Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Reiss thinks Jones is the surprise cut due to injury (kidney)



    Didn't he miss the last 3 or 4 games in Buffalo with that issue?

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    New England was outstanding in creating turnovers with 20 interceptions and 21 fumble recoveries, which is more important than pass defense. Imagine giving Tom Brady 41 extra series in a season.



    The second sentence does not follow from the first.  Turnovers are good because they often cause a change of momentum and can mean good field position.  They usually aren't any more effective at getting the ball back quickly to the offense than a quick stop.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    New England was outstanding in creating turnovers with 20 interceptions and 21 fumble recoveries, which is more important than pass defense. Imagine giving Tom Brady 41 extra series in a season.

     



    The second sentence does not follow from the first.  Turnovers are good because they often cause a change of momentum and can mean good field position.  They usually aren't any more effective at getting the ball back quickly to the offense than a quick stop.



    Yeah, I was thinking along those lines myself.  Only difference I can see is field position, depending on where the t/o occurs.

     
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    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Reiss thinks Jones is the surprise cut due to injury (kidney)

     



    Didn't he miss the last 3 or 4 games in Buffalo with that issue?

     

     

     



    Was that due to this??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE7sQVQdgj8

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

    "New England was outstanding in creating turnovers with 20 interceptions and 21 fumble recoveries, which is more important than pass defense."

    Said this here for 3 years.^^^

     



    Too bad that wasn't the case in the playoffs, right dumbkoff?

    Oh, that's right, you only criticize Brady for any post-season fall off.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    In the last 3 postseason losses the Pats have generated ZERO turnovers.

    Live by the turnover, die by the turnover.

    Give me a sound, fundamentally strong defense over an opportunistic defense every time.

     
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    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

     

    New England was outstanding in creating turnovers with 20 interceptions and 21 fumble recoveries, which is more important than pass defense. Imagine giving Tom Brady 41 extra series in a season.

     

     

     



    The second sentence does not follow from the first.  Turnovers are good because they often cause a change of momentum and can mean good field position.  They usually aren't any more effective at getting the ball back quickly to the offense than a quick stop.

     

     

     

     



    Yeah, I was thinking along those lines myself.  Only difference I can see is field position, depending on where the t/o occurs.

     

     

     




    Obviously. 

     

    That doesn't change the fact NE is very good at creating turnovers on D.  I've heard every excuse in the book that we only get INTs vs bad QBs or with huge leads, which is completely false.  BB teaches the turnover thing, they emphasize it, they always have. Many teams do, if not all, but the results are nowhere near what BB's Ds have done so consistently, especially in recent years. 

    I'll give you an example  of a game where NE's D was subpar, but a turnover and like 6 sacks in the game kept them in the game for them to win it, but our offense sucked so bad in the second half.

    2011 @ Pitt

    Guyton picked Big Rapist before half. He set us up at like the 2 yard line and Branch scored a TD. It completely changed the momentum, even if NE's gameplan was to keep guys off the line on Wallace and not let any big plays come from him. That allowed Big Rape to dink and dunk and move the sticks to eat clock.   Now, we are a long, long way from Gary Guyton and James Ihedigbo, and names like that, running around out there. We'll have Adrian Wilson, Talib, Dennard, McCourty, playing as a unit, which is only going to help. 

    The difference was, we had a chance to win that game in the 4th qtr on offense, with the D having a good second half. That was also on the heels of losing Bodden for the season and now career, so they were really undermanned.  So, that was a close game as dominated as NE was in the first half, but that Guyton INT, completely flipped the game's momentum. So, that is proof the yards allowed, because you're doing it to offset big plays, is somewhat meaningless in the big picture.  I won't mention SB 46, no turnovers for us, because it will just start another flame war, but that had LITTLE to do with why we lost that game.  It all comes back to our offense needing to execute to ice games, obviously. You can't expect a guaranteed minium of 2 turnovers every game. That's irrational thinking.   I am just glad they get as many as they do so consistently.

    A team like Pitt was awful at it last year and they missed the playoffs again, so how great is that D and how bad is ours?   Hmm.

    Kirwan is correct in saying yards allowed in the air is pretty much the last stat that matters, especially if you're 9th in the league in total defense and lead the conference every year in turnovers, generating more times Brady and the offense can mount a drive for your team.

    It's amazing to me how disrespected our defense is. It's all over-dramatized and I'll stop there as to why that is the case. 



    First of all we were 9th in scoring defense not total defense.  In total defense we were 25th mostly because of the passing D number.  Yards do matter.  Not as much as points obviously, but they still matter.  In particular they matter when you aren't able to force turnovers.  In the last 3 postseason losses the defense hasn't forced a single turnover.  Some of that is bad luck and some of it is that playoff teams probably do a better job of taking care of the ball.  When you aren't able to force turnovers you still need to be able to get stops.  More yards equals more time off the clock (which means less time for your offense) and if not more points allowed at least bad field position for your offense.

    And again I will take issue with your claim "especially if you're 9th in the league in total defense and lead the conference every year in turnovers, generating more times Brady and the offense can mount a drive for your team."  My disagreement with that logic was the reason for my previous post.  There are a lot of variables that go into the number of possessions a team gets, but it is worth pointing out that last season the Patriots ranked middle of the pack in offensive possessions per football outsiders.

    I tend to be more bullish on the defense than a large contingent of posters on this board, but I don't think it's right to claim that a metric that the defense ranks poorly on is completely irrelevant.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    What's wrong with the kidney?



    He has some sort of chronic kidney condition.  I remember looking this up in a previous thread a long time ago.  It is rumored to be the reason he has missed time in the past although it is in theory manageable.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    Well I guess it wasn't manageable enough given that he just got cut.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    My response to their high turnover numbers is always the same. How many turnovers have they forced in the postseason since 2009? If you attack Brady's postseason play how can you stand behind the defense's inabiliby to force a turnover when it actually matters?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    I want to know how many points we actually scored off those turnovers, otherwise that is a meaningless stat if we just punt it away.

     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    Turnovers are of enormous importance in the current era. Maybe only second to scoring defense/points allowed. So many pass happy offenses and favorable offensive rules. I am more concerned about the Pats TO differential than I am yardage (easily and going away). Agree Adrain Wilson could be an intimidating force that could be used a variety of ways. On paper the nickel and dime packages should be better. I am curious to see what Collins can do defensively and how much of force Jones can be now that he's bulked up.

     
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    Re: Kirwan's Preseason Analysis

    Just happy to be talking football , again Rusty.

     
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