Kraft: "WE Offered Welker a Better Contract Than Welker Got. That is Sad"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    Man, people get on me to let this go, which I do until these same people keep it going with more and more threads.

    It's all about who you believe.  The Patriots have used the strong arm tactic before, does it not surprise you they did it here again?  More and more stories continue to come out on what happened,,

    From Breer on NFL network today:

    The Patriots' final offer was two years for $10 million. Incentives could have pushed the deal to $16 million. The offer to Welker included $1 million incentives for making All-Pro each year, $1 million incentives for 1,500 yards receiving each year, $1 million for being a Pro Bowl starter in 2014 and $1 million for 1,300 yards in 2014. According to the source, Welker's camp then suggested something in the range of the two-year, $14 million that the Titans offered the receiver, with incentives to push it to $16 million.

    ******

    Those are some pretty tough incentives to meet especially if they continued to try and phase him out of the offense with less playing time.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    I just think it's funny how quickly people forget that professional agents are often cold-blooded reptiles.  The nature of their job precludes honesty.

    Even if Kraft is spinning this, good for him.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    I said it when it happened and i stand by it. Wes' agents flubbed this up by being greedy and not knowing the market. So a fan favorite is basically gone due to a greedy agent and Wes didnt look very happy in front of that podium in Denver. Dems the breaks! Real Winners negotiate their OWN contracts ala  Tedy Bruschi, Troy Brown! Man, them days are long gone! Let him go to Denver and get less money to be a loser.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Man, people get on me to let this go, which I do until these same people keep it going with more and more threads.

    It's all about who you believe.  The Patriots have used the strong arm tactic before, does it not surprise you they did it here again?  More and more stories continue to come out on what happened,,

    From Breer on NFL network today:

    The Patriots' final offer was two years for $10 million. Incentives could have pushed the deal to $16 million. The offer to Welker included $1 million incentives for making All-Pro each year, $1 million incentives for 1,500 yards receiving each year, $1 million for being a Pro Bowl starter in 2014 and $1 million for 1,300 yards in 2014. According to the source, Welker's camp then suggested something in the range of the two-year, $14 million that the Titans offered the receiver, with incentives to push it to $16 million.

    ******

    Those are some pretty tough incentives to meet especially if they continued to try and phase him out of the offense with less playing time.




    Those incentives are a bad bet for any player...1 million for 1500 yards receiving? So now all the sudden Welker is being expected to run a 4.4 and get 15 yards a catch? Riducolous. He had to make All Pro to receive another million? In both years?

    I seriously can't believe Kraft is running around saying they wanted to keep him and it was his agent's fault with incentives like that. Just today Welker's agent fired right back. The Patriot's should of tread a little more carefully on this one, because...A. outside of this forum people are pissed, I mean even the most serious of koolaid drinkers questioned this..and B. for this decision to work Amendola is going to have to stay healthy for the entire season and produce in a huge way. Amendola is put in a very tough spot here, because even if he has the season of his life, he still won't put up the production Welker did.

    Personally I think the only way this works out for the Krafts (and you know they want to be able to go on a pregame show and tell the world "I told you so"), is if Welker blows out a knee and misses the entire season. I really think that may be the only way this doesn't blow up in their face, because baring a major injury, Welker will do well in Denver...or maybe an injury to Manning, but Welker can play with any QB.

    Personally I understood the need to get younger, but not at the price we could of had Welker for apparently. That I do NOT agree with. We could of had the best and most reliable slot receiver for basically a two year 12 million dollar deal...with the second year not guaranteed?? This was personal, this was dumb business, this may blow up in our faces. The Milloy thing? We had Rodney Harrison. The Seymore thing? I got to tell you that hurt this team. Asante? Took us five years to replace him and we may of finally did that by signing one of the biggest thugs in the NFL. Losing Branch in his prime? Cost us a Super Bowl.

    I could understand if Welker got a 4 year 32 million dollar contract offer from someone else, but this was two years at a bargain price. We overpayed for a injury prone guy to replace him. The whole thing is disappointing.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from darwk. Show darwk's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    This is one ugly breakup. And from my outside perch I think Wes was blindsided in a big way. Read his agent's Dunn's "no offer" reponse to Kraft's explanation on how they really really wanted Wes to stay but in the end could not get the deal done.

