Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Yaaaaaaawn.  Make all the excuses you want.  It changes nothing.  Teams are not fined and penalized for say, not cheating.
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]
    You are exactly right.  The Pats weren't fined for cheating.  They were fined for ignoring the memo that went out to all teams and continuing to shoot video from the field instead of an authorized area.  As we saw today, Goodell doesn't appreciate being ignored or lied to when he's already set the guidelines teams must abide by.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Yaaaaaaawn.  Make all the excuses you want.  It changes nothing.  Teams are not fined and penalized for say, not cheating.
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]

    They are fined all day, every day for breaking rules.  Right, Day tripper?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Gotta disagree with your take on the Commish's handling of the Pat's penalty phase. All teams were notified to refrain from the activity of WHERE to film from, and then the Pats were specifically put on  notice. yet, BB ran teh risk and made a decision to continue in the activity after His Highness distinctly told them to stop. Message sent out: You Don't Mess With The Commish When He Gives You An Order. Unfortunately, the Pats now understand the message the hard way. Too bad that the Bayou Bunglers never heeded this show of force and lied for 3 years. But, they deserve the penalties they all received. I think the Commish would have been well within his rights to have lowered the boom even further, like possibly having the league run the team for at least 1 season, seeing how they opted to lie to him for three seasons. I can't remember the first time I told my Dad that the punishment he just gave me didn't fit the infraction. Doubt if I'd be chewing food with my own teeth, or if I'd still be walking this Earth! The only opinion that really matters is that of teh folks metting out the punishment. I haven't seen anythi8ng from Indy Dogggggg yet. Either he hasn't heard the news in backwater Fly Over Country, or he's living in denial that The Rat would ever say such a thing now. First Pay-a-ton and now this.... NIT a very good offseason for him. Oh, the humanity!!!!
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

         The spygate penalty was so out of proportion with any penalty previously given, as to make it seem that the video-taping gave the Pats a strong competitive advantage...when in fact it didn't. This was just a case of BB bending a rule that had long been bent by the teams. A $250,000 fine to BB would have been sufficient to get the message across about defying the Commissioner. The stripping of a first round draft chice, and the $750,000 fine to the team was vast over-kill...and has fueled the anti_Patriots' spygate speculation to this day. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Or just cheat out in the open like the Jets did and trip another teams player as he runs up the sideline. Ryan and his whole band of idiots should have been taken down for that, just like Payton was in New Orleans. No way he did not know about that plot.
    Posted by BostonSportsFan111[/QUOTE]

    Didn't we learn that this tripping technique was learned from the pats and isn't there some evidence out there of it.  There's certainly evidence of Belichick doing a jig in order to keep Marvin Harrison from returning to the playing field after the pats intercepted a ball. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : I see, they weren't fined for not following the rules they were fined for not following the rules.  Thanks for clearing that up.  
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]
    LOL...fair enough, you got me on that one.  But the overall point I was trying to make is that everyone just makes the association of spygate with videotaping = illegal.  There's a little more context that needs to be part of the conversation, but rarely is...maybe because its easier for ESPN to gloss over certain details for ease of their telecast.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Gotta disagree with your take on the Commish's handling of the Pat's penalty phase. All teams were notified to refrain from the activity of WHERE to film from, and then the Pats were specifically put on  notice. yet, BB ran teh risk and made a decision to continue in the activity after His Highness distinctly told them to stop. Message sent out: You Don't Mess With The Commish When He Gives You An Order. Unfortunately, the Pats now understand the message the hard way. Too bad that the Bayou Bunglers never heeded this show of force and lied for 3 years. But, they deserve the penalties they all received. I think the Commish would have been well within his rights to have lowered the boom even further, like possibly having the league run the team for at least 1 season, seeing how they opted to lie to him for three seasons. I can't remember the first time I told my Dad that the punishment he just gave me didn't fit the infraction. Doubt if I'd be chewing food with my own teeth, or if I'd still be walking this Earth! The only opinion that really matters is that of teh folks metting out the punishment. I haven't seen anythi8ng from Indy Dogggggg yet. Either he hasn't heard the news in backwater Fly Over Country, or he's living in denial that The Rat would ever say such a thing now. First Pay-a-ton and now this.... NIT a very good offseason for him. Oh, the humanity!!!!
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

    No need to respond.  You summed up the facts pretty neatly in your first paragraph. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : They are fined all day, every day for breaking rules.  Right, Day tripper?
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    You might want to read AZPat's post for better understanding.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    No there is no evidence or the Jest wouldn't have been fined at least in part for making such claims.
    Last I heard, there was no rule against "jigging" on the sidelines to an out of bounds player.
    Trippin an inbound player is another issue.
    So is tanking a season.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : That doesn't count.  What BB did would have been perfectly acceptable if he had not done it.  You see, it's ok to prevent a player from getting back onto the field if that player is not a player on either team.  It just so happens that Harrison was, so there was the problem.  It wasn't actually against the rules, it was more like something that was the rules said you're not allowed to do.  See the difference?
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]
    Are we clear? 

