Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yukon-Cornelius. Show Yukon-Cornelius's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Let me ask you straight up then (as you and I perhaps share similar thoughts that "religion" is manmade) what happened to the divine higher power when you eschewed the religion of your parents?
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    Actually, that's a good way to put it - "eschewed the religion of your parents".  I think we probably do share similar thoughts then, but that's probably a topic better taken offline. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yukon-Cornelius. Show Yukon-Cornelius's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Yukon. Don't get bullied. And don't surrender to false dillemmas. There is no incongruity with a distaste for 'Religion' and belief in, ambivalence toward, uncertainty about, faith in, any form of 'divinity.' People who say otherwise are selling the snake oil of false authenticity. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the support, zb, and I agree with what you're saying.  Cheers.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : As this is not a discussion about the gay lifestyle I see no reason to enter my "opinion" about that lifestyle as it is irrelevant to the current thread. Beyond this, I fully understand what you are saying, "...just shut up and play football dude." I can't say as I agree or disagree because men will do what they will. My sense is that those who react toward Tebow judge God based on Tebow's human instincts, behaviours and words. The tenet of this thread is that people see others who are different and judge the foundations of their behaviour as being fundamentally flawed BECAUSE they are different. I ask people engaged in this thread to think about why thy are offended...is it because they have an issue with a divine Father?
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    Great answer man, I have nothing against the divine father to be honest, my family's pretty religous I just havn't really decided I don't know if I ever intend to. It's not necessary from Tebow just, I think he's been doing this his whole life, the bible verses on the eye patches in college and so on. It also kind of makes me wonder if he'd be better suited to not talking about God and talking like Brady for example, people don't want an absent minded QB to lead their franchise. Brady talks about the game after the game, Tebow talks about the lord after the game. His job is QB not preacher or jubilant admirer of the divine powers. The guy's an awesome athlete it makes me wonder whether he got it easy in college and because of that, i wonder how much study he does, he seems to wing it until the final drive every week and wins. The offense is effective for him because it keeps the clock rolling takes away scoring oppourtunitys for the oppenent and keeps the D fresh. Look I don't think God needs a preacher in the NFL I can't see why he'd want it and honestly do you want to hear the same stuff for the next 10-15 years if he does become a franchise QB...honestly? I see it like this, if God created everything for us out of the goodness of himself he dosn't need public thanks, I don't do a favor for someone and expect something in return. I know myself I did good and so do they this is what prayer and churches are for to praise God in a private manner. Which I personally feel God decided was the right way to thank him in the first place
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Actually, that's a good way to put it - "eschewed the religion of your parents".  I think we probably do share similar thoughts then, but that's probably a topic better taken offline. Posted by Yukon-Cornelius[/QUOTE]

    I recall standing in a pew about 2/3 toward the back and straining to hear a parrish priest speaking (with his back toward his sheep) Latin! I turned to my mother and said, "What's he saying and why doesn't he face us?" lolol

    I have many Catholic friends yet know that we have an advocate without needing a confessional.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Great answer man, I have nothing against the divine father to be honest, my family's pretty religous I just havn't really decided I don't know if I ever intend to. It's not necessary from Tebow just, I think he's been doing this his whole life, the bible verses on the eye patches in college and so on. It also kind of makes me wonder if he'd be better suited to not talking about God and talking like Brady for example, people don't want an absent minded QB to lead their franchise. Brady talks about the game after the game, Tebow talks about the lord after the game. His job is QB not preacher or jubilant admirer of the divine powers. The guy's an awesome athlete it makes me wonder whether he got it easy in college and because of that, i wonder how much study he does, he seems to wing it until the final drive every week and wins. The offense is effective for him because it keeps the clock rolling takes away scoring oppourtunitys for the oppenent and keeps the D fresh. Look I don't think God needs a preacher in the NFL I can't see why he'd want it and honestly do you want to hear the same stuff for the next 10-15 years if he does become a franchise QB...honestly? I see it like this, if God created everything for us out of the goodness of himself he dosn't need public thanks, I don't do a favor for someone and expect something in return. I know myself I did good and so do they this is what prayer and churches are for to praise God in a private manner. Which I personally feel God decided was the right way to thank him in the first place
    Posted by danemcmenamin[/QUOTE]


