Let's end this "Push" rule talk this way....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Let's end this "Push" rule talk this way....

    No call, Pats get ball back and "maybe" win with a FG on their own in OT. At least the Jets do not win this game at that moment.

    For now.. this horse is not only dead, the bones are showing.

    On to Miami and see this team get to 6 - 2!!

    Go PATS!!!!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    No call, Pats get ball back and "maybe" win with a FG on their own in OT. At least the Jets do not win this game at that moment.

    For now.. this horse is not only dead, the bones are showing.

    On to Miami and see this team get to 6 - 2!!

    Go PATS!!!!

    [/QUOTE]

    Hear, Hear!!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    Should we just end it with this:

    Hate to say it but the flag was the right call.  Seriously, if you are the ref watching this how could you not make this call?

    We need to learn the rules better.  Apparently there was a clinic held with the team explaining this new rule.  Why did we still do it?  Cost us the game.  Dumb decision by rex to kick a fg that far out.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to Uncle Rico's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Should we just end it with this:

    Hate to say it but the flag was the right call.  Seriously, if you are the ref watching this how could you not make this call?

    We need to learn the rules better.  Apparently there was a clinic held with the team explaining this new rule.  Why did we still do it?  Cost us the game.  Dumb decision by rex to kick a fg that far out.

    [/QUOTE]

    Jeez, when you look at it from this angle it's obvious it was a penalty. And here's the thing, we should of never had to count on a missed field goal to win that game. In fact we are one miracle drive (against the Saints) to losing three games in a row. And we almost lost the Falcons game (and would have if Talib didn't get his hand up in the endzone on that pass). Something is very much wrong, and I don't want to hear injuries because we have supposedly been built smarter than everyone else...for depth...that's all I've heard for the past five years, how we don't sign big name free agents because we build a deep team. Bull crap.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaxpat. Show jaxpat's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't think anyone is disputing the fact it's a penality but the big issue here is the inconsistency on how the rule is applied.  The Jet's committed the identical play and was not flagged.....albeit not to the extent of the Pats play but none the less a penality as well.

    In response to Uncle Rico's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Should we just end it with this:

    Hate to say it but the flag was the right call.  Seriously, if you are the ref watching this how could you not make this call?

    We need to learn the rules better.  Apparently there was a clinic held with the team explaining this new rule.  Why did we still do it?  Cost us the game.  Dumb decision by rex to kick a fg that far out.

    [/QUOTE]

    Jeez, when you look at it from this angle it's obvious it was a penalty. And here's the thing, we should of never had to count on a missed field goal to win that game. In fact we are one miracle drive (against the Saints) to losing three games in a row. And we almost lost the Falcons game (and would have if Talib didn't get his hand up in the endzone on that pass). Something is very much wrong, and I don't want to hear injuries because we have supposedly been built smarter than everyone else...for depth...that's all I've heard for the past five years, how we don't sign big name free agents because we build a deep team. Bull crap.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    If you haven't called the penalty all year, if you didn't call it earlier in the game when the Jests did the same thing, than you certainly don't call it in the waning seconds to decide the game just so Vegas can cover the spread.  

    I moved on the very next day but some threads keep dragging me back to it...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    I watched the coaches film of every field goal in the game last week.  This was the only time the Pats used that technique and the Jets never used it.  The foul was blatantly obvious, and the ref was standing right behind Jones, so he couldn't miss it or ignore it.  I haven't spent time looking at past games to see what was or wasn't called earlier in the season, but in the context of this game, the call was correct and consistently applied.  Pats just made a mistake.  No way around it. 

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    Just watched the FGs in the Saints game.  Pats used the same technique on the final Saints FG (but not prior FGs).  It was not called, but that may have been the play that the Jets saw on film and caused them to alert the league.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    Looking through a few other random games, I haven't yet seen any other team do this.  There is one FG in the Colts-Seahawks game where a Colts defender sort of gets behind a teammate and maybe pushes, but it's more incidental contact than a full-blown push like Jones did.  Just a small sample, but so far, I've only seen a move like Jone's twice--and both times it was Jones doing it (once in Jets game, once in Saints game).

