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Looking back at the Raven's game.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    Rusty out of Ridley's 18 carries, only 2 were out of the shotgun.  Just stop already.  I checked the drive logs.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    We couldn't overcome the injuries and played poorly. We finished 4th last year and 2nd the year before. Unacceptable.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    Ravens were the better team on the day, maybe? But wouldn't 31 other teams want the Pats' 2002-2012 10 year record? Sometimes we forget the other teams pay professional coaches and players to create and execute gameplans as well. The table below is pretty darn remarkable, folks! Give the post-mortem a rest.

    • 1. New England Patriots (0.767)
    • 2. Indianapolis Colts (0.6932)
    • 3. Pittsburgh Steelers (0.6449)
    • 4. Green Bay Packers (0.6250)
    • 5. Baltimore Ravens (0.5909)
    • 6. Philadelphia Eagles (0.5881)
    • 7. San Diego Chargers (0.5852)
    • 8. Atlanta Falcons (0.571)
    • 9. Denver Broncos (0.5625)
    • 10. New York Giants (0.5511)
    • 10. New Orleans Saints (0.5511)
    • 12. Dallas Cowboys (0.5341)
    • 13. Chicago Bears (0.5227)
    • 13. Tennessee Titans (0.5227)
    • 13. Seattle Seahawks (0.5227)
    • 16. Minnesota Vikings (0.4943)
    • 17. New York Jets (0.4886)
    • 17. Carolina Panthers (0.4886)
    • 19. Cincinnati Bengals (0.4631)
    • 20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (0.4602)
    • 21. San Francisco 49ers (0.4574)
    • 22. Jacksonville Jaguars (0.4432)
    • 23. Miami Dolphins (0.4375)
    • 23. Houston Texans (0.4375)
    • 25. Kansas City Chiefs (0.4318)
    • 26. Washington Redskins (0.4261)
    • 27. Buffalo Bills (0.4034)
    • 28. Arizona Cardinals (0.3977)
    • 29. St. Louis Rams (0.3608)
    • 30. Cleveland Browns (0.3466)
    • 31. Oakland Raiders (0.3409)
    • 32. Detroit Lions (0.2898)

    By the way, there is no bigger point spread between two contiguous teams on that chart than between the Patriots and the Colts...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    Woodhead had 2 carries in the first half both of which came on the hurry up drive before the end of the half.  The Pats ran 45 plays in the first half of which 19 were from the shotgun which is a hair over 42% not 90%.  Outside of the last drive of the half where they ran 7 of 8 plays from the shotgun they ran 37 plays of which 12 were from the shotgun which is a hair over 32%.

    So let's recap.  In the first half Ridley had double digit carries of which only 1 was from the shotgun.  Woodhead had 2 carries all of which were in the last drive of the half meaning he had ZERO carries before that drive. Other than that drive the Patriots ran under a third of their plays from the shotgun.  Believe it or not lots of teams run their hurry up offenses at the end of halves out of the shotgun so harping on that is like harping on football 101.  Even including that drive the majority of the plays run were not out of the shotgun.  Just stop.  You cannot win this no matter how hard you try.  I can't wait to hear what new excuse you will come up with next.



     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to neinmd's comment:

     

    Ravens were the better team on the day, maybe? But wouldn't 31 other teams want the Pats' 2002-2012 10 year record? Sometimes we forget the other teams pay professional coaches and players to create and execute gameplans as well. The table below is pretty darn remarkable, folks! Give the post-mortem a rest.

    • 1. New England Patriots (0.767)
    • 2. Indianapolis Colts (0.6932)
    • 3. Pittsburgh Steelers (0.6449)
    • 4. Green Bay Packers (0.6250)
    • 5. Baltimore Ravens (0.5909)
    • 6. Philadelphia Eagles (0.5881)
    • 7. San Diego Chargers (0.5852)
    • 8. Atlanta Falcons (0.571)
    • 9. Denver Broncos (0.5625)
    • 10. New York Giants (0.5511)
    • 10. New Orleans Saints (0.5511)
    • 12. Dallas Cowboys (0.5341)
    • 13. Chicago Bears (0.5227)
    • 13. Tennessee Titans (0.5227)
    • 13. Seattle Seahawks (0.5227)
    • 16. Minnesota Vikings (0.4943)
    • 17. New York Jets (0.4886)
    • 17. Carolina Panthers (0.4886)
    • 19. Cincinnati Bengals (0.4631)
    • 20. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (0.4602)
    • 21. San Francisco 49ers (0.4574)
    • 22. Jacksonville Jaguars (0.4432)
    • 23. Miami Dolphins (0.4375)
    • 23. Houston Texans (0.4375)
    • 25. Kansas City Chiefs (0.4318)
    • 26. Washington Redskins (0.4261)
    • 27. Buffalo Bills (0.4034)
    • 28. Arizona Cardinals (0.3977)
    • 29. St. Louis Rams (0.3608)
    • 30. Cleveland Browns (0.3466)
    • 31. Oakland Raiders (0.3409)
    • 32. Detroit Lions (0.2898)

     




    I doubt those teams care much about records. I think they care about Lombardis.

