Mallet is a keeper...

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    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    Funny how a lot of people thought Mallett wouldn't be bringing the 6th overrall pick in exchange in trade from Cleveland. Looks like they were right.

     
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    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

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    Ya and the back up TE who coughed up the ball was cut after the game. Mallett played very well against Jaguars in pre-season. Let's break this down one more time;

    A. Tom Brady retires in 2 years = Mallett ain't going anywhere.

    B. Tom Brady plays 3 or 4 more years so Mallett's contract expires in 2 so do the math.

    C. Cassel is to Mallett as Mallett is to Cassel.

    D. Malletts trade value, whatever it is, is highest right now.

    E. Patriots simply must find a way to get back the 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for THIS draft.

    F. We need the picks before the draft.

    G. Teams that MAY want Mallett will want him BEFORE the draft.

    H. If this goes down it will be before, or during, the draft.

    As I have said many times, Brady is a short timer.

    The majority here have said my senility is kicking in.

    If the majority is correct then it makes no sense to allow Mallett to play out his deal.

     



    Why? With exception of Hern and maybe Cannon the Pats haven't been the best at drafting in the mid rounds. If you said a couple more into day 2 ok by why must they get back to the mid rounds? How often do we see mid rounders succeed? It's let catching lighting in a bottle most of the time.

     

     

    Now to the general topic at hand, of course the Pats would float that out. Regardless if they had planned on trading him or not saying you are looking to trade him only hurts you. If you show you want to keep him then you hold the cards if another team is trying to pry him away. No team in their right mind should every say in public they are actively seeking a trade or that a player isn't in their future plans unless they desperately need to get rid of him (cap space/troubled player) or they plan on cutting him the next day.

     




    It's elementary my dear Watson...

     

    It's actually something that has been preached here, I believe folks like Muzzwell preach at this alter.

    And that being, in a salary CAP era, you simply must rebuild through the draft.

    Free agents cost money.

    Rookies help your CAP while under their initial contracts.

    Your 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys are your "meat and potatoes" of your team.

    A record 75 underclassmen have declared for the 2013 draft.

    Mel Kiper, like em' or hate em' has stated there is going to be great value in the mid rounds, I would like in on that.

    Most "experts" agree that DT is deep so I really don't want to trade back if I don't have to.

    If Mallett can be leveraged to gain a few mid round picks then why not.

    I would actually be convinced that the Patriots themselves already know when Brady's time is up and a big clue (to me) would be if Mallett stays.

     




    Exactly.  Mallett was a 3rd rounder with value and huge up-side.  Why would we want to get rid of him?  Now, if some team blows us away with a huge offer, like an early first rounder, then maybe you have to make that deal.  No way that happens though.  I don't see the point of trading a low-cost, high-reward player like Mallett for a couple of mid-round picks.  We would still need to replace him somehow, and it would likely have to be with someone not nearly as talented.  I say keep him.

     

     




    Brady says he wants to play until 40. That's for starters. The market. It's thin.  Barkley and Geno Smith?  Ummm, no. I don't see either making it in the NFL.

     

    BB isn't dumb.   Making Mallett hard to get drives the price up on Lombardi.  BB isn't going to want one team bidding on Mallett.

    He didn't draft Mallett to have him watch Brady for 5 years.

     

    1. That's way too long and unfair to Mallett as a 1st rd talent.

    2. It makes no sense to sit on a chip if the market is ripe to cash in.

     

     

     

     




    Fair points, although I'm higher on Geno than you.  I agree that Barkley likely won't become a franchise QB.  I just think that Mallett is more valuable as a capable backup/possible successor than a couple of mid rount picks in this draft.  If someone throws out an offer of say an early 1st rounder or a 2nd & a 3rd, then heck yes.  You would have to jump all over that type of a deal.  I don't see anyone offering anything close to that for Mallett, though.  I think BB will get  offers like, for instance, an 4th & a 5th.  I'd keep Mallett before I'd trade him for that type of compensation, but that's just me.  Can Brady really play effectively until he's 40?  Can he stay on the field and healthy in that span?  I hope the answer is a resounding YES to both of those questions, but I think it is far from a certainty.  A capably backup with huge future upside is a very valable thing for NE at this stage of the game.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but my money is on NE keeping Mallett around.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    Ya and the back up TE who coughed up the ball was cut after the game. Mallett played very well against Jaguars in pre-season. Let's break this down one more time;

    A. Tom Brady retires in 2 years = Mallett ain't going anywhere.

    B. Tom Brady plays 3 or 4 more years so Mallett's contract expires in 2 so do the math.

    C. Cassel is to Mallett as Mallett is to Cassel.

    D. Malletts trade value, whatever it is, is highest right now.

    E. Patriots simply must find a way to get back the 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for THIS draft.

    F. We need the picks before the draft.

    G. Teams that MAY want Mallett will want him BEFORE the draft.

    H. If this goes down it will be before, or during, the draft.

    As I have said many times, Brady is a short timer.

    The majority here have said my senility is kicking in.

    If the majority is correct then it makes no sense to allow Mallett to play out his deal.

     



    Why? With exception of Hern and maybe Cannon the Pats haven't been the best at drafting in the mid rounds. If you said a couple more into day 2 ok by why must they get back to the mid rounds? How often do we see mid rounders succeed? It's let catching lighting in a bottle most of the time.

     

     

    Now to the general topic at hand, of course the Pats would float that out. Regardless if they had planned on trading him or not saying you are looking to trade him only hurts you. If you show you want to keep him then you hold the cards if another team is trying to pry him away. No team in their right mind should every say in public they are actively seeking a trade or that a player isn't in their future plans unless they desperately need to get rid of him (cap space/troubled player) or they plan on cutting him the next day.

     




    It's elementary my dear Watson...

     

    It's actually something that has been preached here, I believe folks like Muzzwell preach at this alter.

    And that being, in a salary CAP era, you simply must rebuild through the draft.

    Free agents cost money.

    Rookies help your CAP while under their initial contracts.

    Your 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys are your "meat and potatoes" of your team.

    A record 75 underclassmen have declared for the 2013 draft.

    Mel Kiper, like em' or hate em' has stated there is going to be great value in the mid rounds, I would like in on that.

    Most "experts" agree that DT is deep so I really don't want to trade back if I don't have to.

    If Mallett can be leveraged to gain a few mid round picks then why not.

    I would actually be convinced that the Patriots themselves already know when Brady's time is up and a big clue (to me) would be if Mallett stays.

     




    Exactly.  Mallett was a 3rd rounder with value and huge up-side.  Why would we want to get rid of him?  Now, if some team blows us away with a huge offer, like an early first rounder, then maybe you have to make that deal.  No way that happens though.  I don't see the point of trading a low-cost, high-reward player like Mallett for a couple of mid-round picks.  We would still need to replace him somehow, and it would likely have to be with someone not nearly as talented.  I say keep him.

     

     




    Brady says he wants to play until 40. That's for starters. The market. It's thin.  Barkley and Geno Smith?  Ummm, no. I don't see either making it in the NFL.

     

    BB isn't dumb.   Making Mallett hard to get drives the price up on Lombardi.  BB isn't going to want one team bidding on Mallett.

    He didn't draft Mallett to have him watch Brady for 5 years.

     

    1. That's way too long and unfair to Mallett as a 1st rd talent.

    2. It makes no sense to sit on a chip if the market is ripe to cash in.

     

     

     

     

     




     

    Fair points, although I'm higher on Geno than you.  I agree that Barkley likely won't become a franchise QB.  I just think that Mallett is more valuable as a capable backup/possible successor than a couple of mid rount picks in this draft.  If someone throws out an offer of say an early 1st rounder or a 2nd & a 3rd, then heck yes.  You would have to jump all over that type of a deal.  I don't see anyone offering anything close to that for Mallett, though.  I think BB will get  offers like, for instance, an 4th & a 5th.  I'd keep Mallett before I'd trade him for that type of compensation, but that's just me.  Can Brady really play effectively until he's 40?  Can he stay on the field and healthy in that span?  I hope the answer is a resounding YES to both of those questions, but I think it is far from a certainty.  A capably backup with huge future upside is a very valable thing for NE at this stage of the game.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but my money is on NE keeping Mallett around.

     



    If the offers are seriously as bad as a "4th or a 5th" which is outrageous, IMO, especially in such a thin market, then yes, you do sit on him for 1 more year.

     

    Here are the facts and the BBWs will hate this concept, but it's the truth:

    Brady is signed through 2014, so that means, his value on the market if you were to take offers for Brady, is right now or after 2013.   The cap does not go up until 2015.

    You have to look at the entire market. There is no doubt in my mind, that a 2 year trained (via BB and Brady), dirt cheap rookie cap priced Mallett who was a 1st rd talent, is a better investment with a 1st rd pick than Geno Smith or Matt Barkley.

