Kraft: "WE Offered Welker a Better Contract Than Welker Got. That is Sad"

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    there is no evidence of what Wes asked for, only speculation.Based on what he was offered and signed for, there is reason to believe that Wes would have accepted 3/$15;

    $6M signing bonus.

    2013-$2.5M

    2014-$3.0M

    2015-$3.5M

    Cap hit 2013-$4.5M. 2014-$5M. 2015-$5.5

    Based on Hartline, Jennings, Amendola numbers, the Pats would have been lauded for signing Wes to 3/$15

    The financials would have been very similar to Amendola. They would have had Wes for 3 years. I do not see the Pats paying amendola after 3 years. He will be extended or released. So similar $$$, similar years, the Pats took Amendola over Wes. Do they think Amendola is better? Amendola is younger, but they would have Wes and Amendola for the same 3 years.

    It appears Wes agents tried to negotiate with the Pats. It is stated the Pats made 1 offer, and did not budge or counter.

    The facts are the Pats read the market on Wes very well. Wes and his agent did not. But the Pats now have a worse WR situation than they had last year (so far) due to approx $1.75M per season over the next 3 seasons.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    Jri - You and I can agree to disagree about Welker's pay.  I don't care where he plays as a receiver as today there are alot of twins, trips, and bunch formations. 

    Welker outproduced wideouts/slots/ and TE's over his time with the pats. 

    And yes, I do consider it disingenuous that Kraft said he wanted welker to be a patriot for life then, according to some very detailed text from Welker's agent suggests otherwise.  Someone who professes as much does more than make one effort to make that happen. 

     

     



    Here's a question: How many slot WRs had Tom Brady, Randy Moss, two HOFers, amongst a great O Line and O Line coach AND a brilliant head coach like BB alongside them like Welker?

     

    Hmm.

    Name another slot WR in this league, to begin with.  The reason why you can't name one that even comes close to Welker isn't JUST because of Welker being very good at what he does and no one not being close, it's because of the system.

    I'll bet you right now he doesn't get to 120 receptions with Gomer next year.

    Barring Denver using Welker differently next year, which is doubtful, a lot of it is how Brady could be able to put the ball in the right spot. That's not that easy.

    Manning's whole game last year was playaction and putting the ball up to larger WRs or TEs over the middle.

    Welker gets open very quickly, but if you take it away, which has been done as we've seen in recent playoff games even if he's had a few big plays bloating his stats, it can stall an offense.

     

     



    I see.  Diminish his accomplishments by trotting out all of the other people.  Did you ever think Moss might have benefitted from Welker?  Moss had his great years in Minnesota with whom?  Another great receiver carter.  Maybe Moss thrived due to Welker's presence.  Welker certainly thrived without Moss.  Moss without Welker or Carter - not so much. 

     

    Did you know that Brady never won an MVP without Welker?  Maybe Welker helps Brady.  Brady's certainly been his most productive with Welker.

    Would it matter if Welker got 120?  Is that the standard he must set?  I don't think so.  He just needs to help the offense be better.  He can do that. 

    Manning's had plenty of experience throwing to small receivers.  Marvin Harrison, Brandon Stokely, etc. 

     




    Did you know that Brady should have won the MVP in 2006, but didn't because an MVP is more about stats than it is being actual most valuable?

     

    The reason why I used those names was not to diminish his accomplishments, but to expose you with the fact THERE IS NO ESTABLISHED SLOT WR MARKET.

    Get it?

    He is the market! What did he just get?  NE thought 16 million guaranteed, 8 per, GUARANTEED was the market in 2011. He didn't think so.

    Christ, he was looking for 10 per aka Fitzgeraldn money through LAST YEAR! That's insane! 

    DELUSIONAL. His agent was greedy and misled him. END OF STORY.

    BB would be strung up by the media he gave him 10 mil per and 3 years in 2011 and our team WOULD BE WORSE for it.

    WORSE.

    Flat cap.

    LEARN.



    What a croc. 

    Should have won MVP?  If that's the case, then Manning was the hands down winner in 2011 when he didn't play.  In fact, he was exactly that valuable to his team much of his career. 

    And if no market exists for Slot receivers then Welker is just another receiver and was absolutely screwed by the pats given his continued production. 

    He was offered 2 years for 10 got an offer from Denver at 2 and 12 called Kraft to see if he wanted to counter, Kraft said no.  Done.  A measly 2 million to keep an all-timer for your franchise after Brady restructured.  Stop spinning.  this was an easy answer for the pats to make and they said no. 

