just saying

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to Muzwell's comment:


    As NMPL said, Nink won't be snapping the ball, although it would be great if he could. But, it's too risky. A Mallett trade makes all the sense in the world, unless they don't think Garap can play yet. Logically, don't they have to be thinking that they have just as much of a chance to win with Garap as with Mallett? If so, there's no need to keep both of them, they're redundant. 


    Beyond LS, there will be other moves. There are always other moves. TE, OL and LB seem like logical areas where an outsider could be brought in.


    As for the cap and Mankins, yeah there were cap-related reasons to make the trade - to free cash to spend on deals for McCourty and/or Solder and/or Cannon and maybe Vereen (breakout year, anyone?). But, there were also valid football reasons.


    They decided to move on from him because they know they can be just as good or better without him by the end of the year. Fans and media are short term focused, so we look at it and think they're going to have a tough time adjusting. I do expect it to be a process that will take a few weeks to iron out. 


    Mankins' pass blocking was barely adequate, or maybe even less than that. This "Brady's personal protector" talk is nonsense. What, was he walking him to his car after practice? He wasn't protecting him very well on the football field.


    His run blocking was fine, but not like it was five years ago. He's making Pro Bowls on reputation these days. He does bring locker room intangibles and on-field toughness (and penalties). So, on a young team with a terrible OL, he'll help.


    As for the Pats, they'll be just as good at LG by midseason as they were last year and perhaps sooner than that, and maybe even a lot better than that. And, they get a new weapon in the passing game, an element that was missing, and a 4th round pick. 


    I don't think they have a single regret about that trade, personal feelings aside.





    I'm not certain of that.  It's possible, of course, but this list of OL includes a lot of untested guards--and the tested ones (Wendell and Connolly) aren't Pro Bowl caliber.  



    • Barker, Chris

    • Cannon, Marcus

    • Connolly, Dan

    • Devey, Jordan

    • Fleming, Cameron

    • Kline, Josh

    • Solder, Nate

    • Stork, Bryan

    • Vollmer, Sebastian

    • Wendell, Ryan


    I've read the story about moving Vollmer to guard.  That sounds like a bit of a desperation move to me, if true.  Vollmer is very tall to play guard.  Maybe it works, but can he get low enough against the interior D linemen he'll be facing?  It strikes me as an interesting experiment--but I can't say I'm confident it will work. I don't think Kline has played better than Mankins--in either the pass or run game.  And the rest are all very green.  


    I'd also argue with the claim that Mankins has declined that much.  He was excellent most of the time last year.  Yes, he sometimes struggles with quick interior pass rushers--his lateral movement is not his strong point and he tends to play in a phone booth--but he generally is very effective not only in stopping his man, but more important, in helping clean up when other guys get beat.  He helped out Solder a lot on the left side.  It will be interesting to see whether Solder's blocking looks worse without Mankins alongside him. Mankins also took on his man singly a lot, while Connolly and Wendell often double teamed a single rusher.  How does that dynamic look if the blocker in Mankin's spot isn't as good?


    I think we're a little naive to think letting an All-Pro talent like Mankins go won't have a negative effect in the short term.  As I said, I think the deal is a good one, but there's no reason to pretend it doesn't have some real downsides too. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: just saying

    ^if you are this much of an annoying dork with mother syndrome here, i can only imagine how you live your life in general.

    You must have very high blood pressure and your wife and kids must live lonely, smothered and very boring lives.

    My god are you a wet blanket deluxe. You must be a joy to talk to at a party or cookout.

    Focus on your jets.  You do this same crap every year.

    The team is loaded beyond belief and you want to pretend they are not, basically off a mish mash off ol in the 4th preseason game.

