Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    about each player and their ability to help the defense going forward.

    I look at this board and its a bit divided.  One angle is Billicheck is doing just a fine job as GM and his drafts are a crapshoot like everyone else and we are just a victim of bad luck in the draft , etc

    Then you have those who dare challenge the coach and say he is overwhelmed and not doing a good job drafting and getting players in free agency.

    I am somewhere in between but do have gripes about recent free agent signings and curious draft decisons.

    Look, I get you cant hit on every player, but arent you curious as to why EVERY year we pick players that most people never heard of?  Guys that NOBODY else would draft but Bill does cuz he has a soft spot for small school guys w/ a story or that he has to bring in a NAVY guy every year and a "RUDY" type (woodhead)

    Price was on noones radar and certainly not on Bradys target list yet.

    Cunningham would have been available in the 4th rd.

    You made Woodhead a major part of this offense and now he is a special teamer.
    You drafted 2 talented backs but play neither one.
    You payed chad Johnson 6 million to ride the bench, but had Tate or Price worked out, do you really have to waste that 6 million?

    Rob Ninkovich, Awww, my favorite. The guy I labeled a poor mans Vrabel. I liked what he did last year as a role player, but didnt think he was great and guess what he got resigned and this year has played 90% of snaps and made ZERO plays on defense. Just on the field for nothing.

    You plucked this Josh Barret guy from Denver who had done nothing and slipped to the 7th rd after having a good combine, but you rely on him to be a starter after cutting Sanders and Meriweather??  Josh hasnt been seen much lately

    Bodden after having 5 INT's on a c rappy 09' defense looked like the answer, but I never bought it, I knew he would be a one hit wonder and now he is gone after fleecing the pats for 2 years pay w/no performance.

    TBC got resigned after leading the team in sacks which wasnt hard to do and then released.

    Crable was brought back last year after being cut 3 times and then shown the door again(3rd rd pick)

    Burgess was thought to be the answer, gave a pick for him, he gone! 

    A.D. was a Mess!!  How did he go to beloved pro bowl friend of Bill, prized free agent to being a mockery and out the league??

    Wilhite, Wheatley...Gone!

    Edleman keeps getting worse every year. I warned you guys about him last year when I said he partied too much and even posted a pic of him on a party bus w/chics I know and you guys said "he is the emergency qb, he aint going nowhere" LMAO, do you still believe this hump would ever be trusted to qb this team?!?

    Most players are either regressing(Cunningham) or playing worse due to system change (mayo, nink?) and B.B. keeps making stunning cuts while he resigns guys who cant play but work hard?!

    Besides Wilfork , Chung, Mayo and to a lesser extent, Spikes, McCourty, ..who else is worth retaining as a young talent?

    This merry go round has gotten me dizzy and annoyed, and if anyone can look at the above mess and say this is a work of a genius G.M. , then please prove it , and not by talking about past SB's either.

    Besides Vrabel, Patten, Compton, Harrison,Dillon etc from 01-03, his free agent signing have been busts as of late and his drafts are very peculiar and not productive...

    In Bill I trust, but I dont like the trends or patterns as of late.

    Let me spare some the time for rebuttals like "but we are competitive every year"

    yeah, thats because of Brady.  Brady allows us to win some games, but as soon the competition kick up, we are done!  Brady masked a lot of things, and the fact that Cassell went 11-5, just proves that we could win w/Hoyer, Mallet and use Brady's moeny for defense , BLASPHEMY!!!  I know, but keep fooling yourselves w/SB dreams w/this defense.

    If Brady was used as if he was a Hoyer maybe we could win some big games, but as long as they think Brady is GOD is make him chuck it up against great teams, we will lose!  Hoyer was in at times and the offense ran smooth, not because Hoyer is Brady, but because they played to his strengths or lack their of by utitizing play action and not getting him killed. Brady needs to play like he did before and stop trying to be a world beater/on man show.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    Jesus you are a whiney little baby.

