Mallett to Browns???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

     

     



    Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?



    But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

    If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to RockScully's comment:

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    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    How is it "ridiculous" if RG3 was taken 2nd overall in the 2012 draft and the Skins mortgaged their entire next 3 drafts just to get a guy who just destroyed his leg?  Compared to that, Mallett would be an absolute bargain, especially if you're like me who feels the run based QBs like RG3, Kaepernick, etc, will eventually be hurt more often than not like Mike Vick.

    Is it "ridiculous" to use a top 10 pick on Barkley or Geno Smith? No, it's not if a team who needs a QB prospect in a QB league likes one of those QBs.  Lombardi likes Mallett. Duh.

    Some of you here, mostly the trolls and irrationals who don't see how brilliant BB is/don't want to give him credit for anything due to jealousy and unhealthy following of the anti-BB media, have the worst time understanding the concept of a market.

    It's unreal. You're so dumb I cannot even believe you're adults.

     

     




    Simmer down dumbkoff. BB clearly isn't a whiz kid with drafting but is a very shrewd trader. If he deals Mallet he will undoubtedly get a great deal for him.

     

    BB preys on the foibles of others in trade talks. He has probably the greatest poker face in history.

     




    Clean out the diapers. The stench is unbearable.

     




    Typical remark by junior the dumbkoff displaying his intelligence level. Stop embarrassing yourself.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

     

     



    Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

     



    But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

     

    If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

     




    So you'd rather have 08' Cassel or 12' Palmer over a top 15 pick QB? Look at Cassel's numbers in 08' they were mediocre at best. Your whole arguement is that Cassel is more valuable then a top 15 rated draft pick (Mallett was a top 15 rated QB minus off field issues).

    BTW you wouldn't have to be more clear if you used the right word like saying most instead of every.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    So ... no #6 for #29 and Mallet.

    How about Mallet for a high/mid second rounder and a conditional #1/2 in 2014. If he plays 50% of the offensive snaps its a #1 if not a #2.

    Cleveland could trade #6 for say #12 and #44 this year and then trade #44 this year and ? next year for Mallet? Would you take that trade?

    Would BB demand an extra 3rd or 4th rounder in that trade? Or would Cleveland want some mid round pick added in?

    Or how about a 2013 #2, and a 2014 swap of 1st rounders plus a 2014 #2 (the swap contingent on NE having a better record than Cleveland.)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to mia76's comment:

    So ... no #6 for #29 and Mallet.

    ....

    Or how about a 2013 #2, and a 2014 swap of 1st rounders plus a 2014 #2 (the swap contingent on NE having a better record than Cleveland.)



    Lots of possibilities if Cleveland wants him.  One thing though, I think they gave up their second rounder when they picked Gordon in the supp draft. Could be wrong though?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    Folks....the simple things some see but many are missing. Keep it KISS

    1. Casell was a 7th round pick who HAD to play to justify a 2nd rd draft pick trade.

    Cassell was a bench warmer in College

    2. Mallett was a mid-third rounder who fell out of the first round due to drug and maturity rumors.

    Mallett was a starter at Arkansas

    If the Patriots were to entertain trading Mallett could someone here explain to me how the Pats would trade him for less than a 3rd round pick?

    If the Patriots were to entertain trading Mallett you do realize that all draft and talent people have stated that Mallett would be fairly worth a second round pick. So why would the Patriots take less than a second round pick?

    Before last years draft the Jaguars press was stating the Jags "asked about Mallett" Do you think the Pats would ever confirm this?

    So if we take Mallett with 2nd round value, and our 29th pick in the first round, just exactly how much higher could we move up in the first round? One or 2 spots..NFW...gotta be way more than that.

    Now, if you are like me, and that being a belief that Brady is done in 2 yrs, Mallett is a keeper. However the majority opinion here is that Brady stays 3/4 yrs so if that's the case then moving Mallett now is perfect.

