Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    I am no fan of Sapp.  Not at all.  However, whenever something like this happens there are facilitators who lend money without DD.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    He should manage his funds accordingly, this is ridiculous.

    I hope the trustees reem him.

    Bye bye sneakers!!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    This sentence by Sapp says it all about his sh!tbag character; This," Sapp said of bankruptcy, "was the only way I could get out." Yeah, that or pay your dang bills!!! Dont matter if its business or personal, he signed his name to the loan and HE IS RESPONSIBLE!! Not you, me, the kid bagging groceries for minimum wage, or any other hardworking American!

    And for those of you brought race into this discussion; GIVE ME A BREAK! Its not a black white issue its a green (money) issue! And you folks are probably the ones that wonder why black folks always drop the race card!!!!! Yet here you are doing it for them!! You ought to be ashamed of yourself for bringing race into this discussion.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...



    Of course if he really has no money to pay his bills and they're due, he almost is forced into declaring bankruptcy unless his creditors will agree to work something out with him in lieu of a bankruptcy filing.  If you don't have the money to pay, you don't have the money to pay.  Bankruptcy becomes the only option. 

    And while race may have nothing to do with the way the Sapp situation has been reported, it is a legitimate question to ask why the Sapp situation is being reported so heavily and why Sapp is being subjected to so much ridicule, when several prominent white players have announced bankruptcy filings recently with far less attention being paid to them, despite many of the circumstances of the bankruptcy being quite similar. 

    The Brunell bankruptcy (also triggered by bad real estate deals) was often reported in sympathetic tones (he was too generous and trusting with his money) while the Sapp story seems to be presented as an example if foolishness and irresponsibility.  Why the difference?  Is it because we have maybe unconscious preconceptions about blacks?  I know everybody will protest not . . . but sometimes the lady doth protest too much, methinks. . . . as I'm sure we'll all see just as soon as I press "add your post" Wink


     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NCPatsFan1971. Show NCPatsFan1971's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]Of course if he really has no money to pay his bills and they're due, he almost is forced into declaring bankruptcy unless his creditors will agree to work something out with him in lieu of a bankruptcy filing.  If you don't have the money to pay, you don't have the money to pay.  Bankruptcy becomes the only option.  And while race may have nothing to do with the way the Sapp situation has been reported, it is a legitimate question to ask why the Sapp situation is being reported so heavily and why Sapp is being subjected to so much ridicule, when several prominent white players have announced bankruptcy filings recently with far less attention being paid to them, despite many of the circumstances of the bankruptcy being quite similar.  The Brunell bankruptcy (also triggered by bad real estate deals) was often reported in sympathetic tones (he was too generous and trusting with his money) while the Sapp story seems to be presented as an example if foolishness and irresponsibility.  Why the difference?  Is it because we have maybe unconscious preconceptions about blacks?  I know everybody will protest not . . . but sometimes the lady doth protest too much, methinks. . . . as I'm sure we'll all see just as soon as I press "add your post"   
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]



    Instead of playing the race card, what if there is more reporting about Sapp than Brunell because Sapp is a loud mouth boor with strong visabity who has had no problem throwing anyone under the buss verbally.   OTOH, I haven't heard much about Brunell good or bad. 

    Race has nothing to do with this.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]Of course if he really has no money to pay his bills and they're due, he almost is forced into declaring bankruptcy unless his creditors will agree to work something out with him in lieu of a bankruptcy filing.  If you don't have the money to pay, you don't have the money to pay.  Bankruptcy becomes the only option.  And while race may have nothing to do with the way the Sapp situation has been reported, it is a legitimate question to ask why the Sapp situation is being reported so heavily and why Sapp is being subjected to so much ridicule, when several prominent white players have announced bankruptcy filings recently with far less attention being paid to them, despite many of the circumstances of the bankruptcy being quite similar.  The Brunell bankruptcy (also triggered by bad real estate deals) was often reported in sympathetic tones (he was too generous and trusting with his money) while the Sapp story seems to be presented as an example if foolishness and irresponsibility.  Why the difference?  Is it because we have maybe unconscious preconceptions about blacks?  I know everybody will protest not . . . but sometimes the lady doth protest too much, methinks. . . . as I'm sure we'll all see just as soon as I press "add your post"   
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Pro, for one thing it's because of the type of bankruptcy. Chapter 7 is pretty server and affects the share holders of the bank more then filling Chapter 13 which is what most businesses do (that's what Trump fills to break contracts then liquidates the smaller company to pay the remaining debt not Chapter 7).

