Last 7 Patriot drafts

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Last 7 Patriot drafts

    Had an inkling about this and checked it out.  Remaining players:

    '03 Warren Koppen Banta-Cain
    '04 Wilfork Watson
    '05 Mankins Kazcur Sanders
    '06 Maroney Gostowski
    '07 Meriweather
    '08 Mayo Wheatley Crable Wilhite Slater
    '09 Chung Brace Butler Vollmer Tate McKenzie Ornberger Ingram Pryor Bussey Edelman and Richard

    I think we are seeing the temporary (hopefully) effects of the lack of results from our '06 and '07 drafts. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RahZid. Show RahZid's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    It's worth noting that Welker and Moss came from the '07 draft as well.  But when your best remaining player from a recent draft is a kicker, ('06) you had a bad draft.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RahZid. Show RahZid's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    You should probably include undrafted FA's as well though, as they play just as big of a role in long term success (Gary Guyton for example)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimKe. Show JimKe's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts


    I think you can summarize the 2006, 2007, and 2008 drafts as not so hot.

    With regard to the earlier drafts, a lot of the players reached the end of

    their contracts and went to other teams for more money.  I don't know

    whether the Patriots are willing to pay the going rate for good players

    when their rookie contracts run out. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pgc200. Show pgc200's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    the 07 draft was a disaster (moss trade not withstanding) but doesn't this underscore that Scott Pioli tenure was all sizzle and no steak?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuckfairbanks. Show chuckfairbanks's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    They traded 3 picks from the '07 draft for Welker and Moss.  Whom else would you rather have than those 2 WRS?  And they got an '09 second rounder for Cassel (drafted 7th round in '05) instead of letting him walk.  Dave Thomas, LeKevin Smith, and Ryan O'Callaghan (all '06 picks) were traded this year for picks.  Smith netted the 5th rounder that then became part of the Burgess deal which should help this year.

    The killer of the '06 draft is they could have had Marion Barber instead of Maroney and GB's Jennings instead of Chad Jackson for whom they had to trade up.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DBCoach. Show DBCoach's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    Belichick knows X's and O's he  does not know personal....... parcells is the personal guy.  all his picks are now gone and the team is a direct result of that and belichecks poor drafting.  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbakilla. Show bubbakilla's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    In Response to Last 7 Patriot drafts:
    [QUOTE]Had an inkling about this and checked it out.  Remaining players: '03 Warren Koppen Banta-Cain '04 Wilfork Watson '05 Mankins Kazcur Sanders '06 Maroney Gostowski '07 Meriweather '08 Mayo Wheatley Crable Wilhite Slater '09 Chung Brace Butler Vollmer Tate McKenzie Ornberger Ingram Pryor Bussey Edelman and Richard I think we are seeing the temporary (hopefully) effects of the lack of results from our '06 and '07 drafts. 
    Posted by schwank[/QUOTE]no duh! i started a thread on this issue and got killed mercilessly . perhaps now that reality has hit, the kool aiders can see that i and others like me had a point all along. in bel i believe and in SB this year i believe too but those poor 3 drafts are killing us. so far, seems like 2009 will be fine. edelman already has proven to b a gem. thats all u need. if u can get a guy like this in the lesser rounds, it means u control him for atleast 5 years at low or reasonable money and u dont have to take crazy risks  with guys like 37 yo fossil joey galloway! more u can keep your stuff in house, better u r. that was the key prior to 2006 draft when we were able to hit HRS draft after draft. look at clark last nite. freakin watson has far more speed and natural talent in a far betta body yet he is not capable of doing most of what clark did last night. colts' receiver was a rookie nobody who scored winning TD with speed and smarts in readg the defense and making a quick, instinctive move to get free. y didnt we get or develop playas like that from 06-08 (minus mayo and gost). thank god for floyd reese. he has helped bug time with this draft. 

    bottom line: due to our bad drafts in 06-08, no SB since 2004 seasonwith philly. 
    we shall make SB again this year if ravens dont beat us but i m sorry we dont stack up well versus the jints or the vikings!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbajo. Show bigbajo's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    the problem with having a team with relatively good depth is that it makes it even harder for rookies to find a spot on the team.  this doesn't excuse poor personnel evaluation but it does help to explain the reason not as many draft picks stick as they may in detroit, for example.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from gfkr2. Show gfkr2's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    In Response to Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts:
    [QUOTE]the 07 draft was a disaster (moss trade not withstanding) but doesn't this underscore that Scott Pioli tenure was all sizzle and no steak?
    Posted by pgc200[/QUOTE]

