Kiper on possible WR trade

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Kiper on possible WR trade

    What about trading picks now?
    When you have eight picks in the first four rounds, you have ammo to go and get a player if you think that guy can make an immediate difference. I don't see the Patriots getting Vincent Jackson (partially because of the stance and price we've seen from Chargers GM A.J. Smith thus far), but even a player like Steve Smith can't be considered an impossible get when you're holding such a massive picks portfolio. Draft picks are trade currency, and the Patriots are sitting on a vault right now. Still, given the current offensive productivity, I think the Patriots would be far more inclined to target defense. And if it was about offense, they should pick up a running back before a receiver.


    VERY solid article from the college draft guru, a bit of his stuff and spins the positive stuff others have been saying about the trade together nicely.

    Trade the 3rd back to Carolina for Smith (is a 2nd too much?) or trade a 5th for Branch. Either one is fine with me.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    A 2nd is too much....but a 2nd for D-Williams on the other hand!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    Here is the entire article since it is an ESPN Insider one...

    There's just so much to the Randy Moss trade. Current personnel, future draft moves, philosophical locker room dealings and on-field ramifications. So let's hit it all:

    • What I think of the deal
    • Is the current personnel enough?
    • What the Pats need
    • Draft strategies and who they could target with the pick 
    • Is there such a thing as too many picks?
    • How the picks could be used in trades

    Let's get into this.

     

     

    The right trade?
    My opinion is this is a deal Bill Belichick felt he had to make. This is not meant to be an indictment of Randy Moss, but the bottom line is Belichick likes to maintain a "we" and "us" culture in the locker room. The individual won't be a distraction. And while the situation -- Moss' concerns over his future, his contract, whether this was his last year with the Patriots, the subtle questions about whether he was somehow becoming a lesser part of the offense -- wasn't created entirely by Moss, the questions were constantly being asked. And that's not a distraction Belichick is or has been willing to deal with.

     

     

    The Vikings got what they felt they needed -- although if they can't keep Brett Favre upright, there's no reason to think Moss is the difference for that team -- and the Patriots feel they have enough to be successful now. That, and they've added another significant piece of franchise-building currency with a third-round pick. And about that current personnel …

    Is New England's current personnel enough?
    In terms of the passing game alone, my feeling is yes. Patriots fans who believe the offense is somehow built around the talents of Moss, or that Wes Welker suddenly will be drawing double-teams at the line of scrimmage simply because the deep threat of Moss is no longer there are a little delusional. This is a 3-1 team that has scored 38 or more points in three of four games, and doesn't even have anything resembling an elite running game. Of the current pass-catchers on the team, Welker, rookie Aaron Hernandez and second-year man Brandon Tate all have more catches than Moss. And Julian Edelman could certainly add touches. A number of people have pointed out (notably Mike Reiss of ESPNBoston.com) how the Patriots are using far more two-tight-end sets this season, featuring the extremely talented Hernandez and the emerging Rob Gronkowski. (A point on Gronkowski: He's already become an almost impossible red zone matchup, much like Moss once was. His 6-foot-7 basketball frame forces safeties to climb on him in jump-ball situations.) There will be changes in the passing game, but a lot of it will be perception, because changes have already been made. This passing attack, which has largely coasted, is diversified and dangerous and has a QB that could get it done with David Givens,Deion Branch and Troy Brown, and certainly can with the current unit. And, in terms of talent, the current squad far surpasses Givens and Co.

    No, the Pats' personnel question comes elsewhere. We'll get to that.

    Again, the Patriots are 3-1, and you're looking at a league in which, according to ESPN Stats & Information, 23 teams are within a game of first place. There simply isn't a dominant team. And if New England can make gradual improvements on defense, there's a lot of season left for the offense to jell. (And again, look at what they've done to this point.)

    What about trading picks now?
    When you have eight picks in the first four rounds, you have ammo to go and get a player if you think that guy can make an immediate difference. I don't see the Patriots getting Vincent Jackson (partially because of the stance and price we've seen from Chargers GM A.J. Smith thus far), but even a player like Steve Smith can't be considered an impossible get when you're holding such a massive picks portfolio. Draft picks are trade currency, and the Patriots are sitting on a vault right now. Still, given the current offensive productivity, I think the Patriots would be far more inclined to target defense. And if it was about offense, they should pick up a running back before a receiver.

    What are the Pats' draft needs?
    It's early, but for me it starts at running back. This is a team that's sort of been piecing together a backfield with veterans, augmenting its brilliant passing attack with whatever it could get. You had Corey Dillon and now Fred Taylor, plus the ageless Kevin Faulk. Laurence Maroney is officially a bust (at least for New England), but given the picks it has, a running back should be targeted with one of those first three. From there I'd target a stand-up 3-4 OLB who can get after the passer, a 3-4 defensive end (Ty Warren will be back, but you can't be deep enough there), some added depth at corner and also a guard, for obvious reasons. I can also see the Pats looking at a young, field-stretching wideout to develop. That's the early triage, but obviously, it's early and needs can shift.