     

    I haven't seen many Bills fans bragging about losing 4 SBs in a row.




    I give up. You are right. We should win the Lombardi trophy more than 3 times a decade and be in the SuperBowl more than 5 times during that span. It's just not good enough. You do know that this is a game played by human beings with all that entails, right?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    We were ahead 13-7 at the half. So far so good.

    After trading punts to start the second half the Raven's mounted a long drive and scored a TD to make it 14-13. A close game at this point.

    Pats get the ball back and a 10 yard penalty stifles the drive.

    The Raven's mount another long drive culminating with another TD to start the 4th quarter.

    Things are getting a bit out of hand here at 21-13.

    Time to step up. The Pats start moving the ball but Ridley gets knocked into next Tuesday and coughs up the ball. Ravens score easily making it 28-13.

    15 points down with 11 minutes left.

    Brady passes them to the Raven's 19 and they go for it on 4th down. No dice. A FG here would have narrowed the lead to 12 points. 8.5 minutes left.

    D gets a 3 and out. Good field position. Brady hits Welker for 36. Pass gets intercepted (tipped?).

    Ravens burn nearly 5 minutes off the clock and punt. Game over.

    2 minutes left and down 15 points. Desperate times. Brady drives them down into the teeth of a Raven's D set up for pass pass pass. He gets picked passing from their 22. Game was already over anyway.

     

     

     

    Looks to me like the crucial moment was Ridley getting knocked into next week and coughing up a TD. Exactly the wrong time to do that and that probably was the decisive moment in the game. From that point things became desperate. 

    Add in a missed 4th down in desperation time, an INT (tipped?), and a defensive stop that ate up way too much time and you have a rather embarrassing loss.

     

    From Asante Samuel's drop to Welker's drop to Ridley's fumble we just haven't made the plays in these key moments to win these crucial contests in recent years.

     



    I agree except I think it had gotten critical by the time Ridley fumbled. The O had not risen to the occasion to that point (in an AFC Chaqmpionship game) but possibly more critical or at least as critical was that the D did not rise to the occasion when it gave up those drives or simply did not make big plays forcing turnovers.

    Yoou are right in any case. The team has not come up with plays in enough critical moments but has given them up enough to lose some key playoff games and two SBs.

    What is needed is clutch plays not a one play choke (like the bad pass and drop in the last SB). What is needed is an UPGRADE on both sides of the trenches so that the O and the D can create the situations needed to be able to generate those big plays. They are not so much luck as players setting up situations within a play for teammates to make a big play. Pressures are easy examples of that. SO is the play of Vinny almost all of last year.

    The O line has been falling short of the mark for 6 years. A good line but with weaknesses against the top Ds they face in the playoffs.

     

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

     

    I have a hard time blaming Ridley for a play where he was making the extra effort and putting himself at risk by doing so.  Ridley's play may have put the nail in the coffin so to speak, but it's hard to fault the guy for effort.  The Pats got outhit and outhustled on both sides of the ball and Flacco had a good game throwing it deep and taking advantage of mismatches all over the field.    

     




    I can only say when those huge moments show up in a game you have to make the play. Period. Same goes with Welker's and Samuel's drops in the SBs.

     

    When you are getting behind the 8-ball in a game like that one, job #1 has to be take care of the ball. No amount of effort changes that. All efforts must be bent to keeping the rock.

     




    I do not blame Ridley. And Babe is not incorrect either from a team standpoint. The Pats have not been making the ciritcal plays but they have been giving them up. But I think this is in part a team thing not an individual thing... not in every case. Often the O or D line puts the rest of the team in position to make a big play by doing their job very well in a big moment. A pressure forcing a mistake. Giving TB time to find a player breaking free or a hole for a running back.

    Of curse there are individual moments.. a dropped pic or a dropped pass... AND THOSE ARE CRITICAL. SOme players make them. Ours have not been doing so. But I think overall the team is responsible for each other even in generally making things happen in big moments.

    That is why Vinny is so valuable. He makes plays setting up others on D to make bigger plays.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    So, apparently the world's greatest GM can't coach? 

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    Dude, you're not mentioning Vereen.  Vereen and Woodhead have the same skill set and are used in the hurry ups or shotguns. I don't care who specifically it is in those formations.

    We didn't run a hurry up at the end of a half. I have no issue with that at all. We started the game with it!