    You make it sound so easy, but there are so many factors that go into picking a player and having them be sucsessful. They need to fit into a system in order to be great, and they need to have great players around them.

    Look at aaron maybin this year, he was a first round pick with the bills, Washed out of their system so the bills cut him and the jets picked him up, hes got three sacks this year. know how many sacks he had in 2 years with the bills? Zero.

    Look at hurt warner, his career was a roller coaster, AFL cant even make it in the NFL, then he gets a chance with the rams OMG BEST QB EVER, then the rams cut him for bulger and warner goes to the giants to backup eli manning, then to the cardnals to backup leinhart then he starts again and OMG BEST QB EVER!!!

    You say no other teams would draft the players bill drafted, how do you know? Maybe bill drafted them right before another team was about too. 

    OMG we didnt draft CLAY matthews!! RAGE he should be a patriot. any number of players who were 1st round draft busts. Look at teams like the raiders, and the broncos, and st luis. Teams that have been consistently shitty teams for a little bit, every year they have a chance at the best players and they dont take them.

    TL:DR stop complaining about our poor drafting, our team is very young and its only going to get younger. we are 5-2 not 0-8
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    Good post.

    When a team plays soft and has a weak defense for 4 straight seasons - there is a problem.

    Last year's draft addressed NONE of the glaring defensive problems.  By the way, next year's draft?  He will trade down and address NONE of the glaring defensive problems.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    I think there is a point where Bill's ego has gotten to big for his own good.

    In the SB years BB was the man but he had coaches and a GM that wouldn't be afraid to talk to him and tell him something just won't work. Now he has these young hand picked staffs and not a single one of them will challenge anything he wants to do. Unfortunately it hasn't worked to BB's advantage and he might be over stretched. This isn't saying I want BB gone because I think he is the best coach in the league but I want a couple of staffers who will stand up to him and I also want a pure GM who will help make personal decisions. This should take some duties away from BB but might make him more effective
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    Eng, I think thats a start, but who tells Bill this and we can do that in time to still salvage the "Brady Years"

    I love him as a coach and I like the way he coaches for the most part, and thats what is frustrating. if it was anyone else, I would be ok, but to be labeled the best and have the best qb and get these results is unnaceptable.

    If you think about it...Bill really did win w/Parcells grocery list on defense and w/Brady and Cassel being picked in the 6th and 7th rounds respectively, you have to think he is more of an offensive genius.  Besides bringing in Rodney Harrison which was a no-brainer in 03 and having one of the best years in free agency in 01' w/Vrabes, Patten, Compton, Stevens,. Pleasant, etc

    What has he done to improve our defense in free agency?

    He Landed us Seymour and Warren who certainly played their parts and helped, but after the Dynasty he has struggled to create his own identity and defensive team w/his stamp. He is all over the place now, scrambling and making moves noone understands.

    If you think about in regards to Bill P and Bill B, the only constance is Romeo Crennel, not Weiss, B.B. or Parcells.

    Parcells and Bill have won nothing w/out Crennel at their side.

    K.C. started off rough but they are playing now and getting a lot out of # 24.

    I wanted us to draft him badly...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ChasaB. Show ChasaB's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    In Response to Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..:
    [QUOTE]Exaclty, do you think Bill is sitting here and saying . Yeah we have a great team, or is he in his office pulling his hair out trying to stop the bleeding and crying "WHY ME??" I think we know... This is what I mean,  Bill expects more of himself as well, and if he could slap himself , he would. Bill knows how to coach, but I feel he knows the players he has arent gonna cut it, why else is he droppin guys left and right on a team w/ no depth?!? Riddle me please...lol
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    I think bill is saying to himself

    "Well McCourty is having a rough year, i was hoping he would be more of a shutdown corner, hopefully just a sophmore slump. 
    Albert is slowly picking up speed, if he keeps getting healthier, and in better shape he and vince will be killing it. 
    Jesus i wish bodden hadn't been such a little baby and asking to be let go, sure he was our 4th best cb but still. 
    Mayo is back from injury, he looked a little slow but he should be fine.
    Ras, kid is made out of glass, maybe i should have tried to reach for a different CB. 
    That kid Arrington has been doing much better, did you know he was leading the league in interceptions before this week? kids got some skills just needs to get on the field more. 
    Big Vince was telling me that the refs probably would have let the stealers use lassos in the game with the way they refused the throw flags.