    For another is that he's a big name. I'm sure there have been white people (actors most likely) who have filled for Chapter 7 who have had this reported too. Actually, my dad use to watch economic news reports and they would report on white CEO's filling for Chapter 7/13 all the time. But, Sapp is a big name that most people know, how many CEO's names do you instantly recognize? Why would any news report on a CEO that no one knows if what they want is ratings? Sapp draws ratings because he's an instantly recognizable name unlike most CEO's. Additionally it's reported here is because most people hate Sapp do to his bias against the Pats but additionally that he was/still is involved with football and this is a football forum so the fact that he's black has zero to do with it. Sorry Pro but you're looking for a color issue when known exist.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country... : Pro, for one thing it's because of the type of bankruptcy. Chapter 7 is pretty server and affects the share holders of the bank more then filling Chapter 13 which is what most businesses do (that's what Trump fills to break contracts then liquidates the smaller company to pay the remaining debt not Chapter 7). For another is that he's a big name. I'm sure there have been white people (actors most likely) who have filled for Chapter 7 who have had this reported too. Actually, my dad use to watch economic news reports and they would report on white CEO's filling for Chapter 7/13 all the time. But, Sapp is a big name that most people know, how many CEO's names do you instantly recognize? Why would any news report on a CEO that no one knows if what they want is ratings? Sapp draws ratings because he's an instantly recognizable name unlike most CEO's. Additionally it's reported here is because most people hate Sapp do to his bias against the Pats but additionally that he was/still is involved with football and this is a football forum so the fact that he's black has zero to do with it. Sorry Pro but you're looking for a color issue when known exist.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    All possible Eng, but so is the race issue.  And while there are reasons for Sapp maybe to get more publicity because he's on TV a lot, it's as much the tone of the reporting as the amount of reporting that suggests a possible undertone not so much of racism but of the potential subconscious influence of racial stereotypes. I know you won't agree and I'm not expecting you to or wanting to argue back and forth.  It's just one more thing that's interesting in my opinon to consider in this situation. 

    If, however, we are going to say Sapp's fate is symptomatic of the decline of Western civilization, then I think we all have to admit that there's a long line of bankrupt individuals that precede him in that march toward collapse. Sapp is hardly alone here. 


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stommpper. Show Stommpper's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]How the h e l l can anyone be in debt when they are pulling in over 100K/month??!! Absolutely mind boggling!!
    Posted by LittleTimmy31[/QUOTE]

    I can testify to the fact of, no matter how much you make or how little you make, if you do not budget what you spend you will go broke quickly.

    I have been extremely fortunate, in the right places at the right times, but have bought the expensive things and wound up on the other side, its a very easy thing to do.
    For the last 8 years I have been on a budget and find I spend far less knowing I have only a certain amount to use freely.
    Its a very eye opening experience to say the least...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country... : I can testify to the fact of, no matter how much you make or how little you make, if you do not budget what you spend you will go broke quickly. I have been extremely fortunate, in the right places at the right times, but have bought the expensive things and wound up on the other side, its a very easy thing to do. For the last 8 years I have been on a budget and find I spend far less knowing I have only a certain amount to use freely. Its a very eye opening experience to say the least...
    Posted by Stommpper[/QUOTE]

    It's amazing how easy it is to spend money without even realizing it. Stommper is right, the whole key to financial security, rich or poor, is to put down on paper everything you take in and everything you put out . . . it's a truly eye-opening activity and once you do it, it suddenly becomes clear why so many people end up in debt.  In fact, I was one of those in-debt people too until I did this one simple exercise of creating a budget and sticking to it . . . totally changed my life!