    The 10 mill per year was a non-consideration the year before.  It wasn't a consideration this year.  All Kraft had to do was match.  Welker wanted to be with Brady.  Stop your spinning.  Stop talking about things that don't matter.  This is about 1 million a year for 2 years after Bradys restructure.  That's it.  End of Story. 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    Trust me Russ - the trophy for arrogance is emblazoned with your picture and your name and they take up the entire trophy so that no others can claim it. 

    They may be changing the offense, but I'd like to know how you know this at this early date?  You are no clairvoyant. 

    The pats cap isn't an issue.  Brady made sure of that.  And giving welker an extra million per year for 2 years in a counter offer to keep him wasn't going to upset that.  Especially given that Amendola's # will be around that for the first couple of years. 

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrtm70. Show mrtm70's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    The pats cap isn't an issue.  Brady made sure of that.  And giving welker an extra million per year for 2 years in a counter offer to keep him wasn't going to upset that.  Especially given that Amendola's # will be around that for the first couple of years.

    But what you clearly keep missing is that this "counter-offer" never happened because WW & his Agent waited too long to get back to the Pats about the Pats "possibly" giving WW a counter-offer & by the time they did, the Pats had decided they couldn't wait on WW any longer and signed Dany Amendola so that they wouldn't loose him also from other interested teams since they felt they were going to most likely loose WW as well because of how negotiations with WW had already gone.



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    Russ, I don't care about the pats management secrets.  They let one of their two most productive offensive players of the last decade walk for 1 million dollars this year and one million next year.  The player is still producing at an incredibly high level and they just paid a less proven often injured player more to take essentially the same position. 

    As for your Kraft won't overpay - according to you, how could he - per you no market exists for a slot receiver.  thus he is simply a receiver and he paid the player to take his place the same money per year that Welker got elsewhere - doesn't make sense.  At least not the way you are trying to spin it. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    Waited too long??  For one of the team's top 2 offensive players in the last decade? 

    This again proves my point.  Kraft was disnigenuous with his statement that he wanted Welker to be a patriot for life.  Those kind of attestations deserve 24 hours.  I remind you that the pats paid Amendola the same per year as welker got from the broncos and likely would have accepted from the pats. 

    2 million over 2 years. 

    Anyway - I think I am done on the subject.  I've worn it out.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    Waited too long??  For one of the team's top 2 offensive players in the last decade? 

    This again proves my point.  Kraft was disnigenuous with his statement that he wanted Welker to be a patriot for life.  Those kind of attestations deserve 24 hours.  I remind you that the pats paid Amendola the same per year as welker got from the broncos and likely would have accepted from the pats. 

    2 million over 2 years. 

    Anyway - I think I am done on the subject.  I've worn it out.



    Kraft wanted Wes, but at his price.  Kraft didn't want him badly enough to pay any more. This may be wise--we'll see what happens--but Welker got something from Denver he liked better and went there.  That's just the risk you take whenever you negotiate.  Some deals never work because the parties just can't find common ground and don't want he deal badly enough to make the required compromises.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9070512

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    Polian got fired because he handed the reigns to his son who was a failure and was becoming an overly obstinate curmudgeon.  His 6 exec of the year awards went to his head. 

    I love how you always tell me what NE is about to do as if you have some inside knowledge or are clairvoyant. 

    Did Welker's production drop off last year?  No.  In fact, given that the pats shunned him the first couple of games last year, his production could actually be seen as up.  Ray Allen is 37.  He played half a season last year in Boston.  That's a drop off.  Urlacher will be 35 before next season starts and his production has been dropping the last couple of years, and he was hurt last year. 

    No one is above the team?  How about Mankins?  How about Brady?  They made public stinks, but they are still on the pats. 

    And I am not questioning the pats success, much of it due to the defense in the early half of last decade and brady since.  I am just saying that the Pats showed little appreciation to Welker and could have had him another 2 year for just 2 mill more.  And I am saying Kraft was disingenuous in his public attestation that he wanted welker as a pat for life.  Apparently not. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    Waited too long??  For one of the team's top 2 offensive players in the last decade? 

    This again proves my point.  Kraft was disnigenuous with his statement that he wanted Welker to be a patriot for life.  Those kind of attestations deserve 24 hours.  I remind you that the pats paid Amendola the same per year as welker got from the broncos and likely would have accepted from the pats. 

    2 million over 2 years. 

    Anyway - I think I am done on the subject.  I've worn it out.