    What we need to do i think this week in the video room is talk about how we are 30th in defense penalties. gosh we need to stop getting called for defense penalties, and also we need to start stopping people on third down also 30th."

    Of course then you barge in

    JayShizzle45: Coach, listen bro, you suck at everything. heres the new plan, trade brady to minnesota for jared allen and a 1st rd pick, then trade 2 of those first rnders we have for clay mathews, and then trade hoyer to indy for peyton manning straight up, then trade our last 1st rounder to the jets for Revis.

    Coach B: yeah thats not how the real world works.

    JayShizzle45: shut up we are 5-2 and clearly you have no idea how to coach a football team anymore, were going to lose the next 9 games to finish 7-9 and its all bradys contract fault.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    Hey, Jay...  how about joining the Pats, be a player and show them how it is done!!  It is so easy to be a fan and throw the rocks.  I am not saying criticism is undeserved, but, I am going to give the players their due and acknowledge they are trying their best.  Is it a system issue?  Wrong defenses at the wrong time?  For example, where was the D we saw in the late stages of the Steelers game, or for that matter when the other team is in the red zone, for the entire game?  Why so inconsistent?  The offense.. where are their adjustments?  Why not run more often?  Who knows...  they play the game and we "whine"!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    I agree that BB hasn't knocked the ball out of the park in terms of drafting defensive players as of late, but he has been far from terrible (the real issue is that we lost a ton of talent on D over a very short period so decent in the draft was not good enough).  He has done pretty well on o-lineman and offensive skill players and kept us continuously stocked with draft picks so to say he has been a bad GM is a mischaracterization.

    [QUOTE]Cunningham would have been available in the 4th rd [/QUOTE]

    Not true.  Most draft analysts had him going in the 2nd round (3rd at the latest).

    [QUOTE] Brady masked a lot of things, and the fact that Cassell went 11-5, just proves that we could win w/Hoyer, Mallet and use Brady's moeny for defense , BLASPHEMY!!! [/QUOTE]

    Ben Roethlisberger's salary hasn't stopped the Steelers from having a highly ranked defense year in and year out.  The difference between Brady's pay and other vastly inferior quarterbacks is not that large and certainly not enough to remake the defensive roster.  There is no evidence that if we dumped Brady's salary to what the average QB makes we would have some super epic D.

    Cassel started for a team that had just gone 16-0 and had a soft schedule and we have no assurance that Hoyer or Mallet are as good as Cassel.  There is a reason Arizona paid big money for Kolb.  It is a QB driven league so people take risks.




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    We would never know if dumping Brdy would work because the 3 1st rounders we would get may not turn out to be anything..

    i would only do if for current players in their prime.

    Bill should be done messing the draft, IMO
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..


    I don't think Jay is whining at all. He in fact brings up some very valid points on our success drafting and in FA. To say we should feel good about ourselves because we aren't like the Bengals, Raiders, Broncos, etc. is pure crap.

    We have the best coach in the league. He is a defensive genius and master draft manipulator, acquiring picks left and right, and racking up the most amount of 1st-3rd round picks from 2005-2011 than any other team in the league.
    That tells me we should be expecting more from the draft and FA. We consistenly drafted in the sweet spot of the draft, and we should have turned better results. Just from a pure numbers standpoint, if we made 22+ selections over that time period in those rounds, my hope would be that at least 11 of those pan out. That would be 50%. Not saying all would be impact players or even starters, just on the team and making contributions. We can't say this, and this worries me.

    I'm not hitting the panic button. I just want more out of this team, our drafting success, FA success because we have an organization that overall, is better than 90% out there. We should expect more.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    Exaclty, do you think Bill is sitting here and saying . Yeah we have a great team, or is he in his office pulling his hair out trying to stop the bleeding and crying "WHY ME??"