    It's really that simple my Dear Watson.......... 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    How is it "ridiculous" if RG3 was taken 2nd overall in the 2012 draft and the Skins mortgaged their entire next 3 drafts just to get a guy who just destroyed his leg?  Compared to that, Mallett would be an absolute bargain, especially if you're like me who feels the run based QBs like RG3, Kaepernick, etc, will eventually be hurt more often than not like Mike Vick.

    Is it "ridiculous" to use a top 10 pick on Barkley or Geno Smith? No, it's not if a team who needs a QB prospect in a QB league likes one of those QBs.  Lombardi likes Mallett. Duh.

    Some of you here, mostly the trolls and irrationals who don't see how brilliant BB is/don't want to give him credit for anything due to jealousy and unhealthy following of the anti-BB media, have the worst time understanding the concept of a market.

    It's unreal. You're so dumb I cannot even believe you're adults.

     

     




    I'd imagine they didn't plan for his leg destruction but they did plan for his possible OROY. 

     

     




    Well, would you rather have a healthy QB at that money or not?  Your COlts scored big with Luck. He's not a run based QB, can run, is mobile, can throw, lead, is accurate, etc.  Honestly, it's Luck and Wilson who appear to have the best skill sets and aren't running a run based offense.

     

    So, congrats.

    Mallett is a larger, tall, but athletic prototype who can get the ball down the field in an offensive era.

    This is attractive to many GMs, including those who think that being trained by BB and Brady, etc, is a good thing, not a meaningless thing.  Sheesh. As if Geno Smith has received better training to run a pro style offense since 2011 than Mallett? Really? How is that?

    You're just jealous you got nothing for Gomer and Polian's supposed transitional QBs like Sorgi or Painter never worked out for anything.



    I am not saying Mallett doesn't have value, but I think the idea that he is worth the 6th pick and a mid rounder is delusional.  The professional tape on him is 1 for 4 and a 5 passer rating.  You want potential to be worth something, so be it, but performance is worth more.

    The difference is that Geno Smith may only cost a single pick.  You want to suggest that Mallett is worth 2.  I disagree. 

    I'm not jealous of anything.  I am just evaluating your delusion. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    So ... no #6 for #29 and Mallet.

    ....

    Or how about a 2013 #2, and a 2014 swap of 1st rounders plus a 2014 #2 (the swap contingent on NE having a better record than Cleveland.)

     



    Lots of possibilities if Cleveland wants him.  One thing though, I think they gave up their second rounder when they picked Gordon in the supp draft. Could be wrong though?

     




    you're right but Gordon for what would have been #38 is actually a decent pick for Clev. Gordon was pretty productive this year with a bad QB

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     


    Babe is spot on here.  I think you other guys are experiencing wishful thinking.  On field play is about the only thing that matters.  Cassell had that which is why he was as valuable as he was. 

    Granted Mallett's situation is a bit unique because his talent was projected higher than actual draft position, and because the guy in front of him is Tom Brady. 

     

    Regardless, the guy has little on field play to prove that he is worth anything better than his draft position.  If he was a sure-fire guy, he never would have dropped to the 3rd.  I've never understood why people blind themselves to facts like this and a little logical reasoning.  Why, do you think, anyone would pay more for a player than his draft position when his play or lack thereof has provided no reason to do so?  

    Further, how many first round QB's turn out to be busts or marginal players?  Plenty.  Since 2000, these QB's were 1st rd picks:

    Carr, Harrington, Ramsey, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman, Losman, Campbell, Young, Leinert, Russell, Quinn, Sanchez, Tebow, Gabbert. 

    Would anyone say that they performed to their draft position?  So, why now, would anyone think Mallett, without a resume would perform well beyond his?

    One can argue talent all day, but talent and performance are 2 different things.  Regardless of talent, Mallett was drafted in the 3rd, and he has yet to prove that he is better than that.  Any GM worth his salt would not begin discussions with the patriots without this reality being agreed upon. 

     



    Cassel was a 7th rd pick and then started in his 4th year.

     

    Mallett was a 1st rd pick talent and is now entering his 3rd year.    What is it that you don't get about a 7th rd pick and a guy whose only flaw was rumored "maturity" issues which caused him to drop to the 3rd?