    This blame game can go on ad nauseaum.  Bottom line fans lose, Pat's lose, and Wes loses. Not that I think he won't play like the most productive slot receiver he is in Denver. He will. I think he wanted to retire a Pat as well. Really mishandled by all involved in the so call negotiations.

    Tough to move on, because there is  lot to disect in this mess.  In my view Wes was/is irreplaceable.  Yeah you can insert DA and hope he gets the system and has the chemistry with TB and doesn't get injured.  Yep, the team will go  on, the game will go on, and the Pats will be competitive.   Wes didn't have to exit the way he did.  This was nasty business.

    I have nothing but respect for Wes. One of the best.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Man, people get on me to let this go, which I do until these same people keep it going with more and more threads.

    It's all about who you believe.  The Patriots have used the strong arm tactic before, does it not surprise you they did it here again?  More and more stories continue to come out on what happened,,

    From Breer on NFL network today:

    The Patriots' final offer was two years for $10 million. Incentives could have pushed the deal to $16 million. The offer to Welker included $1 million incentives for making All-Pro each year, $1 million incentives for 1,500 yards receiving each year, $1 million for being a Pro Bowl starter in 2014 and $1 million for 1,300 yards in 2014. According to the source, Welker's camp then suggested something in the range of the two-year, $14 million that the Titans offered the receiver, with incentives to push it to $16 million.

    ******

    Those are some pretty tough incentives to meet especially if they continued to try and phase him out of the offense with less playing time.




    Three things to consider.  The first is that Reiss has reported that the deal was structured such that he would get 8 million in the first year (4 million signing bonus and 4 million base salary) which is more than what he will get from the Broncos and the Broncos deal is structured such that it is basically a one year deal with a team option.

    Second Reiss reported that since they started negotiating almost 24 months ago Welker's agents were demanding a deal with a 15 million dollar signing bonus all the way through the legal tampering period this year.  So the Pats moved on and brought in Amendola and then still made an offer to Wes.

    Third consider that since Welker has been in NE he has been a pro bowler every year and an all-pro every year except 2010 when he was coming off injury.  It doesn't strike me as unlikely that he could have gotten at least as much money as he could get from the Broncos if they exercise their option AND he would have gotten more up front from NE.

    The point here is that Welker's agents vastly overestimated his value.  The Patriots decided to move on and brought in Amendola before anyone else could and then still made an offer to Wes that wasn't imo that different than what he took to leave and Welker's agents have the balls to say the Patriots didn't want him.  Spare me.  That is why Kraft is complaining publicly.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    Any contract is signed because both parties are going to benefit.  In between one party's minimum profitable position and the other party's minimum profitable position is a no-mans-land.  In the case of Welker and the Pats, Brady would keep a completely experienced receiver and the Patriots brand would be intact, keeping fan interest and generating more revenues for Mr. Kraft.  Welker would get a guy who leads him perfectly and generally keeps him upright.  In all of Welker's time with the Patriot football club, the only time that he really got injured was because of bad footing while he was running in the open. 

    When both parties benefit there are millions of dollars of gravy between the two parties.  Each party wants their side to get the $900,000 and the other side to get the $100,000, and so they play a brinksmanship game.  In the short run, whoever gets the $900,000 side is the clear winner.  Many, many books have been written on the art of winning negotiations.  "It's not what you're worth, it's what you negotiate" runs one aphorism. Basically, both sides are playing a game akin to poker.  Who is going to blink first?  Is the other side exhibiting a "tell"?

    In the long run, both agents and teams get a rep for being a bunch of skinflints (don't deal with these creeps), for being too easy (take them for all they're worth) or for being fair.  In this case, both Jonathan Kraft and Tom Condon were going to be (skinflint, fair, take your pick).  By the rules of the game, Condon wasn't going to take a "bad" final offer so he left and took a much worse offer.  This will show the next team that yes, Condon will walk if he doesn't get a "fair" enough offer out of them. 

    Jonathan Kraft got the same long-range image.  This will show the next agent that yes, the Patriots will not budge if they feel the agent isn't being "fair".

