Mankins should fire his agent

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent : You're absolutely right here UD6.  Specifics matter. And knowing the specifics (which none of us do) is essential to making any legitimate judgment.  
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    This means you don't believe Kraft.  That's really what it means.
     
    I have never seen NE play games with All Pro players who they wanted to extend. It's never happened.  They put a price on a player and then either low ball them if they are old so they don't overpay or pay them top market value.

    They may have a cap on a player and then traded them (Samuel) due to not allocating to a certain position.

    But, you have a weak argument if you feel Mankins turning down a top market deal is an insult or not a good deal based on "specifics".  There is no way they played games with the deal.  No way.

    It's about total compensation and for some reason Mankins feeling he is by far the best Guard and deserves the biggest contract.  His rookie deal has no bearing on the negotiation either.

    He thinks it sould be on par with Evans. 

    This is the part of the discussion where either you think Mankins is worth Evans's deal or not.



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent : Why would you compare a probowl football player's compensation issues with joe blow's disability problem?  Mankins' contract issues have nothing to do with that.  Your owner is a billionaire, trying to make as much money as he can.  Is that lost on you?  How come Kraft hasn't reduced ticket prices for one-legged joe blow and his friends to $5 on the 50 yard line so that they can afford to go to games?, because he can sell them for $170 and make more money.  I don't begrudge either one of these guys their ability to make as much money as they can, and when both want their max, then they can't agree and the issues begin.   Mankins will be well paid this year, but he was supposed to be well paid last year and apparently the contract was not up to par as supposedly promised.  If the deal was 5 and 35 then the team left about 14 million on the table (7 and 49), and this doesn't even speak of the structure which may not have been up to par, either.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    The fact Kraft is a billionaire is as irrelevant as someone like you making $12/hr working as a customer service rep at a catalog company.

    It's about the market.

    Period.

    If Mankins was head and shoulders above Evans, Mankins would have a case.

    There are many, many very good/great Guards in this league. 

    There is no definitive upper-uber THE BEST.  Mankins is being offered an upper tier deal which just happens to not be higher than Evans's.

    His agent needs to prove that Mankins is the best. 

    What exactly would that contract be worth? Albert Breer from the Boston Globe takes a shot by looking at recent big deals signed by guards around the NFL, and settles on the $7-8 million per year and about $20 million guaranteed range.
     
    Tim Graham from ESPNBoston.com talks to former Green Bay VP Alan Brandt about Mankins’ contract situation and how contracts are hammered out. According to Brandt, Mankins doesn’t have a lot of leverage at the moment.

    His only leverage is pointing to what other teams have done in terms of the (Jabari) Evans deal,” Brandt said. “However, the team response — and I’ve been there — is, ‘We don’t do deals based on what other people do.’

    “His leverage is that he’s a good player they want to keep happy.”

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    Russ, you are so poor at this its embarrassing. 

    Frequently terms of done deals come out. 
    Evans 7 yr 56 million  - pd 19 in the first year and 25.7 over the first 3 years.  
    Mangold 7 yr 54 mill (+ another 3 that was due in 2010) - 7.3 pd first yr, 19 over first 2, 22 over first 3.  22 mill guaranteed against injury.  

    No structure is known of the mankins 5 and 35 offer, but in 3 years Mangold makes 63% of that entire contract and Evans makes 73%.  

    Mangold's wasn't done when Mankins started chirping, but if these guys are the basis for his contract, NE was only close on the per year amount.  Not on the total amount, and we don't know what was guaranteed or what would have been paid over 3 years. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    Poor at what? Is that code for making you look like an idiot again?

    Of course the guaranteed money is announced.  We have the luxury of seeing those two players' deals in print now because they are signed off on.

    You don't know what the back ends entail. That';s the point.

    You also are assuming and arrogantly pretending Kraft has it frontloaded with only bonuses and then is trying to sandbag Mankins to get him to take a backloaded deal?  Really?