    I think we know...

    This is what I mean,  Bill expects more of himself as well, and if he could slap himself , he would.

    Bill knows how to coach, but I feel he knows the players he has arent gonna cut it, why else is he droppin guys left and right on a team w/ no depth?!?

    Riddle me please...lol
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dbeach48. Show dbeach48's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    coaching needs more flexibilty particularly when the offense is on low ..
     
      whhole teams needs a spark  NOW  and needs to try different strategies

    NYG gonna be pumped  and BB needs to rise to the occassion.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    No need for paragraphs saying the same thing rusty.

    4th and 2 is an example of Bill not trusting the "D", and just because you think we got the spot doesnt change the reason why we went for it does it?

    It also doesnt excuse running a 2 yard route on 4th and 2 with Peyton waiting to come on and end the game w/one pass..

    2 years later he still doesnt trust the defense and thats telling.

    I dont care that you dont like my adjectives and they are my own. Can you please stop referencing Mazz and Gasper as I dont read them, I form my own opinion.

    The fact is, i dont know if we will get better, but it is possible, but What I WAS saying is that on Sunday coming out the bye week, knowing The Steelers have been a passing team since Ben arrived, our DEFENSE looked like HOT GARBAGE!  Leave the offense out for a moment and answer the question.  Did the defense look like Hot Garbage or Not??

    Ok, Ben throws a ball right to Guyton, and he caught it! Wow, what a play. I can name the other 3 as well.  Spikes breaking up a pass and dancing, and late in the game Chung knocking down a pass in the endzone, and S.Brown late in the game, faking a blitz and then falling back in the passing lane for the slant, making Ben throw it away.  There you go!  4 TOTAL plays by the defense after being out there all game. 

    Your turn!
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    Looking at the draft from 2008, Mayo and Slater are still on the team.  That is 2 out of 7 players.  In 2009, Chung, Brace, Vollmer, Pryor and Edelman are on the team.  That is 5 out of 12. In 2010, McCourdy, Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, Price, Hernandez, Mesco, deadrick and Welch are still on the team.  That is 9 out of 12.  Some of which are or will be pro bowlers.  In 2011, Solder, Dowling (IR), Vereen, Ridley, Mallett, and Cannon are still all on the team.  That is 6 out of 9.  So in 4 years of drafting they have added 22 players from the draft.  How many other teams can say that?  The 2011 draft should have an asterik next to it becouse these players did not have proper training coming in.  I think this shows that BB learned from his bad drafts an is doing better.  2010 was a great draft!!!  2011 is still and unknown.  The biggest problem is that they are not getting consistent production from these young players.  Free agency is a crapshoot becouse if a player was that good a team would try resigning them. Trades do not seem like the way to go as the last few have not worked. Chad will never be a good receiver. Big Al will help this year but be gone next year. The Patriots have the offensive side of the ball well stocked but need to work on the defense. It all starts in the trenches and the DL needs talent.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    In Response to Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..:
    [QUOTE]I think there is a point where Bill's ego has gotten to big for his own good. In the SB years BB was the man but he had coaches and a GM that wouldn't be afraid to talk to him and tell him something just won't work. Now he has these young hand picked staffs and not a single one of them will challenge anything he wants to do. Unfortunately it hasn't worked to BB's advantage and he might be over stretched. This isn't saying I want BB gone because I think he is the best coach in the league but I want a couple of staffers who will stand up to him and I also want a pure GM who will help make personal decisions. This should take some duties away from BB but might make him more effective
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    What you say is very sensible.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    In Response to Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..:
    [QUOTE]Eng, I think thats a start, but who tells Bill this and we can do that in time to still salvage the "Brady Years" I love him as a coach and I like the way he coaches for the most part, and thats what is frustrating. if it was anyone else, I would be ok, but to be labeled the best and have the best qb and get these results is unnaceptable. If you think about it...Bill really did win w/Parcells grocery list on defense and w/Brady and Cassel being picked in the 6th and 7th rounds respectively, you have to think he is more of an offensive genius.  Besides bringing in Rodney Harrison which was a no-brainer in 03 and having one of the best years in free agency in 01' w/Vrabes, Patten, Compton, Stevens,. Pleasant, etc What has he done to improve our defense in free agency? He Landed us Seymour and Warren who certainly played their parts and helped, but after the Dynasty he has struggled to create his own identity and defensive team w/his stamp. He is all over the place now, scrambling and making moves noone understands. If you think about in regards to Bill P and Bill B, the only constance is Romeo Crennel, not Weiss, B.B. or Parcells. Parcells and Bill have won nothing w/out Crennel at their side. K.C. started off rough but they are playing now and getting a lot out of # 24. I wanted us to draft him badly...
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    At this point it is unlikely we will salvage the Brady years. That would likely take immediate and drastic change and a good amount of luck.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from stewart7557. Show stewart7557's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    Jay -

