In response to BabeParilli's comment:

Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

In response to BabeParilli's comment:

In response to RockScully's comment:

How is it "ridiculous" if RG3 was taken 2nd overall in the 2012 draft and the Skins mortgaged their entire next 3 drafts just to get a guy who just destroyed his leg?  Compared to that, Mallett would be an absolute bargain, especially if you're like me who feels the run based QBs like RG3, Kaepernick, etc, will eventually be hurt more often than not like Mike Vick.

Is it "ridiculous" to use a top 10 pick on Barkley or Geno Smith? No, it's not if a team who needs a QB prospect in a QB league likes one of those QBs.  Lombardi likes Mallett. Duh.

Some of you here, mostly the trolls and irrationals who don't see how brilliant BB is/don't want to give him credit for anything due to jealousy and unhealthy following of the anti-BB media, have the worst time understanding the concept of a market.

It's unreal. You're so dumb I cannot even believe you're adults.

Simmer down dumbkoff. BB clearly isn't a whiz kid with drafting but is a very shrewd trader. If he deals Mallet he will undoubtedly get a great deal for him.

BB preys on the foibles of others in trade talks. He has probably the greatest poker face in history.

Clean out the diapers. The stench is unbearable.

In response to PatsEng's comment:

In response to BabeParilli's comment:

Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

So ... no #6 for #29 and Mallet.

....

Or how about a 2013 #2, and a 2014 swap of 1st rounders plus a 2014 #2 (the swap contingent on NE having a better record than Cleveland.)

In response to UD6's comment:

In response to RockScully's comment:

How is it "ridiculous" if RG3 was taken 2nd overall in the 2012 draft and the Skins mortgaged their entire next 3 drafts just to get a guy who just destroyed his leg?  Compared to that, Mallett would be an absolute bargain, especially if you're like me who feels the run based QBs like RG3, Kaepernick, etc, will eventually be hurt more often than not like Mike Vick.

Is it "ridiculous" to use a top 10 pick on Barkley or Geno Smith? No, it's not if a team who needs a QB prospect in a QB league likes one of those QBs.  Lombardi likes Mallett. Duh.

Some of you here, mostly the trolls and irrationals who don't see how brilliant BB is/don't want to give him credit for anything due to jealousy and unhealthy following of the anti-BB media, have the worst time understanding the concept of a market.

It's unreal. You're so dumb I cannot even believe you're adults.

I'd imagine they didn't plan for his leg destruction but they did plan for his possible OROY. 

Well, would you rather have a healthy QB at that money or not?  Your COlts scored big with Luck. He's not a run based QB, can run, is mobile, can throw, lead, is accurate, etc.  Honestly, it's Luck and Wilson who appear to have the best skill sets and aren't running a run based offense.

So, congrats.

Mallett is a larger, tall, but athletic prototype who can get the ball down the field in an offensive era.

This is attractive to many GMs, including those who think that being trained by BB and Brady, etc, is a good thing, not a meaningless thing.  Sheesh. As if Geno Smith has received better training to run a pro style offense since 2011 than Mallett? Really? How is that?

You're just jealous you got nothing for Gomer and Polian's supposed transitional QBs like Sorgi or Painter never worked out for anything.

In response to mia76's comment:

So ... no #6 for #29 and Mallet.

....

Or how about a 2013 #2, and a 2014 swap of 1st rounders plus a 2014 #2 (the swap contingent on NE having a better record than Cleveland.)

Lots of possibilities if Cleveland wants him.  One thing though, I think they gave up their second rounder when they picked Gordon in the supp draft. Could be wrong though?

In response to UD6's comment:

Babe is spot on here.  I think you other guys are experiencing wishful thinking.  On field play is about the only thing that matters.  Cassell had that which is why he was as valuable as he was. 

Granted Mallett's situation is a bit unique because his talent was projected higher than actual draft position, and because the guy in front of him is Tom Brady. 

Regardless, the guy has little on field play to prove that he is worth anything better than his draft position.  If he was a sure-fire guy, he never would have dropped to the 3rd.  I've never understood why people blind themselves to facts like this and a little logical reasoning.  Why, do you think, anyone would pay more for a player than his draft position when his play or lack thereof has provided no reason to do so?  

