Mallet is a keeper...

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    The biggest risk in the draft, by far, are QBs...hands down. However every pick is a crap shoot.

    Here are the Patriots entire 1st round selections.

    Holy sxxt...1982 to 1986 what a complete and total disaster....

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_England_Patriots_first-round_draft_picks

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    I am not making a bet on what ifs.  All I am saying is how much it would make sense and how much Lombardi liked Mallett, now the GM in Cleveland.

    There are too many people here who let the media dictate their opinions. RG3 for example is not worth more than Ryan Mallett. The media made it seem like that because of poorly run teams desperate last year after reaching for who came after Luck, that the QBs taken after Luck were as good of an investment. Nope. They weren't.

    Yes, Lombardi trading back to #29 when the #5 is the same as #25 would end Lombadi's reign in Cleveland. lol. How does that make sense?  This would be the IDEAL time to trade back with the depth of this draft.

    I know Mt Hurl has a penchant for only understading cupcakes, but Wheatfarmer is making this uncomfortable.

    It's Lombardi's job to not be a moron and to read markets.  Pretending Weeden, a guy you don't like, wasting a year pretending you do, is why Cleveland has sucked for 20 years.

     

     

     

     



    RG3 for example is not worth more than Ryan Mallett.     <<<<This is classic rusty! Now he will back pedal on this, he will distort it, blame reading comprehension and in a couple of months he will deny ever saying it. Instant  Classic.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    In response to danemcmenamin's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    I am not making a bet on what ifs.  All I am saying is how much it would make sense and how much Lombardi liked Mallett, now the GM in Cleveland.

    There are too many people here who let the media dictate their opinions. RG3 for example is not worth more than Ryan Mallett. The media made it seem like that because of poorly run teams desperate last year after reaching for who came after Luck, that the QBs taken after Luck were as good of an investment. Nope. They weren't.

    Yes, Lombardi trading back to #29 when the #5 is the same as #25 would end Lombadi's reign in Cleveland. lol. How does that make sense?  This would be the IDEAL time to trade back with the depth of this draft.

    I know Mt Hurl has a penchant for only understading cupcakes, but Wheatfarmer is making this uncomfortable.

    It's Lombardi's job to not be a moron and to read markets.  Pretending Weeden, a guy you don't like, wasting a year pretending you do, is why Cleveland has sucked for 20 years.

     

     

     

     

     



    Hey Man, I don't disagree that Mallett would be a huge upgrade for Cleveland over Weeden.  He would.  My whole point is that it would be a very bold move for Lombardi to pull the trigger on such a big move to acquire Mallett, and I'm betting that he won't have the balls to do it.  Hope this post didn't make you too "uncomfortable."  :)

     

     



    Why is it bold?  I am just asking you to lay out a case that makes it bold. 

     

    If pick 5-25 is the same talent in Rd 1, that's per Mike Mayock ("This is NOT the year to have a 1st rd pick", and Todd McShay just said this morning that neither Barkley and Smith are 1st rd talents, wouldn't that mean that Mallett has MORE value in this market if Cleveland is picking 6th?

    Yes, it would, because Mallett was mid 1st rd projected in 2011's draft.  Throw in the idea that Lombardi has a direct B-Line relationship with BB and knows all he wants about Mallett's progression in NE, why are you so convinced of the scenario being so impossible?

    So, Cleveland, would save MONEY, TWICE. Once, by getting their QB (factually, Lombardi loved Mallett in 2011), possibly then dealing Weeden to a team for a 3rd rder, for example, and not losing their own 1st rd pick.

    Again, you seem to be not realizing that if Cleveland is looking to save cash, trade back in a draft you want to trade back in, and still not lose a 1st rd pick while getting a QB their GM really likes, it's a win/win for them.

    The top 10 pick in this year's draft does not have the value it usually has.

     

     



    Yeah Rusty you know the facts that the general people's of Cleveland may not know and that makes all the difference. If your new GM goes and trades away a top 10 pick for a QB who's barely seen an NFL field it's a bold move, when you know the facts it seems like a much better move than claming either of those first round QBs this year. If Lombardi goes through with it though and Mallett doesn't work out people will be crying that they didn't take one of the draftees  from the top 10 that will inevitably be playing well. The way I see it is that getting Mallett is their best bet at worst they're back in the top 10 next year (where they permenantly reside) I just don't see the public seeing it that way

     

     



    Ahhhhhh......I hate to tell you this but it ain't no guarantee that the 6th overall pick is a lock to work out either. Man drafting would be a walk in the park if all your picks worked out.