    It's just not really debatable. Barkley or Smith in no way have the resumes Mallett did at Arkansas. Neither Smith or Barkley would be walking into a situation as cleanly as Mallett could. Mallett has been engrossed in the Pats offense evreryday for 2 years. It's the most complex in the league, so if it's a situation where he's going to an easier offense to run and just needs to play, he's ready to go.

    So, it's a decision of committing to Mallett past 2014, or dealing Mallett with his price at its highest it will ever be.

    Not sure what the QB crop is next year, but I doubt it's as thin as this year's. That means his market value will be far less after the 2013 season.

    Like I said, BB isn't dumb. He could be offered a 1st rd pick very easily or the deal that is rumored from Cleveland.  Keep in mind, the whole point to the swapping of 1st rd picks is the idea that Cleveland doesn't lose a 1st rd pick AND we're now hearing from Mayock that the 5th overall pick is the same as #25.

    Hmmm.

    Who knows more about the value on a draft board than BB or Lombardi?

    I agree that Brady is a question mark moving forward, especially if he just refuses to defer some throws to more runs and more overall balance across the offense.  It's been up to him how he's wanted to play in recent postseasons and it will be even more so in 2013.

    So, it's a matter of who is worth more? Brady? Or Mallett?  My ideal situation would be this:

    1. Trade Mallett for a 1st rd pick in 2013. Sign a cheap back up like Cassel.

    2. If not, win it all in 2013 with Brady, keeping Mallett as back up.

    3. Here it comes.....Trade Brady at his highest value after winning one last SB for a 1st and a 2nd rd pick. After 2013, Brady probably has 3 good Brady type years left and it will just matter what kind of team he's on overall for a chance for a ring.

    4. Turn to Mallett in 2014 and have another knockout draft in 2014.

    5. Cap goes up in 2015, give Mallett a new contract, assuming his 2014 proved to be a good one.

     

    Peyton Manning and Brady are going to be guys who think they can play forever, and the fact is, they can't.

     

     



    Agree with all of this for the most part, the only thing that may effect Mallett's value at this time is his lack of playing time. Sam Bradford was an NFL starter for 2 years when a first rounder was offered for him. It's a big MAY there but it is a positive for Lombardi it terms of negotiating a deal

    Are you really that confident on the success of Mallett? Before you say anything about me loving Brady it's not that, it's the kind of QB Mallett is. These really big guys with huge arms and accuracy problems are so hit and miss it worries me slightly but then again they made Cassel look like a quality starter and he's quite far from that

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    In response to danemcmenamin's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

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    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    Ya and the back up TE who coughed up the ball was cut after the game. Mallett played very well against Jaguars in pre-season. Let's break this down one more time;

    A. Tom Brady retires in 2 years = Mallett ain't going anywhere.

    B. Tom Brady plays 3 or 4 more years so Mallett's contract expires in 2 so do the math.

    C. Cassel is to Mallett as Mallett is to Cassel.

    D. Malletts trade value, whatever it is, is highest right now.

    E. Patriots simply must find a way to get back the 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for THIS draft.

    F. We need the picks before the draft.

    G. Teams that MAY want Mallett will want him BEFORE the draft.

    H. If this goes down it will be before, or during, the draft.

    As I have said many times, Brady is a short timer.

    The majority here have said my senility is kicking in.

    If the majority is correct then it makes no sense to allow Mallett to play out his deal.

     



    Why? With exception of Hern and maybe Cannon the Pats haven't been the best at drafting in the mid rounds. If you said a couple more into day 2 ok by why must they get back to the mid rounds? How often do we see mid rounders succeed? It's let catching lighting in a bottle most of the time.

     

     

    Now to the general topic at hand, of course the Pats would float that out. Regardless if they had planned on trading him or not saying you are looking to trade him only hurts you. If you show you want to keep him then you hold the cards if another team is trying to pry him away. No team in their right mind should every say in public they are actively seeking a trade or that a player isn't in their future plans unless they desperately need to get rid of him (cap space/troubled player) or they plan on cutting him the next day.

     




    It's elementary my dear Watson...

     

    It's actually something that has been preached here, I believe folks like Muzzwell preach at this alter.

    And that being, in a salary CAP era, you simply must rebuild through the draft.

    Free agents cost money.

    Rookies help your CAP while under their initial contracts.

    Your 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys are your "meat and potatoes" of your team.

    A record 75 underclassmen have declared for the 2013 draft.

    Mel Kiper, like em' or hate em' has stated there is going to be great value in the mid rounds, I would like in on that.

    Most "experts" agree that DT is deep so I really don't want to trade back if I don't have to.

    If Mallett can be leveraged to gain a few mid round picks then why not.

    I would actually be convinced that the Patriots themselves already know when Brady's time is up and a big clue (to me) would be if Mallett stays.

     




    Exactly.  Mallett was a 3rd rounder with value and huge up-side.  Why would we want to get rid of him?  Now, if some team blows us away with a huge offer, like an early first rounder, then maybe you have to make that deal.  No way that happens though.  I don't see the point of trading a low-cost, high-reward player like Mallett for a couple of mid-round picks.  We would still need to replace him somehow, and it would likely have to be with someone not nearly as talented.  I say keep him.

     

     




    Brady says he wants to play until 40. That's for starters. The market. It's thin.  Barkley and Geno Smith?  Ummm, no. I don't see either making it in the NFL.

     

    BB isn't dumb.   Making Mallett hard to get drives the price up on Lombardi.  BB isn't going to want one team bidding on Mallett.

    He didn't draft Mallett to have him watch Brady for 5 years.

     

    1. That's way too long and unfair to Mallett as a 1st rd talent.

    2. It makes no sense to sit on a chip if the market is ripe to cash in.

     

     

     

     

     




     

    Fair points, although I'm higher on Geno than you.  I agree that Barkley likely won't become a franchise QB.  I just think that Mallett is more valuable as a capable backup/possible successor than a couple of mid rount picks in this draft.  If someone throws out an offer of say an early 1st rounder or a 2nd & a 3rd, then heck yes.  You would have to jump all over that type of a deal.  I don't see anyone offering anything close to that for Mallett, though.  I think BB will get  offers like, for instance, an 4th & a 5th.  I'd keep Mallett before I'd trade him for that type of compensation, but that's just me.  Can Brady really play effectively until he's 40?  Can he stay on the field and healthy in that span?  I hope the answer is a resounding YES to both of those questions, but I think it is far from a certainty.  A capably backup with huge future upside is a very valable thing for NE at this stage of the game.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but my money is on NE keeping Mallett around.

     



    If the offers are seriously as bad as a "4th or a 5th" which is outrageous, IMO, especially in such a thin market, then yes, you do sit on him for 1 more year.

     

    Here are the facts and the BBWs will hate this concept, but it's the truth:

    Brady is signed through 2014, so that means, his value on the market if you were to take offers for Brady, is right now or after 2013.   The cap does not go up until 2015.

    You have to look at the entire market. There is no doubt in my mind, that a 2 year trained (via BB and Brady), dirt cheap rookie cap priced Mallett who was a 1st rd talent, is a better investment with a 1st rd pick than Geno Smith or Matt Barkley.

    It's just not really debatable. Barkley or Smith in no way have the resumes Mallett did at Arkansas. Neither Smith or Barkley would be walking into a situation as cleanly as Mallett could. Mallett has been engrossed in the Pats offense evreryday for 2 years. It's the most complex in the league, so if it's a situation where he's going to an easier offense to run and just needs to play, he's ready to go.

    So, it's a decision of committing to Mallett past 2014, or dealing Mallett with his price at its highest it will ever be.

    Not sure what the QB crop is next year, but I doubt it's as thin as this year's. That means his market value will be far less after the 2013 season.

    Like I said, BB isn't dumb. He could be offered a 1st rd pick very easily or the deal that is rumored from Cleveland.  Keep in mind, the whole point to the swapping of 1st rd picks is the idea that Cleveland doesn't lose a 1st rd pick AND we're now hearing from Mayock that the 5th overall pick is the same as #25.

    Hmmm.

    Who knows more about the value on a draft board than BB or Lombardi?

    I agree that Brady is a question mark moving forward, especially if he just refuses to defer some throws to more runs and more overall balance across the offense.  It's been up to him how he's wanted to play in recent postseasons and it will be even more so in 2013.

    So, it's a matter of who is worth more? Brady? Or Mallett?  My ideal situation would be this:

    1. Trade Mallett for a 1st rd pick in 2013. Sign a cheap back up like Cassel.

    2. If not, win it all in 2013 with Brady, keeping Mallett as back up.

    3. Here it comes.....Trade Brady at his highest value after winning one last SB for a 1st and a 2nd rd pick. After 2013, Brady probably has 3 good Brady type years left and it will just matter what kind of team he's on overall for a chance for a ring.

