we were willing ot go above market value.

his rep misrepresented to him what the market for him was.

he will count 4 mil toward cap this year and 8 mil next year. In another year, when it’s going to be a tight cap, that’s a lot of money.  theres no guarantee he will not be cut before year 2.

he would have gotten 8 mil hear the first year and 16 mil over 2 year withincentives

In response to bredbru's comment:

we were willing ot go above market value.

his rep misrepresented to him what the market for him was.

he will count 4 mil toward cap this year and 8 mil next year. In another year, when it’s going to be a tight cap, that’s a lot of money.  theres no guarantee he will not be cut before year 2.

he would have gotten 8 mil hear the first year and 16 mil over 2 year withincentives

That's a bold statement to make. What were his incentives? How much were they worth? What would his signing bonus and salaries have been?

It's one thing to say it, it's another to prove it. Just like Welker's agent maintaining the pats didn't want him. Very easy to say.

The agent will never say they screwed up. If what RK said is true it sounds as if WW was trying to get the Pats to offer him the package again but was a day late and he was also going around his agent.

iMHO I believe the agent played chicken with the Pats and screwed up big time. Since they misread the Pats and the market. Worst of all they misread the Pats and the fact that they have a market number for every position and player. If WW took the original contract he would not now be playing to make incentives.

if he gets hurt even for one or two games the incentives become a long shot.

Cards on the table here, guys.  As I've said on other threads, if it comes down to a 'who-do-you-believe' scenario then I'm with Robert Kraft.  Widely respected throughout NFL by both ownership and players.  That said, I really think it's time to put the Welker thing to bed and move on.

No one knows what the incentives may have been and without the incentives it was 2 year 10 million.  Lets say the incentives included % of plays on the field.  Who controls that?  What if the incentives included 115 catches while the pats control the % of plays on the field. 

I don't care who you are, you don't become as successful as Kraft has become without knowing how to negotiate, when to hold and when to fold, and how to spin public perception. 

What Kraft is spinning isn't completely accurate and isn't completely inaccurate, but I do believe they offered the agent a take it or leave it deal.  If not, things wouldn't have happened so quickly. 

By the way, what the hell happened to Kraft's face.  He looks like he got in a fight with some parking lot asphalt, and lost.

Who cares, BB finally realized that they were in a bidding war with themselves. 

No one wanted Welker but them, only one other team made a move on him when he was let go and that wasn't even a contender. It was a ticket selling move, the guy had to beg Denver for an audience. 

Tom Brady made Wes Welker, not the other way around. The Patriots will endure without Welker, Welker WILL NOT catch 100 balls in Denver. 

No one knows what the incentives may have been and without the incentives it was 2 year 10 million.  Lets say the incentives included % of plays on the field.  Who controls that?  What if the incentives included 115 catches while the pats control the % of plays on the field. 

I don't care who you are, you don't become as successful as Kraft has become without knowing how to negotiate, when to hold and when to fold, and how to spin public perception. 

What Kraft is spinning isn't completely accurate and isn't completely inaccurate, but I do believe they offered the agent a take it or leave it deal.  If not, things wouldn't have happened so quickly. 

By the way, what the hell happened to Kraft's face.  He looks like he got in a fight with some parking lot asphalt, and lost.

I remember seeing Manning and Irsay standing side-by-side in a tearful and heartfelt farewell press conference.  I'd say the decision to part ways couldn't have been more amicable and mutual given the turmoil of the prior year and how the Polian's left the colts virtually bereft of talent. 

Is that what we're getting from Kraft and Welker's agent? 

But that's beside the point. My comment was not at all to disparage Welker or Kraft but rather to call it like I see it. 

Did you happen to see Kraft's interview?  He had like 3 or 4 pretty raw and large scratches on his face. 

In response to UD6's comment:

No one knows what the incentives may have been and without the incentives it was 2 year 10 million.  Lets say the incentives included % of plays on the field.  Who controls that?  What if the incentives included 115 catches while the pats control the % of plays on the field. 

