Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    Our front seven includes:

    • Seven LBs on the 53-man roster: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais, White)
    • Three LBs on the practice squad: Davis, Davis, and Tarpinian
    • Four DEs on 53-man roster: Jones, Nink, Bequette, Buchanan 
    • No DEs on practice squad (yet)
    • Four DTs on 53-man roster: Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Francis
    • One DT on practice squad: Forsten

    We are very thin at (proven) DT, average at DE, and just loaded at LB.  

    Anybody else think BB may be using formations that put 4 LBs on the field most of the time?

    Any guesses on what we're going to do this year with this group?

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Our front seven includes:

    • Seven LBs on the 53-man roster: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais, White)
    • Three LBs on the practice squad: Davis, Davis, and Tarpinian
    • Four DEs on 53-man roster: Jones, Nink, Bequette, Buchanan 
    • No DEs on practice squad (yet)
    • Four DTs on 53-man roster: Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Francis
    • One DT on practice squad: Forsten

    We are very thin at (proven) DT, average at DE, and just loaded at LB.  

    Anybody else think BB may be using formations that put 4 LBs on the field most of the time?

    Any guesses on what we're going to do this year with this group?

     



    Did Francis get resigned?

    I can't see 4 LB formations unless they are using Hightower as a make shift DE/LB? We just don't have the bodies and size to only have 3 DL on the line. We'd get tossed around like a ragdoll by OL's

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Our front seven includes:

    • Seven LBs on the 53-man roster: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais, White)
    • Three LBs on the practice squad: Davis, Davis, and Tarpinian
    • Four DEs on 53-man roster: Jones, Nink, Bequette, Buchanan 
    • No DEs on practice squad (yet)
    • Four DTs on 53-man roster: Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Francis
    • One DT on practice squad: Forsten

    We are very thin at (proven) DT, average at DE, and just loaded at LB.  

    Anybody else think BB may be using formations that put 4 LBs on the field most of the time?

    Any guesses on what we're going to do this year with this group?

     

     



    It's what I've been thinking , especially since Spikes is a force against the run and Nink can play in in space, can't wait to see how this yr starts

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    Also, we may see a lot UFO up tempo teams, the big guys get tired faster

     

    btw I dont think jones will be average

    i think BB will have a lot of D looks


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Our front seven includes:

    • Seven LBs on the 53-man roster: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais, White)
    • Three LBs on the practice squad: Davis, Davis, and Tarpinian
    • Four DEs on 53-man roster: Jones, Nink, Bequette, Buchanan 
    • No DEs on practice squad (yet)
    • Four DTs on 53-man roster: Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Francis
    • One DT on practice squad: Forsten

    We are very thin at (proven) DT, average at DE, and just loaded at LB.  

    Anybody else think BB may be using formations that put 4 LBs on the field most of the time?

    Any guesses on what we're going to do this year with this group?

     

     

     



    Did Francis get resigned?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    different Francis.

    The other Francis cleared waivers and reverted to Pats IR

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    Any draftniks know anything about the safety Kanorris Davis on the PS? I read that he's a converted LB with 4.4-ish speed. Very small for a LB at 205, even for college, but seems like an interesting project.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

    Our front seven includes:

    • Seven LBs on the 53-man roster: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais, White)
    • Three LBs on the practice squad: Davis, Davis, and Tarpinian
    • Four DEs on 53-man roster: Jones, Nink, Bequette, Buchanan 
    • No DEs on practice squad (yet)
    • Four DTs on 53-man roster: Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Francis
    • One DT on practice squad: Forsten

    We are very thin at (proven) DT, average at DE, and just loaded at LB.  

    Anybody else think BB may be using formations that put 4 LBs on the field most of the time?

    Any guesses on what we're going to do this year with this group?

     

     

     



    Did Francis get resigned?

    I can't see 4 LB formations unless they are using Hightower as a make shift DE/LB? We just don't have the bodies and size to only have 3 DL on the line. We'd get tossed around like a ragdoll by OL's

    [/QUOTE]

    Different Francis.  DT from the Dolphins, not Justin from Rutgers. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

    Our front seven includes:

    • Seven LBs on the 53-man roster: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais, White)
    • Three LBs on the practice squad: Davis, Davis, and Tarpinian
    • Four DEs on 53-man roster: Jones, Nink, Bequette, Buchanan 
    • No DEs on practice squad (yet)
    • Four DTs on 53-man roster: Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Francis
    • One DT on practice squad: Forsten

    We are very thin at (proven) DT, average at DE, and just loaded at LB.  