    4. Turn to Mallett in 2014 and have another knockout draft in 2014.

    5. Cap goes up in 2015, give Mallett a new contract, assuming his 2014 proved to be a good one.

     

    Peyton Manning and Brady are going to be guys who think they can play forever, and the fact is, they can't.

     

     

     



    Agree with all of this for the most part, the only thing that may effect Mallett's value at this time is his lack of playing time. Sam Bradford was an NFL starter for 2 years when a first rounder was offered for him. It's a big MAY there but it is a positive for Lombardi it terms of negotiating a deal

    Are you really that confident on the success of Mallett? Before you say anything about me loving Brady it's not that, it's the kind of QB Mallett is. These really big guys with huge arms and accuracy problems are so hit and miss it worries me slightly but then again they made Cassel look like a quality starter and he's quite far from that

     

     



    I would be confident that he's been training under BB and Brady for 2 years and has apparently matured personally and professionally which was the concern about him in the 1st rd in 2011.

     

    Who knows how a QB does, how he progressses, etc. I do think it's vital to have a good, stable O Line, a solid run game, etc, before investing in a young QB.  If a team that is interested in Mallett doesn't have their ducks in a row, then forget it.  

    But, yeah, I would MUCH rather have Mallett at his money in the 3rd rd for 2 more years at the QB position so the money is spent elsewhere in FA, etc, for TWO more years, before me seeing if I want to move on with Mallett in 2015 or beyond.

    Some people here simply don't get what's going on. The cap is basically flat for the next 2 years at 122 million. That's basically the same ceiling as it was in 2009!  If you look back at the cap structure from the previous CBA, it was laid out to the point that there were significant jumps every other year.

    The money matters. Brady at 22 million in 2013 matters.  Sanchez at 8 million and awful, matters.  It all matters.  It's basic ROI.

    Look at Cincy. They have a boatload to spend, got their QB in Rd 2 under a rookie cap situation, so it's put them in good cap position with leverage.   Maybe Dalton isn't SB contending QB level, but maybe he is?  But, Dalton's solid play, some growth, etc, puts them in a great spot because they have had some good drafts out of the lockout. Who would have think of all teams, Cincy, would have "gotten it" like BB gets it?  Well, they do.

    I also think the RG3, Kaepernick, run based kind of Vick QB is not a good QB for the future. It's one play away from disaster as we've seen.   So, someone like Mallett, who is big, but mobile with a great arm at his current price, is actually a bargain on the current market.

    Mallett had 'ittle/no accuracy problems at Arkansas, even though I get the pros isn't the NCAA. 

     


    I think these are musts also no first year starter is a gunslinger. 

    I also agree about running QBs, when one wins a championship that's when i'll believe they've changed the game. All things said about RG3 and Kaepernick were once said about Vick so I don't see how these guys will be so different.

    Basically i've come to the conclusion I want Mallett here but the only way I can see that happening is a) Brady injured or b) Brady collapsing into a shadow of his former self. The end of next year will be pivotal, I just can't see BB going with a figurehead at QB like the Broncos did with Elway so it'll be down to Brady, I want to see the old Brady shouting in people's faces and never giving up not just shouting about keeping going when the team has a lead. One of the most depressing things i've ever seen was Brady in that AFCC he moped around he had his head down the whole day. All in all it looked like he didn't care, i'm a huge Brady fan for the fact he's one of the greatest competitors i've ever seen in a sports arena, something was missing that day and if I ever see him like that again I don't want him to put on the shoulder pads again because the fire is gone

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from teegee. Show teegee's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    In response to danemcmenamin's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    Ya and the back up TE who coughed up the ball was cut after the game. Mallett played very well against Jaguars in pre-season. Let's break this down one more time;

    A. Tom Brady retires in 2 years = Mallett ain't going anywhere.

    B. Tom Brady plays 3 or 4 more years so Mallett's contract expires in 2 so do the math.

    C. Cassel is to Mallett as Mallett is to Cassel.

    D. Malletts trade value, whatever it is, is highest right now.

    E. Patriots simply must find a way to get back the 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for THIS draft.

    F. We need the picks before the draft.

    G. Teams that MAY want Mallett will want him BEFORE the draft.

    H. If this goes down it will be before, or during, the draft.

    As I have said many times, Brady is a short timer.

    The majority here have said my senility is kicking in.

    If the majority is correct then it makes no sense to allow Mallett to play out his deal.

     



    Why? With exception of Hern and maybe Cannon the Pats haven't been the best at drafting in the mid rounds. If you said a couple more into day 2 ok by why must they get back to the mid rounds? How often do we see mid rounders succeed? It's let catching lighting in a bottle most of the time.

     

     

    Now to the general topic at hand, of course the Pats would float that out. Regardless if they had planned on trading him or not saying you are looking to trade him only hurts you. If you show you want to keep him then you hold the cards if another team is trying to pry him away. No team in their right mind should every say in public they are actively seeking a trade or that a player isn't in their future plans unless they desperately need to get rid of him (cap space/troubled player) or they plan on cutting him the next day.

     




    It's elementary my dear Watson...

     

    It's actually something that has been preached here, I believe folks like Muzzwell preach at this alter.

    And that being, in a salary CAP era, you simply must rebuild through the draft.

    Free agents cost money.

    Rookies help your CAP while under their initial contracts.

    Your 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys are your "meat and potatoes" of your team.

    A record 75 underclassmen have declared for the 2013 draft.

    Mel Kiper, like em' or hate em' has stated there is going to be great value in the mid rounds, I would like in on that.

    Most "experts" agree that DT is deep so I really don't want to trade back if I don't have to.

    If Mallett can be leveraged to gain a few mid round picks then why not.

    I would actually be convinced that the Patriots themselves already know when Brady's time is up and a big clue (to me) would be if Mallett stays.

     




    Exactly.  Mallett was a 3rd rounder with value and huge up-side.  Why would we want to get rid of him?  Now, if some team blows us away with a huge offer, like an early first rounder, then maybe you have to make that deal.  No way that happens though.  I don't see the point of trading a low-cost, high-reward player like Mallett for a couple of mid-round picks.  We would still need to replace him somehow, and it would likely have to be with someone not nearly as talented.  I say keep him.

     

     




    Brady says he wants to play until 40. That's for starters. The market. It's thin.  Barkley and Geno Smith?  Ummm, no. I don't see either making it in the NFL.

     

    BB isn't dumb.   Making Mallett hard to get drives the price up on Lombardi.  BB isn't going to want one team bidding on Mallett.

    He didn't draft Mallett to have him watch Brady for 5 years.

     

    1. That's way too long and unfair to Mallett as a 1st rd talent.

    2. It makes no sense to sit on a chip if the market is ripe to cash in.

     

     

     

     

     




     

    Fair points, although I'm higher on Geno than you.  I agree that Barkley likely won't become a franchise QB.  I just think that Mallett is more valuable as a capable backup/possible successor than a couple of mid rount picks in this draft.  If someone throws out an offer of say an early 1st rounder or a 2nd & a 3rd, then heck yes.  You would have to jump all over that type of a deal.  I don't see anyone offering anything close to that for Mallett, though.  I think BB will get  offers like, for instance, an 4th & a 5th.  I'd keep Mallett before I'd trade him for that type of compensation, but that's just me.  Can Brady really play effectively until he's 40?  Can he stay on the field and healthy in that span?  I hope the answer is a resounding YES to both of those questions, but I think it is far from a certainty.  A capably backup with huge future upside is a very valable thing for NE at this stage of the game.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but my money is on NE keeping Mallett around.

     



    If the offers are seriously as bad as a "4th or a 5th" which is outrageous, IMO, especially in such a thin market, then yes, you do sit on him for 1 more year.

     

    Here are the facts and the BBWs will hate this concept, but it's the truth:

    Brady is signed through 2014, so that means, his value on the market if you were to take offers for Brady, is right now or after 2013.   The cap does not go up until 2015.

    You have to look at the entire market. There is no doubt in my mind, that a 2 year trained (via BB and Brady), dirt cheap rookie cap priced Mallett who was a 1st rd talent, is a better investment with a 1st rd pick than Geno Smith or Matt Barkley.

    It's just not really debatable. Barkley or Smith in no way have the resumes Mallett did at Arkansas. Neither Smith or Barkley would be walking into a situation as cleanly as Mallett could. Mallett has been engrossed in the Pats offense evreryday for 2 years. It's the most complex in the league, so if it's a situation where he's going to an easier offense to run and just needs to play, he's ready to go.

    So, it's a decision of committing to Mallett past 2014, or dealing Mallett with his price at its highest it will ever be.

    Not sure what the QB crop is next year, but I doubt it's as thin as this year's. That means his market value will be far less after the 2013 season.