I don't care who you are, you don't become as successful as Kraft has become without knowing how to negotiate, when to hold and when to fold, and how to spin public perception. 

What Kraft is spinning isn't completely accurate and isn't completely inaccurate, but I do believe they offered the agent a take it or leave it deal.  If not, things wouldn't have happened so quickly. 

By the way, what the hell happened to Kraft's face.  He looks like he got in a fight with some parking lot asphalt, and lost.

Doggg your agenda is showing again.

In your first sentence you chastise everyone for not knowing what the incentives are but in the next sentence you have no problem making those supositions yourself.  Pot meet kettle...

As far as Kraft spinning public perception???? If that was the case it would have been through unamed sources to whoever they use to get their "spin" out. Kraft and BB never go public themselves to explain things. When this happens and it  is rare then it is usually to correct some misconception or in this case perhaps the truth.

As far as Kraft's face is concerned it is reported it is a melanoma.

In response to jri37's comment:

In response to UD6's comment:

No one knows what the incentives may have been and without the incentives it was 2 year 10 million.  Lets say the incentives included % of plays on the field.  Who controls that?  What if the incentives included 115 catches while the pats control the % of plays on the field. 

I don't care who you are, you don't become as successful as Kraft has become without knowing how to negotiate, when to hold and when to fold, and how to spin public perception. 

What Kraft is spinning isn't completely accurate and isn't completely inaccurate, but I do believe they offered the agent a take it or leave it deal.  If not, things wouldn't have happened so quickly. 

By the way, what the hell happened to Kraft's face.  He looks like he got in a fight with some parking lot asphalt, and lost.

Doggg your agenda is showing again.

In your first sentence you chastise everyone for not knowing what the incentives are but in the next sentence you have no problem making those supositions yourself.  Pot meet kettle...

As far as Kraft spinning public perception???? If that was the case it would have been through unamed sources to whoever they use to get their "spin" out. Kraft and BB never go public themselves to explain things. When this happens and it  is rare then it is usually to correct some misconception or in this case perhaps the truth.

As far as Kraft's face is concerned it is reported it is a melanoma.

Jri - you may call it chastising if you wish, but if that's where you are going, then the chastising isn't about not knowing the incentives, its about taking either of these guys' comments at face vaue.  The devil is in the details, and for deals not done, those generally are never known. 

And I disagree with you on the spinning public perception.  Spin is no more "authentic" than when it comes from the source itself.  I think the reason that Kraft is doing this is because 1) he's getting backlash and 2) he publicly said he wanted welker to be a patriot for life.  Typically a comment like that isn't attached to an unsaid "as long as he takes our offer without negotiation". 

Kraft didn't need to get out there on this.  That he has allows it to continue to be a story that can be rebutted by the other side.  Ultimately, I think the other side is saying that Welker wanted to be a patriot but expected a little more work from the team, and that didn't happen. 

Sorry about the Melanoma.  Hopefully its not too serious and something he can overcome. 

jri - every team gets backlash all of the time.  I haven't seen any comments from Belichick on this subject, only Kraft.  And I believe that Kraft's responses are because 1) he's at the owners meetings (in public) where he is subject to reporters questions, and 2) because he said before this thing blew up that he wanted Welker to be a Patriot for life. 

As for the contracts, the devil is in the details that we don't know.  Kraft is saying 2 and possibly 16.  Welker is saying 2 and 10.  If the incentives are such that they are controlled by how much time Welker spends on the field and how he produces, then those are not player friendly incentives. 

I believe reason that Kraft is so out front on this is because unlike other vets the pats have let go, everyone believes that Welker has been nothing if not a team guy and has outplayed his contract as much as anyone.  The little guy is saying pay the man.  He's proved his worth.  Kraft looks like a guy who is insensitive to that performance.  Right or wrong, that's the perception.