Further, how many first round QB's turn out to be busts or marginal players?  Plenty.  Since 2000, these QB's were 1st rd picks:

Carr, Harrington, Ramsey, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman, Losman, Campbell, Young, Leinert, Russell, Quinn, Sanchez, Tebow, Gabbert. 

Would anyone say that they performed to their draft position?  So, why now, would anyone think Mallett, without a resume would perform well beyond his?

One can argue talent all day, but talent and performance are 2 different things.  Regardless of talent, Mallett was drafted in the 3rd, and he has yet to prove that he is better than that.  Any GM worth his salt would not begin discussions with the patriots without this reality being agreed upon. 

Cassel was a 7th rd pick and then started in his 4th year.

Mallett was a 1st rd pick talent and is now entering his 3rd year.    What is it that you don't get about a 7th rd pick and a guy whose only flaw was rumored "maturity" issues which caused him to drop to the 3rd?

He gets trained by Brady, almost daily and this holds no value to a GM out there? Are you insane? 

Would you rather have Barkley, Smith or Mallett as a "rookie" QB in 2013?  It's very clear what the right answer is. Cost, talent level, projection in 2013 would all favor the choice of Mallett in that situation.

You like to side with out board Irrationals because you are a Troll so it's covenient for you to do that. When I bludgeoned you back on Page 1, this thread should have been over.

Please learn facts and realities.

No one is guaranteeing this, but it is beyond clear that this is on the table at this point a distinct possibility, final compensation not withstanding.

Matt Barkley and Geno Smith are the two worst prospects to come out in a draft in years. VERY thin QB crop.  Alex Smith costs far more than Mallett and Lombardi REALLY likes Mallett.

Note how the Trolls and our Irrationals who hate BB have all chimed in to downplay this possibility, while the educated fans here see the logic and acknwoledge the BB/Lombardi connection and it being a win/win for both.

Brady was a 6th round pick that has 2 MVP's.  What's your point? 

I don't know how much more clear I can be.  Cassel played and succeeded, Mallett hasn't so the professional book on him doesn't exist. 

Regardless of the reasons for Mallett's drop, he dropped.  Just because he hasn't shown up on a police report doesn't mean he has matured.  He is currently buried because he's behind Brady. 

As for the question regarding Barkley Smith or Mallett.  If I am Cleveland I just might continue to give Weeden a chance.  Further, the thing about Barkley and Smith is that they've played for the past 2 years.  We don't know what Mallett's done for the past 2 years do we?  Sure he's studied under Brady, but is he any good?

This has nothing to do with hating Belichick.  This has to do with negotiation.  Unfortunately, you've got this idea that the NFL exists at Belichick's pleasure. 

I may be wrong, but I remember people talking about the pats getting substantial compensation for Hoyer.  Didn't they just release him for nothing?

In response to BabeParilli's comment:

In response to PatsEng's comment:

In response to BabeParilli's comment:

Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

So you'd rather have 08' Cassel or 12' Palmer over a top 15 pick QB? Look at Cassel's numbers in 08' they were mediocre at best. Your whole arguement is that Cassel is more valuable then a top 15 rated draft pick (Mallett was a top 15 rated QB minus off field issues).

BTW you wouldn't have to be more clear if you used the right word like saying most instead of every.

In response to PatsEng's comment:

In response to BabeParilli's comment:

In response to PatsEng's comment:

In response to BabeParilli's comment:

Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

So you'd rather have 08' Cassel or 12' Palmer over a top 15 pick QB? Look at Cassel's numbers in 08' they were mediocre at best. Your whole arguement is that Cassel is more valuable then a top 15 rated draft pick (Mallett was a top 15 rated QB minus off field issues).

BTW you wouldn't have to be more clear if you used the right word like saying most instead of every.

This is where people get themselves in trouble.  Its like valuing a real estate property at a million dollars when the most anyone is willing to pay is 300,000.  

But for the sake of discussion, lets agree that he was a "top 15 value".  That was 2 years ago.  what is he now?  What does his NFL experience say he is?  It says he is a 25% completion rate passer with a 5 passer rating.  Granted those stats are meaningless.  So is his NFL career to this point.  Why would anyone have to assume that Mallett is automatically better today? 

What information does anyone have to prove that Mallett is worth some hefty price today? 

In response to UD6's comment:

In response to RockScully's comment:

In response to UD6's comment:

Babe is spot on here.  I think you other guys are experiencing wishful thinking.  On field play is about the only thing that matters.  Cassell had that which is why he was as valuable as he was. 

