Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

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    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    Just started to look at the coaches film from the third quarter, which is when even Mankins said the line was at its worst. 

    I've had time only to look at five plays so far, but already, I've seen Wendell whiff completely on a play that led to an easy sack.  On the Brady interception, Solder is being driven into Brady by the rusher, so Brady has to release the ball maybe a second too early.  He's hit in the head by the rusher's fist right as he releases the ball.  I don't think the hit was hard enough to throw his pass off, but he was more hurried than I remember. 

    I'll keep watching, but so far the line doesn't look impressive on those first few plays, and Wendell in particular looks like a liability.

     

     

     
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    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    Some numbers for you guys to mull over (make of them what you will):

    2012 1st 7 games
    1.  1 sacks 4 hits  35 rush  32 pass  win by 21 (34 pts) drives 10
    2.  4 sacks 6 hits  28 rush  50 pass  lose by 2 (18 pts)             14
    3.  2 sacks 6 hits  34 rush  43 pass  lose by 1 (30 pts)             11
    4.  1 sacks 3 hits  40 rush  37 pass  win by 24 (52 pts)            16
    5.  4 sacks 5 hits  51 rush  34 pass  win by 10 (31 pts)            11
    6.  1 sacks 5 hits  26 rush  59 pass  lose by 1 (23 pts)             12
    7.  1 sacks 2 hits  31 rush  43 pass  win by 3 (29 pts)              11

    298 pass plays (includes plays where sacked).  Sacked or hit every 6.6 pass plays


    2013 1st 7 games
    1.  3 sacks  9 hits  34 rush  55 pass  win by 2 (23 pts) drives 15
    2.  1 sacks  1 hits  24 rush  40 pass  win by 3 (13 pts)            16
    3.  3 sacks  6 hits  33 rush  39 pass  win by 20 (23 pts)          12
    4.  0 sacks  2 hits  31 rush  31 pass  win by 7 (30 pts)            11
    5.  4 sacks  8 hits  18 rush  42 pass  lose by 7 (6 pts)             12
    6.  5 sacks  8 hits  35 rush  48 pass  win by 3 (30 pts)            14
    7.  4 sacks  3 hits  20 rush  50 pass  lose by 3 (27 pts)           13

    305 pass plays (includes plays where sacked).  Sacked or hit every 5.4 pass plays

    Not certain what to make of this, but a couple things I see here:

    Brady has been sacked 13 times and hit 19 times in the last three games.  That comes out to almost once every possession.  I doubt he can last the season if that continues.

    Over the first 7 games in 2012, the three highest point totals the Pats posted (52, 34, 31) were all games where they rushed more than they passed.  Over the first 7 games in 2013, the Pats have not once rushed more than passed--one game the attempts were even, and in that one game, the Pats tied for their highest point total so far this year.

     
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    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    One of the challenges the Pats offense is facing this year is without experienced receivers (and particularly without Welker) it's harder for Brady to release the ball fast.  This requires the O line to really step up its play.  I've argued in the past that the Pats O line looked better than it really was because of Brady's quick decision making.  In retrospect, I'd add that receivers like Welker had a lot to do with it because they were smart and reliably in the right place and making the correct route adjustments based on what the defense was doing.  Now Brady can't be quite so sure he's got the right guys in the right places, so he has to wait a bit lomger to ensure they are doing what he expects.  This means the O line has to hold blocks longer.  So everything is interrelated.  

    This will be a really unpopular statement, but less shotgun could also be an issue.  Shotgun passes are fast developing because the QB doesn't have to drop back and has a good view of the field.  I think it was RallyC last year who, while criticizing the Pats' heavy use of the shotgun, also made the comment that part of the reason they were using it so much is because Brady is not particularly  fast on his drop backs (and may be getting even slower with age).  I can't say I've really analyzed Brady's dropbacks, but RallyC may have had a good point.

    Anyway, football is a complex game and very much a team game where all the parts affect all the other parts.  What we may be seeing is how the loss of experienced, healthy receivers is having a domino effect on the rest of the offense.  Put in that perspective the loss of Welker may be far more significant than we've thought.  If Hern and Gronk were both available, that loss wouldn't hurt as much, but without the two TEs, not having Welker really has had a ripple effect on the rest of the offense. 