    When will it end?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     Saving money is never the issue with the Pats--they are willing to spend as much as the cap allows them to.  Managing the cap, though, is a huge concern, and they try to do it in a way that leaves them the flexibility they need to keep the team competitive every year.  There are lots of trade-offs required to do this, and the Mankins deal is one of those trade-offs.  It has its downside, no doubt.  But hopefully the upside outweighs the downside.  We'll know soon enough. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The 12 Mill that they current have under the cap can be transferred into next year if they don't spend it. But I doubt that they won't spend most of it before the season ends to sign key players.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ^if you are this much of an annoying dork with mother syndrome here, i can only imagine how you live your life in general.

    You must have very high blood pressure and your wife and kids must live lonely, smothered and very boring lives.

    My god are you a wet blanket deluxe. You must be a joy to talk to at a party or cookout.

    Focus on your jets.  You do this same crap every year.

    The team is loaded beyond belief and you want to pretend they are not, basically off a mish mash off ol in the 4th preseason game.

    When will it end?

    [/QUOTE]


    Great post there, Rusty.  That's probably the best football analysis you've given us all year. 

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: just saying

     

    I don't think the plan is about saving money. The plan is about the model they have in place and the value they place on positions and units.  As a fan of this team I am like most fans… I want to see guys like Mankins stay and finish his career here. He was a fierce, nasty presence in the middle of the line who's pass blocking skills were diminishing in the pass happy NFL. Do i like the model this team operates from? Not all the time but the one thing it does allow them to do is be SB competitive year in and year out. I won't say in BB I trust… I will say they have short and long term plans that they seem to be very discipline in adhering to with very few exceptions one being the Revis signing this year. I have been a fan a long time and yes I am frustrated they haven't won at least one or two more SB's but IMHO it hasn't been from a lack of effort on the field or off the field.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm glad that you're not just referring to me as a troll and we can have a meaningful discussion. I find one flaw in what you are trying to say - and you might not agree with me here - but do you feel that it's been our team's business model that has kept us competitive for the last decade or Tom Brady? To me if you remove Tom Brady from that equation the business model would of failed and we would be in no better shape than anyone else. Now that's just my opinion - and I realize it's not popular here. In fact I'd go so far to say our "business model" has prevented us from winning another Super Bowl over the last ten years while we had Brady leading this team. I believe the never ending quest for value and return on our investment has lead us to signing too many players because of their "value", rather than their talent. I could be wrong, but it looks that way to me.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ...

    I think we're a little naive to think letting an All-Pro talent like Mankins go won't have a negative effect in the short term.  As I said, I think the deal is a good one, but there's no reason to pretend it doesn't have some real downsides too. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Good points, I don't disagree and I said as much. It will be a process. Whether Cannon steps in for him (which makes the most sense whether he likes playing guard or not) or someone else (just not Wendell, please God). The point is, by the end of the year when it's time to play for real, they'll be just as good if not better. Solder will have to play better, no doubt.

    There are always trade-offs. Mankins will be 33 with a big salary. He's got a short shelf life in Tampa too. All things must end. They got a nice return, IMO, for a guy whose value is diminishing. The passing game will be better because Brady has a big target he didn't have before. The running game won't be as good in week 1. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    mthurl,you would have to think the cap money remaining is going to be used to extend some of the guys who are up at the end of this year. Perhaps it's Solder, Cannon, Vereen, McCourty, Revis or some combination of those guys. I think we have to wait to see how those dollars are allocated over the next 2 years before we can give a thumbs up or down regarding the cap space.

    As far as Mankins is concerned he will be sorely missed in the run game but even more so in the locker room for his leadership. Based on the eyeball test and the PFF report they must feel they can do better in pass blocking from that position. It will be interesting to see how the O-line develops early in the year and what the O-line will look like at the end of the year.

    I could be wrong but I can't imagine that this move was made without having a plan in place…. I hope i'm not wrong.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, I understand that...signing guys who's contracts are up, etc, but what about right now? What about the team that will be on the field this year? How many more years with Brady will we have? I don't know how things are going to look when Kline misses his block on third down and Brady gets hit before he can even set his feet, which is what happened twice Thursday night to Garoppolo.