    Your premise is this:

    "Don't trust Kraft.  They are possibly sandbagging the deal so that is why Mankins rejected it."

    My premise is this:

    "You're an idiot because there has never been an example, EVER, in the history of the Kraft regime, where they have repeatedly stated they want to keep a player in his prime, where the contract was not guaranteed up towards the front of the deal."

    Even Leigh Bodden's contract had guaranteed money up front. Bodden wasn't even drafted here. He joined the team in 2009.

    Mankins was their 1st rd pick in 2005.

    You expect us to believe Kraft signed everyone with a great deal except for Mankins?  Really, kid?

    This is where you lose. I give examples that support my premise. You don't give ANY.

    You're a phony.

    A total LOSER Phony.

    PHONY.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent : Why would you compare a probowl football player's compensation issues with joe blow's disability problem?  Mankins' contract issues have nothing to do with that.  Your owner is a billionaire, trying to make as much money as he can.  Is that lost on you?  How come Kraft hasn't reduced ticket prices for one-legged joe blow and his friends to $5 on the 50 yard line so that they can afford to go to games?, because he can sell them for $170 and make more money.  I don't begrudge either one of these guys their ability to make as much money as they can, and when both want their max, then they can't agree and the issues begin.   Mankins will be well paid this year, but he was supposed to be well paid last year and apparently the contract was not up to par as supposedly promised.  If the deal was 5 and 35 then the team left about 14 million on the table (7 and 49), and this doesn't even speak of the structure which may not have been up to par, either.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]

    Actually Mankins took himself from a massive raise at around 7 million last season, to 3.5 and then to 1.5.

    All on his own accord.

    The only person who embarrasses themselves in these debates is yourself,  as a COlts troll, because you have an agenda that has holes in it, every time.

    Every time.

    Drop the agenda and you won't be blistered off these threads.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stommmper. Show Stommmper's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent : Why would you compare a probowl football player's compensation issues with joe blow's disability problem?  Mankins' contract issues have nothing to do with that. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
    You asked a good question, I will give a good answer.
    Joe Bloww is actually more important than Mankins will ever be, the reason? If it wasnt for Jow Bloww going to football games and giving his money away to watch Mr. Mankins work on Sundays for 1 hour, then Mr. Mankins would have no 10 million dollar contract.
    Everyone works to make a living, Mankins job is Sports Entertainment. You stated there is nothing wrong with Mankins trying to get the biggest money for his job title, you are correct. But then there is nothing wrong with a cheap owner wanting to minimize his actual payroll either.
    I dont blame Kraft for wanting to make money nor do I blame Mankins. BUT, Mankins is not worth 10 million dollars for 1 season or a bunch of them. You say pro bowl as if he is a god or something, he isnt and its shameful to think how people such as yourself put such a high profile on people that play in sports over such people as Joe Bloww on the street, the only reason Mankins is going to get paid that is because people go to games and pay ridiculous money to watch.
    You call Kraft cheap, but yet without Kraft there is no Mankins. Without the Patriot paycheck Mankins is just another Joe Bloww making 12 bucks an hour. Funny how you think the guy on the street has nothing to do with Mankins, when in fact he has everything to do with him, without Joe Bloww, Mankins doesnt have a job!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent : This means you don't believe Kraft. 
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]


    I don't know who to believe until I see complete and reliable figures.  It's really that simple. 



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    I thought I read somewhere the sticking point was the guaranteed money. It wasn't enough. If you plan to pay that guy all that coin make most of it guaranteed. Its a crap shoot but if you are going to pay that much then plan on having him around the full contract. If a rookie wage scale gets put in place give him a bunch of it this year and make the rest of the contract cap friendly.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    Rusty: We'll never know the specific wording of ANY PLAYER'S contract, that's why it's irrelvant.

    Rusty:  Of course the guaranteed money is announced.  We have the luxury of seeing those two players' deals in print now because they are signed off on.