     
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    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    Hard to argue that analysis

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled


    Brady in the shot gun passing to Welker, Amendola or even Edelman is a running play for the Pats..

    In seasons past where Connolly and Wendell were above average was when they were pulling out ahead of the runner. They are not getting the chance to run those types of C or G pulling with out Vareen or Woody in the backfield..

     
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    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just started to look at the coaches film from the third quarter, which is when even Mankins said the line was at its worst. 

    I've had time only to look at five plays so far, but already, I've seen Wendell whiff completely on a play that led to an easy sack.  On the Brady interception, Solder is being driven into Brady by the rusher, so Brady has to release the ball maybe a second too early.  He's hit in the head by the rusher's fist right as he releases the ball.  I don't think the hit was hard enough to throw his pass off, but he was more hurried than I remember. 

    I'll keep watching, but so far the line doesn't look impressive on those first few plays, and Wendell in particular looks like a liability.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    wasn't that when Mankins popped off at his teammates last game?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

     

    This is another sobering assesment that unfortunately is all too true. Ive watched for 2 years while this Cannon guy has been overhyped on this board and everytime I see him play Im unimpressed. I gave him a pass with the cancer thing, but this year he was supposed to step up. He is the one that allowed a free rusher and didnt block ANYONE! Thats IN exusable, sorry.

    He looks like a nother jag/bum. Not that bad cuz he was a 5th rounder, but I fail to see how he was a 1st round talent like most said here. I just dont see it. I think his biggest issues are upstairs. He doesnt seem that bright and is too slow to react out there. FAIL

    Solder is still a stud but some of his lapses has come when he has helped logan?? Why does an 8 million guard need help again? If he just focuses on HIS job he will be fine I believe but the others slacking is causing the whole thing to look bad, IMO

    Wendell?? Yea he has been very bad. One play I saw, the guy just gave him a Reggie White Club and went around him. Those plays bring instant pressure and end any chance at a positive play and usually are drive killers. Def. need an upgrade there.

    Ive havent noticed Connolly as much as he has been in and out but sounds like we need an upgrade there too.

    Vollmer, we all know is a stud when he is healthy but he is likely playing hurt and may wear down later. I told people as good as he was I dont see a big extension because of his back. This was before last year started. Now they may have to pay him cuz the rest are average.

    Strong Safety. I give up. I am truly worn out with the safety talk. Just get it right next year, please.

    D.Tackle - Must of us have expressed concern here and with the Wilfork injury it may be finally time to dip back into the 1st round for a stud if he is there. Im not sure how I feel about the new guys. Vellano and Jones. They seem to be in the mold of upfield guys who penetrate gaps and theyve shown the ability but they get pushed around too much in the run game. What type of defense is BB going for?? I dont know...Just get it done!

     

    Tight End! Sad its on the list....Nuff said. No replacement for AH yet. All the backup plans failed. Bad planning agian. Looks like we need to draft another high pick there?  Wow, I would go free agent route

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from viewer222. Show viewer222's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Translation, the problem ain't TB

     

    NEPD Editor: Matthew Jones

    With the New England Patriots in the midst of what has been a decidedly underwhelming 2013 campaign preceded by a series of offseason losses and marred by poor offensive execution and a litany of defensive injuries, it’s time to take a look at some of the team’s biggest weaknesses and what options New England’s front office may have once the offseason begins.

     

    CENTER:

    The marked decline of center Ryan Wendell, who submitted an impressive 2012 season but has been exposed repeatedly in 2013 has been among the most disconcerting aspects of New England’s offensive performance this season. Wendell is set to become a free agent following the season, so upgrading at the position by bringing in a more sound pass protector, ideally with the type of size to anchor against the AFC East’s oversized defensive linemen, seems like a logical move, and one which Bill Belichick and New England’s war room have reportedly considered on a number of recent occasions, including in the first round of recent drafts (Eric Wood, Maurkice and Mike Pouncey.)

    Unfortunately, the options available to the Patriots this offseason in both free agency and the NFL Draft relative to recent years are comparatively underwhelming, preventing the team from using their initial pick on a center. While the door should be left open for a potential second-or-third-day pick such as Arkansas standout Travis Swanson, who will enter the draft as a four-year starter and team captain with impressive size, this is a position which the Patriots may desire an improvement at more than they can realistically obtain one.