     

    Here's another tidbit, every single QB in this years Draft is a risk, a big risk.... 

     



    Yeah man that's about the only truth in the Draft that you really have almost no idea what you're getting. Absolutely agree, however with the no.6 pick Cleveland have a shot at anyone in the top 20 therefore should they take Mallett and he doesn't work out then it'll have looked like a very bad job by Lombardi because although the draft is unpredictable there will be great players in that top 20. Imagine it'll be one of those things you hear about on down the line " remember when lombardi traded for that bust Mallett when he could have had (insert name here)" I don't see the back lash being as bad in drafting a draft bust at least that way you have a few years before that can be said one way or another

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    In response to WazzuWheatfarmer's comment:

     

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

     

    I am not making a bet on what ifs.  All I am saying is how much it would make sense and how much Lombardi liked Mallett, now the GM in Cleveland.

    There are too many people here who let the media dictate their opinions. RG3 for example is not worth more than Ryan Mallett. The media made it seem like that because of poorly run teams desperate last year after reaching for who came after Luck, that the QBs taken after Luck were as good of an investment. Nope. They weren't.

    Yes, Lombardi trading back to #29 when the #5 is the same as #25 would end Lombadi's reign in Cleveland. lol. How does that make sense?  This would be the IDEAL time to trade back with the depth of this draft.

    I know Mt Hurl has a penchant for only understading cupcakes, but Wheatfarmer is making this uncomfortable.

    It's Lombardi's job to not be a moron and to read markets.  Pretending Weeden, a guy you don't like, wasting a year pretending you do, is why Cleveland has sucked for 20 years.

     

     

     

     

     



    Hey Man, I don't disagree that Mallett would be a huge upgrade for Cleveland over Weeden.  He would.  My whole point is that it would be a very bold move for Lombardi to pull the trigger on such a big move to acquire Mallett, and I'm betting that he won't have the balls to do it.  Hope this post didn't make you too "uncomfortable."  :)

     

     



    Why is it bold?  I am just asking you to lay out a case that makes it bold. 

     

    If pick 5-25 is the same talent in Rd 1, that's per Mike Mayock ("This is NOT the year to have a 1st rd pick"), and Todd McShay just said this morning that neither Barkley and Smith are 1st rd talents, wouldn't that mean that Mallett has MORE value in this market if Cleveland is picking 6th?

    Yes, it would, because Mallett was mid 1st rd projected in 2011's draft.  Throw in the idea that Lombardi has a direct B-Line relationship with BB and knows all he wants about Mallett's progression in NE, why are you so convinced of the scenario being so impossible?

    So, Cleveland, would save MONEY, TWICE. Once, by getting their QB (factually, Lombardi loved Mallett in 2011), possibly then dealing Weeden to a team for a 3rd rder, for example, and not losing their own 1st rd pick.

    Again, you seem to be not realizing that if Cleveland is looking to save cash, trade back in a draft you want to trade back in, and still not lose a 1st rd pick while getting a QB their GM really likes, it's a win/win for them.

    The top 10 pick in this year's draft does not have the value it usually has.

     




    C'mon Man.  Anytime you give up on a 1st round QB after 1 year to trade for a backup, it's certainly a bold move.  Even if you didn't draft the QB, and no matter how talented the backup may be, still a very bold move.  Would it be the right move for Cleveland?  Probably.  I agree with you.  I'd take Mallett over Weeden right now.  However, these are the kinds of moves that get GMs fired if they don't work out.  There is certanly no guarantee that Mallett would work out in Cleveland.  It would be a huge gamble by Lombardi, one that I don't think he will take.

    Also, I agree that the consensus is that there isn't much difference in talent between the early & late 1st rounders this year.  If BB sees it this way, why would he give up a valuable chip in Mallett to move up to #6 and get similar talent to that of which he could have gotten at #29?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stegall85. Show stegall85's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    At this point Mallet would seem a lower risk than drafting a rookie. He's got the size and arm that NFL GM's want, the character concerns, that always seemed a little overblown with Mallet, are likely gone.