    Russ - you are the biggest tool on this board.  You are a great fan of your team so I will commend you for that, but when it comes to arguing, you are dumber than Jim Carey in Dumb and Dumber.  Either that or you are so ADHD that you cannot hold a thought for more than 30 seconds. 

    Mankins believe he was promised something that was not delivered.  If the offer was 5 and 35, then without even knowing the terms I am willing to bet Mankins was insulted.  As I noted both Mangold and Evans got bigger total deals which likely helped up their totals early in the contract so much so that if as a % of the total Mankins got the same, he'd still be significantly under those guys. 

    If you can't see that its only because you are stupid or choose not to. 

    My comment about Kraft and the Pats front office is that they are shrewd.  You may think that is an insult, but I don't see it as that.  NFL negotiations like this are high stakes poker and Mankins naively believed in something that he likely shouldn't have. 

    Again, I'll bet Brady's tantrum is what caused Mankins not to get paid.  There are only so many players you can pay at one time.  Brady's contract wasn't up until after 2010 season like Manning (I think I said 2011 which would have been wrong).  The point is he had time on his deal but didn't want to wait.  Mankins waited.  Wilfork waited.  Can't make Brady wait.  So Mankins got set to the side and they paid the other two. 

    Its quite possible that Kraft did not anticipate Brady's demands and was caught.  Correctly, he did the deal for the more important player, but Mankins was left hanging as a result, imo. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent : You asked a good question, I will give a good answer. Joe Bloww is actually more important than Mankins will ever be, the reason? If it wasnt for Jow Bloww going to football games and giving his money away to watch Mr. Mankins work on Sundays for 1 hour, then Mr. Mankins would have no 10 million dollar contract.
    I'll agree with this but only to an extent.  Lets assume that in a game, a team pulls in 12 million from gate receipts and concessions.  Over 10 games that is 120 million and doesn't consider expenses.  If the TV contracts is 8 billion a year, that is 250 million per team without expenses.  The paying public is incredibly important but only as it relates to the ability to continue getting the big tv contracts. 

    Everyone works to make a living, Mankins job is Sports Entertainment. You stated there is nothing wrong with Mankins trying to get the biggest money for his job title, you are correct. But then there is nothing wrong with a cheap owner wanting to minimize his actual payroll either. I dont blame Kraft for wanting to make money nor do I blame Mankins.
    And I think I said this as well by suggesting that Kraft on the other side of table negotiates from trying to maximize his income. 

    BUT, Mankins is not worth 10 million dollars for 1 season or a bunch of them.
    You and I will have to agree to disagree on this.  People are worth what they can be paid.  It is part of what has fueled this country.  I don't care for greed per se, but when one attempts to be reasonable with their demands, the counter party benefits greatly.  I wish we could live in a society where everyone agrees that everyone is deserved their profit, but it doesn't work that way.  Some people do sh*tty jobs at what they do and would be better off not doing it at all, and those that do a great job shouldn't have to suffer just because the guy who does a crappy job is supposed get his, too. 

    You say pro bowl as if he is a god or something, he isnt and its shameful to think how people such as yourself put such a high profile on people that play in sports over such people as Joe Bloww on the street, the only reason Mankins is going to get paid that is because people go to games and pay ridiculous money to watch.
    My comments have nothing to do with thinking mankins is a god or anything else.  His probowl designations are simply part of what defines him as being at the top of his profession at his position which then is used to negotiate his contract.  

    You call Kraft cheap,
    Did I call him cheap?  I don't think that.  I think he tries to get the most for the least. 


    but yet without Kraft there is no Mankins. Without the Patriot paycheck Mankins is just another Joe Bloww making 12 bucks an hour.
    Wrong.  1st your comment suggests that without Kraft there is no football.  Football and the NFL was around long before Kraft owned a team and if he wasn't here then Mankins would be playing somewhere else.  And he wouldn't be just another joe blow. 