     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country... : All fine, but does it bother you as much when Donald Trump does it?  Or how about when the airlines (and many other companies) do it in part to get rid of their pension obligations?  Or what about Mark Brunell?  A few commentators have questioned why Sapp is getting so much condemnation, while no one seemed to care about Brunell's recent bankruptcy?  A few have suggested that Sapp's story fits with a preconception that black athletes are irresponsible, while Brunell's doesn't.  I'm not saying that anyone here intends to be racist, but could preconceptions based on race be triggering some of the negative press for Sapp when Brunell and Kosar and a host of other white NFL athletes seem able to file bankruptcy without being widely ridiculed or condemned for dragging down American society? Just a few questions to ask before we go too far down this path of jumping all over Sapp. 
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    Just one point Trump never filed for personnel bankruptcy. On four occasions corporations owned by him filed for chapter 11 protection. In doing so he kept the corps, solvent and saved thousands of jobs. If that was wrong than the most profitable institution's in America were wrong in not folding up shop and taking gov. assistance in the last couple years saving millions of jobs. There is a BIG difference between personal chapter 7 bankruptcy and corporations chapter 11 protection.
    He could have let the companies sink, go under, let all those jobs die, and walked away none the worst.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    a good deal of these retired athletes move to personal chapter 7 or 13 bankruptcies to get out from under unreasonable alimony and child support payments that were set up at a time in their professional careers when they were racking up Millions a year. When a payment of $50,000 a month was no problem during their prime it becomes a killer in retirement when their income is severely reduced. That is probably a greater cause than failed business ventures. These unreasonable awards to people who would never have any chance at seeing that type of cash are a problem with this country.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    A true knucklehead
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stommpper. Show Stommpper's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country... : It's amazing how easy it is to spend money without even realizing it. Stommper is right, the whole key to financial security, rich or poor, is to put down on paper everything you take in and everything you put out . . . it's a truly eye-opening activity and once you do it, it suddenly becomes clear why so many people end up in debt.  In fact, I was one of those in-debt people too until I did this one simple exercise of creating a budget and sticking to it . . . totally changed my life!
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]
    AMEN Prolate....
    I had more money coming in than I knew what to do with and got into trouble fast, you never think its going to end...
    The funniest thing is the adive I got that set me straight was from a child! A friends 11 year old daughter who said how proud she was because she budgeted her allowance, as adults we tend to overlook the simpliest things.
    Glad to hear you recovered.
    I wish you all prosperity, may we all learn from people such as Mr. Sapp and benifit! (Oh and listen to kids sometimes they know what they are talking about lol...)

    Maybe the kids could teach us to be better adults too!!! you never know Yell
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country... : It's indicative because instead of taken personal responsibility and working his way out of debt instead he's taking the easy route of filling bankruptcy and passing the buck. That's how most Americans treat debt is if something doesn't go right and they get a little over their head instead of bearing down, taking the punishment, and working yourself out of the debt they look for the quick solution such as bankruptcy or the reduce debt options out there passing the buck to those who are responsible with their credit and pay on time. You can't tell me that a man pulling in $100K a month with over $6mil in assets should fill for bankruptcy when a bank tries to redeem the loan he signed off on by taking $33K from his paycheck per month. Even if the government takes $40K from $100K and the bank takes $33K he still takes home $324K a year! Are you telling me he can't live off of that? No he's just passing the buck on to the next next to save $250K (his debt - his assets 'if he gets full value for those assets') and get out of the loan he's currently in. Who do you think pays that remaining amount? The share holders and costumers in that bank. Now the average person won't rack up that much debt that can't be paid off but there are a lot more average people then Sapp's in the world (no pun intended) and $10K at a time adds up pretty quick
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Then most people are stupid. Filing for bankruptcy destroys your credit for 10 years. There are some legit reasons. Serious medical problems for instance can drain all your money pretty quickly even if you have health insurance. Filing is a way to at least make sure you can keep your home.