    The plan was to keep Mankins, that much is clear because they tried to get him to renegotiate twice this off season and camp. And I shouldn't say that was the plan, the plan was to save money - either way - but the "backup" plan has us saving money and not being as good. So yeah, go lock up Revis, go extend McCourty, but I can tell you right now that this time next year we will still be 6-10 million under the cap heading into the season...just like every one of the past 5 years. We have walked into all these seasons several million dollars under the cap. And for those who say...that's emergency money! Bull crap, the players we bring in during the regular season are cheap nobody's and we cut them two weeks later and sign the next nobody.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think the plan is about saving money. The plan is about the model they have in place and the value they place on positions and units.  As a fan of this team I am like most fans… I want to see guys like Mankins stay and finish his career here. He was a fierce, nasty presence in the middle of the line who's pass blocking skills were diminishing in the pass happy NFL. Do i like the model this team operates from? Not all the time but the one thing it does allow them to do is be SB competitive year in and year out. I won't say in BB I trust… I will say they have short and long term plans that they seem to be very discipline in adhering to with very few exceptions one being the Revis signing this year. I have been a fan a long time and yes I am frustrated they haven't won at least one or two more SB's but IMHO it hasn't been from a lack of effort on the field or off the field.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Very well put Ghost. Needless to say I agree with you.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ...

    I think we're a little naive to think letting an All-Pro talent like Mankins go won't have a negative effect in the short term.  As I said, I think the deal is a good one, but there's no reason to pretend it doesn't have some real downsides too. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Good points, I don't disagree and I said as much. It will be a process. Whether Cannon steps in for him (which makes the most sense whether he likes playing guard or not) or someone else (just not Wendell, please God). The point is, by the end of the year when it's time to play for real, they'll be just as good if not better. Solder will have to play better, no doubt.

    There are always trade-offs. Mankins will be 33 with a big salary. He's got a short shelf life in Tampa too. All things must end. They got a nice return, IMO, for a guy whose value is diminishing. The passing game will be better because Brady has a big target he didn't have before. The running game won't be as good in week 1. 

    [/QUOTE]


    This is exactly why I like the deal.  I think we're in complete agreement here.  But mthurl does have a point, too.  There are rarely decisions that clearly have only upside.  BB is a gutsy guy who's willing to take some risk for a bigger payoff down the road.  Which is why his tenure at the Pats has been so remarkable. 

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They'll either do more with their safeties or pick up a vet LB from the league cuts.

    [/QUOTE]


    If they run that 5-2 they ran in preseason (3 tackles, nink and jones on the edge, and two true LBs behind the LOS), they may have more LBs than they need in Mayo, Collins, Hightower, Flemming, and White.  If they go more to a 4-3 look, then LB is maybe thin. I think, though, Nink and Jones are versatile, and can be two-point players who can drop back into coverage a bit. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Who are the 3 tackles? Vince,  Siliga and who? 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    If they run that 5-2 they ran in preseason (3 tackles, nink and jones on the edge, and two true LBs behind the LOS), they may have more LBs than they need in Mayo, Collins, Hightower, Flemming, and White.  If they go more to a 4-3 look, then LB is maybe thin. I think, though, Nink and Jones are versatile, and can be two-point players who can drop back into coverage a bit. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Who are the 3 tackles? Vince,  Siliga and who? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Easley, Jones or Vellano?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    Re: just saying

    Anyone think that Mallett was kept in anticipation of a QB competition next year with Garrappolo?  Certainly not out of BB's profile to let Brady go...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: just saying

    Nice post all. I actually like the Mankins trade. It was going to be harder to trade him next year and his salary is out of line with his value at this point, and keeping aging linemen has two issues - salary cap, and blocking the development of young linemen/losing good rising players. Players like Donald Thomas who was probably our best guard in 2012 but left in free agency (he has since been injured two years running, but you couldn't plan on that and he wasn't previously 'injury prone'.)