     

     

    Who could they target?
    Because of the amount of picks it has, New England has the option to move a couple of them and continue the surplus into 2012, or it could use the current surplus to move up for more premium picks. For now, with RB as a top need, it could target a guy like Bama's Mark Ingram, or Kansas State's Daniel Thomas. If it aims for a receiver early, it could pursue A.J. Green (possibly with a trade up, depending on how the Raiders finish), or wait and get someone like Michael Floyd of Notre Dame. (Again, these are just guys with grades at the front or back of the first round right now.)

     

     

    For a stand-up 3-4, the Pats could target a player like Jeremy Beal of Oklahoma, or a likely defensive end convert in Ryan Kerrigan of Purdue. They could also consider a player like Akeem Ayers of UCLA, who has coverage skills and pass-rushing ability and projects as an ideal 3-4 OLB.

     

     

    I won't get into the endless number of prospects available, but I mention a few here just to emphasize the sheer number of names in play because of the stockpile of picks the Patriots have acquired. Seemingly anything is possible on draft day with this team, because the Pats are able to do anything in terms of targeting picks, or simply remaining patient and letting solid picks come to them. Consider Hernandez, a fouth-rounder.

     

     

    Is there such a thing as too many picks?
    No. People will say that it could be a concern to carry such a high percentage of youthful players on what feels for all personnel people like a relatively small NFL roster, and that's legitimate, but no GM is going to lose sleep over the "concern" of drafting eight possible keepers. And again, there's no reason to think New England has to keep all these picks. It can move up or down pretty easily.

    The startling thing about the Patriots is this: If they hold onto all eight picks in 2011, they could conceivably have 21 players on the 2011 roster who were picked in Rounds 1 through 4 from 2009 through 2011. You won't hit on all of them, but when you see a player like Patrick Chung making plays on special teams, you start to think about the remarkable depth of talent that could be spread across the Pats' roster.

     

     

    In a league built for parity, the Patriots' current strategy gives them an edge.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    How about D-Will and Smith for our #1?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BSII. Show BSII's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    Smith would be great although he's crazy.  Plays hard, and is productive despite not having a decent QB since Jake lost it 3 years ago.  I'd take the old Branch, don't know if there is much left in his tank.  Maybe a change of scenery would revive him.

    8 picks in top 4 rounds is unbelievable. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    Kiper is saying running back and defense, and I agree especially defense
    What about renting Champ Bailey for a third rounder (thank you Randy).
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from btownteamsrking. Show btownteamsrking's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    In Response to Re: Kiper on possible WR trade:
    [QUOTE]How about D-Will and Smith for our #1?
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    wow. blockbuster. the AFC might just go home and quit if that happened. Id say that would take our #1 and #3
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    In Response to Re: Kiper on possible WR trade:
    [QUOTE]How about D-Will and Smith for our #1?
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Is the Carolina GM broke and smoke crack because that ain't happening.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    In Response to Re: Kiper on possible WR trade:
    [QUOTE]defense What about renting Champ Bailey for a third rounder (thank you Randy).
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]

    no thanks
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEGAME. Show NEGAME's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    I posted that I wanted Steve Smith early in the preseason (of coarse i'm a girl so i didn't get much response) I'd rather have Smith than Branch but they both have injury issues. but I believe Carolina would trade. He's a nasty reciever i'd love to see him on the Patriots
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    BB will not over pay for anyone or to salvage a season. He has proved this time and time again. He believes in team, and not in stars.

    Examples:

    Samuel
    Moss

    He has lots of draft picks for the future. I hope he is right. However, it is a little early in the year for me to be saying "wait till next year".
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    In Response to Re: Kiper on possible WR trade:
    [QUOTE]A 2nd is too much....but a 2nd for D-Williams on the other hand!
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    we got good RBs, plus there will be better ones in the 2011 draft we can get with that 2nd rounder
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    We don't need a RB the Patriots are a pass first offense! However if Ingram is available at #32 cool beans.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    So we can trade our #1 and Denver's #4 for DWill and Smith

    Then we can trade either of our #3's for Champ Bailey

    and still have a pick in every rd and an extra 2nd

    Sound good to everyone:-)
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    In Response to Re: Kiper on possible WR trade:
    [QUOTE]So we can trade our #1 and Denver's #4 for DWill and Smith Then we can trade either of our #3's for Champ Bailey and still have a pick in every rd and an extra 2nd Sound good to everyone:-)
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE] Carolina would be investigated for being a team run by BB on the sly! Deangelo Williams and Steve Smith for our first round pick and our third round pick I make that trade all day long! I'm not sure the Panthers would make it..
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    In Response to Re: Kiper on possible WR trade:
    [QUOTE]I posted that I wanted Steve Smith early in the preseason (of coarse i'm a girl so i didn't get much response) I'd rather have Smith than Branch but they both have injury issues. but I believe Carolina would trade. He's a nasty reciever i'd love to see him on the Patriots
    Posted by NEGAME[/QUOTE]

    yep, your very much a girl.  That's not a negative by the way.  I actually think a lot of your opinions!  It gives us on the board a different look on matters.  Don't ever think that you are not respected on this board.  I'm not alone on this.