    Why is it that our offensive gameplans are totally overthought and there is too much tinkering, with no rhythm attempted to be developed, and somehow when we lose those games people act all confused?

    Why can't we just go toe to toe and just line up and get the run game established/attempt to do it in traditonal formations? What is the problem?

    A hurry up or 2 minute, a shotgun spread, a read option, etc, shouldn't be a base of an offense.

    That's sort of the point. You think it can be. I don't think it can be because it's not enough.

    In my last post to you, I didn't even count our last drive before halftime, because I fully realize with 1:14 left at the 47, you should be using a 2 minute there.

    Why are you so defensive about this anyway?

    All we have to do is get back to he basics, smash mouth early, dictate and impose our will, etc.   For whatever reason, we don't do that. When we do, we win.



    The hurry up and the shotgun are not the same thing.  You were talking about how we can't establish the run out of the shotgun.  I have demonstrated we didn't.  Now you are shifting the goalposts to include the hurryup as if that is a separate formation.  IT IS NOT.  If you bring in 2TEs and play smash mouth football up the middle it is the same formation whether you quick snapped it or not.  It's the same play for crying out loud.  You never care about this when it supports your agenda (see Denver game).  After that game you were raving about the playcalling and the run game despite the fact that all we did was run hurry up over and over and over again.  All the available evidence shows that we didn't run an inordinate number of shotgun plays and Ridley got more carries with Brady under center than in most games we had all season up until he got knocked out.  The loss to the Ravens does not support your argument about the offense.  It never has and never will.

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Woodhead had 2 carries in the first half both of which came on the hurry up drive before the end of the half.  The Pats ran 45 plays in the first half of which 19 were from the shotgun which is a hair over 42% not 90%.  Outside of the last drive of the half where they ran 7 of 8 plays from the shotgun they ran 37 plays of which 12 were from the shotgun which is a hair over 32%.

    So let's recap.  In the first half Ridley had double digit carries of which only 1 was from the shotgun.  Woodhead had 2 carries all of which were in the last drive of the half meaning he had ZERO carries before that drive. Other than that drive the Patriots ran under a third of their plays from the shotgun.  Believe it or not lots of teams run their hurry up offenses at the end of halves out of the shotgun so harping on that is like harping on football 101.  Even including that drive the majority of the plays run were not out of the shotgun.  Just stop.  You cannot win this no matter how hard you try.  I can't wait to hear what new excuse you will come up with next.



     



     

    Dude, you're not mentioning Vereen.  Vereen and Woodhead have the same skill set and are used in the hurry ups or shotguns. I don't care who specifically it is in those formations.

    We didn't run a hurry up at the end of a half. I have no issue with that at all. We started the game with it!

    Why is it that our offensive gameplans are totally overthought and there is too much tinkering, with no rhythm attempted to be developed, and somehow when we lose those games people act all confused?

    Why can't we just go toe to toe and just line up and get the run game established/attempt to do it in traditonal formations? What is the problem?

    A hurry up or 2 minute, a shotgun spread, a read option, etc, shouldn't be a base of an offense.

    That's sort of the point. You think it can be. I don't think it can be because it's not enough.

    In my last post to you, I didn't even count our last drive before halftime, because I fully realize with 1:14 left at the 47, you should be using a 2 minute there.

    Why are you so defensive about this anyway?

    All we have to do is get back to he basics, smash mouth early, dictate and impose our will, etc.   For whatever reason, we don't do that. When we do, we win.




    While Vereen and Woodhead both are good 3rd down backs their styles are nothing alike and their skill sets are different. There are certain kinds of plays that Woodhead excels at and others that Vereen excels at. Plus I believe Vereen can be a feature back not wholly unlike Ray Rice (though they are also different players) while Woodhead cannot.

    Vereen I think also has more skills as a downfield receiver than Woody. And he has better skills at running the ball outside where Woody is great at cutting back behind blockers but does not have stright line speed to just take it to the outside. I think they are very different players.

     

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Looking back at the Raven's game.

    I thought it was a typical game we've come to expect out of this team come playoff time against a good opponent. Offense relies on Brady's arm to score points, move the ball, close out halfs, kill the clock, control the clock, win field position...when that doesn't happen we lose. Pretty simple stuff.

    Our defense tries hard...generally shows up to play good run D.  We are well coached - people are not out of position - we don't get fooled on anything, but when those third and long obvious passing situations arrive we don't have the talent to get it done. The QB has all day to look over the field and our corners can't cover long enough. To the naked eye it looks like things are almost good enough, but almost being good enough is in reality light years away in this league. Being almost good enough gets you beat...it may be close with outstanding coaching and playing tough, but when you're not good enough you lose. Until that changes we won't win another Super Bowl. 

     
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