Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yukon-Cornelius. Show Yukon-Cornelius's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Believe what you choose. Tim Tebow's faith is neither in religion nor the originator of one. His faith rests in God. Again, we have someone (Yukon-Cornelius) on this thread who is twisting the issue. If you think that God relies on men for their praise or if you think that God defines faith by religious affiliation or if you think that knowing God can happen by hearing what others say about God you are mistaken and you think without a discerning mind. It is clear, if YOU seek God YOU WILL find God. Having faith, as Tim Tebow does, is not like being a Patriots fan. Yukon-Cornelius, you appear to have judged God, by what you see or saw in your parents and in the Catholic church. Knowing of God is what religion (your Catholic parents and church mates) told you. But KNOWING God is entirely different. Know Him before you say He's "not for me"... If you feel Tebow is in your face now (and he isn't) wait until God returns to pass true judgement on those who know Him not.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    Dude, you're reading too much into my reply.  I have no problem with Tim Tebow and how he wears his religious beliefs on his own sleeve - he's not in my face with anything.  I was speaking more in general terms.  Clear now?

    You, however, are in my face about your religious beliefs.  So chill out, will ya?  This is a football forum, not a religious forum. 
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Believe what you choose. Tim Tebow's faith is neither in religion nor the originator of one. His faith rests in God. Again, we have someone (Yukon-Cornelius) on this thread who is twisting the issue. If you think that God relies on men for their praise or if you think that God defines faith by religious affiliation or if you think that knowing God can happen by hearing what others say about God you are mistaken and you think without a discerning mind. It is clear, if YOU seek God YOU WILL find God. Having faith, as Tim Tebow does, is not like being a Patriots fan. Yukon-Cornelius, you appear to have judged God, by what you see or saw in your parents and in the Catholic church. Knowing of God is what religion (your Catholic parents and church mates) told you. But KNOWING God is entirely different. Know Him before you say He's "not for me"... If you feel Tebow is in your face now (and he isn't) wait until God returns to pass true judgement on those who know Him not.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    Holding up Yukon's post just shows what a hypocrite you are. All he's saying is the same thing most non Christians say. We don't care who or what you worship but we do care when you try to force us to adhere to your dogma. You and many Evangelicals are under the impression that you have a God given right to save us in spite of ourselves. Any time someone speaks against that you immediately break out the martyr coat and wrap yourself in it. You DO NOT have the right to force your religeon on others. Case closed.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from gmbill. Show gmbill's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    Now that we have faith and sexual orientation in here, lets go after the races and the Jews, that aught to just about make this the most useless SPORT thread I have ever seen!
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]Now that we have faith and sexual orientation in here, lets go after the races and the Jews, that aught to just about make this the most useless SPORT thread I have ever seen!
    Posted by gmbill[/QUOTE]

    We could discuss curling. That's sport isn't it. Then there's driving on 93 and 128. Way tougher sport than NASCAR
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 347pg. Show 347pg's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    Great thread with good discussion.  A few points:

      “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

     

    Sums it up for me.  I use Kurt Warner as my guide here, he acknowleged his faith, but didn't beat me to death with it.
    Davedsone

    Thats an excellent piece to quote. So true and what i always tell folks. Do your prayer in private. Noone needs to see it. Your heart is known by the most high
    JayShizzle45

    This scripture is telling people not to pray to be seen by men.  I can’t read his heart, but I don’t think Tebow is praying to be praised by men.  I think he’s sincere in trying to please God  I can’t imagine he likes the attention (negative) he receives.

    The only time it really bothers me is when someone is forcing their religion on someone else
    CaptainZdeno33

    Agree fully CZ. 
    Cables WyndBairn

    How's Tebow forcing his religion on you? You can always look away after he scores. I doubt Tebow is converting you by you watching his routines.
    Saigonsmuggler

    But I guess that's the problem most people have with religions, they insist on force feeding it to you when all you wanted to talk about is football.
    wozzy

    Nobody can force religion on anybody.  Even if I hold a gun to your head and demand that you believe, you would say you believe, but just so I don’t shoot you.  There would be no real change in your heart, just an outward statement that means nothing.  Christianity requires a change of heart, down in the spirit.  Can we please stop with “stop force feeding me” argument.  It’s impossible and it’s an entire smokescreen to blur the real issue.