    On the $12M cap space - that can get used up pretty quickly in-year with resigning pending free agents and replacements for injuries or new signings in the next couple of weeks. I do think the 10 offensive linemen will change in the next couple of days - there are a number of teams desperate for offensive line upgrades. Add in Mallett as a possible target for a trade, and the need to add a long snapper at some point. And Safety seems a little crowded and a little weak at the same time. Linebacker is just a little weak after the top three.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't think the plan is about saving money. The plan is about the model they have in place and the value they place on positions and units.  As a fan of this team I am like most fans… I want to see guys like Mankins stay and finish his career here. He was a fierce, nasty presence in the middle of the line who's pass blocking skills were diminishing in the pass happy NFL. Do i like the model this team operates from? Not all the time but the one thing it does allow them to do is be SB competitive year in and year out. I won't say in BB I trust… I will say they have short and long term plans that they seem to be very discipline in adhering to with very few exceptions one being the Revis signing this year. I have been a fan a long time and yes I am frustrated they haven't won at least one or two more SB's but IMHO it hasn't been from a lack of effort on the field or off the field.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm glad that you're not just referring to me as a troll and we can have a meaningful discussion. I find one flaw in what you are trying to say - and you might not agree with me here - but do you feel that it's been our team's business model that has kept us competitive for the last decade or Tom Brady? To me if you remove Tom Brady from that equation the business model would of failed and we would be in no better shape than anyone else. Now that's just my opinion - and I realize it's not popular here. In fact I'd go so far to say our "business model" has prevented us from winning another Super Bowl over the last ten years while we had Brady leading this team. I believe the never ending quest for value and return on our investment has lead us to signing too many players because of their "value", rather than their talent. I could be wrong, but it looks that way to me.

    [/QUOTE]

    No doubt they are tremendously fortunate to have had Brady to enhance what they are doing. It gives them a huge advantage in how they breakdown the rest of the roster. I don't know this but I would guess without Brady the spending portion of the model would look much different. They would be spending bigger in other areas… it would be the same model in theory just the allocations and details would be different. Perhaps you are correct in your assumption it might have cost them a SB but IMHO it could be argued it is their discipline to the model that allowed them to get to as many as they have appeared in. I don't think there is only one way to run a team and I would venture that most teams have their own unique methods but this is what we have and it seems to work.

    BTW, i don't think you or any patriot fan who questions the Pats system is a troll… I reserve that title for some of our out of town guests. In fact I enjoy some of your beat downs of Russ… they are pretty comical.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    mthurl,you would have to think the cap money remaining is going to be used to extend some of the guys who are up at the end of this year. Perhaps it's Solder, Cannon, Vereen, McCourty, Revis or some combination of those guys. I think we have to wait to see how those dollars are allocated over the next 2 years before we can give a thumbs up or down regarding the cap space.

    As far as Mankins is concerned he will be sorely missed in the run game but even more so in the locker room for his leadership. Based on the eyeball test and the PFF report they must feel they can do better in pass blocking from that position. It will be interesting to see how the O-line develops early in the year and what the O-line will look like at the end of the year.

    I could be wrong but I can't imagine that this move was made without having a plan in place…. I hope i'm not wrong.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, I understand that...signing guys who's contracts are up, etc, but what about right now? What about the team that will be on the field this year? How many more years with Brady will we have? I don't know how things are going to look when Kline misses his block on third down and Brady gets hit before he can even set his feet, which is what happened twice Thursday night to Garoppolo.

    The plan was to keep Mankins, that much is clear because they tried to get him to renegotiate twice this off season and camp. And I shouldn't say that was the plan, the plan was to save money - either way - but the "backup" plan has us saving money and not being as good. So yeah, go lock up Revis, go extend McCourty, but I can tell you right now that this time next year we will still be 6-10 million under the cap heading into the season...just like every one of the past 5 years. We have walked into all these seasons several million dollars under the cap. And for those who say...that's emergency money! Bull crap, the players we bring in during the regular season are cheap nobody's and we cut them two weeks later and sign the next nobody.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think the plan is about saving money. The plan is about the model they have in place and the value they place on positions and units.  As a fan of this team I am like most fans… I want to see guys like Mankins stay and finish his career here. He was a fierce, nasty presence in the middle of the line who's pass blocking skills were diminishing in the pass happy NFL. Do i like the model this team operates from? Not all the time but the one thing it does allow them to do is be SB competitive year in and year out. I won't say in BB I trust… I will say they have short and long term plans that they seem to be very discipline in adhering to with very few exceptions one being the Revis signing this year. I have been a fan a long time and yes I am frustrated they haven't won at least one or two more SB's but IMHO it hasn't been from a lack of effort on the field or off the field. 