    Crystal.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]No there is no evidence or the Jest wouldn't have been fined at least in part for making such claims. Last I heard, there was no rule against "jigging" on the sidelines to an out of bounds player. Trippin an inbound player is another issue. So is tanking a season.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    Well, of course there is evidence. 

    http://msn.foxsports.com/video/shows/nfl-on-fox?vid=51c3fe0a-c811-4bcd-af34-3ede438891ae&from=foxsports/Home/headlines

    And maybe the best part about this is once again Jimmy Johnson coming to the defense of Belichick. 

    And I don't know if there is or isn't a rule for intentionally impeding a player, in the game, from getting back in the field of play.  Regardless, its typical Belichick.  He will do ANYTHING to get an edge - even break a few rules.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : You might want to read AZPat's post for better understanding.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Breaking rules and ignoring the comish do not equate to cheating.
    Cheating would have had to show an advantage gained, which was never proven, only speculated.
    If you bring cheat notes to an exam but never use them, did you cheat?
    The tapes would have had to be used on the current test to matter.  They'd be useless in future tests as the content changes.
    Of course you would have had to go to school to know that.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate :      The spygate penalty was so out of proportion with any penalty previously given, as to make it seem that the video-taping gave the Pats a strong competitive advantage...when in fact it didn't. This was just a case of BB bending a rule that had long been bent by the teams. A $250,000 fine to BB would have been sufficient to get the message across about defying the Commissioner. The stripping of a first round draft chice, and the $750,000 fine to the team was vast over-kill...and has fueled the anti_Patriots' spygate speculation to this day. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Got to stop focusing on the deed. We can discuss and debate this all day long as to what the Commish COULD have done instead. It was the first blatant challenge to one of his directoves. A message had to be sent out, loud and clear, that you DON'T mess with the Commish. This was not about the filming, which mental midgets turned it into. It was the Patriots blatant decision to ignore the league's directive that got them the punishment they received. I have no problem with the punishment, which I said at the time, and I seriously doubt if they or any other team would dare do this again. The whole league got put on notice about this practice, and then the Pats got a personal directive. Let's assume that the Pats organization from Kraft down to the players on the prcice squad and stadium employees are reasonably mature folks. How many time do you have to be told NOT to do something before the punishment fits the offense? BB made a decision, Kraft stood by him, they both paid up and took responsibility for their activity. Don't see many Saints doing the same. 

    Bottom line is it's over. The benefits that Spygate allegedly COULD have provided to the Pats have been debunked by the singing canary himself. Now, I'm sure that you, as well as me and thousands of other Pats fans around the world, are going to hold our breath waiting for the HUGE retraction that will be coming out of ESPN, all national media outlets, and those wild and wonderful national media hores. Until then, I'm stepping outside to watch my grass grow.                         
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Breaking rules and ignoring the comish do not equate to cheating. Cheating would have had to show an advantage gained, which was never proven, only speculated. If you bring cheat notes to an exam but never use them, did you cheat? The tapes would have had to be used on the current test to matter.  They'd be useless in future tests as the content changes. Of course you would have had to go to school to know that.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheat

    To violate rules dishonestly. 

    Advantages need not be gained.  You can be caught in the act.  

    If you are caught copying off of another's test, you have been caught cheating. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : No need to respond.  You summed up the facts pretty neatly in your first paragraph. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    So, seeing that you are in agreement with the cause and effect of the incident, and that Mangini has recanted his actions and stated that there was no benefit as a result of the filming, you will never use the word or refer to "Spygate" again, especially when trying to debunk any and all Patriot successes?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    I have always had a hard time undertanding how
    Mangini was never part of explaining his role in
                      Spygate -
    Wouldn't he have had to be complicitly involved???
    Wouldn't he have to be part of the coaching staff
        that took the info and turned it into on the field calls?
    Did the commissioner talk to Mangini about this?
    Until Mangini comes out with a flat unambiguous statement
    about this - he cannot be forgiven.
    *****
    They also never talked to any other of the coaches?
    Crennel and Weiss?
    What have they said - until they make a statement
    they have done the Pats no favors either
    *****
    The Rams players say that the Pats taped their Saturday
    run through -which was the "first" time they had their game plan
    - well, that doesn't sound right to me either

    *****
    The whole thing about the Pats not winning a SB since this came out
    is just proof how some people want to drag down BB and the Pats

    Jesus - they came one dropped INT by a Pro bowl CB & a
    one in a million catch, and then another 1 in a hundred
    catch to beat the Pats in the 2 SB's
    just stupid logic on that idiocy
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : So, seeing that you are in agreement with the cause and effect of the incident, and that Mangini has recanted his actions and stated that there was no benefit as a result of the filming, you will never use the word or refer to "Spygate" again, especially when trying to debunk any and all Patriot successes?
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

    No, I don't buy the recantation.  Mangini did it.  McDaniels did it.  and they learned it from Belichick, who continued to do it until caught - not surprisingly by one of his own.   