     

    …who says every religious guy has to be like Kurt Warner
    CaptainZdeno33

    True.  Expressions of faith are not cookie cutter and have an element of individualism.

    The more I looked and thought it's because he's a better person than I am. He does things for others, he helps build churches in the Phillipines, he works with underprivaledged children, he goes to hospitals and sits with the dying, he truly cares about people and 99% of the rest of us don't.
    Sam-Adams

    I like Tebow. He's certainly a better guy than I am and I would also agree that I never hear anyone on the radio say anything good about him. It's usually ridicule and sometimes pertaining to his beliefs. If I had children He's one athlete I wouldn't mind having them use as a role model. Not specifically because of the religion but this guy does charity work like there is no tomorrow. He's also a pretty good football player.
    Rerun85

    Being a good guy doesn’t get you into heaven.  Tebow doesn’t do good deeds to get to heaven, he does good deeds because he’s going to heaven.  If you could earn your way into heaven, Jesus would never have had to come down and die on the cross.  You can’t earn it.  It’s the ultimate free lunch.  If you could earn it, God would owe it to you, and God owes no man anything.


    I'm not a fan of anyone who pimps his religion in front of TV cameras.
    nolastname

    Everyone else pimps everything they can in front of cameras.  Do you have trouble with that as well?  Why just religion?

    Good words. But I've even heard him say he doesn't want his faith to be a role model for kids, he feels the kids should direct to Christ for the role model.

    Yes, men can be a sign on the highway, but not the destination

    I grew up a catholic, did the alter boy thing, ect. ect. But in 1971 I listened to the first three records by Black Sabbath, and that's where i really began to understand religion.
    And the funny thing is Black Sabbath was not only the first heavy metal band, but one could consider them the first Christian rock bamd, as they sang songs that warned of evil, and the teachings of Christ, and of peace.
    KansasPatriot

    Interesting, never heard that before.

     

    I agree and for that matter, how do we know Jesus was a good carpenter?
    gmbill

    Well, he made the world.  I’m thinking he could put a chair or two together.

    One more time, folks, the ONLY reason we are so aware of Tebow's love of his faith is because the MEDIA continually asks him about it…
    Time to get off the Hate Tebow For His Profession Of Faith.
    AZPAT

    Not a ding, just a clarification.  He has a love of God, not of faith.  He does have a profession of faith about his God.

    Considering Jesus is the son of God (hence is part of God) and there is a little rule about not idealizing someone/thing to the same level as God wouldn't this mean all those looking at Tebow as if he was Jesus are in fact breaking commandments?
    PatsEng

    Don’t think they’re looking at him as Jesus, they’re just happy a Christian is doing well, or at least winning games.

    last i heard, this is america and we are free to practice religion anyway we want so long as it does not harm anyone.
    Yes, if people could just remember there are two clauses, one for the establishment of religion and one for the free exercise thereof.  It’s freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.


    maybe the reason peple get unconfomfortable with him is this...
    he is living his life for a higher purpose
    we are defensive about the fact that we don't live our life for a higher purpose
    SeattlePat70

    Agree.  In that instance he is a good example

    I really don't think Jesus cares about football or any sport!!! I wonder what people would be saying if a player started praising Allah? I'm sure it would cause some controversy.
    laurienyc13

    Jesus cares about everything in our lives.  And we won’t know about the Muslim player until one steps up and does it.

    I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ…
    hang3xc
    Good lyrics except for the above.  In actuality, every single one of us killed Christ.  He died for ALL our sins and sin without exception.

     It's amazing how much time Jesus spent denying he was divine, not denying God himself.
    BrocktonMike

    “Before Abraham was, I am….”