    Both Kraft and Welker lost. 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:


    Yep. It baffles my mind how anyone can come to a different conclusion.  Anyone taking the other opinion is a brainwashed anti-BB or anti- Kraft dribblebib.

     

    A 15 million dollar signing bonus?  It's bizarre that Dunn thought he had leverage. I kept warning TFB12 he did not have leverage at all.

    Poof. He's gone.

     



    Hahaha, banned again and comes back with one of his hundred different screen names.  I guess he doesn't get the hint around here.

    Everyone on here was putting out their contract offers that the Pats should give to Welker and most included multi years around $7-$8 mill per year with high singing bonus dollars or high guaranteed money.  The market was different last season and when the market starting showing other numbers it looks like Welker adjusted his too. 

    Had the Patriots wanted to keep him like Kraft said then they could have kept him for just a bit more money or a contract without those crazy incentives.  Kraft jumped and got out early to say he wanted Welker for the rest of his playing days, to paint a pretty picture to the fans... the only problem is they weren't willing to budge on their offer.  He didn't take into consideration that others would speak up and tell the real story.

    So the Pats continue to assign these "value" type figures and they end up getting the Donald Jones' of the league.  The injury prone Amendola's of the league.  Once again, quantity over quality!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    Please stop revisiting this matter.  It is a matter of history.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Man, people get on me to let this go, which I do until these same people keep it going with more and more threads.

    It's all about who you believe.  The Patriots have used the strong arm tactic before, does it not surprise you they did it here again?  More and more stories continue to come out on what happened,,

    From Breer on NFL network today:

    The Patriots' final offer was two years for $10 million. Incentives could have pushed the deal to $16 million. The offer to Welker included $1 million incentives for making All-Pro each year, $1 million incentives for 1,500 yards receiving each year, $1 million for being a Pro Bowl starter in 2014 and $1 million for 1,300 yards in 2014. According to the source, Welker's camp then suggested something in the range of the two-year, $14 million that the Titans offered the receiver, with incentives to push it to $16 million.

    ******

    Those are some pretty tough incentives to meet especially if they continued to try and phase him out of the offense with less playing time.

     




    Three things to consider.  The first is that Reiss has reported that the deal was structured such that he would get 8 million in the first year (4 million signing bonus and 4 million base salary) which is more than what he will get from the Broncos and the Broncos deal is structured such that it is basically a one year deal with a team option.

     

    Second Reiss reported that since they started negotiating almost 24 months ago Welker's agents were demanding a deal with a 15 million dollar signing bonus all the way through the legal tampering period this year.  So the Pats moved on and brought in Amendola and then still made an offer to Wes.

    Third consider that since Welker has been in NE he has been a pro bowler every year and an all-pro every year except 2010 when he was coming off injury.  It doesn't strike me as unlikely that he could have gotten at least as much money as he could get from the Broncos if they exercise their option AND he would have gotten more up front from NE.

    The point here is that Welker's agents vastly overestimated his value.  The Patriots decided to move on and brought in Amendola before anyone else could and then still made an offer to Wes that wasn't imo that different than what he took to leave and Welker's agents have the balls to say the Patriots didn't want him.  Spare me.  That is why Kraft is complaining publicly.



    Well said. What this whole thing comes down to is that Wes thought he was worth a lot more. The market actually validated the Pats position that he was worth about what they had offered him. At that point I think Wes probably felt like he had been dissed by the Pats and had made up his mind that even with an equal deal he would just go elsewhere. 

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to Macrawn's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Man, people get on me to let this go, which I do until these same people keep it going with more and more threads.

    It's all about who you believe.  The Patriots have used the strong arm tactic before, does it not surprise you they did it here again?  More and more stories continue to come out on what happened,,

    From Breer on NFL network today:

    The Patriots' final offer was two years for $10 million. Incentives could have pushed the deal to $16 million. The offer to Welker included $1 million incentives for making All-Pro each year, $1 million incentives for 1,500 yards receiving each year, $1 million for being a Pro Bowl starter in 2014 and $1 million for 1,300 yards in 2014. According to the source, Welker's camp then suggested something in the range of the two-year, $14 million that the Titans offered the receiver, with incentives to push it to $16 million.