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    Good information prolate.

    As I mentioned it was reported that several Patriot people have said that this rule was taught to the team prior to the season starting.  Anytime a new rule is put in, there is an officials  clinic held with individual teams and this was done with the the Patriots so could it have been taught wrong?  After the game Bill Belicheck kept saying that Jones was not a secondary player.  However, the rule doesn't even mention secondary players it just states "players can not push teammates"  Clearly Jones is pushing a teammate.  I guess Bill and the ST didn't remember the rule.  Stinks this had to happen.  No doubt that if Jones did not do this the Patriots probably would have won the game on the next drive.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just watched the FGs in the Saints game.  Pats used the same technique on the final Saints FG (but not prior FGs).  It was not called, but that may have been the play that the Jets saw on film and caused them to alert the league.  

    [/QUOTE]


    why didnt rex call BB and tell him instead...?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    because he wanted to get the 15 yards and win a game in the lamest way possible ...  with a gift penalty .

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    The fact that Jones did exactly the same thing in the Saints game confirms what BB said:  that this technique was coached.  Unfortunately, the Pats' coaches misunderstood the rule, and apparently the Jets' coaches (maybe with some help from Rob Ryan) were able to turn that misunderstanding into an advantage for them.  

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    because he wanted to get the 15 yards and win a game in the lamest way possible ...  with a gift penalty .

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It's smart coaching.  If you've got an advantage, you don't give it away.  No way around it.  Rex outfoxed Belichick on this one.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    Pro...  good work that misses the point that this new rule is as dumb as a bag of rocks, has no consequence on the field and is excessive in gifting the ball and 15 yards.

    When a rule is that dumb, refs have and use more discretion as to when its called.  THIS IS WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN CALLED BEFORE. 

    The rule is idiotic and was implemented by jacckazses apparently.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    I remember all the things Harvey has written about this, we probably won't see him in here talking about it once he sees this.  sorry for the bad quality, i don't know how to makes these things very well.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pro...  good work that misses the point that this new rule is as dumb as a bag of rocks, has no consequence on the field and is excessive in gifting the ball and 15 yards.

    When a rule is that dumb, refs have and use more discretion as to when its called.  THIS IS WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN CALLED BEFORE. 

    The rule is idiotic and was implemented by jacckazses apparently.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure I think the rule is dumb.  As far as it not being called before, I don't know how many times it's been violated.  I only looked at a small sample of FGs from a few teams, but I only saw it clearly violated twice, both by the Pats.  Apparently, the league was alerted to the Pats' violation of the rule in the Saints game and may have told the refs to be looking for it.  This happens frequently with new rules.  The league reviews every game every week and looks for places where officials made mistakes and then sends out notices to them about what to watch for and what to do differently.  The Pats made a mistake and the Jets took advantage of it.  Can't really blame anyone but the Pats for that.

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pro...  good work that misses the point that this new rule is as dumb as a bag of rocks, has no consequence on the field and is excessive in gifting the ball and 15 yards.

    When a rule is that dumb, refs have and use more discretion as to when its called.  THIS IS WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN CALLED BEFORE. 

    The rule is idiotic and was implemented by jacckazses apparently.

    [/QUOTE]

     

     

    I'm not sure I think the rule is dumb.  As far as it not being called before, I don't know how many times it's been violated.  I only looked at a small sample of FGs from a few teams, but I only saw it clearly violated twice, both by the Pats.  Apparently, the league was alerted to the Pats' violation of the rule in the Saints game and may have told the refs to be looking for it.  This happens frequently with new rules.  The league reviews every game every week and looks for places where officials made mistakes and then sends out notices to them about what to watch for and what to do differently.  The Pats made a mistake and the Jets took advantage of it.  Can't really blame anyone but the Pats for that.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ifyoure not sure answer this....   What was the consequence of pats(jones) violation?