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Amen Brother! This is sports, something I enjoy in part as a distraction politics where at least three presidential candidates hear voices they presume are God whose told them to run the country.  To beleive that with all of the starvation, rape, mass muder, slavery, drought, etc. . .  Yes, God takes off Sunday, (and Monday & Thursdays nights) to pick winners & losers in sporting events.  Now if only those darn Jets, or Raiders, or Chiefs prayed harder God would favor them more.  Yeah, that's what decides winners & losers.
    Posted by BrocktonMike
    God is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.  He never ties or takes a day off.  He can pick winners while caring for millions of starving children.  Don’t have such a small concept of Him.

     

    Agreed. Tebow is sacrilege. And so is Tebow worship. Anyone who is truly Christian wouldn't even watch professional football because it truly defiles the Sabbath.
    zbellino
    The Sabbath is, and always has been on Saturday.  Sunday is the Lord’s day. 

     

    Greed and lust for power aren't either but that doesn't seem to bother the Evangelical right. They're all hypocrites.
    Evil2012
    Exactly why we need a savior.  There room for you and everyone else too.

    And yet some of them quote evidence as to why greed is good, abandoning their fellow man is not bad, prejudice, hatred, war are all justified, all from the Bible itself. 

    I have not been to that Church.

    " ... in these last days there are pickers and choosers of God's words who cannot endure the practical part of scripture; they are disgusted at duty, they abhor responsibilty, they disembowel texts of their plain meanings, they wrest Scriptures to their own destruction." Ps 17
    zbellino
    Z – I don’t know what Bible you’re reading, but that ain’t Psalm 17, not even close.  What’s up with that???

     

    This uproar of him being in your face reminds me of awhile back when the Dean of a college (Harvard I think) banned any military recruiters from coming on campus. Not that I think people should join the military, but I find it absurd that even being asked was so offensive to people that they would go to great lengths to "fight the tyranny" they were being subjected to. And Tebow doesn't even go so far as to ask you to be a Christian (god forbid), he simply promoted that he thinks it has been a positive effect in his life.
    I'm picturing alot of people sitting around the thanksgiving table this year and when Uncle Joe says "Wow, this is some great turkey" they respond
    "Screw you Uncle Joe!, Why are you always trying to push your pro-turkey agenda on me. Get out of my face with all this turkey is great, turkey is the only way to live. You're such a hypocrite, just last week I saw you eating chicken. If you like turkey so much why do you feel the need to come out here in public and eat it, can't you just do it at home alone and let the rest of us live our lives. Go to heII."
    Shenanigan
    Thanks for that.  That was funny

     

    Keeping recruiters off of campuses, something I support, isn't about 'tyranny' or being offended ... it's about letting young people grow up a bit before they make a heavy decision that could alter their lives forever.
    zbellino
    So I’m assuming by these words you have issues with schools handing out condoms to 5th graders????

     

    until religion is used to persecute and to physically harm, and to commit genocide. which is everyday (including by christians).
    brdbreu
    If you’re including Christians that say they are, but really aren’t, then ok.  But Christians currently aren’t using force to change people’s hearts.

    Just sayin'...

    What would be American society's reaction if Tebow were Jewish and sat out on a Saturday game for his faith? 

    Or if Tebow were Muslim and kneeled and bowed his head down on the ground in the endzone to thank God?

    Or if Tebow were Hindu and thanked Vishnu and multiple gods for his success?

    Just askin'......
    ipot

    I actually like to see people fervent about their faith as long as they’re not strapping bombs to their children and sending them into markets.  Religious arguments are won by discussion and reason – bringing someone to a conclusion they cannot deny, leading to a change of heart.