    Anybody else think BB may be using formations that put 4 LBs on the field most of the time?

    Any guesses on what we're going to do this year with this group?

     

     

     



    Did Francis get resigned?

    I can't see 4 LB formations unless they are using Hightower as a make shift DE/LB? We just don't have the bodies and size to only have 3 DL on the line. We'd get tossed around like a ragdoll by OL's

    [/QUOTE]

    That's what's weird.  It would be a 3-4, but not with the usual size on the line.  Hightower might be the key because he's the third biggest guy in the (starting) front seven. 

    The goal might be to create more speed (and more pass rush) from a lighter front?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Our front seven includes:

    • Seven LBs on the 53-man roster: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais, White)
    • Three LBs on the practice squad: Davis, Davis, and Tarpinian
    • Four DEs on 53-man roster: Jones, Nink, Bequette, Buchanan 
    • No DEs on practice squad (yet)
    • Four DTs on 53-man roster: Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Francis
    • One DT on practice squad: Forsten

    We are very thin at (proven) DT, average at DE, and just loaded at LB.  

    Anybody else think BB may be using formations that put 4 LBs on the field most of the time?

    Any guesses on what we're going to do this year with this group?

     

     

     



    It's what I've been thinking , especially since Spikes is a force against the run and Nink can play in in space, can't wait to see how this yr starts

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, that's sort of where I'm thinking.  Spikes, Mayo, and Hightower all have a presence in the middle behind a big guy.  Nink and Jones have both been okay holding the edge against the run and you'd have Collins and either Mayo or Hightower behind them. 

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Any draftniks know anything about the safety Kanorris Davis on the PS? I read that he's a converted LB with 4.4-ish speed. Very small for a LB at 205, even for college, but seems like an interesting project.

     



    He was on the team the whole time. Do you mean know more than watching his this preseason? I don't know much of his college days.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    bB being exotic and changing where the Qb pressure will c ome from

    we have seen very little of Collins

     


    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

                      Nink  Kelly   VW   Jones  

          Mayo                Spikes              Hightower


    Dennard                                                      Talib

                    DMC                        Gregory

    Collins 1st guy to sub in LB core with Fletcher right behind him. Move Kelly to Nose and VW to DE, with Nink or Jones on the other side, and add Collins for a 3-4 look. Throw Hightower behind Nink or Jones for better run containment. Both Nink and Jones are actually pretty stout against the run imo. Looks like Chandler put on a few more pounds to help. I see a deep versatile LB core as a good problem to have.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers


    I think we may see that.  I think it's more a consequence of the talent then a premeditated change.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    They were in base personnel last year for only somwhere around 45% of the time and their non-base personnel is often only three DL or a single DT and three DEs. With a number of semi hybrid players (and yes I would put Spikes and Hightower into that mix) in the LB/DE group I am not sure they need more pure down linemen. They also still have Armstead who can come off NFI in six weeks.

    And I am sure they are not done yet with the final 53 let alone the PS.

    I was surprised that teams did not put in claims for some of the bigger named cuts like Ta'amu from Pitt and Austin from the Giants, but then I think if you claim off wavers you inherit the original contract and they were high enough draft picks to have $1M+ contracts attached. I would guess those players are in negotiations over the next few days to see how much they can get above minimum. And I would not be surprised if the Pats aren't at least talking to a few of them and maybe some of the vets with 4+ years who don't go through the waver process.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

                      Nink  Kelly   VW   Jones  

          Mayo                Spikes              Hightower


    Dennard                                                      Talib

                    DMC                        Gregory

    Collins 1st guy to sub in LB core with Fletcher right behind him. Move Kelly to Nose and VW to DE, with Nink or Jones on the other side, and add Collins for a 3-4 look. Throw Hightower behind Nink or Jones for better run containment. Both Nink and Jones are actually pretty stout against the run imo. Looks like Chandler put on a few more pounds to help. I see a deep versatile LB core as a good problem to have.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"



