Great thread with good discussion. A few points:
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Sums it up for me. I use Kurt Warner as my guide here, he acknowleged his faith, but didn't beat me to death with it.
Thats an excellent piece to quote. So true and what i always tell folks. Do your prayer in private. Noone needs to see it. Your heart is known by the most high
This scripture is telling people not to pray to be seen by men. I can’t read his heart, but I don’t think Tebow is praying to be praised by men. I think he’s sincere in trying to please God I can’t imagine he likes the attention (negative) he receives.
The only time it really bothers me is when someone is forcing their religion on someone else
Agree fully CZ.
How's Tebow forcing his religion on you? You can always look away after he scores. I doubt Tebow is converting you by you watching his routines.
But I guess that's the problem most people have with religions, they insist on force feeding it to you when all you wanted to talk about is football.
Nobody can force religion on anybody. Even if I hold a gun to your head and demand that you believe, you would say you believe, but just so I don’t shoot you. There would be no real change in your heart, just an outward statement that means nothing. Christianity requires a change of heart, down in the spirit. Can we please stop with “stop force feeding me” argument. It’s impossible and it’s an entire smokescreen to blur the real issue.
…who says every religious guy has to be like Kurt Warner
True. Expressions of faith are not cookie cutter and have an element of individualism.
The more I looked and thought it's because he's a better person than I am. He does things for others, he helps build churches in the Phillipines, he works with underprivaledged children, he goes to hospitals and sits with the dying, he truly cares about people and 99% of the rest of us don't.
I like Tebow. He's certainly a better guy than I am and I would also agree that I never hear anyone on the radio say anything good about him. It's usually ridicule and sometimes pertaining to his beliefs. If I had children He's one athlete I wouldn't mind having them use as a role model. Not specifically because of the religion but this guy does charity work like there is no tomorrow. He's also a pretty good football player.
Being a good guy doesn’t get you into heaven. Tebow doesn’t do good deeds to get to heaven, he does good deeds because he’s going to heaven. If you could earn your way into heaven, Jesus would never have had to come down and die on the cross. You can’t earn it. It’s the ultimate free lunch. If you could earn it, God would owe it to you, and God owes no man anything.
I'm not a fan of anyone who pimps his religion in front of TV cameras.
Everyone else pimps everything they can in front of cameras. Do you have trouble with that as well? Why just religion?
Good words. But I've even heard him say he doesn't want his faith to be a role model for kids, he feels the kids should direct to Christ for the role model.
Yes, men can be a sign on the highway, but not the destination
I grew up a catholic, did the alter boy thing, ect. ect. But in 1971 I listened to the first three records by Black Sabbath, and that's where i really began to understand religion.
And the funny thing is Black Sabbath was not only the first heavy metal band, but one could consider them the first Christian rock bamd, as they sang songs that warned of evil, and the teachings of Christ, and of peace.
Interesting, never heard that before.
I agree and for that matter, how do we know Jesus was a good carpenter?
Well, he made the world. I’m thinking he could put a chair or two together.
One more time, folks, the ONLY reason we are so aware of Tebow's love of his faith is because the MEDIA continually asks him about it…
Time to get off the Hate Tebow For His Profession Of Faith.
Not a ding, just a clarification. He has a love of God, not of faith. He does have a profession of faith about his God.
Considering Jesus is the son of God (hence is part of God) and there is a little rule about not idealizing someone/thing to the same level as God wouldn't this mean all those looking at Tebow as if he was Jesus are in fact breaking commandments?
Don’t think they’re looking at him as Jesus, they’re just happy a Christian is doing well, or at least winning games.
last i heard, this is america and we are free to practice religion anyway we want so long as it does not harm anyone.
Yes, if people could just remember there are two clauses, one for the establishment of religion and one for the free exercise thereof. It’s freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.
maybe the reason peple get unconfomfortable with him is this...
he is living his life for a higher purpose
we are defensive about the fact that we don't live our life for a higher purpose
Agree. In that instance he is a good example
I really don't think Jesus cares about football or any sport!!! I wonder what people would be saying if a player started praising Allah? I'm sure it would cause some controversy.
Jesus cares about everything in our lives. And we won’t know about the Muslim player until one steps up and does it.
I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ…
Good lyrics except for the above. In actuality, every single one of us killed Christ. He died for ALL our sins and sin without exception.
It's amazing how much time Jesus spent denying he was divine, not denying God himself.
“Before Abraham was, I am….”
In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Amen Brother! This is sports, something I enjoy in part as a distraction politics where at least three presidential candidates hear voices they presume are God whose told them to run the country. To beleive that with all of the starvation, rape, mass muder, slavery, drought, etc. . . Yes, God takes off Sunday, (and Monday & Thursdays nights) to pick winners & losers in sporting events. Now if only those darn Jets, or Raiders, or Chiefs prayed harder God would favor them more. Yeah, that's what decides winners & losers.
Posted by BrocktonMike
God is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. He never ties or takes a day off. He can pick winners while caring for millions of starving children. Don’t have such a small concept of Him.