    Oh look at you trolling again.  People keep focusing on the supposed trivial difference between what Wes got with the Broncos and what the Patriots offered.  THAT COMPLETELY MISSES THE POINT.  When that contract was offered the Patriots had already signed Amendola.  Why?  Because as it has already been reported numerous times by Reiss, Holley etc. Welker's representatives were insisting on a contract that was consistent with a 15 million dollar signing bonus (at the minimum) for the 24 months since Welker and NE first entered negotiations all the way through the legal tampering period this year.  That was a nonstarter for NE so when the tampering period ended they immediately signed Amendola presumably under the assumption that there was a chance that Welker was going to walk AND because despite his injury history he is younger, more athletic and could potentially be a more versatile piece in the offense.

    So by the time Welker and his agent realized they had totally misread the market the Patriots had already brought in his replacement.  So then the question of offering him another contract is not just what money he is going to get paid, but how much of the team's budget they want to devote to the WR position. Despite all of this they offered him a contract that paid him more money up front AND had the potential for a larger payout.  Some people thought the incentives were steep, but this again misses the point.  The first is that if Welker continues to perform at the level he has the past few seasons he could easily get the 2 million dollars people are whining about.  More importantly if the team is going to put more money on the WR position you better dam well believe they should only pay if they are going to get their money's worth. 

    Finally people keep talking about Amendola's contract.  The only way he even sees most of that money is if he is productive AND healthy (via the guaranteed money and clauses about health).  If both of those things happen then IT WAS A BETTER DEAL THAN KEEPING WES because he would be a longer term solution.  Is bringing in Amendola a risk?  Sure, but sometimes you have to take risks.  It is the nature of the dam business.  Learn the game you pathetic troll.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    Waited too long??  For one of the team's top 2 offensive players in the last decade? 

    This again proves my point.  Kraft was disnigenuous with his statement that he wanted Welker to be a patriot for life.  Those kind of attestations deserve 24 hours.  I remind you that the pats paid Amendola the same per year as welker got from the broncos and likely would have accepted from the pats. 

    2 million over 2 years. 

    Anyway - I think I am done on the subject.  I've worn it out.

     




    Oh look at you trolling again.  People keep focusing on the supposed trivial difference between what Wes got with the Broncos and what the Patriots offered.  THAT COMPLETELY MISSES THE POINT.  When that contract was offered the Patriots had already signed Amendola.  Why?  Because as it has already been reported numerous times by Reiss, Holley etc. Welker's representatives were insisting on a contract that was consistent with a 15 million dollar signing bonus (at the minimum) for the 24 months since Welker and NE first entered negotiations all the way through the legal tampering period this year.  That was a nonstarter for NE so when the tampering period ended they immediately signed Amendola presumably under the assumption that there was a chance that Welker was going to walk AND because despite his injury history he is younger, more athletic and could potentially be a more versatile piece in the offense.

     

    So by the time Welker and his agent realized they had totally misread the market the Patriots had already brought in his replacement.  So then the question of offering him another contract is not just what money he is going to get paid, but how much of the team's budget they want to devote to the WR position. Despite all of this they offered him a contract that paid him more money up front AND had the potential for a larger payout.  Some people thought the incentives were steep, but this again misses the point.  The first is that if Welker continues to perform at the level he has the past few seasons he could easily get the 2 million dollars people are whining about.  More importantly if the team is going to put more money on the WR position you better dam well believe they should only pay if they are going to get their money's worth. 

    Finally people keep talking about Amendola's contract.  The only way he even sees most of that money is if he is productive AND healthy (via the guaranteed money and clauses about health).  If both of those things happen then IT WAS A BETTER DEAL THAN KEEPING WES because he would be a longer term solution.  Is bringing in Amendola a risk?  Sure, but sometimes you have to take risks.  It is the nature of the dam business.  Learn the game you pathetic troll.



    Not according to Rusty.  Rusty says the pats wanted both Welker and Amendola.  Are you suggesting that 1 mill per year for 2 years was too much after getting a call directly from Welker - who apparently Kraft loves?  Please.

    As for the incentives - how many receivers in the NFL have out performed welker in the last 5 years.  Those kinds of incentives are insults.  The pats knew who they had in Welker. 

    Again 1 million per year for two years.  That's it to make this happen.  Pats walked away from welker's phone call, but remember Bob Kraft wants welker to be a patriot for life. 

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    What is the point of debating a troll?  His agenda requires that he defend his position and ignore the facts.  Will miss Welker.  I'm glad the Pats did what they needed to do.  Welker will be great for the Broncos

     
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