    This is certainly a formation I think we'll see, but without a proven third big DT to rotate with Wilfork and Kelly, you can't run it all the time.  I think Mia76 is on the right track when he points out they were in base only 45% of the time.  I'm thinking base becomes even rarer, with more formations that use only one big DT and emphasize 4 LBs instead.  This could result in a more dynamic front that will disguise who's rushing and who's covering very well. The fact that Spikes, Mayo, and Hightower are all good run stoppers might make this kind of front less risky, because our LBs are pretty good at shedding big blockers and getting to the RBs.   Not sure this is what BB is planning, but it may make sense given how thin the roster is in big linemen and how rich it is in LBs. 

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Any draftniks know anything about the safety Kanorris Davis on the PS? I read that he's a converted LB with 4.4-ish speed. Very small for a LB at 205, even for college, but seems like an interesting project.

     



    He was on the team the whole time. Do you mean know more than watching his this preseason? I don't know much of his college days.

     



    Sure does sound like a safety

    What we see in the beginning of the yr isn't what we will see at the end.

    BB uses the beginning of the season to figure out what he has and coach up players -think it why his Dec record is so good-the D gets better and better

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

                      Nink  Kelly   VW   Jones  

          Mayo                Spikes              Hightower


    Dennard                                                      Talib

                    DMC                        Gregory

    Collins 1st guy to sub in LB core with Fletcher right behind him. Move Kelly to Nose and VW to DE, with Nink or Jones on the other side, and add Collins for a 3-4 look. Throw Hightower behind Nink or Jones for better run containment. Both Nink and Jones are actually pretty stout against the run imo. Looks like Chandler put on a few more pounds to help. I see a deep versatile LB core as a good problem to have.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"



    This is certainly a formation I think we'll see, but without a proven third big DT to rotate with Wilfork and Kelly, you can't run it all the time.  I think Mia76 is on the right track when he points out they were in base only 45% of the time.  I'm thinking base becomes even rarer, with more formations that use only one big DT and emphasize 4 LBs instead.  This could result in a more dynamic front that will disguise who's rushing and who's covering very well. The fact that Spikes, Mayo, and Hightower are all good run stoppers might make this kind of front less risky, because our LBs are pretty good at shedding big blockers and getting to the RBs.   Not sure this is what BB is planning, but it may make sense given how thin the roster is in big linemen and how rich it is in LBs. 

     

     




    Last year they went with a smaller D-line on 3rd downs which is when they liked using Cunningham. It will be interesting to see if they use this strategy again this year and who that player is going to be.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    Any draftniks know anything about the safety Kanorris Davis on the PS? I read that he's a converted LB with 4.4-ish speed. Very small for a LB at 205, even for college, but seems like an interesting project.




    He ran a 4.6 - 4.65 at his pro day and measured in at 5'9". We have him listed at 5'10". I think he did run a 4.4 at one point in his life, but wasn't able to do it at any point during the draft scouting process. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

                      Nink  Kelly   VW   Jones  

          Mayo                Spikes              Hightower


    Dennard                                                      Talib

                    DMC                        Gregory

    Collins 1st guy to sub in LB core with Fletcher right behind him. Move Kelly to Nose and VW to DE, with Nink or Jones on the other side, and add Collins for a 3-4 look. Throw Hightower behind Nink or Jones for better run containment. Both Nink and Jones are actually pretty stout against the run imo. Looks like Chandler put on a few more pounds to help. I see a deep versatile LB core as a good problem to have.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"



    That's the formation that most makes sense to me when I think about it but then looking at the roster I'm not sure if the depth is there. Folk and Kelley are going to wear down really quick and why carry 7 LBs? I can understand having both Fletcher and Collins because Fletcher does have injury concerns and Collins is a rook but how does Tarp fit into that. He's a nice STer but this time around I think BB is putting way to much emphisis on ST's. We practically have a full ST squad specialist on the team right now

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

                      Nink  Kelly   VW   Jones  

          Mayo                Spikes              Hightower


    Dennard                                                      Talib

                    DMC                        Gregory

    Collins 1st guy to sub in LB core with Fletcher right behind him. Move Kelly to Nose and VW to DE, with Nink or Jones on the other side, and add Collins for a 3-4 look. Throw Hightower behind Nink or Jones for better run containment. Both Nink and Jones are actually pretty stout against the run imo. Looks like Chandler put on a few more pounds to help. I see a deep versatile LB core as a good problem to have.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"