    I agree with a lot of what you say. I think BB is a tremendous head coach and he runs a highly disciplined program that he adheres to consistently. However, his personnel selection has been pretty flawed. Both in the draft and free agency - this team has missed too many times.

    The current defensive backfield is weak with only Chung and McCourty as NFL Calibre starters. Arrington should be a nickel or dime corner -- not a starter. The rest of them are waver wire players.

    Ras Dowling may have potential but so far - he cant stay on the field.

    I'm a big fan here but I seriously think BB needs some better guidance in player selection.

    Peace !!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wildwillis. Show Wildwillis's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    Jay - I am with you bro, I said it yesterday. The Pats need the Janes and Joes to make it work. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from patthepatriot666. Show patthepatriot666's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    JV
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..

    In Response to Re: Look at our Roster and tell me what you think..:
    [QUOTE]Looking at the draft from 2008, Mayo and Slater are still on the team.  That is 2 out of 7 players.  In 2009, Chung, Brace, Vollmer, Pryor and Edelman are on the team.  That is 5 out of 12. In 2010, McCourdy, Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, Price, Hernandez, Mesco, deadrick and Welch are still on the team.  That is 9 out of 12.  Some of which are or will be pro bowlers.  In 2011, Solder, Dowling (IR), Vereen, Ridley, Mallett, and Cannon are still all on the team.  That is 6 out of 9.  So in 4 years of drafting they have added 22 players from the draft.  How many other teams can say that?  The 2011 draft should have an asterik next to it becouse these players did not have proper training coming in.  I think this shows that BB learned from his bad drafts an is doing better.  2010 was a great draft!!!  2011 is still and unknown.  The biggest problem is that they are not getting consistent production from these young players.  Free agency is a crapshoot becouse if a player was that good a team would try resigning them. Trades do not seem like the way to go as the last few have not worked. Chad will never be a good receiver. Big Al will help this year but be gone next year. The Patriots have the offensive side of the ball well stocked but need to work on the defense. It all starts in the trenches and the DL needs talent.
    Posted by msteven[/QUOTE]

    Now that's a curious statement...

    McCourty - excellent 1st year (probowl as a rookie), but having serious sophomore slump/regression in year two.

    Gronkowski - excellent choice; many probowls ahead for this young man.

    Cunningham - played about half of the defensive snaps in his rookie year (not particularly well), and has played about 10 snaps this year. Heading toward bust territory quickly.

    Spikes - may turn out to be an average two-down backer, but god help you in pass coverage. My mother closes faster than him and she's 87.

    Price - what exactly has he contributed?

    Hernandez - excellent choice, especially for the 4th round. Probably the 2nd best WR on the team at this point even though he's a TE

    Mesko - decent punter, but does a punter not named Ray Guy ever make a draft good?

    Deaderick & Welch  - JAGs, i.e. roster filler.

    Let's be honest here. I don't think we're at any place yet to be declaring 2010 a "great draft." But better than most of BB's efforts as a GM.
     
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