Agreed. Tebow is sacrilege. And so is Tebow worship. Anyone who is truly Christian wouldn't even watch professional football because it truly defiles the Sabbath.
The Sabbath is, and always has been on Saturday. Sunday is the Lord’s day.
Greed and lust for power aren't either but that doesn't seem to bother the Evangelical right. They're all hypocrites.
Exactly why we need a savior. There room for you and everyone else too.
And yet some of them quote evidence as to why greed is good, abandoning their fellow man is not bad, prejudice, hatred, war are all justified, all from the Bible itself.
I have not been to that Church.
" ... in these last days there are pickers and choosers of God's words who cannot endure the practical part of scripture; they are disgusted at duty, they abhor responsibilty, they disembowel texts of their plain meanings, they wrest Scriptures to their own destruction." Ps 17
Z – I don’t know what Bible you’re reading, but that ain’t Psalm 17, not even close. What’s up with that???
This uproar of him being in your face reminds me of awhile back when the Dean of a college (Harvard I think) banned any military recruiters from coming on campus. Not that I think people should join the military, but I find it absurd that even being asked was so offensive to people that they would go to great lengths to "fight the tyranny" they were being subjected to. And Tebow doesn't even go so far as to ask you to be a Christian (god forbid), he simply promoted that he thinks it has been a positive effect in his life.
I'm picturing alot of people sitting around the thanksgiving table this year and when Uncle Joe says "Wow, this is some great turkey" they respond
"Screw you Uncle Joe!, Why are you always trying to push your pro-turkey agenda on me. Get out of my face with all this turkey is great, turkey is the only way to live. You're such a hypocrite, just last week I saw you eating chicken. If you like turkey so much why do you feel the need to come out here in public and eat it, can't you just do it at home alone and let the rest of us live our lives. Go to heII."
Thanks for that. That was funny
Keeping recruiters off of campuses, something I support, isn't about 'tyranny' or being offended ... it's about letting young people grow up a bit before they make a heavy decision that could alter their lives forever.
So I’m assuming by these words you have issues with schools handing out condoms to 5th graders????
until religion is used to persecute and to physically harm, and to commit genocide. which is everyday (including by christians).
If you’re including Christians that say they are, but really aren’t, then ok. But Christians currently aren’t using force to change people’s hearts.
What would be American society's reaction if Tebow were Jewish and sat out on a Saturday game for his faith?
Or if Tebow were Muslim and kneeled and bowed his head down on the ground in the endzone to thank God?
Or if Tebow were Hindu and thanked Vishnu and multiple gods for his success?
I actually like to see people fervent about their faith as long as they’re not strapping bombs to their children and sending them into markets. Religious arguments are won by discussion and reason – bringing someone to a conclusion they cannot deny, leading to a change of heart.
Why shouldn't this be enough? Why can't we still be fulfilled even though we may go "poof" someday and then off into the abyss. Why should we think that salvation exists somewhere else? or hinges on the existence of another sphere?
What do I think of god? The fictional figure head of history's greatest political party.
Sometimes it’s hard to argue scripture so let me give you a personal story. When I was young, my family and my uncle’s family messed around with the Ouija board. Two people (one from each family) could get the thing moving extremely fast. One person would ask a question, then the thing started moving. My Dad would write down letters as a fourth person shouted them out. After the thing stopped moving, my Dad would separate the letters with slashes, into words. They were real answers (grammatically correct with no mis-spellings) to the questions asked. This “being” called himself “Loving Spirit”. We asked him how Grandpa was doing (as well as lots of other questions) and he would say “Paddy is doing fine. He’s right here.” You can believe me or not, but I swear to God this is the truth. I wish my Dad had saved all those papers (I would have written a book about it), but we finally got a clue that demons were behind the whole thing and they are REAL! Their game is deception. Now, I know there are demons which leads me to the conclusions that there is a God and He loves us and is doing everything He can to get us into heaven if we would just listen and stop rejecting Him. He loves big families and heaven is a big place. Salvation is true and necessary if you ever want to play football in heaven.
even if tebow is a grandstander is it fair to call a christian a hypocrite because they are not perfect by the bible's standards- you see this charge often from the communists in the press and general public- i don't think practicing christians think they are prefect- i mean didnt they come up with that all that original sin jazz anyways-
Christians are perfect in spirit because they have been given new spirits by God, not because they have done anything to deserve it. But Christians have bodies and minds which are imperfect, that must be controlled by those spirits. When that doesn’t happen (which is all the time), we have demonstrated sin, which is again, why we need our Savior everyday.
3.) He runs/sponsors hate campaigns on national television
How is doing a commercial that urges women to keep their child instead of aborting it a hate campaign? If you were to say abortion is a hate crime, I would have to agree with you. Actually, it’s a love of self crime, or a love of lifestyle crime that kills innocents.
The media is anti-Christ not anti-Tebow. Funny when you consider Christians are some of the biggest hypocrites around
Thank God they are saved right?
Explain then why Christians are constantly spewing hate for those who don't agree with them? They can't even get along with each other.
Again, we need a Savior, just like you and everyone else.
It's not just for breakfast anymore.