     

    Why shouldn't this be enough?  Why can't we still be fulfilled even though we may go "poof" someday and then off into the abyss.  Why should we think that salvation exists somewhere else?  or hinges on the existence of another sphere?
    passfirst

    What do I think of god? The fictional figure head of history's greatest political party.
    zbellino

    Sometimes it’s hard to argue scripture so let me give you a personal story.  When I was young, my family and my uncle’s family messed around with the Ouija board.  Two people (one from each family) could get the thing moving extremely fast.  One person would ask a question, then the thing started moving.  My Dad would write down letters as a fourth person shouted them out.  After the thing stopped moving, my Dad would separate the letters with slashes, into words.  They were real answers (grammatically correct with no mis-spellings) to the questions asked.  This “being” called himself “Loving Spirit”.  We asked him how Grandpa was doing (as well as lots of other questions) and he would say “Paddy is doing fine.  He’s right here.”  You can believe me or not, but I swear to God this is the truth.  I wish my Dad had saved all those papers (I would have written a book about it), but we finally got a clue that demons were behind the whole thing and they are REAL!  Their game is deception.  Now, I know there are demons which leads me to the conclusions that there is a God and He loves us and is doing everything He can to get us into heaven if we would just listen and stop rejecting Him.  He loves big families and heaven is a big place.  Salvation is true and necessary if you ever want to play football in heaven.

    even if tebow is a grandstander is it fair to call a christian a hypocrite because they are not perfect by the bible's standards- you see this charge often from the communists in the press and general public- i don't think practicing christians think they are prefect- i mean didnt they come up with that all that original sin jazz anyways- 
    patthepatriot666
    Christians are perfect in spirit because they have been given new spirits by God, not because they have done anything to deserve it.  But Christians have bodies and minds which are imperfect, that must be controlled by those spirits.  When that doesn’t happen (which is all the time), we have demonstrated sin, which is again, why we need our Savior everyday.

     

    3.) He runs/sponsors hate campaigns on national television
    zbellino
    How is doing a commercial that urges women to keep their child instead of aborting it a hate campaign?  If you were to say abortion is a hate crime, I would have to agree with you.  Actually, it’s a love of self crime, or a love of lifestyle crime that kills innocents.

    The media is anti-Christ not anti-Tebow. Funny when you consider Christians are some of the biggest hypocrites around
    glenr
    Thank God they are saved right?

    Explain then why Christians are constantly spewing hate for those who don't agree with them? They can't even get along with each other.
    glenr
    Again, we need a Savior, just like you and everyone else.

     

    Scripture.
    It's not just for breakfast anymore.

    Wink

    P-Mike

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!!!!!!

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Dude, you're reading too much into my replyI have no problem with Tim Tebow and how he wears his religious beliefs on his own sleeve - he's not in my face with anything.  I was speaking more in general terms.  Clear now? You, however, are in my face about your religious beliefs.  So chill out, will ya?  This is a football forum, not a religious forum. 
    Posted by Yukon-Cornelius[/QUOTE]

    You did say, you "quickly decided religion was not for me"...and I read too much into your reply? That's funny. When your religion was out for the count, did God go with it? I apologize for putting a mirror in your face. Sorry.
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Good words. But I've even heard him say he doesn't want his faith to be a role model for kids, he feels the kids should direct to Christ for the role model. I grew up a catholic, did the alter boy thing, ect. ect. But in 1971 I listened to the first three records by Black Sabbath, and that's where i really began to understand religion. And the funny thing is Black Sabbath was not only the first heavy metal band, but one could consider them the first Christian rock bamd, as they sang songs that warned of evil, and the teachings of Christ, and of peace.
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]

