Kraft comments on Logan's return????

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    I am sitting here wondering where this dynamic is going???  I read the Team, Coaches and even Bill are happy about Logan's return but I have not seen an offical statement from the Kraft family.

    I do know how good this kid is, I also know that Steven Neal is a real short timer due to age and health.  All Pro OLs don't grow on trees and the planets have aligned themselves within the Universe and we have a legit shot at a big ring this year and for several more beyond.  I would hate to think that a deal could not be reached to get this contract settled.  Man - up guys!!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    I don't think Kraft releases a statement each time a player shows up. For what it's worth, he did refute the Adam Schefter report that he and Mankins went at it because Mankins didn't publicly apologize. He went on WEEI the next day and said that was complete bullsh!t.

    Mankins, overall, is a good guy that was misguided by his agent a bit. In the worst economic times the country's ever faced, he was offered a top 3-4 deal for a guard and turned it down. That's called being misguided by a greedy agent. Not saying Mankins is a victim here but you do hire an agent to guide to the best possible deal. In this case, it was towards a deal that wasn't coming, ever.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    Kraft is not going to insert himself in this. Mankins has returned as a player which makes him BB's responsibility.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    I don't think Kraft releases a statement each time a player shows up. For what it's worth, he did refute the Adam Schefter report that he and Mankins went at it because Mankins didn't publicly apologize. He went on WEEI the next day and said that was complete bullsh!t. Mankins, overall, is a good guy that was misguided by his agent a bit. In the worst economic times the country's ever faced, he was offered a top 3-4 deal for a guard and turned it down. That's called being misguided by a greedy agent. Not saying Mankins is a victim here but you do hire an agent to guide to the best possible deal. In this case, it was towards a deal that wasn't coming, ever.
    Posted by apdynasty23

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    I don't think Kraft releases a statement each time a player shows up. For what it's worth, he did refute the Adam Schefter report that he and Mankins went at it because Mankins didn't publicly apologize. He went on WEEI the next day and said that was complete bullsh!t. Mankins, overall, is a good guy that was misguided by his agent a bit. In the worst economic times the country's ever faced, he was offered a top 3-4 deal for a guard and turned it down. That's called being misguided by a greedy agent. Not saying Mankins is a victim here but you do hire an agent to guide to the best possible deal. In this case, it was towards a deal that wasn't coming, ever.
    Posted by apdynasty23


    John Hannah and Leon Gray held out because they thought Team ownership did not offer them what they felt their true value was to the Team.  I expect Logan had some of the same feelings.  Granted, Logan is an emotional guy and he probably said some things that he should not have said - that is why you let your agent handle the messy details.  I just hope that both sides can get this resolved and move on in quest of a few more big rings.  Upward and onward!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : John Hannah and Leon Gray held out because they thought Team ownership did not offer them what they felt their true value was to the Team.  I expect Logan had some of the same feelings.  Granted, Logan is an emotional guy and he probably said some things that he should not have said - that is why you let your agent handle the messy details.  I just hope that both sides can get this resolved and move on in quest of a few more big rings.  Upward and onward!!!
    Posted by Clay73


    First of all Kraft didn't even own the Pats back then.

    Secondly offering mankins a contract that would make him the 3rd highest OL in the NFL doesn't seem like an insult to me. Getting angry because he wanted to be the highest was juvenile on Mankins part. There's is a salary cap you know and the extra money could be used to increase the pay of some of his teamates. By wanting them to spend that much money on him he's telling his fellow linemen he doesn't care what they make. The amount of money offered him is more than a small town full of people make in their lifetimes. Crying millionares get no sympathy from me.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : First of all Kraft didn't even own the Pats back then. Secondly offering mankins a contract that would make him the 3rd highest OL in the NFL doesn't seem like an insult to me. Getting angry because he wanted to be the highest was juvenile on Mankins part. There's is a salary cap you know and the extra money could be used to increase the pay of some of his teamates. By wanting them to spend that much money on him he's telling his fellow linemen he doesn't care what they make. The amount of money offered him is more than a small town full of people make in their lifetimes. Crying millionares get no sympathy from me.
    Posted by Evil2010


    Well, there isn't a cap this year so that's moot point. I still get what you're saying though.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : First of all Kraft didn't even own the Pats back then. Secondly offering mankins a contract that would make him the 3rd highest OL in the NFL doesn't seem like an insult to me. Getting angry because he wanted to be the highest was juvenile on Mankins part. There's is a salary cap you know and the extra money could be used to increase the pay of some of his teamates. By wanting them to spend that much money on him he's telling his fellow linemen he doesn't care what they make. The amount of money offered him is more than a small town full of people make in their lifetimes. Crying millionares get no sympathy from me.
    Posted by Evil2010