    Like I said, BB isn't dumb. He could be offered a 1st rd pick very easily or the deal that is rumored from Cleveland.  Keep in mind, the whole point to the swapping of 1st rd picks is the idea that Cleveland doesn't lose a 1st rd pick AND we're now hearing from Mayock that the 5th overall pick is the same as #25.

    Hmmm.

    Who knows more about the value on a draft board than BB or Lombardi?

    I agree that Brady is a question mark moving forward, especially if he just refuses to defer some throws to more runs and more overall balance across the offense.  It's been up to him how he's wanted to play in recent postseasons and it will be even more so in 2013.

    So, it's a matter of who is worth more? Brady? Or Mallett?  My ideal situation would be this:

    1. Trade Mallett for a 1st rd pick in 2013. Sign a cheap back up like Cassel.

    2. If not, win it all in 2013 with Brady, keeping Mallett as back up.

    3. Here it comes.....Trade Brady at his highest value after winning one last SB for a 1st and a 2nd rd pick. After 2013, Brady probably has 3 good Brady type years left and it will just matter what kind of team he's on overall for a chance for a ring.

    4. Turn to Mallett in 2014 and have another knockout draft in 2014.

    5. Cap goes up in 2015, give Mallett a new contract, assuming his 2014 proved to be a good one.

     

    Peyton Manning and Brady are going to be guys who think they can play forever, and the fact is, they can't.

     

     

     



    Agree with all of this for the most part, the only thing that may effect Mallett's value at this time is his lack of playing time. Sam Bradford was an NFL starter for 2 years when a first rounder was offered for him. It's a big MAY there but it is a positive for Lombardi it terms of negotiating a deal

    Are you really that confident on the success of Mallett? Before you say anything about me loving Brady it's not that, it's the kind of QB Mallett is. These really big guys with huge arms and accuracy problems are so hit and miss it worries me slightly but then again they made Cassel look like a quality starter and he's quite far from that

     

     



    I would be confident that he's been training under BB and Brady for 2 years and has apparently matured personally and professionally which was the concern about him in the 1st rd in 2011.

     

    Who knows how a QB does, how he progressses, etc. I do think it's vital to have a good, stable O Line, a solid run game, etc, before investing in a young QB.  If a team that is interested in Mallett doesn't have their ducks in a row, then forget it.  

    But, yeah, I would MUCH rather have Mallett at his money in the 3rd rd for 2 more years at the QB position so the money is spent elsewhere in FA, etc, for TWO more years, before me seeing if I want to move on with Mallett in 2015 or beyond.

    Some people here simply don't get what's going on. The cap is basically flat for the next 2 years at 122 million. That's basically the same ceiling as it was in 2009!  If you look back at the cap structure from the previous CBA, it was laid out to the point that there were significant jumps every other year.

    The money matters. Brady at 22 million in 2013 matters.  Sanchez at 8 million and awful, matters.  It all matters.  It's basic ROI.

    Look at Cincy. They have a boatload to spend, got their QB in Rd 2 under a rookie cap situation, so it's put them in good cap position with leverage.   Maybe Dalton isn't SB contending QB level, but maybe he is?  But, Dalton's solid play, some growth, etc, puts them in a great spot because they have had some good drafts out of the lockout. Who would have think of all teams, Cincy, would have "gotten it" like BB gets it?  Well, they do.

    I also think the RG3, Kaepernick, run based kind of Vick QB is not a good QB for the future. It's one play away from disaster as we've seen.   So, someone like Mallett, who is big, but mobile with a great arm at his current price, is actually a bargain on the current market.

    Mallett had 'ittle/no accuracy problems at Arkansas, even though I get the pros isn't the NCAA. 

     

     I agree that Brady has a two year window. How much are you gonna pay someone who is closing in on 40? In a previous thread I posted how difficult it is to win as you age. Pats mo is to move on sooner rather than later. Perhaps Mallett could become a Rothleisberger clone. 

     

     




     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    Ya and the back up TE who coughed up the ball was cut after the game. Mallett played very well against Jaguars in pre-season. Let's break this down one more time;

    A. Tom Brady retires in 2 years = Mallett ain't going anywhere.

    B. Tom Brady plays 3 or 4 more years so Mallett's contract expires in 2 so do the math.

    C. Cassel is to Mallett as Mallett is to Cassel.

    D. Malletts trade value, whatever it is, is highest right now.

    E. Patriots simply must find a way to get back the 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for THIS draft.

    F. We need the picks before the draft.

    G. Teams that MAY want Mallett will want him BEFORE the draft.

    H. If this goes down it will be before, or during, the draft.

    As I have said many times, Brady is a short timer.

    The majority here have said my senility is kicking in.

    If the majority is correct then it makes no sense to allow Mallett to play out his deal.

     



    Why? With exception of Hern and maybe Cannon the Pats haven't been the best at drafting in the mid rounds. If you said a couple more into day 2 ok by why must they get back to the mid rounds? How often do we see mid rounders succeed? It's let catching lighting in a bottle most of the time.

     

     

    Now to the general topic at hand, of course the Pats would float that out. Regardless if they had planned on trading him or not saying you are looking to trade him only hurts you. If you show you want to keep him then you hold the cards if another team is trying to pry him away. No team in their right mind should every say in public they are actively seeking a trade or that a player isn't in their future plans unless they desperately need to get rid of him (cap space/troubled player) or they plan on cutting him the next day.

     




    It's elementary my dear Watson...

     

    It's actually something that has been preached here, I believe folks like Muzzwell preach at this alter.

    And that being, in a salary CAP era, you simply must rebuild through the draft.

    Free agents cost money.

    Rookies help your CAP while under their initial contracts.

    Your 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys are your "meat and potatoes" of your team.

    A record 75 underclassmen have declared for the 2013 draft.

    Mel Kiper, like em' or hate em' has stated there is going to be great value in the mid rounds, I would like in on that.

    Most "experts" agree that DT is deep so I really don't want to trade back if I don't have to.

    If Mallett can be leveraged to gain a few mid round picks then why not.

    I would actually be convinced that the Patriots themselves already know when Brady's time is up and a big clue (to me) would be if Mallett stays.

     




    Exactly.  Mallett was a 3rd rounder with value and huge up-side.  Why would we want to get rid of him?  Now, if some team blows us away with a huge offer, like an early first rounder, then maybe you have to make that deal.  No way that happens though.  I don't see the point of trading a low-cost, high-reward player like Mallett for a couple of mid-round picks.  We would still need to replace him somehow, and it would likely have to be with someone not nearly as talented.  I say keep him.

     

     




    Brady says he wants to play until 40. That's for starters. The market. It's thin.  Barkley and Geno Smith?  Ummm, no. I don't see either making it in the NFL.

     

    BB isn't dumb.   Making Mallett hard to get drives the price up on Lombardi.  BB isn't going to want one team bidding on Mallett.

    He didn't draft Mallett to have him watch Brady for 5 years.

     

    1. That's way too long and unfair to Mallett as a 1st rd talent.

    2. It makes no sense to sit on a chip if the market is ripe to cash in.

     

     

     

     

     




     

    Fair points, although I'm higher on Geno than you.  I agree that Barkley likely won't become a franchise QB.  I just think that Mallett is more valuable as a capable backup/possible successor than a couple of mid rount picks in this draft.  If someone throws out an offer of say an early 1st rounder or a 2nd & a 3rd, then heck yes.  You would have to jump all over that type of a deal.  I don't see anyone offering anything close to that for Mallett, though.  I think BB will get  offers like, for instance, an 4th & a 5th.  I'd keep Mallett before I'd trade him for that type of compensation, but that's just me.  Can Brady really play effectively until he's 40?  Can he stay on the field and healthy in that span?  I hope the answer is a resounding YES to both of those questions, but I think it is far from a certainty.  A capably backup with huge future upside is a very valable thing for NE at this stage of the game.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but my money is on NE keeping Mallett around.

     



    If the offers are seriously as bad as a "4th or a 5th" which is outrageous, IMO, especially in such a thin market, then yes, you do sit on him for 1 more year.

     

    Here are the facts and the BBWs will hate this concept, but it's the truth:

    Brady is signed through 2014, so that means, his value on the market if you were to take offers for Brady, is right now or after 2013.   The cap does not go up until 2015.

    You have to look at the entire market. There is no doubt in my mind, that a 2 year trained (via BB and Brady), dirt cheap rookie cap priced Mallett who was a 1st rd talent, is a better investment with a 1st rd pick than Geno Smith or Matt Barkley.

    It's just not really debatable. Barkley or Smith in no way have the resumes Mallett did at Arkansas. Neither Smith or Barkley would be walking into a situation as cleanly as Mallett could. Mallett has been engrossed in the Pats offense evreryday for 2 years. It's the most complex in the league, so if it's a situation where he's going to an easier offense to run and just needs to play, he's ready to go.