    [/QUOTE]

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Very well put Ghost. Needless to say I agree with you.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks true,I think it is difficult to be a fan of this team… the expectations are so high that anything other than a SB win is considered a failure. I am actually good with that because I know year in and year out we Pats get to enjoy football played at the highest level. The issue becomes the frustration level when they fall short… sometimes IMHO the blame gets put on the organizational philosophy when it should be aimed at coaching, execution by the players, bad luck or some other variable.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    -I see that the Bills paid KOrten $5M yesterday. 2 things. they must not be in love anymore with Manuel, and Mallett at $900K is nice insurance

    We also have Garp for cheap who has thus far outplayed Mallett in my minds. If it was about cheap insurance we could filla roster with cheap QB options but it's the value of the player vs the roster spot and to me a 3rd QB who is gone next year and might not even be the first off the bench is not worth the cost of LB depth or Finch

    -I understand the roster is not set, but I am still a bit concerned about the OL play and LB play

    I am too but I wonder in game 4 had as much to do with shock (ie like when they traded Milloy) as just bad overall play

    -not official, but a quick check on the Pats salary cap has them at about $12M available. I will let MtHurl take that one from here

    I'm with MtHrul on this one. They seem to carry over $5-7 mil into the next season every season. I guess it's nice to have the can but if you keep kicking it down the road as a just in case and never use it, what use is it? It's like having a vacation fund you keep pushing off saying it's for rainy days until one day you die. Was it worth pushing it down the road as insurance if you never spend it?

    -among the notable cuts was AArmstead. If he is ever healthy enough to come back to the NFL, the Pats do not have his rights

     

    -I saw quite a few practices this summer, as well as the competitive practices against the Eagles. I made it a point to watch Ghost and Allen quite a bit. I never saw Nink long snap even once this summer

    This one scares me. For someone who carries almost a full load of starters at STs it's shocking BB would go into a season without on of the most important pieces on STs. Have to think something is up. Maybe one last extended look at a player (Baker vs Devey maybe?) or hoping to sneak a player through waivers on Wednesday when teams lock down their roster and are getting ready for the season?

    -I have commented these past 6 weeks on more than a few players. My comments certainly rubbed many on this board the wrong way. As I have repeatedly said, I am not a coach nor scout, and just making comments and observations on what I saw with my own eyes. Again, many did not like what I saw, thought I was lying, thought I was a Jets fan or even thought I hated BB based on some simple comments I made about players. Just for laughs, what I had been posting most of the past 6 weeks, and what transpired over the past week with cut downs;

     

    *I have been very high on Boyce the entire year, and did not see anything in camp that made me think otherwise. I was surprised he was cut, and am interested if another team picks him up or he is on the Pats PS.

     

    *I have been very high on Mallett and his potential. While I don't think he is "in the clear", I think it would take a pretty big offer to pry him away from the Pats

    Why? Garp has played better and they are losing Mallett next year for nothing. A cop pick won't come until 2016, most likely will be a later pick, and that's even if we get one because we didn't sign anyone of note in the next off season.

    *I have been down on KT. I still am. I still think by week 8, he is either benched or released

     

    *I was down on Beauharnis all summer. Too small for the inside, to slow for the outside.