    I just meant that I understand how this type of thing gets a life.  Yes greed is not a good thing and this is a team sport with a salary cap. But these guys can't buy health insurance after their playing days because they are too risky to insure, they don't live very long due to what they are subjected to, in order to be a player in the league, which doesn't have guaranteed contracts for its players either.  Having said this, crying billionaires get no sympathy from me either as most of the owners are today - ya dig.  It is a process to get any deal done in any arena, whether it be sports or business or whatever but I think the NFL owners have the most advantages of any of the owners by far.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jonbam. Show jonbam's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : Well, there isn't a cap this year so that's moot point. I still get what you're saying though.
    Posted by apdynasty23


    ap, your response is only valid if the Patriots were either gong to sign Mankins to a 1 year deal or to a very heavily front-end loaded (30-50% of entire contract) first year salary on a multi-year contract.  Hardly likely either of those things were going to happen. Otherwise his contract would have significant salary cap impact.  Of course, this is assuming that the new CBA still contains a cap.  I think that's a pretty good bet.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sheldong. Show sheldong's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : Well, there isn't a cap this year so that's moot point. I still get what you're saying though.
    Posted by apdynasty23


    I believe there is a cap this year.  It is next year that there won't be one if there isn't a new CBA.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tmot1234. Show tmot1234's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : I believe there is a cap this year.  It is next year that there won't be one if there isn't a new CBA.
    Posted by sheldong


    Not true, there is no cap this year, and if there is no CBA in place for next year, then there won't be any football.

    I'm sure teams still have budgets, but no spending cap.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from norichcrybabies. Show norichcrybabies's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : First of all Kraft didn't even own the Pats back then. Secondly offering mankins a contract that would make him the 3rd highest OL in the NFL doesn't seem like an insult to me. Getting angry because he wanted to be the highest was juvenile on Mankins part. There's is a salary cap you know and the extra money could be used to increase the pay of some of his teamates. By wanting them to spend that much money on him he's telling his fellow linemen he doesn't care what they make. The amount of money offered him is more than a small town full of people make in their lifetimes. Crying millionares get no sympathy from me.
    Posted by Evil2010

    *clicks "like" button

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    there is no cap this year.... you could spend 200 million on salary this year but when the new cba comes next year there will be a cap and you would have to be under it... so they are using a self imposed cap so to speak
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    per your comment jcour382, I still believe a deal was do-able.

    The PATS could have signed him to an extension for 3 or 4 more years at a combined top dollar amount with the contract front loaded with a hefty amount for 2010 (uncapped season) and a more realistic amount for an OL in the ensuing 2011, 2012, and 2013 seasons which amounts would be more palpable  which will presumably be capped years under a new CBA.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    *clicks "like" button


    ha ha set you up like the 5 pin with deadwood in front of it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : I just meant that I understand how this type of thing gets a life.  Yes greed is not a good thing and this is a team sport with a salary cap. But these guys can't buy health insurance after their playing days because they are too risky to insure, they don't live very long due to what they are subjected to, in order to be a player in the league, which doesn't have guaranteed contracts for its players either.  Having said this, crying billionaires get no sympathy from me either as most of the owners are today - ya dig.  It is a process to get any deal done in any arena, whether it be sports or business or whatever but I think the NFL owners have the most advantages of any of the owners by far.
    Posted by Clay73


    A lot gets said about the players and the risks they take.

    How about the owners? They don't take risks everytime they sign a player and pay up front money never knowing if that player is going to perform? They don't hold the payroll for a huge amount of employees? You don't think Kraft took a huge risk when he bought the Pats or built a new stadium with his own money? Is there some reason why he shouldn't profit from that?

    I don't believe for a second that ex NFL players can't buy health insurance just because they played in the NFL. There's probably several million people that can't get health insurance because of pre existing conditions walking around right now.  And they're not millionaires. You got any sympathy for them?