    OFFENSIVE GUARD:

    The team’s current starter at right guard, Dan Connolly, continues to regress and thus far has allowed two sacks and fourteen pressures, according to ProFootballFocus; it is becoming increasingly apparent that Connolly is being significantly overcompensated, so it should come as no surprise if he is released during the offseason. Prior to the season, it appeared as though former fifth-round pick Marcus Cannon was a candidate to succeed Connolly at the position, but he has seen the field for 148 snaps so far in 2013 and remains unconvincing.

    Should the coaching staff decide that it’s time to move on, this is a position which could very well be targeted with an early pick in April’s draft, especially given the collection of offensive guards who could receive first-round consideration, a list which includes the likes of Baylor’s Cyril Richardson, Mississippi State’s Gabe Jackson, and Stanford’s David Yankey, all players with the size and bulk to hold up against the oversized defensive tackles which have given the Patriots problems in recent years. It’s also possible that the team will target an offensive tackle for a potential conversion to guard, as they did back in 2005 by drafting Fresno State left tackle Logan Mankins; Notre Dame left tackle Zack Martin may fit the bill.

    DEFENSIVE TACKLE:

    Free-agent signing Tommy Kelly has outperformed most expectations this season, but he sutained a knee injury not long after Vince Wilfork tore his right Achilles, with the absences of both players highlighting New England’s complete lack of depth at the position, which is currently being manned by starters Joe Vellano and Chris Jones, a pair of rookies who have thus far struggled to meet Bill Belichick’s high standards for run defense. Kelly turns 33 in December, with Wilfork turning 32 a month before him, meaning the Patriots shouldn’t get complacent merely because their top two options will return next season; instead, it’s time to consider the long-term future at the position by drafting players who could realistically develop into effective starters.

    Recent free agent signing Armond Armstead was viewed as a second-or-third-round talent based on his time in the Canadian Football League, but has spent the entire season on the Non-Football Injury list, obscuring his future prospects. It’s entirely possible that the team views him as one of their future starters, but at the least, a long-term replacement at nose tackle with the ability to two-gap would be ideal; in this year’s draft, possible fits include Minnesota’s Ra’Shede Hageman and Penn State’s DaQuan Jones. Keep in mind that Wilfork himself was drafted one year before he became the team’s primary starter.

    STRONG SAFETY:

    New England’s long-term future at strong safety is far from determined, as the team has used two high draft picks in recent years on the position, selecting Illinois’ Tavon Wilson in the second round of the 2012 NFL Draft and opting for Rutgers’ Duron Harmon in the third round this past April. Both players were presumably seen as potential successors to incumbent Steve Gregory, who has revealed himself to be a consistently average starter with no major deficiencies but no major strengths, either. Adrian Wilson was also signed this past offseason, but struggled in preseason and eventually landed on injured reserve, the trajectory of his tenure with the organization resembling John Lynch’s much more than Rodney Harrison’s.

    It’s possible that a player such as Harmon could eventually step into the starting lineup, but this is also a position which is difficult to conclusively categorize as having been sufficiently addressed. However, the draft’s shallow safety class may force the Patriots to wait another year for a shot at a top prospect, as Alabama’s Ha’Sean Clinton-Dix is the only safety expected to be drafted in the first round. Later in the draft, Florida State’s Lamarcus Joyner may be able to provide the Patriots with a versatile defensive option who doubles as an effective return man, something the team has lacked for years. New England’s front office may also prefer giving the starting role to a veteran if they feel confident in Harmon’s long-term viability but do not want to give him the starting role so soon.

    TIGHT END:

    New England’s passing offense thrived in recent years thanks in large part to the team’s pair of tight end options, inline “Y” tight end Rob Gronkowski and flex “F” tight end Aaron Hernandez. With Hernandez now facing a charge of murder in the death of Odin Lloyd, the Patriots have an opening for an “F” tight end in their lineup which no player thus far has been able to fill. Over 396 offensive snaps, Michael Hoomanawanui has been the team’s most visible tight end, but he lacks the athleticism to truly challenge defenses in the passing game. Undrafted free agent Zach Sudfeld didn’t work out, so this is an area where New England could add an additional player for a role which is effectively devoid of any realistic solutions.