    He gets trained by Brady, almost daily and this holds no value to a GM out there? Are you insane? 

    Would you rather have Barkley, Smith or Mallett as a "rookie" QB in 2013?  It's very clear what the right answer is. Cost, talent level, projection in 2013 would all favor the choice of Mallett in that situation.

    You like to side with out board Irrationals because you are a Troll so it's covenient for you to do that. When I bludgeoned you back on Page 1, this thread should have been over.

    Please learn facts and realities.

    No one is guaranteeing this, but it is beyond clear that this is on the table at this point a distinct possibility, final compensation not withstanding.

    Matt Barkley and Geno Smith are the two worst prospects to come out in a draft in years. VERY thin QB crop.  Alex Smith costs far more than Mallett and Lombardi REALLY likes Mallett.

    Note how the Trolls and our Irrationals who hate BB have all chimed in to downplay this possibility, while the educated fans here see the logic and acknwoledge the BB/Lombardi connection and it being a win/win for both.

     

     

     

     

     



    Brady was a 6th round pick that has 2 MVP's.  What's your point? 

     

    I don't know how much more clear I can be.  Cassel played and succeeded, Mallett hasn't so the professional book on him doesn't exist. 

    Regardless of the reasons for Mallett's drop, he dropped.  Just because he hasn't shown up on a police report doesn't mean he has matured.  He is currently buried because he's behind Brady. 

    As for the question regarding Barkley Smith or Mallett.  If I am Cleveland I just might continue to give Weeden a chance.  Further, the thing about Barkley and Smith is that they've played for the past 2 years.  We don't know what Mallett's done for the past 2 years do we?  Sure he's studied under Brady, but is he any good?

    This has nothing to do with hating Belichick.  This has to do with negotiation.  Unfortunately, you've got this idea that the NFL exists at Belichick's pleasure. 

    I may be wrong, but I remember people talking about the pats getting substantial compensation for Hoyer.  Didn't they just release him for nothing?




    No we're comparing an aberration like Brady as a 6th rd pick? What's next, Unitas undrafted and cut by the Steelers? lol

    My god, dude. Seek help. Your debating skills are pathetic and weak.

    MIKE LOMBARDI CALLED THE PICK OF WEEDEN LAST YEAR A "PANICKED DISASTER", so how does this show them wanting to "give Weeden a chance"?

    And no, he NFL doesn't "exist at Belichick's 'pleasure'", BB didn't take Mallett in 2011 by accident.  They liked his skill set and probably knew this kind of an opportunity might arise, which is why the value of Mallett means something 2 years later.

    You act like there was no design with him picking Mallett. It wasn't to sit behind Brady for 6 years.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Leave it to russ to get so caught up in his own mindset that he misses the point and claims some kind of debate excellence. 

    the point again - for emphasis - is that on-field play trumps potential.  Did you know that Brandon Weeden's NFL passer rating was better than Mallett's?  Brandon Weeden threw the ball 517 times last year.  Ryan Mallett threw 4. 

    I agree with you that the pats had a purpose for taking Mallett, and I'd imagine that they hope to get some compensation for him.  What I don't believe however, is that he is worth the 6th pick and a mid-rounder as you suggested.  He's worth something, possibly, but I don't think he is worth even a 1st. 

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

     

     



    Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

     



    But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

     

    If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

     

     




    So you'd rather have 08' Cassel or 12' Palmer over a top 15 pick QB? Look at Cassel's numbers in 08' they were mediocre at best. Your whole arguement is that Cassel is more valuable then a top 15 rated draft pick (Mallett was a top 15 rated QB minus off field issues).

     

    BTW you wouldn't have to be more clear if you used the right word like saying most instead of every.



    This is where people get themselves in trouble.  Its like valuing a real estate property at a million dollars when the most anyone is willing to pay is 300,000.  