    So, it's a decision of committing to Mallett past 2014, or dealing Mallett with his price at its highest it will ever be.

    Not sure what the QB crop is next year, but I doubt it's as thin as this year's. That means his market value will be far less after the 2013 season.

    Like I said, BB isn't dumb. He could be offered a 1st rd pick very easily or the deal that is rumored from Cleveland.  Keep in mind, the whole point to the swapping of 1st rd picks is the idea that Cleveland doesn't lose a 1st rd pick AND we're now hearing from Mayock that the 5th overall pick is the same as #25.

    Hmmm.

    Who knows more about the value on a draft board than BB or Lombardi?

    I agree that Brady is a question mark moving forward, especially if he just refuses to defer some throws to more runs and more overall balance across the offense.  It's been up to him how he's wanted to play in recent postseasons and it will be even more so in 2013.

    So, it's a matter of who is worth more? Brady? Or Mallett?  My ideal situation would be this:

    1. Trade Mallett for a 1st rd pick in 2013. Sign a cheap back up like Cassel.

    2. If not, win it all in 2013 with Brady, keeping Mallett as back up.

    3. Here it comes.....Trade Brady at his highest value after winning one last SB for a 1st and a 2nd rd pick. After 2013, Brady probably has 3 good Brady type years left and it will just matter what kind of team he's on overall for a chance for a ring.

    4. Turn to Mallett in 2014 and have another knockout draft in 2014.

    5. Cap goes up in 2015, give Mallett a new contract, assuming his 2014 proved to be a good one.

     

    Peyton Manning and Brady are going to be guys who think they can play forever, and the fact is, they can't.

     

     




    Fair enough, Rusty.  I don't disagree with anything you said here, but I just don't believe that we will be offered a 1st rounder for Mallett.  It seems to me that teams have gotten a lot more careful about trading away early draft picks in recent years.  I think the days of duping dumb teams for future first rounders for aging players (Branch/Seymore) might be over.  Now, Mallett is by no means an aging player and I agree that he has a ton of upside, but his value is in the eye of the beholder.  Maybe you'll be right and some team will fall in love with him and offer us a 1st, but I kind of doubt it.  I think that at the end of the day, Cleveland will give Weeden one more year to prove himself.  It would be one hell of a bold move for Lombardi to walk in and give up on the team's 1st round pick after only 1 year, no matter how he felt about him coming out of college last year.  KC is another possible landing spot, but Reid may select Geno, or may trade a 3rd for Foles if he still likes his potential.  Someone will probably sign Alex Smith too (AZ)?  We won't trade him to the Jets.  Maybe Jaxonville, but I don't see them parting with the #2 pick for Mallett.  That would be a huge gamble for them after just drafting Gabbert in the Top 10 a couple years ago.  Buffalo?  Oakland?  It's hard to envision either of them parting with a 1st either.  Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't see anyong shelling out a 1st for Mallett.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    Yeah. It is rock solid they want Mallet long term. Because they wouldn't be pumping him up in the period before draft day to see if they get any trade bites, right?

     
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    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    What I've seen of Mallet so far is that he's got a big league arm, and he's stupid. Pretty much the same as they said he was in college. But then we really haven't seen much of him.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    I've said it before, I'll say it again...there is no way in hell Cleveland gives us the 6th overral selection for Mallett and our selection...none. Now Rusty, I offered you a bet that it wouldn't happen...you refused. The offer still stands - if we swap first round selections with Cleveland, in exchange for Mallett, I'll leave and never come back. If it doesn't happen, you leave and never come back. Simple.

    Lombardi would get absolutely roasted if he made this deal - we are talking about a kid that has not come close to starting an NFL game and who hasn't looked very good in preseason action either. If the first move Lombardi makes is this, it had better work brilliantly and it won't.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I've said it before, I'll say it again...there is no way in hell Cleveland gives us the 6th overral selection for Mallett and our selection...none. Now Rusty, I offered you a bet that it wouldn't happen...you refused. The offer still stands - if we swap first round selections with Cleveland, in exchange for Mallett, I'll leave and never come back. If it doesn't happen, you leave and never come back. Simple.

    Lombardi would get absolutely roasted if he made this deal - we are talking about a kid that has not come close to starting an NFL game and who hasn't looked very good in preseason action either. If the first move Lombardi makes is this, it had better work brilliantly and it won't.




    I have to agree here.  Lombardi's run at Cleveland would be over before it even got started if he traded a first for Mallett and it backfired.  At least if Weeden sucks this year, he's playing somone else's hand and he won't take much heat for it because it isn't "his guy."

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    I am not making a bet on what ifs.  All I am saying is how much it would make sense and how much Lombardi liked Mallett, now the GM in Cleveland.

    There are too many people here who let the media dictate their opinions. RG3 for example is not worth more than Ryan Mallett. The media made it seem like that because of poorly run teams desperate last year after reaching for who came after Luck, that the QBs taken after Luck were as good of an investment. Nope. They weren't.

    Yes, Lombardi trading back to #29 when the #5 is the same as #25 would end Lombadi's reign in Cleveland. lol. How does that make sense?  This would be the IDEAL time to trade back with the depth of this draft.

    I know Mt Hurl has a penchant for only understading cupcakes, but Wheatfarmer is making this uncomfortable.

    It's Lombardi's job to not be a moron and to read markets.  Pretending Weeden, a guy you don't like, wasting a year pretending you do, is why Cleveland has sucked for 20 years.

     

     

     

     



    Hey Man, I don't disagree that Mallett would be a huge upgrade for Cleveland over Weeden.  He would.  My whole point is that it would be a very bold move for Lombardi to pull the trigger on such a big move to acquire Mallett, and I'm betting that he won't have the balls to do it.  Hope this post didn't make you too "uncomfortable."  :)

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to danemcmenamin's comment:

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to danemcmenamin's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

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    Ya and the back up TE who coughed up the ball was cut after the game. Mallett played very well against Jaguars in pre-season. Let's break this down one more time;

    A. Tom Brady retires in 2 years = Mallett ain't going anywhere.

    B. Tom Brady plays 3 or 4 more years so Mallett's contract expires in 2 so do the math.

    C. Cassel is to Mallett as Mallett is to Cassel.

    D. Malletts trade value, whatever it is, is highest right now.

    E. Patriots simply must find a way to get back the 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for THIS draft.

    F. We need the picks before the draft.

    G. Teams that MAY want Mallett will want him BEFORE the draft.

    H. If this goes down it will be before, or during, the draft.

    As I have said many times, Brady is a short timer.

    The majority here have said my senility is kicking in.

    If the majority is correct then it makes no sense to allow Mallett to play out his deal.

     



    Why? With exception of Hern and maybe Cannon the Pats haven't been the best at drafting in the mid rounds. If you said a couple more into day 2 ok by why must they get back to the mid rounds? How often do we see mid rounders succeed? It's let catching lighting in a bottle most of the time.

     

     

    Now to the general topic at hand, of course the Pats would float that out. Regardless if they had planned on trading him or not saying you are looking to trade him only hurts you. If you show you want to keep him then you hold the cards if another team is trying to pry him away. No team in their right mind should every say in public they are actively seeking a trade or that a player isn't in their future plans unless they desperately need to get rid of him (cap space/troubled player) or they plan on cutting him the next day.

     




    It's elementary my dear Watson...

     

    It's actually something that has been preached here, I believe folks like Muzzwell preach at this alter.

    And that being, in a salary CAP era, you simply must rebuild through the draft.

    Free agents cost money.

    Rookies help your CAP while under their initial contracts.

    Your 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys are your "meat and potatoes" of your team.

    A record 75 underclassmen have declared for the 2013 draft.

    Mel Kiper, like em' or hate em' has stated there is going to be great value in the mid rounds, I would like in on that.

    Most "experts" agree that DT is deep so I really don't want to trade back if I don't have to.

    If Mallett can be leveraged to gain a few mid round picks then why not.

    I would actually be convinced that the Patriots themselves already know when Brady's time is up and a big clue (to me) would be if Mallett stays.

     




    Exactly.  Mallett was a 3rd rounder with value and huge up-side.  Why would we want to get rid of him?  Now, if some team blows us away with a huge offer, like an early first rounder, then maybe you have to make that deal.  No way that happens though.  I don't see the point of trading a low-cost, high-reward player like Mallett for a couple of mid-round picks.  We would still need to replace him somehow, and it would likely have to be with someone not nearly as talented.  I say keep him.

     

     




    Brady says he wants to play until 40. That's for starters. The market. It's thin.  Barkley and Geno Smith?  Ummm, no. I don't see either making it in the NFL.

     

    BB isn't dumb.   Making Mallett hard to get drives the price up on Lombardi.  BB isn't going to want one team bidding on Mallett.

    He didn't draft Mallett to have him watch Brady for 5 years.