    Now maybe these guys (mangini and mcdaniels) are both too dense to know why Belichick was doing it and just blindly chose to do it because their former boss did.  I don't buy that either.  There was a purpose, and that purpose provided some value or the act would have been discontinued. 

    That said, I'll agree that much of the penalty stemmed more from disregarding the commissioner.  It is my understanding that the pats had been put on notice previously after being outed by the packers the prior year.  I'd imagine that getting caught then had something to do with the league putting out the memo. 

    I'd imagine the commissioner's stance on matters such as these, and likely those of the saints, is to expect the perpetrators to come clean, clean up, and get back to work.  If that doesn't happen, expect the hammer.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : It's not robbery unless the thing you steal is worth something.
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]

    What did they steal?  A signal...That would have no relevance in another game. Possessions have value, not obsolete signals
    Is stealing signals illegal?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Makes one wonder that if BB wasn't such a dik to Mangini when he left if Mangini would have acted differently.  When people are up to no good, it generally comes back to bite them.
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]

    I've wondered this as well.  As Mangini has subsequently found out, however, if you want revenge there are better avenues. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheat To violate rules dishonestly.  Advantages need not be gained.  You can be caught in the act.   If you are caught copying off of another's test, you have been caught cheating. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]


    Where's the dishonesty, hiding, deception?
    Can you give me an example of cheating where there was no advantage gained?

    They weren't caught copying off anyone's test.  Were they?
    Is tanking a season considered cheating or just breaking a rule?  Was there an advantage gained?
     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : The fact that you are arguing that it's not cheating if there is no advantage is even more idiotic than the fact that you are claiming that taping the other teams signals creates no advantage.  
    Posted by JetMangione[/QUOTE]

    Says the irrelevant fan of an irrelevant team of KNOWN cheaters and losers.
    Just what are the advantages of a tape that was never removed from a camera and contained, coaches waving, the sidelines, the cheerleaders, the scoreboard and defensive formations.
    Do you think they had time to get through all that other crap, diagnose the play and relay it to the defense in 45 seconds even if they somehow removed it from the camera.?
      Signals change from game to game even half to half so what was the advantage again????

    The jest were doing it too!  Further proof that there definately was no advantage. 
    I'd say that's about 43 years of proof.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Where's the dishonesty, hiding, deception? Can you give me an example of cheating where there was no advantage gained? They weren't caught copying off anyone's test.  Were they? Is tanking a season considered cheating or just breaking a rule?  Was there an advantage gained?
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]
    There is an expecation that teams play by the rules.  Not playing by the rules is operating dishonestly.  Nowhere in the definition of cheat does it mention that an advantage must be gained.  the test comment was simply providing an example of someone caught cheating where an advantage wouldn't be gained. 

    Your comment about tanking is simply your opinion.  It is not a fact, like belichick being caught doing something against the rules.  I do not believe the colts tanked. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : Where's the dishonesty, hiding, deception? Can you give me an example of cheating where there was no advantage gained? They weren't caught copying off anyone's test.  Were they? Is tanking a season considered cheating or just breaking a rule?  Was there an advantage gained?
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

         Why are you wasting your time with this clown? Put this hapless, Peytonless troll on ignore.

         After all the times I've caught "The Dog(ggggg)" lying, misrepresenting, and twisting words here over the years, every poster should know that he has no credibility, and that no one should take him seriously.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate : There is an expecation that teams play by the rules.  Not playing by the rules is operating dishonestly.  Nowhere in the definition of cheat does it mention that an advantage must be gained.  the test comment was simply providing an example of someone caught cheating where an advantage wouldn't be gained.  Your comment about tanking is simply your opinion.  It is not a fact, like belichick being caught doing something against the rules.  I do not believe the colts tanked. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]


    It's the opinion of many and embraced by your own fans.  Why would they embrace something that wasn't true?  Did they just imbrace the implication of it?
    They still might get caught so don't be so sure.  It took them 3 years to bust the Saints.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Mangini Mea Culpa on Spygate

    This is truly a pointless exercise but I am simply tired of this idiotic notion that the Pats Super Bowl wins are somehow tainted.  The Pats have Super Bowl victories following the 2001, 2003 and 2004 seasons.  The memo that explained the rule regarding videotaping from the sidelines, which has been universally acknowledged as a widespread practice throughout the league, was sent out to each team in September 2006.  BB was fined for violating the rules as explained in that memo for an incident in 2007.

    Surely even a Jets fan will be able to read and understand a calendar.
     

Share