    But for the sake of discussion, lets agree that he was a "top 15 value".  That was 2 years ago.  what is he now?  What does his NFL experience say he is?  It says he is a 25% completion rate passer with a 5 passer rating.  Granted those stats are meaningless.  So is his NFL career to this point.  Why would anyone have to assume that Mallett is automatically better today? 

    What information does anyone have to prove that Mallett is worth some hefty price today? 

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

     

     



    Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

     



    But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

     

    If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

     

     




    So you'd rather have 08' Cassel or 12' Palmer over a top 15 pick QB? Look at Cassel's numbers in 08' they were mediocre at best. Your whole arguement is that Cassel is more valuable then a top 15 rated draft pick (Mallett was a top 15 rated QB minus off field issues).

     

    BTW you wouldn't have to be more clear if you used the right word like saying most instead of every.

     



    This is where people get themselves in trouble.  Its like valuing a real estate property at a million dollars when the most anyone is willing to pay is 300,000.  

     

    But for the sake of discussion, lets agree that he was a "top 15 value".  That was 2 years ago.  what is he now?  What does his NFL experience say he is?  It says he is a 25% completion rate passer with a 5 passer rating.  Granted those stats are meaningless.  So is his NFL career to this point.  Why would anyone have to assume that Mallett is automatically better today? 

    What information does anyone have to prove that Mallett is worth some hefty price today? 

     



    I would agree that his value dropped if he had actually played any meaningful minutes in a competitive situation, but he hasn't. What he got was like two series at the end of blow out games when any first stringers on offense that could be pulled had been pulled. So harping on about his 5 passer rating and 25% completion record is stupid. You might as well add in his -5 yards rushing (because of kneel downs) to prove he isn't a running back either. Nobody is evaluating any QB based on those end of game situations - and I would say the same if he was 5 for 5 on passes with a 110 rating.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to UD6's comment:

     


    Babe is spot on here.  I think you other guys are experiencing wishful thinking.  On field play is about the only thing that matters.  Cassell had that which is why he was as valuable as he was. 

    Granted Mallett's situation is a bit unique because his talent was projected higher than actual draft position, and because the guy in front of him is Tom Brady. 

     

    Regardless, the guy has little on field play to prove that he is worth anything better than his draft position.  If he was a sure-fire guy, he never would have dropped to the 3rd.  I've never understood why people blind themselves to facts like this and a little logical reasoning.  Why, do you think, anyone would pay more for a player than his draft position when his play or lack thereof has provided no reason to do so?  

    Further, how many first round QB's turn out to be busts or marginal players?  Plenty.  Since 2000, these QB's were 1st rd picks:

    Carr, Harrington, Ramsey, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman, Losman, Campbell, Young, Leinert, Russell, Quinn, Sanchez, Tebow, Gabbert. 

    Would anyone say that they performed to their draft position?  So, why now, would anyone think Mallett, without a resume would perform well beyond his?

    One can argue talent all day, but talent and performance are 2 different things.  Regardless of talent, Mallett was drafted in the 3rd, and he has yet to prove that he is better than that.  Any GM worth his salt would not begin discussions with the patriots without this reality being agreed upon. 

     



    Cassel was a 7th rd pick and then started in his 4th year.

     

    Mallett was a 1st rd pick talent and is now entering his 3rd year.    What is it that you don't get about a 7th rd pick and a guy whose only flaw was rumored "maturity" issues which caused him to drop to the 3rd?

    He gets trained by Brady, almost daily and this holds no value to a GM out there? Are you insane? 

    Would you rather have Barkley, Smith or Mallett as a "rookie" QB in 2013?  It's very clear what the right answer is. Cost, talent level, projection in 2013 would all favor the choice of Mallett in that situation.

    You like to side with out board Irrationals because you are a Troll so it's covenient for you to do that. When I bludgeoned you back on Page 1, this thread should have been over.

    Please learn facts and realities.

    No one is guaranteeing this, but it is beyond clear that this is on the table at this point a distinct possibility, final compensation not withstanding.