    However, the team’s approach also appears to have shifted to one which emphasizes more three-receiver sets, allowing the team to run formations featuring some combination of Danny Amendola, Julian Edelman, Aaron Dobson, and Kenbrell Thompkins, so it’s possible that the importance of this position has diminished as a result of the personnel overhaul which occurred last offseason. This year’s draft class is populated with more inline options, so the Patriots’ 2013 offensive philosophy may carry over into 2014 as well. There appears to be no chance that North Carolina junior Eric Ebron will last until New England’s pick, and Colt Lyerla, another superficially appealing option, recently left the team and was arrested for cocaine possession.

    [/QUOTE]
    Your critique basically says that McDaniels sucks at his job

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to viewer222's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Translation, the problem ain't TB

     

    NEPD Editor: Matthew Jones

    With the New England Patriots in the midst of what has been a decidedly underwhelming 2013 campaign preceded by a series of offseason losses and marred by poor offensive execution and a litany of defensive injuries, it’s time to take a look at some of the team’s biggest weaknesses and what options New England’s front office may have once the offseason begins.

     

    CENTER:

    The marked decline of center Ryan Wendell, who submitted an impressive 2012 season but has been exposed repeatedly in 2013 has been among the most disconcerting aspects of New England’s offensive performance this season. Wendell is set to become a free agent following the season, so upgrading at the position by bringing in a more sound pass protector, ideally with the type of size to anchor against the AFC East’s oversized defensive linemen, seems like a logical move, and one which Bill Belichick and New England’s war room have reportedly considered on a number of recent occasions, including in the first round of recent drafts (Eric Wood, Maurkice and Mike Pouncey.)

    Unfortunately, the options available to the Patriots this offseason in both free agency and the NFL Draft relative to recent years are comparatively underwhelming, preventing the team from using their initial pick on a center. While the door should be left open for a potential second-or-third-day pick such as Arkansas standout Travis Swanson, who will enter the draft as a four-year starter and team captain with impressive size, this is a position which the Patriots may desire an improvement at more than they can realistically obtain one.

    OFFENSIVE GUARD:

    The team’s current starter at right guard, Dan Connolly, continues to regress and thus far has allowed two sacks and fourteen pressures, according to ProFootballFocus; it is becoming increasingly apparent that Connolly is being significantly overcompensated, so it should come as no surprise if he is released during the offseason. Prior to the season, it appeared as though former fifth-round pick Marcus Cannon was a candidate to succeed Connolly at the position, but he has seen the field for 148 snaps so far in 2013 and remains unconvincing.

    Should the coaching staff decide that it’s time to move on, this is a position which could very well be targeted with an early pick in April’s draft, especially given the collection of offensive guards who could receive first-round consideration, a list which includes the likes of Baylor’s Cyril Richardson, Mississippi State’s Gabe Jackson, and Stanford’s David Yankey, all players with the size and bulk to hold up against the oversized defensive tackles which have given the Patriots problems in recent years. It’s also possible that the team will target an offensive tackle for a potential conversion to guard, as they did back in 2005 by drafting Fresno State left tackle Logan Mankins; Notre Dame left tackle Zack Martin may fit the bill.

    DEFENSIVE TACKLE:

    Free-agent signing Tommy Kelly has outperformed most expectations this season, but he sutained a knee injury not long after Vince Wilfork tore his right Achilles, with the absences of both players highlighting New England’s complete lack of depth at the position, which is currently being manned by starters Joe Vellano and Chris Jones, a pair of rookies who have thus far struggled to meet Bill Belichick’s high standards for run defense. Kelly turns 33 in December, with Wilfork turning 32 a month before him, meaning the Patriots shouldn’t get complacent merely because their top two options will return next season; instead, it’s time to consider the long-term future at the position by drafting players who could realistically develop into effective starters.

    Recent free agent signing Armond Armstead was viewed as a second-or-third-round talent based on his time in the Canadian Football League, but has spent the entire season on the Non-Football Injury list, obscuring his future prospects. It’s entirely possible that the team views him as one of their future starters, but at the least, a long-term replacement at nose tackle with the ability to two-gap would be ideal; in this year’s draft, possible fits include Minnesota’s Ra’Shede Hageman and Penn State’s DaQuan Jones. Keep in mind that Wilfork himself was drafted one year before he became the team’s primary starter.