    I do see your point though. For instance many people used the mortgage crisis as an excuse to walk away from their expensive properties despite still being able to make the payments because they paid too much to begin with and when the bubble burst their property value dropped.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country... : Then most people are stupid. Filing for bankruptcy destroys your credit for 10 years. There are some legit reasons. Serious medical problems for instance can drain all your money pretty quickly even if you have health insurance. Filing is a way to at least make sure you can keep your home. I do see your point though. For instance many people used the mortgage crisis as an excuse to walk away from their expensive properties despite still being able to make the payments because they paid too much to begin with and when the bubble burst their property value dropped.
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]

    I agree and yes glen, most people are stupid. If you want proof all you need to do is watch day time TV which has an unbelievable amount of 'get out of debt easily' and 'over burdened by debt, declare bankruptcy call the offices of' commercials. There wouldn't be that many commercials if there wasn't a demand for them
     
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    Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...

    In response to "Re: Loudmouthed Warren Sapp part of the problem with this country...": [QUOTE]Interesting article in the Tampa Bay Times on the reasons for the bankruptcy.  Here's the key section (read it all at  http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/the-play-by-play-of-warren-sapps-59-page-bankruptcy-filing/1225135) But the attorneys who looked at the filing quickly focused instead on its more critical points. Sapp filed Chapter 7, the most drastic bankruptcy alternative that requires the sale of assets to pay off debts. He did this, they say, because he's trying to say that his debts are mostly business debts, not consumer debts. If that's true, it doesn't matter that he still brings in large chunks of cash — $45,000 a month to be an analyst for the NFL Network, appearance fees, money from a publisher for a forthcoming book titled  Sapp Attack . What he gets on a monthly basis fluctuates, but it's still the kind of hefty income that typically would disqualify somebody from Chapter 7 candidacy — according to the filing, an average of $115,881 a month. "Warren filed because of business debts," said Pugatch, his attorney. "There's no question in my mind he qualifies for Chapter 7." Sapp lists no credit card debt, for instance, a common form of consumer debt, and he also has no car debt. He shows no cars at all. He and Pugatch have labeled as a business debt the $90,685 he owes National Car Rental, the co-debtor being Nine-Nine LLC, described in the filing as an "artist management" business. Some of the lawyers the  Times  talked to think he'll be able stay in Chapter 7. Some don't. He can't file Chapter 13, which allows for repayment over time, because he has too much debt. He might end up having to file Chapter 11, some of them say, and the terms of that repayment plan would probably be less advantageous. It's ultimately up to the court to decide. All the attorneys, though, zeroed in on the bottom of Page 41 and the top of Page 42 in the filing. Here, they said, is  the  reason Sapp had no choice but to file bankruptcy, and why he had to do it now. PNC Bank took $33,333 straight out of his NFL Network paycheck in December, then again in January, then again in February, then again in March, and it would have happened again in April had he not filed on March 30. That's what's on the filing because it calls for this sort of activity over the last 90 days. Sapp says it has been going on for 11 months. The remainder of what he owes PNC Bank: $822,805. Said St. Petersburg bankruptcy lawyer Marshall Reissman: "I can hear him screaming to his lawyer, 'Enough is enough!' " What happened here? The payments to PNC Bank stem from a loan he got to try to build affordable housing in Fort Pierce in St. Lucie County. Sapp had two business partners in a company called Urban Solutions Group that was formed in 2006 — South Florida developer Steve Smoke and former Florida State and NFL player Devin Bush — and their endeavor started in earnest in 2008. It was an admitted failure. "They gave us a loan so we could purchase more lots," Bush said. "The real estate market started going into the tank." PNC sued Urban Solutions and won a judgment in 2010 for $988,691.99. The beginning of the end. Warren Sapp's Waterloo. "Were it not for the judgment and the other debts created by that deal," Pugatch said, "he would certainly not be facing what he's facing right now." "This," Sapp said of bankruptcy, "was the only way I could get out." Sounds like a bad investment in a business that had a good purpse.   Doesn't Donald Trump file for bankruptcy every few years because of real estate failures too? Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE] Except that $45,000 a month minus $33,000 taken out is $12,000 a month, or $144,000 a year. I manage to live off a third of that, most people do. He made a bad investment, he can pay it back but he doesn't want to because he likes making $600,000 a year not $144,000 a year. I say tough, cut back, quit buying so much junk, maybe live in a house that's only 4,000 square feet and drive just two escalades. He can still live very comfortably and I hope that's what the judge tells him.
     
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