    And who has been opposing health money for ex players? Not the owners but the current players and the union or did you not know that. Do you remember that famous Gene Upshaw statement concerning the difficulties of former players about how the union represents players playing now not players that used to play?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    per your comment jcour382, I still believe a deal was do-able. The PATS could have signed him to an extension for 3 or 4 more years at a combined top dollar amount with the contract front loaded with a hefty amount for 2010 (uncapped season) and a more realistic amount for an OL in the ensuing 2011, 2012, and 2013 seasons which amounts would be more palpable  which will presumably be capped years under a new CBA.
    Posted by dustcover


    I'm not sure that you can completely front load a contract. There are actually rules preventing this from happening. The problem being is that they couldn't increase the pay to more then 10% of the base from the previous year, I believe, and you can only have so much money in bonuses so Mankins contract couldn't be front loaded more then maybe 30% (I believe Wilforks and Bradys were front loaded more because their base salaries were larger to begin with).That's still a lot of money but still means they have work him into a budget.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    There is also talk around the CBA that if a number of owners front-loaded contracts into 2010, as part of the cap under the CBA they would reach back in 2010 and include those contracts and pro rate the money into 2011 and beyond, which would have serious effects on the teams that did it.  That is one of the reasons you are not seeing the front-loaded contracts this year
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RahZid. Show RahZid's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    per your comment jcour382, I still believe a deal was do-able. The PATS could have signed him to an extension for 3 or 4 more years at a combined top dollar amount with the contract front loaded with a hefty amount for 2010 (uncapped season) and a more realistic amount for an OL in the ensuing 2011, 2012, and 2013 seasons which amounts would be more palpable  which will presumably be capped years under a new CBA.
    Posted by dustcover


    No they couldn't have.  The 110% rule still applied where the players salary can not exceed 110% of the previous years salary.  The only way to get around this would be to give a large signing bonus, but a signing bonus is evenly distributed over cap years.

    In hindsight, I should have scrolled down and read the next 2 comments Embarassed
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

     Please people,stop saying that you should pay evry player what they as nthere is salary cap this season,Why?Simple,the NFL will sidn any new CBA that does not have a salary cap,and  may not consider one that doas not have a rookie salary cap as well(and I still think the union's stance on a rookie salary cap,which pays unproven young players just coming out of school more than men who have pro experience and have proved their mettle at the highest level of competition,should be rethought).I believe it isn't in the best interest of their current members on too many occasions.Every time a club overpays even slightly,it will come back to haunt them once the cap is once again in place.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : A lot gets said about the players and the risks they take. How about the owners? They don't take risks everytime they sign a player and pay up front money never knowing if that player is going to perform? They don't hold the payroll for a huge amount of employees? You don't think Kraft took a huge risk when he bought the Pats or built a new stadium with his own money? Is there some reason why he shouldn't profit from that? I don't believe for a second that ex NFL players can't buy health insurance just because they played in the NFL. There's probably several million people that can't get health insurance because of pre existing conditions walking around right now.  And they're not millionaires. You got any sympathy for them? And who has been opposing health money for ex players? Not the owners but the current players and the union or did you not know that. Do you remember that famous Gene Upshaw statement concerning the difficulties of former players about how the union represents players playing now not players that used to play?
    Posted by Evil2010


    Hey Sunshine,

    There is never any risk for the NFL owners.  Dude it is a cost plus affair.  They just pass the cost increases on to you and me - the fans.  Every time you buy a beer, a soda or even an insurance policy, these NFL owners pass the increase onto whoever advertises on their TV, radio or internet broadcasts or ticket prices.  Risk my butt - they are billionaires and they don't deal with risks.  The NFL is set up for them to win!!!  Wake up..
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????

    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return????:
    In Response to Re: Kraft comments on Logan's return???? : First of all Kraft didn't even own the Pats back then. Secondly offering mankins a contract that would make him the 3rd highest OL in the NFL doesn't seem like an insult to me. Getting angry because he wanted to be the highest was juvenile on Mankins part. There's is a salary cap you know and the extra money could be used to increase the pay of some of his teamates. By wanting them to spend that much money on him he's telling his fellow linemen he doesn't care what they make. The amount of money offered him is more than a small town full of people make in their lifetimes. Crying millionares get no sympathy from me.
    Posted by Evil2010


    Well put.

    First,  The Hog is considered one of the best football players of all time, and arguably the greatest O-lineman ever.  Mankins is not in the same league. Hog probably was underpaid, but I don't remember the particulars.  I do remember his hold-out. I don't remember him ever calling the Sullivans liars. 

    I don't have a huge problem with a hold-out.  That is a players' leverage.

    I do have a bit of a problem with a hold-out to refuse a second-best contract in the NFL for the position by a guy that is top-five, but not #1 at his job.

    I really have a problem with said player falsely calling his boss a liar in public, then refusing to apologize and correct his mistake publicly.

    And I agree withyour point about the perception by his fellow teammates: "Much more for him means much less for me, and even then he is not satisified!?"
     
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