    2006 was no better with Maroney and Chad Jackson at the top of the Patriot's draft
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    In Response to Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts:
    [QUOTE]the 07 draft was a disaster (moss trade not withstanding) but doesn't this underscore that Scott Pioli tenure was all sizzle and no steak?
    Posted by pgc200[/QUOTE]

    In a word, yes.  He oversaw the organization of the scouting both college and pro.  The Tom Dimitroffs are gone.  I'm not trying to be troll like here, but they believe in a system of having 12-15 core players and what goes with the managing of that system.  Many of their initial core was assembled as far back as the Parcells era (i.e. Bruschi, McGinest, Brown, Law, Milloy).  Not much happened when Pete Carroll/Bobby Grier was here as Kraft was still figuring out how much control one should allow after the Parcells fiasco.  Once he was burned both ways he settled on BB and he resurrected thet team rebuilding/adding to the current core.  He's obviously done a good job on that core, adding Brady, Wilfork, Warren, Mayo, Merweather, Mankins, Koppen).  They've also added to the core via Free Agency, although this is a shorter window of opportunity as the players are older and established (i.e.  Dillon, Moss, Welker, the present FA's, etc.)

    My popint, long winded, is that this core needs constant refreshing and those two years '07 and '06 have hurt the team.  Not drastically, but enough for a guy like BB to recognize and make these drastic moves.  I think we are seeing the future here, the last two drafts have been ones in which we have stockpiled picks and theoretically have controlled the draft.  BB realizes this is the way to go for the next several years in order to remain competitive.  

    I beleive they are still good, but you need great players to separate yourself from the rest.  A wise man once said that if you have a boat load of 4th -5th round players you'll play like a team of 4th and 5th rounders.  Acting as a true COO (respects to Krafts as CEO) BB is doing just that.  Unfortunately because '06 and '07 were thin/poor it's temporarily held together with a less than ideal core group.    
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    Here's something else to chew on. Some of the core Super Bowl players came aboard before Belichick was running the show. Willie McGinest,Ted Johnson, Teddy Bruschi, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Drew Bledzoe. These guys were drafted by Parcels who I kind of think drafts better than Belichick. Ofcourse, Belichick drafted Tom Brady in the sixth round! What can you say about that? Lots! He also drafted Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Deon Branch, David Given (7th rounder) and Assante Samuel. Belichick seems to do well with free agents ala 2001 when he went out and got a whole truck load of them. I really like that he went out and got Ted Washington and signed Rodney Harrison. Both those guys helped put the Pats over the top. Right now I just don't see many of those type of players on the squad. Time will tell.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    Drafts are crapshoots.  Honestly, I don't think anyone has done better through the draft and udfa's than Polian of the colts.  Certainly I think the pats are best at the combo skill of drafting and grabbing value FA's (this includes Moss and Welker because their value is insanely higher than what the org gave up for them).  But pure drafting, I think Polian is best. 

    Anyway, the point is Polian thinks success through the draft is 50/50.  The best teams do better but generally no more than around 60%. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    I just went and looked at my old 2001 Pro Football weekly Draft book. I spotted something that I have noticed about Belichik and a pattern to how he drafts. In 2001 the Pats drafted Richard Seymour. In that same draft there was DL Monte Beisel (who later switched to LB) and Derrick Burgess (who made the same switch to LB). I noticed the same pattern a few years back year where the Pats were focusing on WRs. Around four of them ended up playing for the Pats at one time or another. It was the 2002 draft. In it were: Deon Branch, Jabar Gaffney, David Givens and Donte Stallworth, Marquise Walker (didn't the Pats give him a look and see for about a month). 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    Your right about that! Drafts are crapshoot! I've examined several drafts of the first rounders. Out of 32 players really only five to seven are players and the other are real iffy or busts! Perhaps thats why Belichick went heavy into the second round this year.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wingman23. Show Wingman23's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    The pats had been real good in  drafts in the past, but recently the last couple years they hadnt drafted enough impact players like other top teams have the past 3 or 4 years (Giants, Steelers, Jets etc.)  I would say that although they did draft atleast one good player each year, other teams get multiple impact players each year. 