      It's funny. i grew up in the 70's also and Black Sabbath were always considered satan worshipers but when you listened to the lyrics it was so much the opposite. Tebow would probably enjoy Black Sabbath (the Ozzy' Sabbath not the Dio one, well not Technical Ecstacy which is awful). Master of Reality is one of the greatest records of all time.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yukon-Cornelius. Show Yukon-Cornelius's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : You did say, you "quickly decided religion was not for me"...and I read too much into your reply? That's funny. When you religion was out for the count, did God go with it? I apologize for putting a mirror in your face. Sorry.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    I didn't say anything about God, so yes, you are reading into things too much.  I said religion - there's a big difference, in my opinion.  Your opinion is different, and that's OK with me.  I don't need what I believe to be foisted upon anybody else, as I'm comfortable with what I believe and how I got to that point. Tebow (and you obviously) have different beliefs from me, and I can accept that.  It doesn't bother me.  What does bother me is somebody getting up in my face about my beliefs and telling me how I should think about religion. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    He can do whatever he wants, as long as he and everybody else understands that he and those of his persuasion do not have a monoploy on the truth, because of someting they believe but cannot prove.  Its a matter of faith and faith cannot be the truth, it's simply belief  That's my issue, that the religious believe that only they hold the truth and since I'm not talking just about Christians, just how many different versions of the truth can their be and don't get me started on all the myths they espouse.  So go ahead and point to the sky I have no problem with it but I'll be wondering what real interest any God has in a football game or who plays in it and how they fare.  Really....
     
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    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... :   It's funny. i grew up in the 70's also and Black Sabbath were always considered satan worshipers but when you listened to the lyrics it was so much the opposite. Tebow would probably enjoy Black Sabbath (the Ozzy' Sabbath not the Dio one, well not Technical Ecstacy which is awful). Master of Reality is one of the greatest records of all time.
    Posted by ccnsd[/QUOTE]

    If you listen to Sabbath records backwards while standing on one foot with your left thumb in your butt supposedly you can hear Satan worship. Or was that the Beatles? Or Def Leppard? Of course if you read the Bible onto tape and then play it backwards you can do the same thing. The trick is someone wants to hear something and listens long enough eventually they'll hear a combination of sounds they can interpet to support their position.

    Remember the Def Leppard suicide lawsuit? The parents claimed their kid killed himself after listening to the same song over and over for days. Yet the parents never thought to go talk to their kid and find out why he was locked in his room listening to the same song over and over for days.
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]Great thread with good discussion.   A few points:  wozzy Nobody can force religion on anybody.   Even if I hold a gun to your head and demand that you believe, you would say you believe, but just so I don’t shoot you.   There would be no real change in your heart, just an outward statement that means nothing.   Christianity requires a change of heart, down in the spirit.   Can we please stop with “stop force feeding me” argument.   It’s impossible and it’s an entire smokescreen to blur the real issue.
    Posted by 347pg[/QUOTE]

    I'll let the native's of North and South America know this, they'll be relieved.

    And still here are are, still discussing it on this FOOTBALL forum... 
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : z - I may be in the few that sees a lot of sense in your points. I work in media (film specificially); I also teach it at the univ. level.  If anything is so blatantly obvious it's how the media scratches the monkey on Tebow's back because they know he will open his mouth about this stuff.  They bait him; it's good for ratings.  And as for your point #3, that's when I just threw my hands in the air in disgust I don't know Tebow personally, and his faith stuff is his business.  The only thing I will politely disagree about is the "false god" thing.  Whether you, I, or 8 million people in the world think god is "false" doesn't make it so.  It is essentially one of the most circularly debated questions of reason in the history of philosophy. As Slavoj Zizek, the modern critical theorist/philospher/avowed atheist said - if God suddenly and defintively appeared, he would say: "Hey man! So you do exist!  Well, nice to meet ya!"
    Posted by ipot[/QUOTE]

    I also work at the Uni, and Zizek is the man. I met him briefly at Loyola. One might say, since you are familiar with him, that he and I are in the same field. 

    I think he is the perfect person to discuss 'falsity' in this sense. Public appeals of this nature are the epitome of operating under the cover of the BIG OTHER, in his words. 

    Zizek's very concept of the divine is something unmediated, immediate, and without reference to any previously existing code, what Badiou calls a false event. 

    My claim that the God he is whispering prayers to is false has nothing to do with whether or not God exists or does not, I won't make that claim as it's epistemologicially off limits ... it merely reflects the fact that the symbolic acts he performs for the national media are nothing more than window dressing to avoid the absence of the 'real' in any symbolic order, but specifically the absence of the real in HIS symbolic order. 