    Funny how you think the guy on the street has nothing to do with Mankins, when in fact he has everything to do with him, without Joe Bloww, Mankins doesnt have a job!
    Clarifying, without millions of us Joe Blows, Mankins would have a different job. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stommmper. Show Stommmper's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent : [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Mankins should fire his agent : You asked a good question, I will give a good answer. Joe Bloww is actually more important than Mankins will ever be, the reason? If it wasnt for Jow Bloww going to football games and giving his money away to watch Mr. Mankins work on Sundays for 1 hour, then Mr. Mankins would have no 10 million dollar contract. I'll agree with this but only to an extent.  Lets assume that in a game, a team pulls in 12 million from gate receipts and concessions.  Over 10 games that is 120 million and doesn't consider expenses.  If the TV contracts is 8 billion a year, that is 250 million per team without expenses.  The paying public is incredibly important but only as it relates to the ability to continue getting the big tv contracts.  Everyone works to make a living, Mankins job is Sports Entertainment. You stated there is nothing wrong with Mankins trying to get the biggest money for his job title, you are correct. But then there is nothing wrong with a cheap owner wanting to minimize his actual payroll either. I dont blame Kraft for wanting to make money nor do I blame Mankins. And I think I said this as well by suggesting that Kraft on the other side of table negotiates from trying to maximize his income.  BUT, Mankins is not worth 10 million dollars for 1 season or a bunch of them. You and I will have to agree to disagree on this.  People are worth what they can be paid.  It is part of what has fueled this country.  I don't care for greed per se, but when one attempts to be reasonable with their demands, the counter party benefits greatly.  I wish we could live in a society where everyone agrees that everyone is deserved their profit, but it doesn't work that way.  Some people do sh*tty jobs at what they do and would be better off not doing it at all, and those that do a great job shouldn't have to suffer just because the guy who does a crappy job is supposed get his, too.  You say pro bowl as if he is a god or something, he isnt and its shameful to think how people such as yourself put such a high profile on people that play in sports over such people as Joe Bloww on the street, the only reason Mankins is going to get paid that is because people go to games and pay ridiculous money to watch. My comments have nothing to do with thinking mankins is a god or anything else.  His probowl designations are simply part of what defines him as being at the top of his profession at his position which then is used to negotiate his contract.   You call Kraft cheap, Did I call him cheap?  I don't think that.  I think he tries to get the most for the least.  but yet without Kraft there is no Mankins. Without the Patriot paycheck Mankins is just another Joe Bloww making 12 bucks an hour. Wrong.  1st your comment suggests that without Kraft there is no football.  Football and the NFL was around long before Kraft owned a team and if he wasn't here then Mankins would be playing somewhere else.  And he wouldn't be just another joe blow.  Funny how you think the guy on the street has nothing to do with Mankins, when in fact he has everything to do with him, without Joe Bloww, Mankins doesnt have a job! Clarifying, without millions of us Joe Blows, Mankins would have a different job. 
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]
    All good responses UD6.. I give you credit for that!  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: Mankins should fire his agent

    Nice to read the banter :) always interesting to read both sides of a good debate.

    What I understood from last year is that the offer was similar to Jabari and Mangold, but the payout was not in the first year.

    It was the tender offer in 2010 and some garanteed money and then more coming at the end of the contract.

    Mankins and Bauer wanted more upfront money as was 'proposed' to them as it was an uncapped year and that is where the insult came from.

    Bauer's recent comment only solidfy's that view.

    And yes he should be fired, because his verbal attack after all the silence since Mankins returns only brings up media and fan speculation and is not in the best interest of the team to be pressured into a contract negotiation.

    What if BB was already prepared to give him what he wanted and then Bauer does this?

    Also Mankins sat out and reduced his earnings. He can do the same thing again and make 3 times more than last year...

    Get Wisnieski or Moffit and and an OT and we are good to go for another year with or without Mankins
     

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