     

    *I was up and down on Devey, Kline and Halapio all summer. I do think Kline could be a solid starter in the league. I think Devey and Halapio are both a year away from starters roles in the NFL

     

    *The entire summer, I was never impressed with White. As the summer developed, Gray impressed me more and more

     

    *After about the 3rd practice, I thought Chung would stick, and Harmon would not. Harmon may be the most disappointing non development of the summer. he was a maybe starter and needed to step up. he hasn't. While Boyce didn't either, he was always the 5th or 6th guy

     

    *I still think Hooman's roster spot is in jeopardy

    If it is that would be very disappointing. BB's 2nd and 3rd round picks have left a lot to be desired. He's great in the 1st and UDFA's but his day 2 picks are subpar for the league average

    *I was wrong about Devlin.

     

    *I was impressed with Wil Smith. I thought he showed well all summer, and went about his business of making the team methodically coming off injury. I thought he was trending to make a difference against Miami.

     

    *I think Siliga has a bigger role on this team than many think.

     

    *Browner received a lot of criticism this summer from many in the media. I thought he looked really, really good.

     

    *I have seen RSherman play on TV only. Honestly, I may have seen PPatterson play 1 time on TV. I do not believe either is better than Revis after watching him this summer    

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    mthurl,you would have to think the cap money remaining is going to be used to extend some of the guys who are up at the end of this year. Perhaps it's Solder, Cannon, Vereen, McCourty, Revis or some combination of those guys. I think we have to wait to see how those dollars are allocated over the next 2 years before we can give a thumbs up or down regarding the cap space.

    As far as Mankins is concerned he will be sorely missed in the run game but even more so in the locker room for his leadership. Based on the eyeball test and the PFF report they must feel they can do better in pass blocking from that position. It will be interesting to see how the O-line develops early in the year and what the O-line will look like at the end of the year.

    I could be wrong but I can't imagine that this move was made without having a plan in place…. I hope i'm not wrong.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, I understand that...signing guys who's contracts are up, etc, but what about right now? What about the team that will be on the field this year? How many more years with Brady will we have? I don't know how things are going to look when Kline misses his block on third down and Brady gets hit before he can even set his feet, which is what happened twice Thursday night to Garoppolo.

    The plan was to keep Mankins, that much is clear because they tried to get him to renegotiate twice this off season and camp. And I shouldn't say that was the plan, the plan was to save money - either way - but the "backup" plan has us saving money and not being as good. So yeah, go lock up Revis, go extend McCourty, but I can tell you right now that this time next year we will still be 6-10 million under the cap heading into the season...just like every one of the past 5 years. We have walked into all these seasons several million dollars under the cap. And for those who say...that's emergency money! Bull crap, the players we bring in during the regular season are cheap nobody's and we cut them two weeks later and sign the next nobody.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think the plan is about saving money. The plan is about the model they have in place and the value they place on positions and units.  As a fan of this team I am like most fans… I want to see guys like Mankins stay and finish his career here. He was a fierce, nasty presence in the middle of the line who's pass blocking skills were diminishing in the pass happy NFL. Do i like the model this team operates from? Not all the time but the one thing it does allow them to do is be SB competitive year in and year out. I won't say in BB I trust… I will say they have short and long term plans that they seem to be very discipline in adhering to with very few exceptions one being the Revis signing this year. I have been a fan a long time and yes I am frustrated they haven't won at least one or two more SB's but IMHO it hasn't been from a lack of effort on the field or off the field. 

    [/QUOTE]

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    Very well put Ghost. Needless to say I agree with you.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks true,I think it is difficult to be a fan of this team… the expectations are so high that anything other than a SB win is considered a failure. I am actually good with that because I know year in and year out we Pats get to enjoy football played at the highest level. The issue becomes the frustration level when they fall short… sometimes IMHO the blame gets put on the organizational philosophy when it should be aimed at coaching, execution by the players, bad luck or some other variable.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    To be honest 99.9% of fans have no clue what it is like to run a franchise or the future plans that the Pats have set in place. They have been watching Mankins steadily decline the past few years and something that probably sticks in BB head after watching tape from the AFC championship game is how our O-line got abused, Mankins let the critical sack happen on TB to basically win the game for the Donkeys and the fact Brady had zero TE weapons to through to that game while Manning had Julius destroying our secondary that is no bolstered by Revis which I am sure he would love to resign and not simply take a 5 cap hit on.