     

    Ill help...  Nothing.  No blocked kick no injury ...  nothing.  A push is a push.  2 players stack their pushing on just about every football play.  Its called a double team.  Wanna outlaw that...?   THe rule is completely assinine as written and penalized.

    Do you want to comment on the 15 yards plus getting the ball back like a turnover....   ALL for a little push?   Come on this is football.  YOu can only legislate so much and after that it is just ticky tack idiocy that interferes with the OUTCOME OF GAMES....!   That is what this rule amounts to.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    The rules is the rules, as they say . . . this particular one was apparently introduced at the request of some players who felt the practice was unsafe:

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/sunday-wrap-pushing-rule-cost-new-england-patriots-redskins-offensive-lineman-will-montgomery-102013

     

    A lot of people don't like certain rules, but you still have to play by them.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pro...  good work that misses the point that this new rule is as dumb as a bag of rocks, has no consequence on the field and is excessive in gifting the ball and 15 yards.

    When a rule is that dumb, refs have and use more discretion as to when its called.  THIS IS WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN CALLED BEFORE. 

    The rule is idiotic and was implemented by jacckazses apparently.

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't understand how you think the rule is dumb?  I see a big safety issue there, you don't?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you haven't called the penalty all year, if you didn't call it earlier in the game when the Jests did the same thing, than you certainly don't call it in the waning seconds to decide the game just so Vegas can cover the spread.  

    I moved on the very next day but some threads keep dragging me back to it...

    [/QUOTE]


    Very flawed logic.  Be happy you got away with it at a crucial moment in the Saints game.  It is at those moments that the rules need to be enforced.  This let them play mentality is sophomoric.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you haven't called the penalty all year, if you didn't call it earlier in the game when the Jests did the same thing, than you certainly don't call it in the waning seconds to decide the game just so Vegas can cover the spread.  

    I moved on the very next day but some threads keep dragging me back to it...

    [/QUOTE]


    Very flawed logic.  Be happy you got away with it at a crucial moment in the Saints game.  It is at those moments that the rules need to be enforced.  This let them play mentality is sophomoric.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree, a rule is the rule.. but, a 15 yard penalty especially when such a play is of no real advantage to the team committing the infraction.  Like an illegal chuck beyond the 5 yard line against a receiver.  You can chuck a guy awfully hard and it is still 5 yards.  Go figure.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    Well since you want to keep bringing it up

    You could see Rex's face and motions on the field that he knew it was called. He didn't want to give the ball back to Brady and he made an unwise football decision that he was pretty sure probably would not be successful.
    He made a bet that it would be called

    You could tell in his game presser that he was sure it was just a good break and he was so happy they finally got one ( forgetting TB of course)
    You could tell he didn't want to talk about what he had done with the Refs pre-game

    You could tell that when the NY media wasn't giving the full credit to him and the Jets for winning he couldn't stand it. And that is why as a great coach he does what great coaches do and looks at eveyy game tape , implying he never got a tip off from his Bro. Which we know he did.

    And you could tell that he knew he "still" wasn't getting credit for the win, when BB said the jets did it too (and yes there is a push - I would never call in a game tying situation either, and for legal beagles - a push is a push, the rule does not differentiate). And Ryan claimed again that he "earned" the win and that was that now lets move on-

    Wasn't what was really earned was a 27-27 tie? Saying someone did or did not out play sameone is superfluous. What a team earns is the score that is.

    What Rex earned is that he is a little petulant child who will do anything to save his job. He knows it, but will he will delude himself just like his whole family feels entitled to thinking that they are the best of everything.

    There are tons of calls not made and Refs as a common sense rule swallow the whistle in times like OT, except for blatant calls that effect a play

    I don't doubt it was a penalty. But along with the NY Media, M Francessa, Steven A etc,  I believe that it shouldn't have been called for: the first time in NFL history, in an OT game, In a divisional game with playoff ramifactions for both the AFC East and the AFC in total

    And how should the League really have handled it you ask?