    STRONG SAFETY:

    New England’s long-term future at strong safety is far from determined, as the team has used two high draft picks in recent years on the position, selecting Illinois’ Tavon Wilson in the second round of the 2012 NFL Draft and opting for Rutgers’ Duron Harmon in the third round this past April. Both players were presumably seen as potential successors to incumbent Steve Gregory, who has revealed himself to be a consistently average starter with no major deficiencies but no major strengths, either. Adrian Wilson was also signed this past offseason, but struggled in preseason and eventually landed on injured reserve, the trajectory of his tenure with the organization resembling John Lynch’s much more than Rodney Harrison’s.

    It’s possible that a player such as Harmon could eventually step into the starting lineup, but this is also a position which is difficult to conclusively categorize as having been sufficiently addressed. However, the draft’s shallow safety class may force the Patriots to wait another year for a shot at a top prospect, as Alabama’s Ha’Sean Clinton-Dix is the only safety expected to be drafted in the first round. Later in the draft, Florida State’s Lamarcus Joyner may be able to provide the Patriots with a versatile defensive option who doubles as an effective return man, something the team has lacked for years. New England’s front office may also prefer giving the starting role to a veteran if they feel confident in Harmon’s long-term viability but do not want to give him the starting role so soon.

    TIGHT END:

    New England’s passing offense thrived in recent years thanks in large part to the team’s pair of tight end options, inline “Y” tight end Rob Gronkowski and flex “F” tight end Aaron Hernandez. With Hernandez now facing a charge of murder in the death of Odin Lloyd, the Patriots have an opening for an “F” tight end in their lineup which no player thus far has been able to fill. Over 396 offensive snaps, Michael Hoomanawanui has been the team’s most visible tight end, but he lacks the athleticism to truly challenge defenses in the passing game. Undrafted free agent Zach Sudfeld didn’t work out, so this is an area where New England could add an additional player for a role which is effectively devoid of any realistic solutions.

    However, the team’s approach also appears to have shifted to one which emphasizes more three-receiver sets, allowing the team to run formations featuring some combination of Danny Amendola, Julian Edelman, Aaron Dobson, and Kenbrell Thompkins, so it’s possible that the importance of this position has diminished as a result of the personnel overhaul which occurred last offseason. This year’s draft class is populated with more inline options, so the Patriots’ 2013 offensive philosophy may carry over into 2014 as well. There appears to be no chance that North Carolina junior Eric Ebron will last until New England’s pick, and Colt Lyerla, another superficially appealing option, recently left the team and was arrested for cocaine possession.

    [/QUOTE]
    Your critique basically says that McDaniels sucks at his job

    [/QUOTE]

    first, it is not my critique, it is Mathew Jones of NEPD

    I would also say that the issue is with coach Scar and the GM...

    Dont discount the lack of depth on the OL...and the fact that Thomas is no longer here for that depth is pretty big...Cannon ad Svitek are a pretty big drop off...may be due to injury, but still a pretty big drop off.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    Your critique basically says that McDaniels sucks at his job

     

    Well, unfortunately, McD has to adjust to his "all world" receivers limitations, too.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One of the challenges the Pats offense is facing this year is without experienced receivers (and particularly without Welker) it's harder for Brady to release the ball fast.  This requires the O line to really step up its play.  I've argued in the past that the Pats O line looked better than it really was because of Brady's quick decision making.

    This will be a really unpopular statement, but less shotgun could also be an issue.  Shotgun passes are fast developing because the QB doesn't have to drop back and has a good view of the field.  I think it was RallyC last year who, while criticizing the Pats' heavy use of the shotgun, also made the comment that part of the reason they were using it so much is because Brady is not particularly  fast on his drop backs

     

    Def. some merit to those Pro. No Doubt. Wes was always open quick cuz he ran 5 yard routes. People wanted a deep threat and these new guys while fast are not making Brdys job easier with slow developing deep routes. Those work off Playaction....When you have been running it. Weve started 2 games this year with playaction on 1st play.. The Drew to Glenn if you will. It doesnt work all the time..and Brady doesnt have reliable checkdowns he trusts so Play over!