     

    1. That's way too long and unfair to Mallett as a 1st rd talent.

    2. It makes no sense to sit on a chip if the market is ripe to cash in.

     

     

     

     

     




     

    Fair points, although I'm higher on Geno than you.  I agree that Barkley likely won't become a franchise QB.  I just think that Mallett is more valuable as a capable backup/possible successor than a couple of mid rount picks in this draft.  If someone throws out an offer of say an early 1st rounder or a 2nd & a 3rd, then heck yes.  You would have to jump all over that type of a deal.  I don't see anyone offering anything close to that for Mallett, though.  I think BB will get  offers like, for instance, an 4th & a 5th.  I'd keep Mallett before I'd trade him for that type of compensation, but that's just me.  Can Brady really play effectively until he's 40?  Can he stay on the field and healthy in that span?  I hope the answer is a resounding YES to both of those questions, but I think it is far from a certainty.  A capably backup with huge future upside is a very valable thing for NE at this stage of the game.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but my money is on NE keeping Mallett around.

     



    If the offers are seriously as bad as a "4th or a 5th" which is outrageous, IMO, especially in such a thin market, then yes, you do sit on him for 1 more year.

     

    Here are the facts and the BBWs will hate this concept, but it's the truth:

    Brady is signed through 2014, so that means, his value on the market if you were to take offers for Brady, is right now or after 2013.   The cap does not go up until 2015.

    You have to look at the entire market. There is no doubt in my mind, that a 2 year trained (via BB and Brady), dirt cheap rookie cap priced Mallett who was a 1st rd talent, is a better investment with a 1st rd pick than Geno Smith or Matt Barkley.

    It's just not really debatable. Barkley or Smith in no way have the resumes Mallett did at Arkansas. Neither Smith or Barkley would be walking into a situation as cleanly as Mallett could. Mallett has been engrossed in the Pats offense evreryday for 2 years. It's the most complex in the league, so if it's a situation where he's going to an easier offense to run and just needs to play, he's ready to go.

    So, it's a decision of committing to Mallett past 2014, or dealing Mallett with his price at its highest it will ever be.

    Not sure what the QB crop is next year, but I doubt it's as thin as this year's. That means his market value will be far less after the 2013 season.

    Like I said, BB isn't dumb. He could be offered a 1st rd pick very easily or the deal that is rumored from Cleveland.  Keep in mind, the whole point to the swapping of 1st rd picks is the idea that Cleveland doesn't lose a 1st rd pick AND we're now hearing from Mayock that the 5th overall pick is the same as #25.

    Hmmm.

    Who knows more about the value on a draft board than BB or Lombardi?

    I agree that Brady is a question mark moving forward, especially if he just refuses to defer some throws to more runs and more overall balance across the offense.  It's been up to him how he's wanted to play in recent postseasons and it will be even more so in 2013.

    So, it's a matter of who is worth more? Brady? Or Mallett?  My ideal situation would be this:

    1. Trade Mallett for a 1st rd pick in 2013. Sign a cheap back up like Cassel.

    2. If not, win it all in 2013 with Brady, keeping Mallett as back up.

    3. Here it comes.....Trade Brady at his highest value after winning one last SB for a 1st and a 2nd rd pick. After 2013, Brady probably has 3 good Brady type years left and it will just matter what kind of team he's on overall for a chance for a ring.

    4. Turn to Mallett in 2014 and have another knockout draft in 2014.

    5. Cap goes up in 2015, give Mallett a new contract, assuming his 2014 proved to be a good one.

     

    Peyton Manning and Brady are going to be guys who think they can play forever, and the fact is, they can't.

     

     

     



    Agree with all of this for the most part, the only thing that may effect Mallett's value at this time is his lack of playing time. Sam Bradford was an NFL starter for 2 years when a first rounder was offered for him. It's a big MAY there but it is a positive for Lombardi it terms of negotiating a deal

    Are you really that confident on the success of Mallett? Before you say anything about me loving Brady it's not that, it's the kind of QB Mallett is. These really big guys with huge arms and accuracy problems are so hit and miss it worries me slightly but then again they made Cassel look like a quality starter and he's quite far from that

     

     



    I would be confident that he's been training under BB and Brady for 2 years and has apparently matured personally and professionally which was the concern about him in the 1st rd in 2011.

     

    Who knows how a QB does, how he progressses, etc. I do think it's vital to have a good, stable O Line, a solid run game, etc, before investing in a young QB.  If a team that is interested in Mallett doesn't have their ducks in a row, then forget it.  

    But, yeah, I would MUCH rather have Mallett at his money in the 3rd rd for 2 more years at the QB position so the money is spent elsewhere in FA, etc, for TWO more years, before me seeing if I want to move on with Mallett in 2015 or beyond.

    Some people here simply don't get what's going on. The cap is basically flat for the next 2 years at 122 million. That's basically the same ceiling as it was in 2009!  If you look back at the cap structure from the previous CBA, it was laid out to the point that there were significant jumps every other year.

    The money matters. Brady at 22 million in 2013 matters.  Sanchez at 8 million and awful, matters.  It all matters.  It's basic ROI.

    Look at Cincy. They have a boatload to spend, got their QB in Rd 2 under a rookie cap situation, so it's put them in good cap position with leverage.   Maybe Dalton isn't SB contending QB level, but maybe he is?  But, Dalton's solid play, some growth, etc, puts them in a great spot because they have had some good drafts out of the lockout. Who would have think of all teams, Cincy, would have "gotten it" like BB gets it?  Well, they do.

    I also think the RG3, Kaepernick, run based kind of Vick QB is not a good QB for the future. It's one play away from disaster as we've seen.   So, someone like Mallett, who is big, but mobile with a great arm at his current price, is actually a bargain on the current market.

    Mallett had 'ittle/no accuracy problems at Arkansas, even though I get the pros isn't the NCAA. 

     

     

     


    I think these are musts also no first year starter is a gunslinger. 

    I also agree about running QBs, when one wins a championship that's when i'll believe they've changed the game. All things said about RG3 and Kaepernick were once said about Vick so I don't see how these guys will be so different.

    Basically i've come to the conclusion I want Mallett here but the only way I can see that happening is a) Brady injured or b) Brady collapsing into a shadow of his former self. The end of next year will be pivotal, I just can't see BB going with a figurehead at QB like the Broncos did with Elway so it'll be down to Brady, I want to see the old Brady shouting in people's faces and never giving up not just shouting about keeping going when the team has a lead. One of the most depressing things i've ever seen was Brady in that AFCC he moped around he had his head down the whole day. All in all it looked like he didn't care, i'm a huge Brady fan for the fact he's one of the greatest competitors i've ever seen in a sports arena, something was missing that day and if I ever see him like that again I don't want him to put on the shoulder pads again because the fire is gone




    what? elway won the sb the last two years of his career

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

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    Ya and the back up TE who coughed up the ball was cut after the game. Mallett played very well against Jaguars in pre-season. Let's break this down one more time;

    A. Tom Brady retires in 2 years = Mallett ain't going anywhere.

    B. Tom Brady plays 3 or 4 more years so Mallett's contract expires in 2 so do the math.

    C. Cassel is to Mallett as Mallett is to Cassel.

    D. Malletts trade value, whatever it is, is highest right now.

    E. Patriots simply must find a way to get back the 4th, 5th and 6th round picks for THIS draft.

    F. We need the picks before the draft.

    G. Teams that MAY want Mallett will want him BEFORE the draft.

    H. If this goes down it will be before, or during, the draft.

    As I have said many times, Brady is a short timer.

    The majority here have said my senility is kicking in.

    If the majority is correct then it makes no sense to allow Mallett to play out his deal.

     



    Why? With exception of Hern and maybe Cannon the Pats haven't been the best at drafting in the mid rounds. If you said a couple more into day 2 ok by why must they get back to the mid rounds? How often do we see mid rounders succeed? It's let catching lighting in a bottle most of the time.

     

     

    Now to the general topic at hand, of course the Pats would float that out. Regardless if they had planned on trading him or not saying you are looking to trade him only hurts you. If you show you want to keep him then you hold the cards if another team is trying to pry him away. No team in their right mind should every say in public they are actively seeking a trade or that a player isn't in their future plans unless they desperately need to get rid of him (cap space/troubled player) or they plan on cutting him the next day.

     




    It's elementary my dear Watson...

     

    It's actually something that has been preached here, I believe folks like Muzzwell preach at this alter.

    And that being, in a salary CAP era, you simply must rebuild through the draft.

    Free agents cost money.

    Rookies help your CAP while under their initial contracts.

    Your 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys are your "meat and potatoes" of your team.

    A record 75 underclassmen have declared for the 2013 draft.

    Mel Kiper, like em' or hate em' has stated there is going to be great value in the mid rounds, I would like in on that.

    Most "experts" agree that DT is deep so I really don't want to trade back if I don't have to.