    When they knew before the weekend games that the penalty was not being called by anyone (20 or so times in over 400 fg attempts). The League like it does with ALL safety related infractions, whether or not the call is made in a game - Like in the Pats / NO game,,,  fine the player or the team after the fact. The ideas is SAFETY. Right????

    BECAUSE shouldn't the league be more concerned with  "preventing" unsafe play before it happens? No, instead they send out a private notice to game officials only to start making the call. With only a few coaches who knew it, and they chose instead to get in bed with one coach to get a call by "gotcha rules".

    And we shouldn't mention that this ref is from NY, right?

    This game should be known as the
         
    Referee and Ryan Gift Game One
              
    or for short 
             
               the RRG1 Game-

    I think that is final. lets move on

     

     


     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you haven't called the penalty all year, if you didn't call it earlier in the game when the Jests did the same thing, than you certainly don't call it in the waning seconds to decide the game just so Vegas can cover the spread.  

    I moved on the very next day but some threads keep dragging me back to it...

    [/QUOTE]


    Very flawed logic.  Be happy you got away with it at a crucial moment in the Saints game.  It is at those moments that the rules need to be enforced.  This let them play mentality is sophomoric.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree, a rule is the rule.. but, a 15 yard penalty especially when such a play is of no real advantage to the team committing the infraction.  Like an illegal chuck beyond the 5 yard line against a receiver.  You can chuck a guy awfully hard and it is still 5 yards.  Go figure.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think that play can be described as a no real advantage.  A deep rush on a long kick with a lower trajectory can easily be affected.  However, that is not the issue, safety is.  That dweep on the Pats treated the guy in front of him like a practice sled.  It was textbook illegal for the exact reasons that the rule was implemented. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Let's end this

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Well since you want to keep bringing it up

    You could see Rex's face and motions on the field that he knew it was called. He didn't want to give the ball back to Brady and he made an unwise football decision that he was pretty sure probably would not be successful.
    He made a bet that it would be called

    You could tell in his game presser that he was sure it was just a good break and he was so happy they finally got one ( forgetting TB of course)
    You could tell he didn't want to talk about what he had done with the Refs pre-game

    You could tell that when the NY media wasn't giving the full credit to him and the Jets for winning he couldn't stand it. And that is why as a great coach he does what great coaches do and looks at eveyy game tape , implying he never got a tip off from his Bro. Which we know he did.

    And you could tell that he knew he "still" wasn't getting credit for the win, when BB said the jets did it too (and yes there is a push - I would never call in a game tying situation either, and for legal beagles - a push is a push, the rule does not differentiate). And Ryan claimed again that he "earned" the win and that was that now lets move on-

    Wasn't what was really earned was a 27-27 tie? Saying someone did or did not out play sameone is superfluous. What a team earns is the score that is.

    What Rex earned is that he is a little petulant child who will do anything to save his job. He knows it, but will he will delude himself just like his whole family feels entitled to thinking that they are the best of everything.

    There are tons of calls not made and Refs as a common sense rule swallow the whistle in times like OT, except for blatant calls that effect a play

    I don't doubt it was a penalty. But along with the NY Media, M Francessa, Steven A etc,  I believe that it shouldn't have been called for: the first time in NFL history, in an OT game, In a divisional game with playoff ramifactions for both the AFC East and the AFC in total

    And how should the League really have handled it you ask?

    When they knew before the weekend games that the penalty was not being called by anyone (20 or so times in over 400 fg attempts). The League like it does with ALL safety related infractions, whether or not the call is made in a game - Like in the Pats / NO game,,,  fine the player or the team after the fact. The ideas is SAFETY. Right????

    BECAUSE shouldn't the league be more concerned with  "preventing" unsafe play before it happens? No, instead they send out a private notice to game officials only to start making the call. With only a few coaches who knew it, and they chose instead to get in bed with one coach to get a call by "gotcha rules".

    And we shouldn't mention that this ref is from NY, right?

    This game should be known as the
         
    Referee and Ryan Gift Game One
              
    or for short 
             
               the RRG1 Game-

    I think that is final. lets move on

     

     


     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    It was not the first time it was ever called. 

     
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