    In terms of shotgun,. yes on 7 step drops, you  lose a couple seconds while the slow footed Brady drops back but it also lets him identify blitzers and see the field before snap. It worked great for years because our D was suspect and we needed to score alot and fast and had the personell for it. Now, not so much and Brady is the one thats look bad because of it. Everything is off now and the only guy can help is Joshy by balancing things up, slow it down and let the D make plays. Its like they still think they have to score 40. Joshy  needs to go. he may call a good game this week but he is always gonna revert back to bad habits. Its proven now

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    first, it is not my critique, it is Mathew Jones of NEPD

    I would also say that the issue is with coach Scar and the GM...

    Dont discount the lack of depth on the OL...and the fact that Thomas is no longer here for that depth is pretty big...Cannon ad Svitek are a pretty big drop off...may be due to injury, but still a pretty big drop off.

    [/QUOTE]

    But people on these boards kept telling me that Cannon was first round talent, that BB drafting him knowing he would not be ready to play for at least full season was going to be the steal of the draft. Of course, those are the same people who said that Sudfeld as a UDFA could slide right in to replace Gronk and Hern.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    first, it is not my critique, it is Mathew Jones of NEPD

    I would also say that the issue is with coach Scar and the GM...

    Dont discount the lack of depth on the OL...and the fact that Thomas is no longer here for that depth is pretty big...Cannon ad Svitek are a pretty big drop off...may be due to injury, but still a pretty big drop off.

    [/QUOTE]

    But people on these boards kept telling me that Cannon was first round talent, that BB drafting him knowing he would not be ready to play for at least full season was going to be the steal of the draft. Of course, those are the same people who said that Sudfeld as a UDFA could slide right in to replace Gronk and Hern.

    [/QUOTE]

    for what it is worth, summer camp 2012, I said Cannon was the worst player on the line, the 9th man in an 8 man rotaion, and I did not think he was going to make the team. Of course he did make the team, and I thought he made strides towards the end of last year. Like the rest of the OL this year, I feel Cannon in his limited snaps has been very inconsistent, with mental errors, physical errors, and simply getting beat at the LOS...I still do see the potential, but I am concerned he has not taken advantage of Connollys poor play and forced his way to more snaps. This could be injury related, with this team, we will never know

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One of the challenges the Pats offense is facing this year is without experienced receivers (and particularly without Welker) it's harder for Brady to release the ball fast.  This requires the O line to really step up its play.  I've argued in the past that the Pats O line looked better than it really was because of Brady's quick decision making.

    This will be a really unpopular statement, but less shotgun could also be an issue.  Shotgun passes are fast developing because the QB doesn't have to drop back and has a good view of the field.  I think it was RallyC last year who, while criticizing the Pats' heavy use of the shotgun, also made the comment that part of the reason they were using it so much is because Brady is not particularly  fast on his drop backs

     

    Def. some merit to those Pro. No Doubt. Wes was always open quick cuz he ran 5 yard routes. People wanted a deep threat and these new guys while fast are not making Brdys job easier with slow developing deep routes. Those work off Playaction....When you have been running it. Weve started 2 games this year with playaction on 1st play.. The Drew to Glenn if you will. It doesnt work all the time..and Brady doesnt have reliable checkdowns he trusts so Play over!

    In terms of shotgun,. yes on 7 step drops, you  lose a couple seconds while the slow footed Brady drops back but it also lets him identify blitzers and see the field before snap. It worked great for years because our D was suspect and we needed to score alot and fast and had the personell for it. Now, not so much and Brady is the one thats look bad because of it. Everything is off now and the only guy can help is Joshy by balancing things up, slow it down and let the D make plays. Its like they still think they have to score 40. Joshy  needs to go. he may call a good game this week but he is always gonna revert back to bad habits. Its proven now

    [/QUOTE]


    +1

    The shotgun might help with vision and protection and timing, however they don't have the guy to get open while double and triple teamed (welker), because no one cares what the stick men on the perimeter are doing.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled


    +1

    The shotgun might help with vision and protection and timing, however they don't have the guy to get open while double and triple teamed (welker), because no one cares what the stick men on the perimeter are doing.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly. Honestly I think Amendola not being on the field may be the biggest problem at the moment...well he and Vareen. Qbs need an outlet because guys aint gonna be open every play and with these guys its very infrequent. So the loss of a guy like Danny who can work the slot if huge. Edleman is limited, lets be honest. He is eletric with the ball, but he dissapears in games(Chris Carter voice) and is no Wes Welker. The advantages that we talked about in offseason with Danny being faster and taller wont come to fruition this year cuz the groin injury has made him slower than Wes and negated his Vertical. So we were better off just keeping Eds at 1 million and getting Collie to back him up. I blame Joshy cuz Im sure it was him who made the call...smh

     

    Joshy Must Go!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    +1

    The shotgun might help with vision and protection and timing, however they don't have the guy to get open while double and triple teamed (welker), because no one cares what the stick men on the perimeter are doing.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly. Honestly I think Amendola not being on the field may be the biggest problem at the moment...well he and Vareen. Qbs need an outlet because guys aint gonna be open every play and with these guys its very infrequent. So the loss of a guy like Danny who can work the slot if huge. Edleman is limited, lets be honest. He is eletric with the ball, but he dissapears in games(Chris Carter voice) and is no Wes Welker. The advantages that we talked about in offseason with Danny being faster and taller wont come to fruition this year cuz the groin injury has made him slower than Wes and negated his Vertical. So we were better off just keeping Eds at 1 million and getting Collie to back him up. I blame Joshy cuz Im sure it was him who made the call...smh

     

    Joshy Must Go!

    [/QUOTE]


    With out a doubt the slot talent (or lack of it) is an issue, but would the defenders be crowding the box as much, if the stick men could actually catch?

    The Saints got burned with single coverage, but how often do you expect that will happen with guys that can't catch 40% of their passes and lead the league in drops?

    Edelman, Thompkins and Dobson all in the top 5, in drops, with Bolden being up there too.

    I'm sorry, but I see every single issue with the O (from TB to the O-line to the coaching) as a result of 2 receivers who have no business starting at this point in their career and the lack of experience in the system from the others.

    Who's fault is that?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    first, it is not my critique, it is Mathew Jones of NEPD

    I would also say that the issue is with coach Scar and the GM...

    Dont discount the lack of depth on the OL...and the fact that Thomas is no longer here for that depth is pretty big...Cannon ad Svitek are a pretty big drop off...may be due to injury, but still a pretty big drop off.

    [/QUOTE]

    But people on these boards kept telling me that Cannon was first round talent, that BB drafting him knowing he would not be ready to play for at least full season was going to be the steal of the draft. Of course, those are the same people who said that Sudfeld as a UDFA could slide right in to replace Gronk and Hern.

    [/QUOTE]

    for what it is worth, summer camp 2012, I said Cannon was the worst player on the line, the 9th man in an 8 man rotaion, and I did not think he was going to make the team. Of course he did make the team, and I thought he made strides towards the end of last year. Like the rest of the OL this year, I feel Cannon in his limited snaps has been very inconsistent, with mental errors, physical errors, and simply getting beat at the LOS...I still do see the potential, but I am concerned he has not taken advantage of Connollys poor play and forced his way to more snaps. This could be injury related, with this team, we will never know

    [/QUOTE]

    The o-line has quickly gone from a position of strength to a weakness on this team. Of course it is all related. Brady has to hold the ball a beat longer because of a lack of rhythm in the passing game and that makes these guys look worse. They have been pretty average running the ball as well.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    Hey Rkrap or is Rborges?! Looks like your inital post was removed??! How come plagarism?!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to pezz4pats's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    +1

    The shotgun might help with vision and protection and timing, however they don't have the guy to get open while double and triple teamed (welker), because no one cares what the stick men on the perimeter are doing.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly. Honestly I think Amendola not being on the field may be the biggest problem at the moment...well he and Vareen. Qbs need an outlet because guys aint gonna be open every play and with these guys its very infrequent. So the loss of a guy like Danny who can work the slot if huge. Edleman is limited, lets be honest. He is eletric with the ball, but he dissapears in games(Chris Carter voice) and is no Wes Welker. The advantages that we talked about in offseason with Danny being faster and taller wont come to fruition this year cuz the groin injury has made him slower than Wes and negated his Vertical. So we were better off just keeping Eds at 1 million and getting Collie to back him up. I blame Joshy cuz Im sure it was him who made the call...smh

     

    Joshy Must Go!

