very important games (playoffs). And that has to count for something.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher? : He did more with less? Really? Is that so? So that means Tom Brady was the 2005 and 2006 MVP when he had Dillon on one foot in 2005 and no running game, and then had absolutely no WRs other than the legendary Reche Caldwell in 2006, right, Underoos? Right? Yeah, Brady only led teams to SBs and AFC Title games only to be hosed by sketchy officials with phantom calls, didn't he? Gee, what did Tom Brady do with less for so many years?  He won SBs.  He also pasted Eggie's best regular season when he got him some toys, didn't he? More with less, you say?  Looking to have your cake and eat it too, dork?  Which is it? Manning won MVPs with Marvie 'The Murderer' Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Stokley, etc and had PLENTY of support, a dome and Polian. Huh? What you got to say there, hotshot? Your argument doesn't quite add up, does it?  You want an MVP to work when Manning doesn't have Marvie and other quality weapons anymore, yet Eggie was handed MVPs before too, like in 2003 when McNair outplayed him with less and a broken rib. Just who is stupid here? Apparently you are because you just walked right into a door face first. Manning won MVPs with weaponry similar to what Brees had. I just proved that you think Eggie is entitled regardless of what your argument for an MVP is. Thanks for playing though.
    Posted by russgriswold

    Wow - that is quite a response, and it might actually have legs if Brady didn't have a legendary defense behind him all those years, and, of course, if you didn't throw in the conspiracy theories.  But, hey, that's you, and a leopard can't change its spots, right?

    So in 2003, Manning played the entire season, led the league in completions, yards, and completion percentage, while playing all games (McNair did not), beating McNair twice, and leading the team to a divison title against McNair's Titans.  Yep, chalk another poor arguement up to young Russ.  

    2004 - who outplayed Manning?

    2008 - Who outplayed Manning?  He came off of two knee surgeries, one in mid July and the second Late July/Early August, missed the entire training camp and most of the preseason while playing with an injured Addai and an injured and ineffective Harrison, and an injured Ryan Lilja while leading his team to a 12-4 record.  Incredible.    

    2009 - Who outplayed Manning?  No one.   

    Heck by your standards, Manning should have gotten another one in 2006.  That would be five.  C'mon Dummy.  You can do better than that. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    05 and 06 - Brady didn't deserve it.  Manning was better than Brady and didn't win. 
    04 Season - Brady didn't come close to outplaying Manning.  Manning broke the TD record.  Belichick was so jealous about how great manning was that when he outfitted Brady with Moss and Welker, he made sure he kept Brady in games long enough to ensure Brady broke those records.  And that year Brady deserved the MVP.

    09 - Brees was great and could have won the award, but Manning did not lose one game in which he played the full game.  Not Brees.  As for sacks, sometimes that occurs because a QB holds on to the ball too long.  Milwaukee folks think so. 

    http://www.jsonline.com/polls/64327212.html?results=y&oid=1&mr=1&cid=8500544&pid=64327212

    Really Russ you have to use more than opinion to validate a point.  Your words are meaningless anyway, but at least with a little support we might pay attention a little more.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    05 and 06 - Brady didn't deserve it.  Manning was better than Brady and didn't win.  04 Season - Brady didn't come close to outplaying Manning.  Manning broke the TD record.  Belichick was so jealous about how great manning was that when he outfitted Brady with Moss and Welker, he made sure he kept Brady in games long enough to ensure Brady broke those records.  And that year Brady deserved the MVP. 09 - Brees was great and could have won the award, but Manning did not lose one game in which he played the full game.  Not Brees.  As for sacks, sometimes that occurs because a QB holds on to the ball too long.  Milwaukee folks think so.  http://www.jsonline.com/polls/64327212.html?results=y&oid=1&mr=1&cid=8500544&pid=64327212 Really Russ you have to use more than opinion to validate a point.  Your words are meaningless anyway, but at least with a little support we might pay attention a little more.  
    Posted by underdoggggg

    Troll at its finest baby. How does someone not outplay them when they knock them out of the postseason in the most important game? I love how people tend to forget who had the better team that year and better playoff positioning that year for Mr.MVP threw 49 TDs but still got no BYE week and still threw none against the Pats? Yeah outplaying Brady. Go away troll and slurp off Manning some more.

    05-06 Brady didnt out play Manning that year

    07-08 lol they kept them in longer? Yeah no sorry troll its called keeping the lead and playing to win games. Yeah you know since its a 2 TD lead lets call it a day. I think the Pats team this year would have loved to been up 4 TDs. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher? : Banta-Cain got 10 sacks last year.  You're calling him not good because he's not familiar?  Are you the guy that votes all those has-beens into the Pro Bowl every year?
    Posted by Paul_K

    no, im saying that when considering his time in the league...that last year was more likely a career year than the start of an upward trend....fair enough?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher? : Guess I was more curious at why a fan of a team whose defense finished in the bottom 1/3 of the league is talking trash about the Pats D. I'd say worry about your own defense first, they could be the reason why Miami doesn't make the playoffs this year.
    Posted by Wizardsjag

    A. im not talking trash about the pats D...i just think they didnt do much to improve the pass rush
    B. the phins went out and drafted quite a few front 7 guys, in addition to getting dansby, and added mike nolan to coach up the defense
    C. we got rid of taylor, porter, and wilson who were not producing
    D. the miami d was shredded by injuries last year...if they can manage to stay even a little bit healthier this year...the unit will definitely be improved
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jimmy42Jack0. Show Jimmy42Jack0's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    Possible, but doubtful considering he started all the games there back in a BB D and without a good or great DE next to him.  Slap a better playing DE to his left and another year back playing most downs and his good  play is likely more what we will be used to seeing. He's not a Pro Bowl OLB by any means and probably never will be, but he can be consistent and effective. I have to chuckle at fans like you who think Belichick isn't as good of a coach as he's earned in this league for so long.
    Posted by russgriswold

    ok chief, but they didnt slap a better DE next to him

    and BB is good...but you cant turn po.op into creme de la creme everytime...

    right now, he is the best pass rusher on the roster and that should scare everyone...even just a little bit
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?

    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher?:
    In Response to Re: Just How Valuable is a Pass-Rusher? : Troll at its finest baby. How does someone not outplay them when they knock them out of the postseason in the most important game? I love how people tend to forget who had the better team that year and better playoff positioning that year for Mr.MVP threw 49 TDs but still got no BYE week and still threw none against the Pats? Yeah outplaying Brady. Go away troll and slurp off Manning some more. 05-06 Brady didnt out play Manning that year 07-08 lol they kept them in longer? Yeah no sorry troll its called keeping the lead and playing to win games. Yeah you know since its a 2 TD lead lets call it a day. I think the Pats team this year would have loved to been up 4 TDs. 
    Posted by Pancakespwn

    I always give credit where it is due.  The Pats had a legendary defense during its SB run that included shutting down MVP Manning (albeit with a little extra holding on its receivers - good strategy).  I'll remind you of a famous Brady quote:  "I wouldn't want to play our Defense).  He never had to.
     
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