    Matt Barkley and Geno Smith are the two worst prospects to come out in a draft in years. VERY thin QB crop.  Alex Smith costs far more than Mallett and Lombardi REALLY likes Mallett.

    Note how the Trolls and our Irrationals who hate BB have all chimed in to downplay this possibility, while the educated fans here see the logic and acknwoledge the BB/Lombardi connection and it being a win/win for both.

     

     

     

     

     



    Brady was a 6th round pick that has 2 MVP's.  What's your point? 

     

    I don't know how much more clear I can be.  Cassel played and succeeded, Mallett hasn't so the professional book on him doesn't exist. 

    Regardless of the reasons for Mallett's drop, he dropped.  Just because he hasn't shown up on a police report doesn't mean he has matured.  He is currently buried because he's behind Brady. 

    As for the question regarding Barkley Smith or Mallett.  If I am Cleveland I just might continue to give Weeden a chance.  Further, the thing about Barkley and Smith is that they've played for the past 2 years.  We don't know what Mallett's done for the past 2 years do we?  Sure he's studied under Brady, but is he any good?

    This has nothing to do with hating Belichick.  This has to do with negotiation.  Unfortunately, you've got this idea that the NFL exists at Belichick's pleasure. 

    I may be wrong, but I remember people talking about the pats getting substantial compensation for Hoyer.  Didn't they just release him for nothing?

     




    No we're comparing an aberration like Brady as a 6th rd pick? What's next, Unitas undrafted and cut by the Steelers? lol

     

    My god, dude. Seek help. Your debating skills are pathetic and weak.

    MIKE LOMBARDI CALLED THE PICK OF WEEDEN LAST YEAR A "PANICKED DISASTER", so how does this show them wanting to "give Weeden a chance"?

    And no, he NFL doesn't "exist at Belichick's 'pleasure'", BB didn't take Mallett in 2011 by accident.  They liked his skill set and probably knew this kind of an opportunity might arise, which is why the value of Mallett means something 2 years later.

    You act like there was no design with him picking Mallett. It wasn't to sit behind Brady for 6 years.

     

     



    Leave it to russ to get so caught up in his own mindset that he misses the point and claims some kind of debate excellence. 

     

    the point again - for emphasis - is that on-field play trumps potential.  Did you know that Brandon Weeden's NFL passer rating was better than Mallett's?  Brandon Weeden threw the ball 517 times last year.  Ryan Mallett threw 4. 

    I agree with you that the pats had a purpose for taking Mallett, and I'd imagine that they hope to get some compensation for him.  What I don't believe however, is that he is worth the 6th pick and a mid-rounder as you suggested.  He's worth something, possibly, but I don't think he is worth even a 1st. 




    So, the fact that Lomardi loves Mallett, doesn't possibly make the price higher?  How does that make sense? 

    Cassel a 2nd rder in 2009 as a 7th rd pick, Kolb a 2nd rd pick, with each now out of the starting QB discussions, Sanchez a bust at pick 5 in 2009, a thin QB crop in 2013, Mallet a 1st rd option in 2011, but somehow him learning from Brady for 2 years, weakens his market value in 2013?

    If I am BB, I don't trade Mallett if it's not for the switch in the 1st with the Browns.  I just wait another year to drive the price up higher.

    Don't think for a second Lombardi, a guy who is on RECORD as saying the Weeden choice last year was a "panicked disaster" isn't think something along those lines.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd say if Lombardi wants him, then yes Mallett's value increases from possibly a 3rd rounder to something better than that, but not #6 and a mid-rounder. 

    Cassel's draft position became irrelevant after he played well.  Why are you refusing to get this?  Jeff Saturday's lack of a draft position became irrelevant after he played well.  Drafts are crapshoots.  Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - highly drafted busts.  Tom Brady, Jeff Saturday, Shannon Sharpe, low or undrafted success stories.  These are the only ones.  

    IMO, draft position matters only until a player gets the opportunity to demonstrate his value ON THE FIELD. 

    Finally, time does not always add value.  So if, as you say, wait another year, why do you believe that is going to help Belichick with Mallett's value?  If he doesn't play again next year, he'll still be an unknown quantity. 