    The issue is his mental ability and that really hasn't been tested in game action. Neither has any college QB.

    However, the lack of even garbage time film could be something of a drag on his value and it would have been nice if BB had an extra mid-round pick or two in his pocket as a possible throw in to get a deal done.

    Hypothetically, if Cleveland offers the rumored trade but wants NE's 3rd thrown in do you still make the deal?

    I have no idea what will happen but if BB does plan to try to trade Mallet then a possible re-worked deal for Brady, to a more cap friendly situation, becomes more timing sensitive. If they make that type of move with Brady pre-draft, then it makes it look like Mallet is not in the long term plans.

    This is shaping up as a potentially very interesting off-season.

     

     

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to stegall85's comment:

    At this point Mallet would seem a lower risk than drafting a rookie. He's got the size and arm that NFL GM's want, the character concerns, that always seemed a little overblown with Mallet, are likely gone.

    The issue is his mental ability and that really hasn't been tested in game action. Neither has any college QB.

    However, the lack of even garbage time film could be something of a drag on his value and it would have been nice if BB had an extra mid-round pick or two in his pocket as a possible throw in to get a deal done.

    Hypothetically, if Cleveland offers the rumored trade but wants NE's 3rd thrown in do you still make the deal?

    I have no idea what will happen but if BB does plan to try to trade Mallet then a possible re-worked deal for Brady, to a more cap friendly situation, becomes more timing sensitive. If they make that type of move with Brady pre-draft, then it makes it look like Mallet is not in the long term plans.

    This is shaping up as a potentially very interesting off-season.

     

     




    Well that the question, what is Mallett worth in terms of value in relationship to the value chart the GMs use.

    I think, most "experts" agree that Mallett had a legit pedigree and was a legit first rounder before the rumours dropped him to the 3rd.

    Now that doesn't mean he is still perceived that way.

    Most of the same experts say Mallett is worth a late first round to mid second round as the Patriots have a 3rd round tied up with him and are entitled to a certain return on their investment.

    What that return on investment remains to be seen. I would think any team offering the Pats a 3rd will get hung up on.

    As I have said I would love a late first for him or an early second. But seeing how it's a very decent draft (on paper) I would also look at a combination of picks in the later rounds that equals Malletts value.

    And I'll repeat again, if Brady is gone in 2 then this whole discussion is moot as Mallett stays.

    I'll wager BB and TB have already discussed when TB will be riding off into the sunset of LA.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    Ok Rusty.  If Clev could trade Weeden for a 2nd or 3rd, as you suggest, and THEN get Mallett from NE, them I agree that this makes a lot more sense.  I think thaat for them, salvaging some sort of value out of Weeden is key.  I also agree that this deal would be a lot better for NE if they could swap first rounders AND acquire a mid-round pick, but I don't know if Lombardi would go that far.  Truthfully, I'd trade Mallett for just the swap of 1st round picks if I was BB and feel pretty good about it.  No matter what the perceived value of this particular 1st round is, and jump from 29 to 6 is worth a lot.  To me, a fair deal here would be: Clev gets Mallett & 29; NE gets 6 & Clev's 4th.  This would really change this draft for NE. Again though, I think that Clev would have to get something for Weeden in order for them to justify doing this.  Should be fascinating.  This has been a great debate, BTW.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stegall85. Show stegall85's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    In response to stegall85's comment:

     

    At this point Mallet would seem a lower risk than drafting a rookie. He's got the size and arm that NFL GM's want, the character concerns, that always seemed a little overblown with Mallet, are likely gone.

    The issue is his mental ability and that really hasn't been tested in game action. Neither has any college QB.

    However, the lack of even garbage time film could be something of a drag on his value and it would have been nice if BB had an extra mid-round pick or two in his pocket as a possible throw in to get a deal done.

    Hypothetically, if Cleveland offers the rumored trade but wants NE's 3rd thrown in do you still make the deal?

    I have no idea what will happen but if BB does plan to try to trade Mallet then a possible re-worked deal for Brady, to a more cap friendly situation, becomes more timing sensitive. If they make that type of move with Brady pre-draft, then it makes it look like Mallet is not in the long term plans.

    This is shaping up as a potentially very interesting off-season.

     

     

     




    Well that the question, what is Mallett worth in terms of value in relationship to the value chart the GMs use.