    [/QUOTE]


    With out a doubt the slot talent (or lack of it) is an issue, but would the defenders be crowding the box as much, if the stick men could actually catch?

    The Saints got burned with single coverage, but how often do you expect that will happen with guys that can't catch 40% of their passes and lead the league in drops?

    Edelman, Thompkins and Dobson all in the top 5, in drops, with Bolden being up there too.

    I'm sorry, but I see every single issue with the O (from TB to the O-line to the coaching) as a result of 2 receivers who have no business starting at this point in their career and the lack of experience in the system from the others.

    Who's fault is that?

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats part of it too. At best, they should be complimentary. In the history of the NFL, the hardest transition is WR. Ive seen plenty of BUSTS in the 1st round. Ask Detroit and Washington,etc. So unless your guy is a top ten 10 Surefire pick, you have no business asking him to start and contribute right away. Thats true for ANY system, let alone the hardest one in the league, thats why the LLoyd thing was a head scratcher. I like BB as a coach, but his latest gm gaffes are really getting old. Cuts a cheap LLoyd who had 74 catched cuz he is bipolar instead of offering help. Cuts Tiquan Underwood day b4 the SB. Loses Gronk on an extra point try in blowout. Loses Wes due to him being a D*ck all year and making Wes wanna leave and "stick it to Bill" , Goes in with no backups at the DT spot, signs an old veteran for 5 years who couldnt last past preseason. Reached on Wilson who hasnt played AT ALL THIS YEAR!  Kept a Gimpy Ballard for over a year and got NOTHING from him. Cut a good guy in Fells over the flava of the month Sudfeld who was cut later. Shall I go on....

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    Oh my god, Oline is now our weakness..?

    With injuries to Gronk, Wilfork, Mayo, Talib, Amendola, Vereen and a bevy of rookie receivers, the weakness we should be worrying ourselves sick over now is O Line?

    It couldn't be that the Jests defensive tackles were big and good, or the Saints, it has to be that we sux...  

    Get a grip, worry about who is going to play DT this week, who is covering Mayo's production, will Talib be back...  

    To be fair I've never been a fan of an undersized center like Wendell, always thought Connolly should start at center and Cannon or Kline should start at guard but the offense hasn't played well, it isn't only the receivers, the O Line, Brady or McDaniels, it's all of the above.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriotrain. Show patriotrain's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here we go...

    See, this is why I had to start the thread I did about Brady's shoulder.  What a bunch of morons.

    We stop running it and OL isn't perfect in pass protection. Gee, I am confused why that happens!

    lmao

     confused is your natural state.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh my god, Oline is now our weakness..?

    With injuries to Gronk, Wilfork, Mayo, Talib, Amendola, Vereen and a bevy of rookie receivers, the weakness we should be worrying ourselves sick over now is O Line?

    It couldn't be that the Jests defensive tackles were big and good, or the Saints, it has to be that we sux...  

    Get a grip, worry about who is going to play DT this week, who is covering Mayo's production, will Talib be back...  

    To be fair I've never been a fan of an undersized center like Wendell, always thought Connolly should start at center and Cannon or Kline should start at guard but the offense hasn't played well, it isn't only the receivers, the O Line, Brady or McDaniels, it's all of the above.

    [/QUOTE]

    Wozzy, it all starts in the trenches. Both sides of the ball, key to success is at the LOS. It is a testament to superior coaching and QB that the team has overcome some personel short comings. Kudos for trading for Talib, finding the UDFA every year that contributes, drafting Jones. But all in all, this team is too young, and lacking in depth. Any other coach and QB would have trouble with this roster and winning with it.

    There was another link here...if TB was on the Jets...well change that. If TB and BB were on the Jets THIS YEAR, and Rex and Smith are on the PAts, what is your opinion? Who wins the division this year?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    Looks like the new 'Brady has no responsibility for loses' excuse is that he needs not to be touched or hurried in order to complete passes?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Looking ahead, with strong comments regarding the OL which is why the O has struggled

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here we go...

    See, this is why I had to start the thread I did about Brady's shoulder.  What a bunch of morons.

    We stop running it and OL isn't perfect in pass protection. Gee, I am confused why that happens!

    lmao

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, if only the head coach has some control over the play calling we would keep running when it is working...

     
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