    Just because Aaron Rodgers was successful, doesn't mean Mallett will be.  Further, during Rodgers' 3 years as a back up his completion % was 59% in total, in his last year as a back up, however it was 71% and his passer rating was over 100.  Again, Mallett is currently 1 for 4 and a 5 passer rating. 

     

     
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    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

    Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

     

     



    Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

     



    But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

     

    If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

     

     




    So you'd rather have 08' Cassel or 12' Palmer over a top 15 pick QB? Look at Cassel's numbers in 08' they were mediocre at best. Your whole arguement is that Cassel is more valuable then a top 15 rated draft pick (Mallett was a top 15 rated QB minus off field issues).

     

    BTW you wouldn't have to be more clear if you used the right word like saying most instead of every.

     



    This is where people get themselves in trouble.  Its like valuing a real estate property at a million dollars when the most anyone is willing to pay is 300,000.  

     

    But for the sake of discussion, lets agree that he was a "top 15 value".  That was 2 years ago.  what is he now?  What does his NFL experience say he is?  It says he is a 25% completion rate passer with a 5 passer rating.  Granted those stats are meaningless.  So is his NFL career to this point.  Why would anyone have to assume that Mallett is automatically better today? 

    What information does anyone have to prove that Mallett is worth some hefty price today? 

     

     



    If the market is WORSE now that means his value is MORE. Get it?

     

    Holy crap, dude. You will do anything, won't you? lol



    If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas. 

    Weeden thus far has demonstrated more value than Mallett.  Now maybe Lombardi wants Mallett and ultimately that may be all that matters, but Mallett was taken as a 3rd rounder, and I believe it is from that position that Lombardi would negotiate. 

    Here's how it goes down. 

    Lombardi - bill, I'll give you a 3rd for him

    Belichick - you said he was a top 15 pick. 

    Lombardi - did you pick him in the top 15? 

    Belichick - no. 

    Lombardi - lets start with a 3rd. 

    Belichick - we all know he's better than that.  He had baggage, that's why he dropped. 

    Lombardi - does he still have baggage? 

    Belichick - no. 

    Lombardi - how do you know? 

    Belichick - he hasn't made any news. 

    Lombardi - and that means he's clean?  Forget about that.  Lets say he's clean.  He hasn't played.  I have no idea whether he's better today than he was in college.  That was then.  This is now. 

    Belichick - but what about his potential. 

    Lombardi - I like it, but I don't know if it exists anymore, and until its proven, it doesn't exist as a 1st rounder.  Bill, what round did you draft him in? 

    Belichick - 3rd round

    Lombardi - I'll give you a third rounder for him.

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to RockScully's comment:

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    Babe is spot on here.  I think you other guys are experiencing wishful thinking.  On field play is about the only thing that matters.  Cassell had that which is why he was as valuable as he was. 

    Granted Mallett's situation is a bit unique because his talent was projected higher than actual draft position, and because the guy in front of him is Tom Brady. 

     

    Regardless, the guy has little on field play to prove that he is worth anything better than his draft position.  If he was a sure-fire guy, he never would have dropped to the 3rd.  I've never understood why people blind themselves to facts like this and a little logical reasoning.  Why, do you think, anyone would pay more for a player than his draft position when his play or lack thereof has provided no reason to do so?  

    Further, how many first round QB's turn out to be busts or marginal players?  Plenty.  Since 2000, these QB's were 1st rd picks:

    Carr, Harrington, Ramsey, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman, Losman, Campbell, Young, Leinert, Russell, Quinn, Sanchez, Tebow, Gabbert. 

    Would anyone say that they performed to their draft position?  So, why now, would anyone think Mallett, without a resume would perform well beyond his?

    One can argue talent all day, but talent and performance are 2 different things.  Regardless of talent, Mallett was drafted in the 3rd, and he has yet to prove that he is better than that.  Any GM worth his salt would not begin discussions with the patriots without this reality being agreed upon. 