Granted Mallett's situation is a bit unique because his talent was projected higher than actual draft position, and because the guy in front of him is Tom Brady. 

Regardless, the guy has little on field play to prove that he is worth anything better than his draft position.  If he was a sure-fire guy, he never would have dropped to the 3rd.  I've never understood why people blind themselves to facts like this and a little logical reasoning.  Why, do you think, anyone would pay more for a player than his draft position when his play or lack thereof has provided no reason to do so?  

Further, how many first round QB's turn out to be busts or marginal players?  Plenty.  Since 2000, these QB's were 1st rd picks:

Carr, Harrington, Ramsey, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman, Losman, Campbell, Young, Leinert, Russell, Quinn, Sanchez, Tebow, Gabbert. 

Would anyone say that they performed to their draft position?  So, why now, would anyone think Mallett, without a resume would perform well beyond his?

One can argue talent all day, but talent and performance are 2 different things.  Regardless of talent, Mallett was drafted in the 3rd, and he has yet to prove that he is better than that.  Any GM worth his salt would not begin discussions with the patriots without this reality being agreed upon. 

Cassel was a 7th rd pick and then started in his 4th year.

Mallett was a 1st rd pick talent and is now entering his 3rd year.    What is it that you don't get about a 7th rd pick and a guy whose only flaw was rumored "maturity" issues which caused him to drop to the 3rd?

He gets trained by Brady, almost daily and this holds no value to a GM out there? Are you insane? 

Would you rather have Barkley, Smith or Mallett as a "rookie" QB in 2013?  It's very clear what the right answer is. Cost, talent level, projection in 2013 would all favor the choice of Mallett in that situation.

You like to side with out board Irrationals because you are a Troll so it's covenient for you to do that. When I bludgeoned you back on Page 1, this thread should have been over.

Please learn facts and realities.

No one is guaranteeing this, but it is beyond clear that this is on the table at this point a distinct possibility, final compensation not withstanding.

Matt Barkley and Geno Smith are the two worst prospects to come out in a draft in years. VERY thin QB crop.  Alex Smith costs far more than Mallett and Lombardi REALLY likes Mallett.

Note how the Trolls and our Irrationals who hate BB have all chimed in to downplay this possibility, while the educated fans here see the logic and acknwoledge the BB/Lombardi connection and it being a win/win for both.

Brady was a 6th round pick that has 2 MVP's.  What's your point? 

I don't know how much more clear I can be.  Cassel played and succeeded, Mallett hasn't so the professional book on him doesn't exist. 

Regardless of the reasons for Mallett's drop, he dropped.  Just because he hasn't shown up on a police report doesn't mean he has matured.  He is currently buried because he's behind Brady. 

As for the question regarding Barkley Smith or Mallett.  If I am Cleveland I just might continue to give Weeden a chance.  Further, the thing about Barkley and Smith is that they've played for the past 2 years.  We don't know what Mallett's done for the past 2 years do we?  Sure he's studied under Brady, but is he any good?

This has nothing to do with hating Belichick.  This has to do with negotiation.  Unfortunately, you've got this idea that the NFL exists at Belichick's pleasure. 

I may be wrong, but I remember people talking about the pats getting substantial compensation for Hoyer.  Didn't they just release him for nothing?

No we're comparing an aberration like Brady as a 6th rd pick? What's next, Unitas undrafted and cut by the Steelers? lol

My god, dude. Seek help. Your debating skills are pathetic and weak.

MIKE LOMBARDI CALLED THE PICK OF WEEDEN LAST YEAR A "PANICKED DISASTER", so how does this show them wanting to "give Weeden a chance"?

And no, he NFL doesn't "exist at Belichick's 'pleasure'", BB didn't take Mallett in 2011 by accident.  They liked his skill set and probably knew this kind of an opportunity might arise, which is why the value of Mallett means something 2 years later.

You act like there was no design with him picking Mallett. It wasn't to sit behind Brady for 6 years.

Leave it to russ to get so caught up in his own mindset that he misses the point and claims some kind of debate excellence. 

the point again - for emphasis - is that on-field play trumps potential.  Did you know that Brandon Weeden's NFL passer rating was better than Mallett's?  Brandon Weeden threw the ball 517 times last year.  Ryan Mallett threw 4. 