    Appeals to preternatural authority seek to reify seeming present part of that symbol. They are performatives only -- the narcisstic reflection of his (g)od in himself, who is nothing but an absence until Tebow proves otherwise.  

    Moreover, it's a sham. The way he closes his eyes, and acts as if he is having a sanctimonious 'private' moment, all the while completely aware that this privacy is really spectacular and thus a social symbol on display.

    Lastly, I am entirely entitled to that opinion.  As someone who has actually spent time at seminaries, I cannot rectify any of Tebow's actions with his pretense. His brand of piety, to me, is nothing but falsity, and thus heresy. 
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : I didn't say anything about God, so yes, you are reading into things too much.  I said religion - there's a big difference, in my opinion.  Your opinion is different, and that's OK with me.  I don't need what I believe to be foisted upon anybody else, as I'm comfortable with what I believe and how I got to that point. Tebow (and you obviously) have different beliefs from me, and I can accept that.  It doesn't bother me.  What does bother me is somebody getting up in my face about my beliefs and telling me how I should think about religion. 
    Posted by Yukon-Cornelius[/QUOTE]

    Yukon. Don't get bullied.

    And don't surrender to false dillemmas.

    There is no incongruity with a distaste for 'Religion' and belief in, ambivalence toward, uncertainty about, faith in, any form of 'divinity.'

    People who say otherwise are selling the snake oil of false authenticity. 

     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    You know what I'd like to see . . . Two nfl teams go at it with all 22 players being devout Christians, thanking their lord after each successfuly play.  First down - "Thank you lord," Sack - "Thank you lord," TD - "Thank you lord," interception, "Thank you lord." 
    Now that would be rich!
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : I didn't say anything about God, so yes, you are reading into things too much.  I said religion - there's a big difference, in my opinion.  Your opinion is different, and that's OK with me.  I don't need what I believe to be foisted upon anybody else, as I'm comfortable with what I believe and how I got to that point. Tebow (and you obviously) have different beliefs from me, and I can accept that.  It doesn't bother me.  What does bother me is somebody getting up in my face about my beliefs and telling me how I should think about religion. 
    Posted by Yukon-Cornelius[/QUOTE]

    Let me ask you straight up then (as you and I perhaps share similar thoughts that "religion" is manmade) what happened to the divine higher power when you eschewed the religion of your parents?
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE] There is no incongruity with a distaste for 'Religion' and belief in, ambivalence toward, uncertainty about, faith in, any form of 'divinity.' Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Exactly!

    So why not seek truth rather than dismiss another human's (Tebow's) experience (or expression) with the divine?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]You know what I'd like to see . . . Two nfl teams go at it with all 22 players being devout Christians, thanking their lord after each successfuly play.  First down - "Thank you lord," Sack - "Thank you lord," TD - "Thank you lord," interception, "Thank you lord."  Now that would be rich!
    Posted by BelichickforPresident[/QUOTE]

    Your humor causes me to smile. I imagine such a game beyond the pearly gates. Kurt Warner and Roger Staubach could be opposing QBs with possibly Ray Lewis and Mike Singletary staring them down at middle linebacker. It would be fun to see smash-mouth played by men of conviction and true character, wouldn't it?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    Western Oregon, can i just ask how would you feel if Tebow rather than a devout christian, was a gay man and talked about how he loved his boyfriend after every game he'd ever played? Would that annoy you? I know Tebow talking about the lord annoys me and i'm not gay and i'm not even sure if i'm a believer or not. I do know that i'd prefer he'd play the game rather than talking about Jesus all the time. It's my opinion that whatever way you are inclined you should just be that way yourself within yourself. Not shove it in people's faces on national tv. Put the glove on your hand man see how you feel about it! 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    I've got nothing against Tebow by the way it's the place he play, Brady's awful in Denver I don't want them becoming a contender for his last years in the league!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from nolastname. Show nolastname's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    Ray Lewis - "true character" - did you really post that?  Oh well, to each his own.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]Western Oregon, can i just ask how would you feel if Tebow rather than a devout christian, was a gay man and talked about how he loved his boyfriend after every game he'd ever played? Would that annoy you? I know Tebow talking about the lord annoys me and i'm not gay and i'm not even sure if i'm a believer or not. I do know that i'd prefer he'd play the game rather than talking about Jesus all the time. It's my opinion that whatever way you are inclined you should just be that way yourself within yourself. Not shove it in people's faces on national tv. Put the glove on your hand man see how you feel about it! 
    Posted by danemcmenamin[/QUOTE]