     



    Cassel was a 7th rd pick and then started in his 4th year.

     

    Mallett was a 1st rd pick talent and is now entering his 3rd year.    What is it that you don't get about a 7th rd pick and a guy whose only flaw was rumored "maturity" issues which caused him to drop to the 3rd?

    He gets trained by Brady, almost daily and this holds no value to a GM out there? Are you insane? 

    Would you rather have Barkley, Smith or Mallett as a "rookie" QB in 2013?  It's very clear what the right answer is. Cost, talent level, projection in 2013 would all favor the choice of Mallett in that situation.

    You like to side with out board Irrationals because you are a Troll so it's covenient for you to do that. When I bludgeoned you back on Page 1, this thread should have been over.

    Please learn facts and realities.

    No one is guaranteeing this, but it is beyond clear that this is on the table at this point a distinct possibility, final compensation not withstanding.

    Matt Barkley and Geno Smith are the two worst prospects to come out in a draft in years. VERY thin QB crop.  Alex Smith costs far more than Mallett and Lombardi REALLY likes Mallett.

    Note how the Trolls and our Irrationals who hate BB have all chimed in to downplay this possibility, while the educated fans here see the logic and acknwoledge the BB/Lombardi connection and it being a win/win for both.

     

     

     

     

     



    Brady was a 6th round pick that has 2 MVP's.  What's your point? 

     

    I don't know how much more clear I can be.  Cassel played and succeeded, Mallett hasn't so the professional book on him doesn't exist. 

    Regardless of the reasons for Mallett's drop, he dropped.  Just because he hasn't shown up on a police report doesn't mean he has matured.  He is currently buried because he's behind Brady. 

    As for the question regarding Barkley Smith or Mallett.  If I am Cleveland I just might continue to give Weeden a chance.  Further, the thing about Barkley and Smith is that they've played for the past 2 years.  We don't know what Mallett's done for the past 2 years do we?  Sure he's studied under Brady, but is he any good?

    This has nothing to do with hating Belichick.  This has to do with negotiation.  Unfortunately, you've got this idea that the NFL exists at Belichick's pleasure. 

    I may be wrong, but I remember people talking about the pats getting substantial compensation for Hoyer.  Didn't they just release him for nothing?

     




    No we're comparing an aberration like Brady as a 6th rd pick? What's next, Unitas undrafted and cut by the Steelers? lol

     

    My god, dude. Seek help. Your debating skills are pathetic and weak.

    MIKE LOMBARDI CALLED THE PICK OF WEEDEN LAST YEAR A "PANICKED DISASTER", so how does this show them wanting to "give Weeden a chance"?

    And no, he NFL doesn't "exist at Belichick's 'pleasure'", BB didn't take Mallett in 2011 by accident.  They liked his skill set and probably knew this kind of an opportunity might arise, which is why the value of Mallett means something 2 years later.

    You act like there was no design with him picking Mallett. It wasn't to sit behind Brady for 6 years.

     

     



    Leave it to russ to get so caught up in his own mindset that he misses the point and claims some kind of debate excellence. 

     

    the point again - for emphasis - is that on-field play trumps potential.  Did you know that Brandon Weeden's NFL passer rating was better than Mallett's?  Brandon Weeden threw the ball 517 times last year.  Ryan Mallett threw 4. 

    I agree with you that the pats had a purpose for taking Mallett, and I'd imagine that they hope to get some compensation for him.  What I don't believe however, is that he is worth the 6th pick and a mid-rounder as you suggested.  He's worth something, possibly, but I don't think he is worth even a 1st. 

     




    So, the fact that Lomardi loves Mallett, doesn't possibly make the price higher?  How does that make sense? 

     

    Cassel a 2nd rder in 2009 as a 7th rd pick, Kolb a 2nd rd pick, with each now out of the starting QB discussions, Sanchez a bust at pick 5 in 2009, a thin QB crop in 2013, Mallet a 1st rd option in 2011, but somehow him learning from Brady for 2 years, weakens his market value in 2013?