    It was refreshing to read your post. Thanks for weighing-in.
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Have you followed Ray Lewis SINCE his run-in with the law in Atlanta in, what was it...2000? I say, "...always discern the truth by having information, which leads to knowledge, which leads to good decisions." It would seem you have judged Ray by viewing his past. I hope we live in a culture that gives second chances. Read up on Ray today. You may find someone you didn't expect.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    I love Ray, but he's a muderer man, that's a mortal sin and I know you guys arn't big on that kind of thing. Everyone knows what happened read about it yourself if you havn't it's damning. Just becuase he goes around talking like a preacher now dosn't mean he's changed. He just contains it to the field now that's the difference in him

     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : I love Ray, but he's a muderer man, that's a mortal sin and I know you guys arn't big on that kind of thing. Everyone knows what happened read about it yourself if you havn't it's damning. Just becuase he goes around talking like a preacher now dosn't mean he's changed. He just contains it to the field now that's the difference in him Posted by danemcmenamin[/QUOTE]

    As stated, I leave judgement to the Father as I have access to but a portion of what happened that ill-fated morning in Atlanta. I've learned that only he who has not erred may cast the first stone. I do see that Ray has inspired his family, team and his mentors alike since that day.
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : A bunch of God hating Communists coming out of Universities. What a surprise. Your god is one that lets you do anything you want with no consequences. You and your people are responsible for the decline of the United States and the world today. You'd fit in well with the perverts at Penn ST and Syracuse. Those are your gods.
    Posted by TD_Jesus[/QUOTE]

    What's the Golden rule man. God won't like you either if you continue a path of discrimination. One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. Do you think he's proud of you for this behaviour. God first of all dosn't need people to believe in him secondly he dosn't need an a ss like you preaching on a NE patriots football forum. Tebow would probably be ashamed of you too by the way.....that's the real kicker!

     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]Western Oregon, can i just ask how would you feel if Tebow rather than a devout christian, was a gay man and talked about how he loved his boyfriend after every game he'd ever played? Would that annoy you? I know Tebow talking about the lord annoys me and i'm not gay and i'm not even sure if i'm a believer or not. I do know that i'd prefer he'd play the game rather than talking about Jesus all the time. It's my opinion that whatever way you are inclined you should just be that way yourself within yourself. Not shove it in people's faces on national tv. Put the glove on your hand man see how you feel about it! 
    Posted by danemcmenamin[/QUOTE]

    this is a really stupid analogy.  it doesn't make sense. homosexuality isn't even close to a religion. there's more to it than the question of being right or wrong.
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : this is a really stupid analogy.  it doesn't make sense. homosexuality isn't even close to a religion. there's more to it than the question of being right or wrong.
    Posted by phsmith8[/QUOTE]

    My point was would you like someone being in your face talking about their boyfriend or would you like someone being in your face about their love for the lord. They're not the same but the way they are expressed can be similar. It's about expression of love really. Alot of Americans today would denounce a man for stating his love for another man because they say there's no need. Well where's the need to express your love for the lord on national TV when your the QB of a sports team? 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    Take away the holier than thou stuff and isn't Tebow just like Doug Flutie back in the 80s, with a lesser arm. Nobody wanted Flutie coming out of BC because the thought was they'd have to build an offense around his game, and no NFL was willing to do that. He didn't fit the mold of the 6'4 drop back QB. But he ended up having a 12 year NFL career even after playing 8 years in the CFL. So maybe if some team had committed to him when he came out, he'd have been a great NFL QB?

    Wonder of Tebow will have to leave the country to find a team willing to make that sort of commitment?