    Here's where the rubber hits the road.  There are going to be an awful lot of FAs next year.  The players the Pats don't get through the draft they can obtain through FA.  It's about being patient.  Next year will be the Pats year.  I was very focal about this before the draft that it would take next years draft as well to fix everything.  I didin't get much of a response on that either.  And I'm not a girl.  Of course there might be others who disagree!  Hang in there NEGame!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    Carolina is one blow out away from Global Thermo Nuclear War in the organization. I am talking anarchy. Fox and his entire staff may be fired at any moment, and as much respect as a lot of "Football" people have for John Fox, I say he deserves to be fired for the Jake Delhomme 50 mil extension, the Dwayne Jarret draft pick, the failure to replace his vaunted Defensive line from 03-05 and never having a true compliment to Steve Smith in the passing game.

    Anyway my point is....Steve Smith and or D-Williams I think are in the last year of big contracts. Panthers already have The Daily Show and have multiple needs on that team. It is very reasonable;e to assume they will be making some moves. Considering we have 8 picks in 1st 4 rds I would not be opposed to trading for a quality vet instead of getting younger then we already are.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZachRudy. Show ZachRudy's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    As a Pats fan living down in Carolina, I love the Steve Smith idea.  The guy is all heart and wants to win.  Steve has great hands, is very fast and has the fight and drive to go up and win balls.  Steve was basically begging and pleading with the Panther F.O. to bring in another receiver and even claimed he would be more then happy to play second fiddle to a big name free agent receiver or high draft pick receiver.  That did not materialize and fans can see the frustration in Smith's game, demeanor and actions (pretty much told off Clauson last week).

    Steve is 31 and has two years left on his contract.  My only objection is he is becoming increasingly injury prone.  Other than that, he seems to be a hard working, blue collar player. 

    All that being said, garytx is probably right.  Being patient is the most sensible approach. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jbolted. Show jbolted's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    In Response to Re: Kiper on possible WR trade:
    [QUOTE]I posted that I wanted Steve Smith early in the preseason (of coarse i'm a girl so i didn't get much response) I'd rather have Smith than Branch but they both have injury issues. but I believe Carolina would trade. He's a nasty reciever i'd love to see him on the Patriots
    Posted by NEGAME[/QUOTE]
    Gamer,
    You're either a girl or you have a bad case of the mumps.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LB34. Show LB34's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    I like the Steve Smith idea but I'm sure Carolina will want their 2nd back we got in a trade.  That may be too high a price especially if Branch can be had for a 4th or 5th rounder.  Get Branch!

    D Williams is a free agent at year end and will need to a be sign a trade to give up a 1st or 2nd.  Probably too complicated at this point.  Plus, I think a lot of fans want to see what we have in Law Firm as he too is a F/A at year end.  Maybe consider D Williams as a F/A but he will want to get paid $$$ 

    Too bad we didn't draft D Williams instead of Maroney...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots44. Show patriots44's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    In Response to Re: Kiper on possible WR trade:
    [QUOTE]I like the Steve Smith idea but I'm sure Carolina will want their 2nd back we got in a trade.  That may be too high a price especially if Branch can be had for a 4th or 5th rounder.  Get Branch! D Williams is a free agent at year end and will need to a be sign a trade to give up a 1st or 2nd.  Probably too complicated at this point.  Plus, I think a lot of fans want to see what we have in Law Firm as he too is a F/A at year end.  Maybe consider D Williams as a F/A but he will want to get paid $$$  Too bad we didn't draft D Williams instead of Maroney...
    Posted by LB34[/QUOTE]If BB gives a 4th for Branch, a guy Seatlle doesn't even  want, He should  be fired. I hope your not like some others who thought Moss would bring a number 1 and a three.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    It starts at DE... After rewatching that Dolphins game were going to have serious problems going forward if they dont go DE. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Kiper on possible WR trade

    I just want to stop the Steve Smith talk now.

    Some people are happy Randy is gone because they THINK he was a problem.

    A lot of people don't want Jackson because they THINK he is a problem.

    Well, Steve Smith IS a problem. He has gotten in more than one fight with teammates, and been suspended simply for "conduct detrimental to the team." Neither Moss nor Jackson have either of those on their resumes. Smith is one of the bigger a h o l e s in the league and as much as I like the talent, you're looking at a TO type of player who's actually far more of a jerk, and less of an insecure putz.

    "Steve Smith, the Carolina Panthers star wide receiver who was involved in a altercation with Ken Lucas in which he broke his teammates nose, has been suspended by the team for their first two games." - 2008

    This the kind of teammate you want?

    Also, numerous injuries in his past:

    -Missed 04 with broken leg
    -Missed 2 games begginning 06 with various foot injuries
    -Broke forearm in week 16 of 09, broke it again 6/19 playing flag football
    -Missed Bowl game in 2000 with injury while in college

    I'll take either of their RBs, they can keep this guy.


     

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