    If I am BB, I don't trade Mallett if it's not for the switch in the 1st with the Browns.  I just wait another year to drive the price up higher.

    Don't think for a second Lombardi, a guy who is on RECORD as saying the Weeden choice last year was a "panicked disaster" isn't think something along those lines.

     

     

     



    I'd say if Lombardi wants him, then yes Mallett's value increases from possibly a 3rd rounder to something better than that, but not #6 and a mid-rounder. 

     

    Cassel's draft position became irrelevant after he played well.  Why are you refusing to get this?  Jeff Saturday's lack of a draft position became irrelevant after he played well.  Drafts are crapshoots.  Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - highly drafted busts.  Tom Brady, Jeff Saturday, Shannon Sharpe, low or undrafted success stories.  These are the only ones.  

    IMO, draft position matters only until a player gets the opportunity to demonstrate his value ON THE FIELD. 

    Finally, time does not always add value.  So if, as you say, wait another year, why do you believe that is going to help Belichick with Mallett's value?  If he doesn't play again next year, he'll still be an unknown quantity. 

    Just because Aaron Rodgers was successful, doesn't mean Mallett will be.  Further, during Rodgers' 3 years as a back up his completion % was 59% in total, in his last year as a back up, however it was 71% and his passer rating was over 100.  Again, Mallett is currently 1 for 4 and a 5 passer rating. 

     




    Did you just compare the value of Center to a the value of a potential franchise QB in a QB league in an offensive era?

    Oh, I think you did!

    Did you also just reference 4 passes on one series at the end of a game as enough evidence to judge a prospect?  Wow!  4 passes equates to an analyst accepting that as a "QB Rating".

    How many passes has Barley or Smith thrown in the NFL?  They will each cost 3 times Mallet's amount and didn't have the college careers Mallett did in Petrinoo's pro style offense either.

    Don't apply to law school.

    [/QUOTE]

    No dum bass.  Once again you've got a comprehension problem.  I compared a player's draft position to his performance on the field.  Go back to school man. 

    And if you had read any of the previous posts, which its clear you don't, I said Mallett's stats are a non-starter.  He's essentially got none.  What he does have sucks. 

    The difference between the college kids and Mallett is 1) college kids have come off of a year playing the game.  2) the draft is for them.  3) Mallett has already been drafted and the only proof that he is worth anything is that he has a roster spot.  That's it. 

    You wish to elevate Mallett's value based on potential seen 3 years ago.  No one has seen him since.  No one knows whether or not he still harbors substance problems.  Todd Marinovich was a 1st rounder with substance problems.  He was a spectacular NFL QB, wouldn't you agree?

    I believe Mallett's value right now is a 3rd rounder.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    Ahhhhh.....never mind...I changed my mind...Mallett suxs ....the laser arm..illusion....crappy feet....most likely can't complete a roll out pass....touch pasess...nah ....mentioned as a 2010 Heisman Candidate...silly....his teams loved him..ah....they must have been all under the influence  of something...Lombardi and Gruden say the kid can play...period...they don't know sxit from shinola...

    Oh well....it was just a thought.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OurYaWeYlQw

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    If a GM truly believes a QB can be a franchise QB he'll move mountains to get him. It's just a matter of which mountains and when. Caveat; whether or not Mallet is legit to dudes on the internet has no bearing on a GM's decision-making process.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Mallett to Browns???

    In response to JohnHannahrulz's comment:

    If a GM truly believes a QB can be a franchise QB he'll move mountains to get him. It's just a matter of which mountains and when. Caveat; whether or not Mallet is legit to dudes on the internet has no bearing on a GM's decision-making process.



    Agreed. And if Lombardi is willing to do something stupid to get him (give up the no. 6 overall pick) when it sounds like no one else is in the bidding. I hope the BB does not allow any sort of relationship with Lombardi not take full advantage of that.

    It is not like Lombardi actually has a good record as a personnel guy. Cleveland had one winning season while he was in charge, and the Raiders were a disaster for the last six season he was out there. 

     
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