I agree with you that the pats had a purpose for taking Mallett, and I'd imagine that they hope to get some compensation for him.  What I don't believe however, is that he is worth the 6th pick and a mid-rounder as you suggested.  He's worth something, possibly, but I don't think he is worth even a 1st. 

In response to UD6's comment:

In response to PatsEng's comment:

In response to BabeParilli's comment:

In response to PatsEng's comment:

In response to BabeParilli's comment:

Comparing Sanchez on the field with the Cassel of 2008 is not much of a comparison.

Babe you said on field trumps potential "every" time. Well Sanchez would be part of that every time wouldn't it?

But I never said dismal performance on an NFL field trumps anything. You're reading more into what I said than I said. I'm simply saying NFL performance is a much stronger measurement than a "potential" generated from college play. Maybe I should have spelled that out more clearly.

If anything poor performance on the NFL field supports what I said. Because of its superior worth in evaluation it can degrade or enhance the particular prospect far more than any speculation from a players college years can.

So you'd rather have 08' Cassel or 12' Palmer over a top 15 pick QB? Look at Cassel's numbers in 08' they were mediocre at best. Your whole arguement is that Cassel is more valuable then a top 15 rated draft pick (Mallett was a top 15 rated QB minus off field issues).

BTW you wouldn't have to be more clear if you used the right word like saying most instead of every.

This is where people get themselves in trouble.  Its like valuing a real estate property at a million dollars when the most anyone is willing to pay is 300,000.  

But for the sake of discussion, lets agree that he was a "top 15 value".  That was 2 years ago.  what is he now?  What does his NFL experience say he is?  It says he is a 25% completion rate passer with a 5 passer rating.  Granted those stats are meaningless.  So is his NFL career to this point.  Why would anyone have to assume that Mallett is automatically better today? 

What information does anyone have to prove that Mallett is worth some hefty price today? 

If the market is WORSE now that means his value is MORE. Get it?

Holy crap, dude. You will do anything, won't you? lol

In response to UD6's comment:

In response to RockScully's comment:

In response to UD6's comment:

In response to RockScully's comment:

In response to UD6's comment:

Babe is spot on here.  I think you other guys are experiencing wishful thinking.  On field play is about the only thing that matters.  Cassell had that which is why he was as valuable as he was. 

Granted Mallett's situation is a bit unique because his talent was projected higher than actual draft position, and because the guy in front of him is Tom Brady. 

Regardless, the guy has little on field play to prove that he is worth anything better than his draft position.  If he was a sure-fire guy, he never would have dropped to the 3rd.  I've never understood why people blind themselves to facts like this and a little logical reasoning.  Why, do you think, anyone would pay more for a player than his draft position when his play or lack thereof has provided no reason to do so?  

Further, how many first round QB's turn out to be busts or marginal players?  Plenty.  Since 2000, these QB's were 1st rd picks:

Carr, Harrington, Ramsey, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman, Losman, Campbell, Young, Leinert, Russell, Quinn, Sanchez, Tebow, Gabbert. 

Would anyone say that they performed to their draft position?  So, why now, would anyone think Mallett, without a resume would perform well beyond his?

One can argue talent all day, but talent and performance are 2 different things.  Regardless of talent, Mallett was drafted in the 3rd, and he has yet to prove that he is better than that.  Any GM worth his salt would not begin discussions with the patriots without this reality being agreed upon. 

Cassel was a 7th rd pick and then started in his 4th year.

Mallett was a 1st rd pick talent and is now entering his 3rd year.    What is it that you don't get about a 7th rd pick and a guy whose only flaw was rumored "maturity" issues which caused him to drop to the 3rd?

He gets trained by Brady, almost daily and this holds no value to a GM out there? Are you insane? 

Would you rather have Barkley, Smith or Mallett as a "rookie" QB in 2013?  It's very clear what the right answer is. Cost, talent level, projection in 2013 would all favor the choice of Mallett in that situation.

You like to side with out board Irrationals because you are a Troll so it's covenient for you to do that. When I bludgeoned you back on Page 1, this thread should have been over.

Please learn facts and realities.

No one is guaranteeing this, but it is beyond clear that this is on the table at this point a distinct possibility, final compensation not withstanding.

Matt Barkley and Geno Smith are the two worst prospects to come out in a draft in years. VERY thin QB crop.  Alex Smith costs far more than Mallett and Lombardi REALLY likes Mallett.