    If Mallett can be leveraged to gain a few mid round picks then why not.

    I would actually be convinced that the Patriots themselves already know when Brady's time is up and a big clue (to me) would be if Mallett stays.

     




    Exactly.  Mallett was a 3rd rounder with value and huge up-side.  Why would we want to get rid of him?  Now, if some team blows us away with a huge offer, like an early first rounder, then maybe you have to make that deal.  No way that happens though.  I don't see the point of trading a low-cost, high-reward player like Mallett for a couple of mid-round picks.  We would still need to replace him somehow, and it would likely have to be with someone not nearly as talented.  I say keep him.

     

     




    Brady says he wants to play until 40. That's for starters. The market. It's thin.  Barkley and Geno Smith?  Ummm, no. I don't see either making it in the NFL.

     

    BB isn't dumb.   Making Mallett hard to get drives the price up on Lombardi.  BB isn't going to want one team bidding on Mallett.

    He didn't draft Mallett to have him watch Brady for 5 years.

     

    1. That's way too long and unfair to Mallett as a 1st rd talent.

    2. It makes no sense to sit on a chip if the market is ripe to cash in.

     

     

     

     

     




     

    Fair points, although I'm higher on Geno than you.  I agree that Barkley likely won't become a franchise QB.  I just think that Mallett is more valuable as a capable backup/possible successor than a couple of mid rount picks in this draft.  If someone throws out an offer of say an early 1st rounder or a 2nd & a 3rd, then heck yes.  You would have to jump all over that type of a deal.  I don't see anyone offering anything close to that for Mallett, though.  I think BB will get  offers like, for instance, an 4th & a 5th.  I'd keep Mallett before I'd trade him for that type of compensation, but that's just me.  Can Brady really play effectively until he's 40?  Can he stay on the field and healthy in that span?  I hope the answer is a resounding YES to both of those questions, but I think it is far from a certainty.  A capably backup with huge future upside is a very valable thing for NE at this stage of the game.  It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but my money is on NE keeping Mallett around.

     



    If the offers are seriously as bad as a "4th or a 5th" which is outrageous, IMO, especially in such a thin market, then yes, you do sit on him for 1 more year.

     

    Here are the facts and the BBWs will hate this concept, but it's the truth:

    Brady is signed through 2014, so that means, his value on the market if you were to take offers for Brady, is right now or after 2013.   The cap does not go up until 2015.

    You have to look at the entire market. There is no doubt in my mind, that a 2 year trained (via BB and Brady), dirt cheap rookie cap priced Mallett who was a 1st rd talent, is a better investment with a 1st rd pick than Geno Smith or Matt Barkley.

    It's just not really debatable. Barkley or Smith in no way have the resumes Mallett did at Arkansas. Neither Smith or Barkley would be walking into a situation as cleanly as Mallett could. Mallett has been engrossed in the Pats offense evreryday for 2 years. It's the most complex in the league, so if it's a situation where he's going to an easier offense to run and just needs to play, he's ready to go.

    So, it's a decision of committing to Mallett past 2014, or dealing Mallett with his price at its highest it will ever be.

    Not sure what the QB crop is next year, but I doubt it's as thin as this year's. That means his market value will be far less after the 2013 season.

    Like I said, BB isn't dumb. He could be offered a 1st rd pick very easily or the deal that is rumored from Cleveland.  Keep in mind, the whole point to the swapping of 1st rd picks is the idea that Cleveland doesn't lose a 1st rd pick AND we're now hearing from Mayock that the 5th overall pick is the same as #25.

    Hmmm.

    Who knows more about the value on a draft board than BB or Lombardi?

    I agree that Brady is a question mark moving forward, especially if he just refuses to defer some throws to more runs and more overall balance across the offense.  It's been up to him how he's wanted to play in recent postseasons and it will be even more so in 2013.

    So, it's a matter of who is worth more? Brady? Or Mallett?  My ideal situation would be this:

    1. Trade Mallett for a 1st rd pick in 2013. Sign a cheap back up like Cassel.

    2. If not, win it all in 2013 with Brady, keeping Mallett as back up.

    3. Here it comes.....Trade Brady at his highest value after winning one last SB for a 1st and a 2nd rd pick. After 2013, Brady probably has 3 good Brady type years left and it will just matter what kind of team he's on overall for a chance for a ring.

    4. Turn to Mallett in 2014 and have another knockout draft in 2014.

    5. Cap goes up in 2015, give Mallett a new contract, assuming his 2014 proved to be a good one.

     

    Peyton Manning and Brady are going to be guys who think they can play forever, and the fact is, they can't.

     

     

     



    Agree with all of this for the most part, the only thing that may effect Mallett's value at this time is his lack of playing time. Sam Bradford was an NFL starter for 2 years when a first rounder was offered for him. It's a big MAY there but it is a positive for Lombardi it terms of negotiating a deal

    Are you really that confident on the success of Mallett? Before you say anything about me loving Brady it's not that, it's the kind of QB Mallett is. These really big guys with huge arms and accuracy problems are so hit and miss it worries me slightly but then again they made Cassel look like a quality starter and he's quite far from that

     

     



    I would be confident that he's been training under BB and Brady for 2 years and has apparently matured personally and professionally which was the concern about him in the 1st rd in 2011.

     

    Who knows how a QB does, how he progressses, etc. I do think it's vital to have a good, stable O Line, a solid run game, etc, before investing in a young QB.  If a team that is interested in Mallett doesn't have their ducks in a row, then forget it.  

    But, yeah, I would MUCH rather have Mallett at his money in the 3rd rd for 2 more years at the QB position so the money is spent elsewhere in FA, etc, for TWO more years, before me seeing if I want to move on with Mallett in 2015 or beyond.

    Some people here simply don't get what's going on. The cap is basically flat for the next 2 years at 122 million. That's basically the same ceiling as it was in 2009!  If you look back at the cap structure from the previous CBA, it was laid out to the point that there were significant jumps every other year.

    The money matters. Brady at 22 million in 2013 matters.  Sanchez at 8 million and awful, matters.  It all matters.  It's basic ROI.

    Look at Cincy. They have a boatload to spend, got their QB in Rd 2 under a rookie cap situation, so it's put them in good cap position with leverage.   Maybe Dalton isn't SB contending QB level, but maybe he is?  But, Dalton's solid play, some growth, etc, puts them in a great spot because they have had some good drafts out of the lockout. Who would have think of all teams, Cincy, would have "gotten it" like BB gets it?  Well, they do.

    I also think the RG3, Kaepernick, run based kind of Vick QB is not a good QB for the future. It's one play away from disaster as we've seen.   So, someone like Mallett, who is big, but mobile with a great arm at his current price, is actually a bargain on the current market.

    Mallett had 'ittle/no accuracy problems at Arkansas, even though I get the pros isn't the NCAA. 

     

     

     


    I think these are musts also no first year starter is a gunslinger. 

    I also agree about running QBs, when one wins a championship that's when i'll believe they've changed the game. All things said about RG3 and Kaepernick were once said about Vick so I don't see how these guys will be so different.

    Basically i've come to the conclusion I want Mallett here but the only way I can see that happening is a) Brady injured or b) Brady collapsing into a shadow of his former self. The end of next year will be pivotal, I just can't see BB going with a figurehead at QB like the Broncos did with Elway so it'll be down to Brady, I want to see the old Brady shouting in people's faces and never giving up not just shouting about keeping going when the team has a lead. One of the most depressing things i've ever seen was Brady in that AFCC he moped around he had his head down the whole day. All in all it looked like he didn't care, i'm a huge Brady fan for the fact he's one of the greatest competitors i've ever seen in a sports arena, something was missing that day and if I ever see him like that again I don't want him to put on the shoulder pads again because the fire is gone

     




    what? elway won the sb the last two years of his career

     



    Yeah man and he was a figurehead to hand the ball off to Terrell Davis and watch him run, Bubby Brister was a better QB in 1998 than Elway and yet they stuck with Elway because of what he meant to the team

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    All you have to do is look at Farve and Montana for similar situations - iconic QBs nearing the end of their careers with quality back-ups getting little action as they played out their rookie deals. As I remember Young actually got a few games because of injury, but Rogers never did. Brady will probably get an extension, but whether he can actually perform well at 39 and 40 is something we will not know until we get there. If Mallet never plays in the next two years, he stock is not going too be any higher than it is now and his next contract is not likely to be a block buster, so if the Pats really like him as the heir, they would be able to afford him.

    I have no idea if Mallet is in the same league as Young or Rogers (and neither does anyone else) but if the Pats do really like him, then they will keep him unless they are getting very high value for him. The only indication we have is that the Pats only kept him as Brady's back-up last year so they felt they could survive with him if Brady went down.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    I am not making a bet on what ifs.  All I am saying is how much it would make sense and how much Lombardi liked Mallett, now the GM in Cleveland.