    The difference is Flutie could make all the throws (in addition to being a better than average runner), whereas Tebow is a run first guy.  
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]Take away the holier than thou stuff and isn't Tebow just like Doug Flutie back in the 80s, with a lesser arm. Nobody wanted Flutie coming out of BC because the thought was they'd have to build an offense around his game, and no NFL was willing to do that. He didn't fit the mold of the 6'4 drop back QB. But he ended up having a 12 year NFL career even after playing 8 years in the CFL. So maybe if some team had committed to him when he came out, he'd have been a great NFL QB? Wonder of Tebow will have to leave the country to find a team willing to make that sort of commitment? The difference is Flutie could make all the throws (in addition to being a better than average runner), whereas Tebow is a run first guy.  
    Posted by Muzwell[/QUOTE]

    Bad comparison, Flutie was more Drew Brees than Tebow. Flutie was accurate but stood below 6 feet, that is why they didn't want him and yet still he got drafted.  Even after his rookie and first few season's Flutie still completed 10% more of his passes than Tebow.  Tebow can't throw accurately and with authority, that is why his detractors knocked his draft position and still do. 

    Anyone blaming his religion is looking at it through stained glass spectacles. Take religion out of the conversation and we're not having this conversation, in fact we're not talking about him at all.

     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : I also work at the Uni, and Zizek is the man. I met him briefly at Loyola. One might say, since you are familiar with him, that he and I are in the same field.  I think he is the perfect person to discuss 'falsity' in this sense. Public appeals of this nature are the epitome of operating under the cover of the BIG OTHER, in his words.  Zizek's very concept of the divine is something unmediated, immediate, and without reference to any previously existing code, what Badiou calls a false event.  My claim that the God he is whispering prayers to is false has nothing to do with whether or not God exists or does not, I won't make that claim as it's epistemologicially off limits ... it merely reflects the fact that the symbolic acts he performs for the national media are nothing more than window dressing to avoid the absence of the 'real' in any symbolic order, but specifically the absence of the real in HIS symbolic order.  Appeals to preternatural authority seek to reify seeming present part of that symbol. They are performatives only -- the narcisstic reflection of his (g)od in himself, who is nothing but an absence until Tebow proves otherwise.   Moreover, it's a sham. The way he closes his eyes, and acts as if he is having a sanctimonious 'private' moment, all the while completely aware that this privacy is really spectacular and thus a social symbol on display. Lastly, I am entirely entitled to that opinion.  As someone who has actually spent time at seminaries, I cannot rectify any of Tebow's actions with his pretense. His brand of piety, to me, is nothing but falsity, and thus heresy. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

      well put  

      

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    "I cannot rectify any of Tebow's actions with his pretense. His brand of piety, to me, is nothing but falsity, and thus heresy." -zbellino
     
    Any man judging another is still judgement, "well put" or not. We are neither here to rectify nor condemn Tim Tebow. I began this thread to cause people to pause and consider their thoughts on God, not Tim's behaviours, piety, falsity or heresy.

    All that aside, I'm still just sayin' that perhaps the problem people have with Tim Tebow is not an issue with Tim Tebow's action but an issue with who Tim Tebow honors.
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]"I cannot rectify any of Tebow's actions with his pretense. His brand of piety, to me, is nothing but falsity, and thus heresy." -zbellino   Any man judging another is still judgement, "well put" or not. We are neither here to rectify nor condemn Tim Tebow. I began this thread to cause people to pause and consider their thoughts on God, not Tim's behaviours, piety, falsity or heresy. All that aside, I'm still just sayin' that perhaps the problem people have with Tim Tebow is not an issue with Tim Tebow's action but an issue with who Tim Tebow honors.
    Posted by WesternOregon[/QUOTE]

    Why do you generalize?  Who Tebow honors might be a problem for SOME people.  To a lot of others, including myself, it's not a matter of who but when and where.

    Personally, I couldn't care less if he worshiped, God, Buddha, Allah, Jim Jones, Satin, or Saint Nick.  
    During or after a football game and on National tv is just not the time or place.