    Jets - got Reivis, Lowery, D. Harris(Pats were rumored to like him but didnt draft him) Kerry Rhodes,

    Giants safeties Kenny Phillips & M Johnson, J Tuck, Osi U, Kiwanucka, s smith, Mario Manningham, Hakim Nicks, A Bradshaw, B Jacobs, Eli Manning, C Webster, Clint Sintim

    Steelers - Lamar Woodley(Pats couldve had him) Lawrence Timmons, S. Holmes, Rothlesburger, Heath Miller, Brian Mcfadden,

    Patriots - Mayo, Merriweather, J Sanders, ??
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    In Response to Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts:
    [QUOTE]The pats had been real good in  drafts in the past, but recently the last couple years they hadnt drafted enough impact players like other top teams have the past 3 or 4 years (Giants, Steelers, Jets etc.)  I would say that although they did draft atleast one good player each year, other teams get multiple impact players each year.  Jets - got Reivis, Lowery, D. Harris(Pats were rumored to like him but didnt draft him) Kerry Rhodes, Giants safeties Kenny Phillips & M Johnson, J Tuck, Osi U, Kiwanucka, s smith, Mario Manningham, Hakim Nicks, A Bradshaw, B Jacobs, Eli Manning, C Webster, Clint Sintim Steelers - Lamar Woodley(Pats couldve had him) Lawrence Timmons, S. Holmes, Rothlesburger, Heath Miller, Brian Mcfadden, Patriots - Mayo, Merriweather, J Sanders, ??

    That was real good info.  Thanks.   That's really all it is .... a player here ..... a player there.  Nobody expects 7 guys/draft picks to stick and become stars year in and year out.  My point was a bump in the road caused by a weak 06 and 07, which if continues can hurt the cause.  The good news is that the past two years seem to be better!!

    One other note when they draft they project a guy for their system, so one guys success/failure on another team doesn't necessarily transfer .
    Posted by Wingman23[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimKe. Show JimKe's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    In Response to Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts:
    [QUOTE]The pats had been real good in  drafts in the past, but recently the last couple years they hadnt drafted enough impact players like other top teams have the past 3 or 4 years (Giants, Steelers, Jets etc.)  I would say that although they did draft atleast one good player each year, other teams get multiple impact players each year.  Jets - got Reivis, Lowery, D. Harris(Pats were rumored to like him but didnt draft him) Kerry Rhodes, Giants safeties Kenny Phillips & M Johnson, J Tuck, Osi U, Kiwanucka, s smith, Mario Manningham, Hakim Nicks, A Bradshaw, B Jacobs, Eli Manning, C Webster, Clint Sintim Steelers - Lamar Woodley(Pats couldve had him) Lawrence Timmons, S. Holmes, Rothlesburger, Heath Miller, Brian Mcfadden, Patriots - Mayo, Merriweather, J Sanders, ??
    Posted by Wingman23[/QUOTE]
    The Patriots and Jets have different draft philosophies.  The Jets draft for
    quality.  They bundle up picks to get the best player possible.  This is how
    they got Revis, Harris, Kellar, and Sanchez.  The Patriots trade down and
    collect draft picks, some of which they trade for future picks.  This past
    draft appears to be a good one.  They had a lot of misfires 2006-2008. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Last 7 Patriot drafts

    This topic was indeed brought up by Bubba a while back, and he was indeed slammed without cause.  2006-2008 were simply not good drafts.  The fact that more and more of our current "starters" were not drafted by our team kind of validates that.  I think the percentage of FA's on your roster, especially starters, is a good measuring stick for the drafts.  In one game against the Colts long ago the announcers gave both teams praise for their drafting.  They noted how the Colts had only 1 player on their team not drafted by them.  The Pats were not far behind.  Times have changed.

    I think it's fair to say you augment the draft with FA's, not augment FA's with the draft.  It looks like we are back on track now though.  The last draft looks real promising.
     

Share