    ******

    Those are some pretty tough incentives to meet especially if they continued to try and phase him out of the offense with less playing time.

     




    Three things to consider.  The first is that Reiss has reported that the deal was structured such that he would get 8 million in the first year (4 million signing bonus and 4 million base salary) which is more than what he will get from the Broncos and the Broncos deal is structured such that it is basically a one year deal with a team option.

     

    Second Reiss reported that since they started negotiating almost 24 months ago Welker's agents were demanding a deal with a 15 million dollar signing bonus all the way through the legal tampering period this year.  So the Pats moved on and brought in Amendola and then still made an offer to Wes.

    Third consider that since Welker has been in NE he has been a pro bowler every year and an all-pro every year except 2010 when he was coming off injury.  It doesn't strike me as unlikely that he could have gotten at least as much money as he could get from the Broncos if they exercise their option AND he would have gotten more up front from NE.

    The point here is that Welker's agents vastly overestimated his value.  The Patriots decided to move on and brought in Amendola before anyone else could and then still made an offer to Wes that wasn't imo that different than what he took to leave and Welker's agents have the balls to say the Patriots didn't want him.  Spare me.  That is why Kraft is complaining publicly.

     



    Well said. What this whole thing comes down to is that Wes thought he was worth a lot more. The market actually validated the Pats position that he was worth about what they had offered him. At that point I think Wes probably felt like he had been dissed by the Pats and had made up his mind that even with an equal deal he would just go elsewhere. 

     

     




    Apparently you are not following along.  That wasn't what happened. You need to go out and read the current articles that have came out late yesterday and earlier today.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:



    Wht "hint" is that? People get absolutely outdebated and then go running to the mods out of embarrassment to get me banned?

     

    Some $5/hr college kid sits in a cubicle waiting for a certain amount of flag and then hits a button? That's the "hint"?

    bawahah



    The hint that people are tired of you.  Tired of you spamming the forum with your agenda's.  Tired of you claiming one thing in one thread then another thing that contradicts yourself in another thread.

     

    For the record, I have never reported you.  I should for all the spamming you do around here but I haven't.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Apparently you are not following along.  That wasn't what happened. You need to go out and read the current articles that have came out late yesterday and earlier today.



    Oh?  What are you claiming did happen?

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ROWDYRODRUST. Show ROWDYRODRUST's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    In response to darwk's comment:

    This is one ugly breakup. And from my outside perch I think Wes was blindsided in a big way. Read his agent's Dunn's "no offer" reponse to Kraft's explanation on how they really really wanted Wes to stay but in the end could not get the deal done.

    This blame game can go on ad nauseaum.  Bottom line fans lose, Pat's lose, and Wes loses. Not that I think he won't play like the most productive slot receiver he is in Denver. He will. I think he wanted to retire a Pat as well. Really mishandled by all involved in the so call negotiations.

    Tough to move on, because there is  lot to disect in this mess.  In my view Wes was/is irreplaceable.  Yeah you can insert DA and hope he gets the system and has the chemistry with TB and doesn't get injured.  Yep, the team will go  on, the game will go on, and the Pats will be competitive.   Wes didn't have to exit the way he did.  This was nasty business.

    I have nothing but respect for Wes. One of the best.




    Well said.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    bye Leon.......

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ROWDYRODRUST. Show ROWDYRODRUST's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    I was in Denver this past weekend and stayed at a hotel right across for SA Field. I went into their proshop and they are selling Welker jerseys to beat the band. Orange 83's had there own section and employees saying that they've been flying out the door because the Broncos print them out on site and no other store in Denver has them yet.

    Wes is gone and it sucks IMO. It's a loss for both sides but most importantly it's a loss the fans.

    It's time to move on but it sucks.

    Incidently, I saw Drew Bledsoe as I was picking up my bags in Laguardia yesterday. I walked passed him and didn't initially notice him on the way to baggage claim. I said hello and he was very personable. Couldn't help but wonder what he was doing in New York. He'd STILL be better than anything the Jets have going on. ;)

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Kraft:

    Snitch ?

    lol.........just a matter of time Leon. In the meantime, how do you think the Jets hope to contend with the Pats powerhouse this year?

     
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