    That's the formation that most makes sense to me when I think about it but then looking at the roster I'm not sure if the depth is there. Folk and Kelley are going to wear down really quick and why carry 7 LBs? I can understand having both Fletcher and Collins because Fletcher does have injury concerns and Collins is a rook but how does Tarp fit into that. He's a nice STer but this time around I think BB is putting way to much emphisis on ST's. We practically have a full ST squad specialist on the team right now

     

    [/QUOTE]

    As prolate says the sub defense runs prvelant in the pass heavy nfl. BB used a lot of 2-4-5 and 2-5-4 last year with only 2 true D linemen on the field. It's all situational football. Collins is the coverage LB with versatility every team looks for. ST is 1/3rd of football! No such thing as too much emphasis IMO.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     


    As prolate says the sub defense runs prvelant in the pass heavy nfl. BB used a lot of 2-4-5 and 2-5-4 last year with only 2 true D linemen on the field. It's all situational football. Collins is the coverage LB with versatility every team looks for. ST is 1/3rd of football! No such thing as too much emphasis IMO.

     



    Yeah that makes sense. I'm just looking at it in you don't take Wilfork or Jones off the field unless they need a rest. Nink and Kelly I think you can sub in and out if you want to 2-5 but for me it's hard to take either off the field. I mean Nink is a solid 5-10 sacks a year and for a team that struggled with pressure last year it's hard to take him off. The one good thing is that Hightower is big enough that he can play a DE and sometimes a DT when speed counts which is a great luxury imo. I love our front end talent and don't want to take them off if not need be but I'm concerned about the back end talent on the DL and giving the front line guys rest.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Our front seven includes:

    • Seven LBs on the 53-man roster: Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Collins, Fletcher, Beauharnais, White)
    • Three LBs on the practice squad: Davis, Davis, and Tarpinian
    • Four DEs on 53-man roster: Jones, Nink, Bequette, Buchanan 
    • No DEs on practice squad (yet)
    • Four DTs on 53-man roster: Wilfork, Kelly, Vellano, Francis
    • One DT on practice squad: Forsten

    We are very thin at (proven) DT, average at DE, and just loaded at LB.  

    Anybody else think BB may be using formations that put 4 LBs on the field most of the time?

    Any guesses on what we're going to do this year with this group?

     

     



    Some special teams players. 

    Collins and Hightower are occaisionally used as DEs too ... also, Spikes is rotating wih Collins who is better in coverage. 

    You need five for a 4-3 defense. Bill carried an extra couple in case. 

    You only need four DTs, btw, to run 43 as well. It's not a crisis. Look at how many DEs are on the roster ... does that mean they are going to run 4 DEs?? 

    I'm not worried, nor do I expect change over from the 4-3 under. 

    As things fill in, and the season winds on, those kids could even be replaced, or sent to the PS.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Making sense of the front seven: loads and loads of linebackers

    If you're going to run this smaller front you need bodies to rush the passer and drop back, no longer are we playing gaps but rather shooting them.  The defensive tackles have to be mobile, well conditioned to play no huddle offenses, but still able to do the impossible task assigned to them, beating the two or more players sent to stop you. Adding Francis and keeping Vellano means we keep the same amount of depth at DT that we did a year ago, we haven't shrunk necessarily.

    I like the addition of Francis because the possibility is there, unlike Love, Deaderick or even Fortson who we had years to look at, this kid is fresh.  You can't teach height, weight, mass, athleticism... it is what it is, you're not going to change the laws of the universe with coaching.

    White may get shuffled around the roster, cut and resigned over the course of the season along with other fringe players, they realize this is part of the business.  I project young players based off looking up, this defense, the depth chart, whether we run a 3/4 or how many linebackers we carry looks no different than 2001-2004, the only thing that has changed is situational football and league play in general.  The one constant with the league, is the need to play old school backyard brawl in the playoffs.

    We're carrying so many linebackers beause Spikes has a contract negotiation coming up.  As far as talent goes, this as good as it's been since those early 2000 teams. 

     

     
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