    Wright for Mankins at face value looks bad, because all we know is what Mankins gave us. What I think is that Wright will flourish with the Pats, the o-line will be just as good and we will all go, "well didn't that work out good for us, look we are in the playoffs and in the running for the SB, again!" Then next year BB will resign key guys and hopefully bring in some other FA receiving targets for Brady depending who is available and at what cost.

    There is still time for in season moves and trades, it doesn't happen a lot in football. But, if anyone is willing to do it, it's BB if it fits both his current and future plans.

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: just saying

    Another note, who here maxes out their credit card every month or all year long, leaving zero room for emergency needs? BB is smart to hold onto some of that cap space, yeah 12-10 million is a lot, but if he doesn't see honest and usable on field improvement at certain areas, why waste the cap space?

     
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: just saying

    Rkarp

    u were right on Anderson. All I asked was who was a head of him, when the cuts came I remembered your post. have always read your posts with interest

     

    to all

    i disagree. On Boyce over KT, I am still trying to figure out how everyone Knows that he has hit his ceiling?Tymms will force the issue later, 

    In terms of DL and lb, it really depends on the schemes they want to run, it seems it will be a blend of 3-4,4-3 and 5-2, Easley will be brought a long like Collins last year

    I  am in the minority of one that the Mankins trade was good for this years team, His pass protection was deteriorating and his run blocking, from what I could tell on TV, was not great in the last 3playoff losses, may have been due to injury? he is 32' we will see how he does at TBay. I will not be surprised if he gets injured

    Right now the Pats have really? Good Olmen, Am not a Wendell fan, we will see how good the others are

    I also think that this puts to rest that bb asks what TB thinks of a trade? Never did never will

    At Safety, I think one goes when Browner comes back, All the cbs are better than the jests and u would just be making them better. The jests will be underdogs in both games, but a low scoring game means they can steal one, the jests are getting roasted here for cb. And lastly some of our cbs can play safety, and still more depends on the schemes they run

    Obviously LSc has to be addressed, 

    It has never made sense 2me that over spending on FAs and spend to the cap makes any sense. , would rather put it to paying players we need. this year we still don't know if trades are coming now or during the season for an impact player like Talib was. so Respectfully I guess I am just not in the mthurl club

    I have never thought. That Mallet was going anywhere. I don't think JG is ready and there are no qb FA that are better than Mallett. for him 2 be traded , it would have to be for an impact player ,maybe DT, which might be the Rams, but am still doubtful

    Lastly, very interesting article in the NYP.  Today, The top O teams of each year have not done well in the PLayoffs, SBs if they make it at all, While the top D teams have won over them. btw The Pats were rated top 4defense, with Seattle the best

    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from m. a. pat. Show m. a. pat's posts

    Re: just saying

    Great football talk for a Sunday morning guys. It'll be so interesting to see what the OL combinations are for next Sunday @ Miami. Will the players who get the majority of playing time in the first game be the same guys getting the majority of snaps in week 8 and later?
    Will BB be like a baseball manager and pull a Kline / Wendell or some other offensive linemen if they're struggling and go to the bullpen?

    Maybe everything along the OL works great from the 1st game and into the playoffs. If not I'm hoping our QB and running game don't take too much of a hit until things are figured out.

    The Dolphins' have a pretty formidable DL and it'll be a tough test to start the season. I've got my fingers crossed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: just saying

    This roster isn't done evolving, there will be players added, players that were cut re-signed to the practice squad... it's too early to give this team a stamp of approval or disapproval.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Another note, who here maxes out their credit card every month or all year long, leaving zero room for emergency needs? BB is smart to hold onto some of that cap space, yeah 12-10 million is a lot, but if he doesn't see honest and usable on field improvement at certain areas, why waste the cap space?