     

    I think, most "experts" agree that Mallett had a legit pedigree and was a legit first rounder before the rumours dropped him to the 3rd.

    Now that doesn't mean he is still perceived that way.

    Most of the same experts say Mallett is worth a late first round to mid second round as the Patriots have a 3rd round tied up with him and are entitled to a certain return on their investment.

    What that return on investment remains to be seen. I would think any team offering the Pats a 3rd will get hung up on.

    As I have said I would love a late first for him or an early second. But seeing how it's a very decent draft (on paper) I would also look at a combination of picks in the later rounds that equals Malletts value.

    And I'll repeat again, if Brady is gone in 2 then this whole discussion is moot as Mallett stays.

    I'll wager BB and TB have already discussed when TB will be riding off into the sunset of LA.  



    I agree except I do think GM's can fall in love with a QB, more than any other position, with the result that the value charts take on less importance.

    Every GM thinks he is making the right evaluation and so we've seen some headscratchers where a GM appears to mortgage his team's future for a certain guy. Especially at QB.

    I'm guessing and hoping you're right about the conversation between BB and TB having already taken place.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    why does it seem to me Cassell has no interest in coming to the Pats to sit behind Brady? If I am Cassell, I look at the CArds, Bills or Jets and sign a 1 year deal with one of them, and force my way onto the field showing I am a starting NFL QB, setting up a pay day in 2014

    to trade Mallet with out a firm back up plan is short sighted

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronk1. Show ronk1's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    In response to ClarkGriswold's comment:

    In response to ronk1's comment:

     

    why does it seem to me Cassell has no interest in coming to the Pats to sit behind Brady? If I am Cassell, I look at the CArds, Bills or Jets and sign a 1 year deal with one of them, and force my way onto the field showing I am a starting NFL QB, setting up a pay day in 2014

    to trade Mallet with out a firm back up plan is short sighted

     




    Wouldn't it make  more sense to be a part of a winner for more money?

     

    The Bills just paid Jackson up to 4.5 mil to compete with Fitzpatrick at around 5 million. Cassel will be paid less and be the 3rd QB on a loser.

    Why would Cassel want a crack at a ring and make possibly more to be a part of a winner? Is that a serious question?

    Cassel blocking the already stunted growth of McElroy with Sanchez at 8 million would also be annoying for Cassel.  The Jets have no money.

    The Cards would be an option, but that would mean Arians likes Cassel for his offense. Not sure.

     

     



    I would think the Pats would pay Cassell maybe $1.5 per year?

    If I am Cassel I am going to a team that I have a chance to play for a year, re-establish my worth, and sign a big contract for 2015. Even if the Jets paid Cassel vet minimum, but gave him a fair chance to compete to start, if I am Cassel I take that chance.

    Cassel, Flynn, Moore, Jackson, Fitzpatrick, Kolb, Skelton, Sanchez....seems to me Cassel has the potential to be better than any of them...

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    I've read that Arizona may take a peek at the Mallett situation as well......

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    If I was Cleveland and I wanted to trade for Mallet I'd just offer my second round pick. With #6 they could get one of the best players in the whole draft. My very first draft *Lombardi* I'm grabbing a stud D lineman.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    All good points and I'm not saying that this trade is impossible either.  One thing that many of you forget, and one of the reasons why I think this deal won't happen, is that Clev does not have a second round pick this draft.  They gave it up in the Supplemental Draft last year for Gordon.  A second and a 4th from Clev for Mallett would make a lot of sense, but unfortunately it can't happen.  Since they are lacking that 2nd rounder, I expect Lombardi to be very careful about trading away even more picks.  You're right, Rusty.  This rumor probably has some validity to it.  I'm sure that BB & Lombardi have discussed Mallett in some capacity.  I just have my doubts as to whether the two sides can make it work with the pieces available this year. 

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    Yep.  Lots of ways this could go down.  I just hope we get generous compensation for Mallett if we do in fact trade him.  I love having him as a backup/possible successor and I feel like he is worth a lot to NE.  BB has all the leverage here, which is certainly good news.

     
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    Re: Mallet is a keeper...

    I hope their next QB is more mobile. Doesn't have to be Mike Vick but someone who can at least scramble for 4 yards to make a first down. Brady is so good that he doesn't   need that in his game so much but Mallett is no Brady.

     
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