    There are too many people here who let the media dictate their opinions. RG3 for example is not worth more than Ryan Mallett. The media made it seem like that because of poorly run teams desperate last year after reaching for who came after Luck, that the QBs taken after Luck were as good of an investment. Nope. They weren't.

    Yes, Lombardi trading back to #29 when the #5 is the same as #25 would end Lombadi's reign in Cleveland. lol. How does that make sense?  This would be the IDEAL time to trade back with the depth of this draft.

    I know Mt Hurl has a penchant for only understading cupcakes, but Wheatfarmer is making this uncomfortable.

    It's Lombardi's job to not be a moron and to read markets.  Pretending Weeden, a guy you don't like, wasting a year pretending you do, is why Cleveland has sucked for 20 years.

     

     

     

     

     



    Hey Man, I don't disagree that Mallett would be a huge upgrade for Cleveland over Weeden.  He would.  My whole point is that it would be a very bold move for Lombardi to pull the trigger on such a big move to acquire Mallett, and I'm betting that he won't have the balls to do it.  Hope this post didn't make you too "uncomfortable."  :)

     

     



    Why is it bold?  I am just asking you to lay out a case that makes it bold. 

     

    If pick 5-25 is the same talent in Rd 1, that's per Mike Mayock ("This is NOT the year to have a 1st rd pick", and Todd McShay just said this morning that neither Barkley and Smith are 1st rd talents, wouldn't that mean that Mallett has MORE value in this market if Cleveland is picking 6th?

    Yes, it would, because Mallett was mid 1st rd projected in 2011's draft.  Throw in the idea that Lombardi has a direct B-Line relationship with BB and knows all he wants about Mallett's progression in NE, why are you so convinced of the scenario being so impossible?

    So, Cleveland, would save MONEY, TWICE. Once, by getting their QB (factually, Lombardi loved Mallett in 2011), possibly then dealing Weeden to a team for a 3rd rder, for example, and not losing their own 1st rd pick.

    Again, you seem to be not realizing that if Cleveland is looking to save cash, trade back in a draft you want to trade back in, and still not lose a 1st rd pick while getting a QB their GM really likes, it's a win/win for them.

    The top 10 pick in this year's draft does not have the value it usually has.

     

     



    Yeah Rusty you know the facts that the general people's of Cleveland may not know and that makes all the difference. If your new GM goes and trades away a top 10 pick for a QB who's barely seen an NFL field it's a bold move, when you know the facts it seems like a much better move than claming either of those first round QBs this year. If Lombardi goes through with it though and Mallett doesn't work out people will be crying that they didn't take one of the draftees  from the top 10 that will inevitably be playing well. The way I see it is that getting Mallett is their best bet at worst they're back in the top 10 next year (where they permenantly reside) I just don't see the public seeing it that way

     

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    In response to danemcmenamin's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    I am not making a bet on what ifs.  All I am saying is how much it would make sense and how much Lombardi liked Mallett, now the GM in Cleveland.

    There are too many people here who let the media dictate their opinions. RG3 for example is not worth more than Ryan Mallett. The media made it seem like that because of poorly run teams desperate last year after reaching for who came after Luck, that the QBs taken after Luck were as good of an investment. Nope. They weren't.

    Yes, Lombardi trading back to #29 when the #5 is the same as #25 would end Lombadi's reign in Cleveland. lol. How does that make sense?  This would be the IDEAL time to trade back with the depth of this draft.

    I know Mt Hurl has a penchant for only understading cupcakes, but Wheatfarmer is making this uncomfortable.

    It's Lombardi's job to not be a moron and to read markets.  Pretending Weeden, a guy you don't like, wasting a year pretending you do, is why Cleveland has sucked for 20 years.

     

     

     

     

     



    Hey Man, I don't disagree that Mallett would be a huge upgrade for Cleveland over Weeden.  He would.  My whole point is that it would be a very bold move for Lombardi to pull the trigger on such a big move to acquire Mallett, and I'm betting that he won't have the balls to do it.  Hope this post didn't make you too "uncomfortable."  :)

     

     



    Why is it bold?  I am just asking you to lay out a case that makes it bold. 

     

    If pick 5-25 is the same talent in Rd 1, that's per Mike Mayock ("This is NOT the year to have a 1st rd pick", and Todd McShay just said this morning that neither Barkley and Smith are 1st rd talents, wouldn't that mean that Mallett has MORE value in this market if Cleveland is picking 6th?

    Yes, it would, because Mallett was mid 1st rd projected in 2011's draft.  Throw in the idea that Lombardi has a direct B-Line relationship with BB and knows all he wants about Mallett's progression in NE, why are you so convinced of the scenario being so impossible?

    So, Cleveland, would save MONEY, TWICE. Once, by getting their QB (factually, Lombardi loved Mallett in 2011), possibly then dealing Weeden to a team for a 3rd rder, for example, and not losing their own 1st rd pick.

    Again, you seem to be not realizing that if Cleveland is looking to save cash, trade back in a draft you want to trade back in, and still not lose a 1st rd pick while getting a QB their GM really likes, it's a win/win for them.

    The top 10 pick in this year's draft does not have the value it usually has.

     

     



    Yeah Rusty you know the facts that the general people's of Cleveland may not know and that makes all the difference. 

     

     




    Are you saying Lombardi is concerned about the general fan reaction/perception of such a move?

     

    That's what he shouldn't be concerned with.  No GM should be concerned with that.  Those are the ones that fail.

    Look at the Jets. 



    He shouldn't but if he doesn't make the deal you can be sure that this is why, look i agree it's a get move for them. Does Lombardi have the stones to pull the trigger though, that's the big question

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to danemcmenamin's comment:

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    I am not making a bet on what ifs.  All I am saying is how much it would make sense and how much Lombardi liked Mallett, now the GM in Cleveland.

    There are too many people here who let the media dictate their opinions. RG3 for example is not worth more than Ryan Mallett. The media made it seem like that because of poorly run teams desperate last year after reaching for who came after Luck, that the QBs taken after Luck were as good of an investment. Nope. They weren't.

    Yes, Lombardi trading back to #29 when the #5 is the same as #25 would end Lombadi's reign in Cleveland. lol. How does that make sense?  This would be the IDEAL time to trade back with the depth of this draft.

    I know Mt Hurl has a penchant for only understading cupcakes, but Wheatfarmer is making this uncomfortable.

    It's Lombardi's job to not be a moron and to read markets.  Pretending Weeden, a guy you don't like, wasting a year pretending you do, is why Cleveland has sucked for 20 years.

     

     

     

     

     



    Hey Man, I don't disagree that Mallett would be a huge upgrade for Cleveland over Weeden.  He would.  My whole point is that it would be a very bold move for Lombardi to pull the trigger on such a big move to acquire Mallett, and I'm betting that he won't have the balls to do it.  Hope this post didn't make you too "uncomfortable."  :)

     

     



    Why is it bold?  I am just asking you to lay out a case that makes it bold. 

     

    If pick 5-25 is the same talent in Rd 1, that's per Mike Mayock ("This is NOT the year to have a 1st rd pick", and Todd McShay just said this morning that neither Barkley and Smith are 1st rd talents, wouldn't that mean that Mallett has MORE value in this market if Cleveland is picking 6th?

    Yes, it would, because Mallett was mid 1st rd projected in 2011's draft.  Throw in the idea that Lombardi has a direct B-Line relationship with BB and knows all he wants about Mallett's progression in NE, why are you so convinced of the scenario being so impossible?

    So, Cleveland, would save MONEY, TWICE. Once, by getting their QB (factually, Lombardi loved Mallett in 2011), possibly then dealing Weeden to a team for a 3rd rder, for example, and not losing their own 1st rd pick.

    Again, you seem to be not realizing that if Cleveland is looking to save cash, trade back in a draft you want to trade back in, and still not lose a 1st rd pick while getting a QB their GM really likes, it's a win/win for them.

    The top 10 pick in this year's draft does not have the value it usually has.

     

     



    Yeah Rusty you know the facts that the general people's of Cleveland may not know and that makes all the difference. If your new GM goes and trades away a top 10 pick for a QB who's barely seen an NFL field it's a bold move, when you know the facts it seems like a much better move than claming either of those first round QBs this year. If Lombardi goes through with it though and Mallett doesn't work out people will be crying that they didn't take one of the draftees  from the top 10 that will inevitably be playing well. The way I see it is that getting Mallett is their best bet at worst they're back in the top 10 next year (where they permenantly reside) I just don't see the public seeing it that way

     



    Ahhhhhh......I hate to tell you this but it ain't no guarantee that the 6th overall pick is a lock to work out either. Man drafting would be a walk in the park if all your picks worked out.

    Here's another tidbit, every single QB in this years Draft is a risk, a big risk.... 

     

     

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