Note how the Trolls and our Irrationals who hate BB have all chimed in to downplay this possibility, while the educated fans here see the logic and acknwoledge the BB/Lombardi connection and it being a win/win for both.

Brady was a 6th round pick that has 2 MVP's.  What's your point? 

I don't know how much more clear I can be.  Cassel played and succeeded, Mallett hasn't so the professional book on him doesn't exist. 

Regardless of the reasons for Mallett's drop, he dropped.  Just because he hasn't shown up on a police report doesn't mean he has matured.  He is currently buried because he's behind Brady. 

As for the question regarding Barkley Smith or Mallett.  If I am Cleveland I just might continue to give Weeden a chance.  Further, the thing about Barkley and Smith is that they've played for the past 2 years.  We don't know what Mallett's done for the past 2 years do we?  Sure he's studied under Brady, but is he any good?

This has nothing to do with hating Belichick.  This has to do with negotiation.  Unfortunately, you've got this idea that the NFL exists at Belichick's pleasure. 

I may be wrong, but I remember people talking about the pats getting substantial compensation for Hoyer.  Didn't they just release him for nothing?

No we're comparing an aberration like Brady as a 6th rd pick? What's next, Unitas undrafted and cut by the Steelers? lol

My god, dude. Seek help. Your debating skills are pathetic and weak.

MIKE LOMBARDI CALLED THE PICK OF WEEDEN LAST YEAR A "PANICKED DISASTER", so how does this show them wanting to "give Weeden a chance"?

And no, he NFL doesn't "exist at Belichick's 'pleasure'", BB didn't take Mallett in 2011 by accident.  They liked his skill set and probably knew this kind of an opportunity might arise, which is why the value of Mallett means something 2 years later.

You act like there was no design with him picking Mallett. It wasn't to sit behind Brady for 6 years.

Leave it to russ to get so caught up in his own mindset that he misses the point and claims some kind of debate excellence. 

the point again - for emphasis - is that on-field play trumps potential.  Did you know that Brandon Weeden's NFL passer rating was better than Mallett's?  Brandon Weeden threw the ball 517 times last year.  Ryan Mallett threw 4. 

I agree with you that the pats had a purpose for taking Mallett, and I'd imagine that they hope to get some compensation for him.  What I don't believe however, is that he is worth the 6th pick and a mid-rounder as you suggested.  He's worth something, possibly, but I don't think he is worth even a 1st. 

So, the fact that Lomardi loves Mallett, doesn't possibly make the price higher?  How does that make sense? 

Cassel a 2nd rder in 2009 as a 7th rd pick, Kolb a 2nd rd pick, with each now out of the starting QB discussions, Sanchez a bust at pick 5 in 2009, a thin QB crop in 2013, Mallet a 1st rd option in 2011, but somehow him learning from Brady for 2 years, weakens his market value in 2013?

If I am BB, I don't trade Mallett if it's not for the switch in the 1st with the Browns.  I just wait another year to drive the price up higher.

Don't think for a second Lombardi, a guy who is on RECORD as saying the Weeden choice last year was a "panicked disaster" isn't think something along those lines.

I'd say if Lombardi wants him, then yes Mallett's value increases from possibly a 3rd rounder to something better than that, but not #6 and a mid-rounder. 

Cassel's draft position became irrelevant after he played well.  Why are you refusing to get this?  Jeff Saturday's lack of a draft position became irrelevant after he played well.  Drafts are crapshoots.  Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf - highly drafted busts.  Tom Brady, Jeff Saturday, Shannon Sharpe, low or undrafted success stories.  These are the only ones.  

IMO, draft position matters only until a player gets the opportunity to demonstrate his value ON THE FIELD. 

Finally, time does not always add value.  So if, as you say, wait another year, why do you believe that is going to help Belichick with Mallett's value?  If he doesn't play again next year, he'll still be an unknown quantity. 

Just because Aaron Rodgers was successful, doesn't mean Mallett will be.  Further, during Rodgers' 3 years as a back up his completion % was 59% in total, in his last year as a back up, however it was 71% and his passer rating was over 100.  Again, Mallett is currently 1 for 4 and a 5 passer rating. 

If a GM truly believes a QB can be a franchise QB he'll move mountains to get him. It's just a matter of which mountains and when. Caveat; whether or not Mallet is legit to dudes on the internet has no bearing on a GM's decision-making process.