    Does he even take into consideration that he may be offending some people?
    I would think a kind and decent person would consider such things.
    Not that I agree, but the words "Merry Christmas" offend some.
    He doesn't know that?  More likely, doesn't care.  I'd call that self-serving.

    There is a time and place for such and it usually include a commonality amongst people who want to hear it,....Like a church or even the Sunday morning TV sermons. 
    People shouldn't have to put on the mute button or change the channel because they don't want to hear a Sunday sermon during a NFL game.
    One thing is not like the other.
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Why do you generalize?  Who Tebow honors might be a problem for SOME people.  To a lot of others, including myself, it's not a matter of  who but  when and where . Personally, I couldn't care less if he worshiped, God, Buddha, Allah, Jim Jones, Satin, or Saint Nick.   During or after a football game and on National tv is just not the time or place. Does he even take into consideration that he may be offending some people? I would think a kind and decent person would consider such things. Not that I agree, but the words "Merry Christmas" offend some. He doesn't know that?  More likely, doesn't care.  I'd call that self-serving. There is a time and place for such and it usually include a commonality amongst people who want to hear it,....Like a church or even the Sunday morning TV sermons.  People shouldn't have to put on the mute button or change the channel because they don't want to hear a Sunday sermon during a NFL game. One thing is not like the other. Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]


    I generalized? I merely stated, "All that aside, I'm still just sayin' that perhaps the problem people have with Tim Tebow is not an issue with Tim Tebow's action but an issue with who Tim Tebow honors."

    That is not a generalization.

    I apologize for perhaps misinterpreting your comment although it does seem that you have an issue with exactly what I am just sayin'...and not just when and where Tim Tebow is doing what he is doing. My point in initiating this thread is for people to personally reflect upon WHY THEY take offense to what others do. That's all...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... : Bad comparison, Flutie was more Drew Brees than Tebow. Flutie was accurate but stood below 6 feet, that is why they didn't want him and yet still he got drafted...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    I think you missed the point.  I'm not comparing them as athletes, quite obviously they are nothing alike. As I said Flutie could make all the throws whereas Tebow cannot.  Tebow is 235 lbs. and Flutie was 180. They both run well, so there is some similarity.

    Flutie ultimately had to leave the country because no team at that time was willing to change its offensive system to fit his unique abilities.  That's the same thing that Tebow is (or soon will be) dealing with. 

    Like Flutie, Tebow's assets are very different from the prototypical drop back QB. In order to take advantage of his strengths (and to minimize his weaknesses), a team must adapt its offensive approach. Elway has already said that Tebow is not his guy, so presumably Tebow will be looking for a new job next season. So will any team make the sort of commitment required for Tebow to be effective?

    If not, he will be in the exact same boat as Flutie was 20 years or so ago. Thus the comparison.
     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow... :  Like Flutie, Tebow's assets are very different from the prototypical drop back QB. In order to take advantage of his strengths (and to minimize his weaknesses), a team must adapt its offensive approach. Elway has already said that Tebow is not his guy, so presumably Tebow will be looking for a new job next season. So will any team make the sort of commitment required for Tebow to be effective? If not, he will be in the exact same boat as Flutie was 20 years or so ago. Thus the comparison.
    Posted by Muzwell[/QUOTE]

    Well since nobody has ever won a ring with this kind of QB I suspect nobody would be willing to build around it except for a desperate GM trying to sell tickets.  Tebow would look good in Canada, than I wouldn't have to hear about him anymore...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    Yes, I think the problem Tebow will have (and why he may well never again reach the level of success he's having this season) is that no team will change their entire approach. One big problem is that you'd have to have backups that could run the Tebow system effectively.

    Like no coach was willing to commit his future to Flutie back in the 80s (including Raymond Berry), no coach will be willing to do that with Tebow. 

     
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    Re: Just sayin', maybe the problem people have with Tim Tebow...

    Obsess Much?

     

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