     [/QUOTE]


    How much do you think an undrafted free agent defensive lineman costs for a one week rental in the middle of the season? Because those are those emergency funds you are talking about, now keep in mind a week later we will cut that very same player. We won't be signing good, quility guys in October that cost alot...those guys are gone...we sign people that are working at Taco Bell and most likely will continue to do so after their week with us. You don't need 12 million for that, in fact you don't need 2 million for that.

    If you want to say we are going to use up every penny of that 12 million and spend right up to the cap (or close to it), I'd say that's great! But it won't help this team THIS year. And if you said, well we are set up for the future, I'd say, well two weeks ago we were a lot tighter against the cap, yet in no time at all we saved 8 million or so by releasing or trading veterans...we couldn't of done that next year? Or at any time? Instead we did ten minutes before the season starts?

    We will make the playoffs. Yes. Then some other team that didn't care so much about being "fiscally responsible" or "the future", will punch us right in the mouth. I've watched it for ten years now. If I'm wrong, then what happened? We got out coached?  I don't think so. Bad luck? Sure, sometimes. But more often than not we lose along the line of scrimmage, high quality players help there...and having 8-10 million in cap space doesn't. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Another note, who here maxes out their credit card every month or all year long, leaving zero room for emergency needs? BB is smart to hold onto some of that cap space, yeah 12-10 million is a lot, but if he doesn't see honest and usable on field improvement at certain areas, why waste the cap space?

     [/QUOTE]

    Don't teams have to spend 97% this year?

    I think that's an average but there are teams with a lot of cap left which could reduce the amount individual teams can carry over,


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Another note, who here maxes out their credit card every month or all year long, leaving zero room for emergency needs? BB is smart to hold onto some of that cap space, yeah 12-10 million is a lot, but if he doesn't see honest and usable on field improvement at certain areas, why waste the cap space?

     [/QUOTE]

    Don't teams have to spend 97% this year?

    I think that's an average but there are teams with a lot of cap left which could reduce the amount individual teams can carry over,


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    The key going forward is the floor more than the cap. The final eight years of the CBA are broken into four-year periods (2013-'16, 2017-'20) during which teams are required to spend up to 89 percent of the cap, with a guaranteed league-wide spend of 95 percent. If the individual clubs or league fail to hit those thresholds, the league/clubs pay the difference to the players.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000331237/article/salary-cap-rise-to-133-million-shows-how-new-cba-is-working

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to freediro's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Another note, who here maxes out their credit card every month or all year long, leaving zero room for emergency needs? BB is smart to hold onto some of that cap space, yeah 12-10 million is a lot, but if he doesn't see honest and usable on field improvement at certain areas, why waste the cap space?

     [/QUOTE]

    Don't teams have to spend 97% this year?

    I think that's an average but there are teams with a lot of cap left which could reduce the amount individual teams can carry over,


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    The key going forward is the floor more than the cap. The final eight years of the CBA are broken into four-year periods (2013-'16, 2017-'20) during which teams are required to spend up to 89 percent of the cap, with a guaranteed league-wide spend of 95 percent. If the individual clubs or league fail to hit those thresholds, the league/clubs pay the difference to the players.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000331237/article/salary-cap-rise-to-133-million-shows-how-new-cba-is-working" rel="nofollow">http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000331237/article/salary-cap-rise-to-133-million-shows-how-new-cba-is-working

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Thanks for the lnfo/clarification

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MileHighMike. Show MileHighMike's posts

    Re: just saying

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ^if you are this much of an annoying dork with mother syndrome here, i can only imagine how you live your life in general.

    You must have very high blood pressure and your wife and kids must live lonely, smothered and very boring lives.

    My god are you a wet blanket deluxe. You must be a joy to talk to at a party or cookout.

    Focus on your jets.  You do this same crap every year.

    The team is loaded beyond belief and you want to pretend they are not, basically off a mish mash off ol in the 4th preseason game.

    When will it end?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, Queenie "loaded beyond belief" with "rental players' like Revis, right. When BB can't keep Revis next year how much dead money will be on that roster? How's that 3 QB plan coming along?

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share