    As this is not a discussion about the gay lifestyle I see no reason to enter my "opinion" about that lifestyle as it is irrelevant to the current thread.

    Beyond this, I fully understand what you are saying, "...just shut up and play football dude." I can't say as I agree or disagree because men will do what they will. My sense is that those who react toward Tebow judge God based on Tebow's human instincts, behaviours and words.

    The tenet of this thread is that people see others who are different and judge the foundations of their behaviour as being fundamentally flawed BECAUSE they are different.

    I ask people engaged in this thread to think about why thy are offended...is it because they have an issue with a divine Father?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TD_Jesus. Show TD_Jesus's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : I also work at the Uni, and Zizek is the man. I met him briefly at Loyola. One might say, since you are familiar with him, that he and I are in the same field.  I think he is the perfect person to discuss 'falsity' in this sense. Public appeals of this nature are the epitome of operating under the cover of the BIG OTHER, in his words.  Zizek's very concept of the divine is something unmediated, immediate, and without reference to any previously existing code, what Badiou calls a false event.  My claim that the God he is whispering prayers to is false has nothing to do with whether or not God exists or does not, I won't make that claim as it's epistemologicially off limits ... it merely reflects the fact that the symbolic acts he performs for the national media are nothing more than window dressing to avoid the absence of the 'real' in any symbolic order, but specifically the absence of the real in HIS symbolic order.  Appeals to preternatural authority seek to reify seeming present part of that symbol. They are performatives only -- the narcisstic reflection of his (g)od in himself, who is nothing but an absence until Tebow proves otherwise.   Moreover, it's a sham. The way he closes his eyes, and acts as if he is having a sanctimonious 'private' moment, all the while completely aware that this privacy is really spectacular and thus a social symbol on display. Lastly, I am entirely entitled to that opinion.  As someone who has actually spent time at seminaries, I cannot rectify any of Tebow's actions with his pretense. His brand of piety, to me, is nothing but falsity, and thus heresy. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    A bunch of God hating Communists coming out of Universities. What a surprise.
    Your god is one that lets you do anything you want with no consequences. You and your people are responsible for the decline of the United States and the world today. You'd fit in well with the perverts at Penn ST and Syracuse. Those are your gods.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]Ray Lewis - "true character" - did you really post that?  Oh well, to each his own.
    Posted by nolastname[/QUOTE]

    Have you followed Ray Lewis SINCE his run-in with the law in Atlanta in, what was it...2000? I say, "...always discern the truth by having information, which leads to knowledge, which leads to good decisions."

    It would seem you have judged Ray by viewing his past. I hope we live in a culture that gives second chances.

    Read up on Ray today. You may find someone you didn't expect.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : A bunch of God hating Communists coming out of Universities. What a surprise. Your god is one that lets you do anything you want with no consequences. You and your people are responsible for the decline of the United States and the world today. You'd fit in well with the perverts at Penn ST and Syracuse. Those are your gods.
    Posted by TD_Jesus[/QUOTE]

    Might you do me a favor?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]Do people really have that big of a problem with someone being religious? To each his own, who says every religious guy has to be like Kurt Warner
    Posted by CaptainZdeno33[/QUOTE]

    The problem is not "being religious". 95% of the human population believes in a supreme being. 

    The problem is overt religiosity. You believe in your god. We get it. You believe everything you have is due to HIM. Fine, that too. Now stop repeating it every damn time we meet. (In this paragraph "you" refers to anyone displaying overt religiosity, like Tebow).
     
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